Questions

[Cat]

Is there any research out there on homeschoolers? I'm leaning towards that option but I'd like to look at any info out there first.

Can someone give me some nuts and bolts advice on how to get started? How do you homeschool? What's your day like? At this point, my daughter would be in like pre-k I guess, so clearly I'm not going to lecture at her. Do you use computer programs? Games? Are there tests to see how well the kids are doing?

[demonique]

I don't homeschool for one reason: I don't yet have kids! ;-) I hope to be able to homeschool my kids when I have them.

There is /loads/ of good information out there on the internet - and there is no one 'right' way to do it. There are all sorts of homeschooling styles, from mimicking school at home (complete with roll call and homework and fifty minute class periods) to unschooling (which is completely unstructured), and everything in between. You can buy expensive curriculum, or use library books and the internet, or specialized tutors (Grandma can maybe teach handwriting, Uncle Ben the history buff can teach history, your neighbor the pianist could teach music...)

Google homeschooling for a load of links, and just start pouring through it. :)

[Ceres]

Demonique is right - there is as many ways to homeschool as there are children.

We unschool, which isnt COMPLETELY unstructured, but does leave the children to decide what they want to learn and when. For us what works is having a basic weekly plan. Mondays are home days. I catch up on housework and cooking from the weekend and the kids usually lay low and play quietly or read. Tuesdays are library days so we all go to the library where we pick up non fiction books on everyone's interests, I get some fiction for everyone from recommended lists that correspond to their interests and they all learn library ettiquette. Wednesdays my daughter works for free at her riding school, training one of the colts there, cleaning stalls, washing and grooming horses and my younger kids grocery shop with me. Grocery shopping is one of the most educational shopping experiences, if you include the kids in on what you are doing and thinking while you shop. They learn math, economizing, menu planning, nutrition, science, its amaing how much they can learn there! Thursdays are free days where we usually stay home and devote the day to projects that cant be done on the fly. Right now my daughter and I are sewing her a gown for halloween, my older son builds with his legos or k'nex and my younger son has been on a drawing/writing letters and numbers binge. Fridays I clean in the morning and everyone has their jobs to help. In the afternoon we swim at the indoor pool.

Every day I read aloud for more than an hour. I read chapter books, (we just did the Narnia series) and then we discuss things that happened in the story and what the author meant by the story and such. I also read non fiction to them - whatever interests them. Usually what interests one kid will attract the interest of the other two as well. Sometimes I pick up a book that interests me, like say, famous crimes in history or the fibbonacci code or the diamond industry in Canada and I will pick it up and start reading. More often than not they come join me to read it. I also read them tidbits I catch on the internet that relate to their interests.

We go on nature walks in the woods at least every two weeks. On the weekends we usually do at least one educational event, such as battle re-enactments or a trip to the honey farm. This weekend is our first Samhain circle with a group.

We dont do a whole lot of academic sit down work. My oldest who is 12 does math a few times a week, of her own volition. She does not like me to teach her - she prefers to figure out how to do it herself from the instructions and does very well at this. She does her grade level just fine despite my never having made her sit down and do math workbooks in her earlier years. She taught herself to read as well, refusing my help. She was nearly eight before she started to teach herself to read, but she went straight from basics books to learn right to novels. Now she reads constantly, both to herself and aloud to us very well. I have a hard time keeping up with her, making sure she has enough to read.

My almost ten year old son has just started reading. With him the proccess was less obvious. It seemed to me that he was hardly reading anything six months ago and I was always helping him along, bit by bit, taking every opportunity to teach, with much resistance. Then suddenly, it seemed to click for him. He isnt reading novels yet, but I am certain it will come when he gets tired of waiting for me to finish a book aloud that he is into.

Cat, to answer your other questions, there is a lot of research available on homeschooling; It depends what you want to know. You can test if you choose, but what does testing really tell you? When you are this closely involved in your child's education, you dont need to test to see what they know and what grade level they are at is pretty irrevelant. I dont use a lot of computer work for teaching because to me thats a lot like workbook pages or games which are very limited methods. I consider this kind of learning a bit of an insult to intelligence. When I want to learn about something, I certainly dont try to find fill in the blank and matching pages to teach me. I read about it! As for getting started, you probably already have, long since. If helped your daughter learn to talk, walk, explore her world, you have been unschooling her all along.

[Faol-chù]

Is there any research out there on homeschoolers? I'm leaning towards that option but I'd like to look at any info out there first.

Can someone give me some nuts and bolts advice on how to get started? How do you homeschool? What's your day like? At this point, my daughter would be in like pre-k I guess, so clearly I'm not going to lecture at her. Do you use computer programs? Games? Are there tests to see how well the kids are doing?


I can't help you with the 'research'...There are nearly as many different ways to homeschool as there are homeschooling families!

At your daughter's age, I'd likely start by just reading to her...a lot. At some point, deliberately read things to her that are extremely simple, and put your finger under the word you are saying. Particularly if it is a book that you own, and after you have repeated it enough times, she may start to read it on her own. You can also start just making it a point to USE numbers...maybe eventually asking her how many of something there is.

When you say "computer programs", are you talking about game programs, or curriculum programs? I use neither, but I *do* know people who have their entire math and english (and other) programs on computer. As far as the games go...I used to buy them, but have since stopped. I found they were quite expensive, and comparatively short-lived, as far as teaching 'new' material. One of the good things about them, or so I thought, was that I could leave my child with them...But I found out that wasn't so...Because of the way most of them work, the child can theoretically end up guessing the answers, and so they never really learn anything. Also, my son has a natural affinity for the computer, and his mind will stay locked there for hours after he's done playing. He becomes frustrated because the 'real world' does not work the way the games do (push a button and this character does what you want him to), and he becomes miserable and difficult to live with. (His x-box game time is limited to 1 hour a week, as a result...and that can be taken away if he does not behave.)

Games, particularly mental games, board games (monopoly is great for math, scrabble is great for spelling!), and games that require you to make something are a wonderful way to learn! Projects and experiments are another!

Yes, there are tests...Our state requires that we turn in test scores at the end of every year, as a matter of fact. One test is the CAT (California Achievement Test), and another on is the Iowa Test. There are probably about a kajillion other tests, in addition.

My children are 12 and 8. We do math and english nearly every morning. When my daughter was younger, I did more 'unschooling'. As my son as become older, though, I have found that he innately craves more predictable structure...and so I have felt a need to oblige. He is a miserable child when he does not get that structure, and he makes everyone else around him miserable by proxy!

I concentrated mostly on reading writing and arithmetic in the early years...though I still read to them and encouraged them to read short history books(usually in the form of biographies), science, and the like.

Now, I get larger, more complicated history books, and read to them. (We are currently reading about the vikings!) We all sit down together, we get our atlases and we discuss what we are reading.

I, myself, have been learning Scottish Gaelic for 5 years now. I have reached a point where I feel comfortable enough teaching them beginning Gaelic as part of our weekly class schedule.

In lieu of 'Science', myself and another mother have formed a 'nature club'. It's really just starting to take off...But, among other things, we take our field guides out into the woods, and see what we can identify. We will also hopefully be going on such field trips as herb walks, and perhaps a field trip to an organic farm. I think we are going to have a man next time who excavates for and sells rocks, minerals, and some fossils to come out and talk to the kids.

Anyway, those are are my thoughts...:)

I will say that a child can learn a lot more in a very short period of time in a homeschooling situation, just because you KNOW where your child is as far as their understanding. If you've been paying close attention, you become aware of HOW your child learns best, and you can taylor your 'teaching' style to his or her learning style.

Happy decision making!!

[Faol-chù]

Cat, to answer your other questions, there is a lot of research available on homeschooling; It depends what you want to know. You can test if you choose, but what does testing really tell you? When you are this closely involved in your child's education, you dont need to test to see what they know and what grade level they are at is pretty irrevelant.

I will say that there is a way (based on my experience) that a test can be helpful.

My husband, as the parent who is NOT doing the bulk of the educating (because he is at at paying job), has been very nervous about the whole thing. He was NOT confident that we could educate our children as well as some trained 'teacher' and/or 'authority' on some topic. Particularly when we were doing more unschooling, and there was little in writing to see, he felt very much in the dark. The tests (mandatory in our state) proved to him that our daughter was 'keeping up'.
I have to say that while I don't necessary LIKE to measure one kid against another, it has been very interesting to see where my kids are, as compared with others their age who have taken the same test.

Le meas,

[Cat]

Thank you!!

I don't have time at the moment to read your replies thoroughly, but I did glance through and Faol-Chu has it right about the tests. Parents are often mistaken about their children. I want something concrete to show me how what I do measures up against what the other kids are getting. If there is a problem evident, it means I need to make some changes in how I teach, and if that still doesn't work it might mean its time for a more traditional school. Also, my dh is very iffy about hsing. I wan t to be able to show him that its working.

[Ceres]

I debated whether or not to answer this, because there are so many different ways to homeschool and I dont want to imply my way is the only way. I realize, reading your post that we are approaching the whole idea of education in two very different ways.

I also feel I have to clarify, I have already thought of all those things about testing. I dont choose not to out of ignorance as to its uses. One reason I dont test is that I dont want to measure my kids against other children. I dont really feel that would prove any more than that those children learned different things and learned to regurgitate it on a test paper efficiently. I also feel that it doesnt reflect the true nature of education, which is not about trying to put as much facts and figures and knowledge into my kids' brains as possible before super saturation occurs. :)

To me education is really about facilitating and then watching their understanding of the world unfold. George Bernard Shaw said something along the lines of education being about the child persuing knowledge, not that teacher persuing the child and forcing the knowledge upon them. I think thats what testing would lead to. Sure, they would learn some extra things, aside from they have already learned, but the damage done to way they see their own intelligence and their own ability to easily learn what interests them would definitely not compensate for that.

I also choose not to test because a test is merely a measurement of what the child has been exposed to. What is being taught in schools is rather arbitrary. The knowledge available out there is HUGE and what can be learned by any one person would fill a thimble. Just because the schools choose to teach part of a subject (say Australia in geography)doesnt mean it better than another part of that subject(say Africa in geography) that might be overlooked by the school, but that we covered in detail.

I understand about wanting your husband to see that hsing is working. There were a few difficult years where my husband was concerned about how little concrete stuff was going on, but of course, I am rewarded now that he can see not only how we did as well as public school, but that what we did was better for our kids. He is very appreciative now of my determination then to do it my way. At the time, I consoled him by talking with him about the things I was researching into child development, child psychology, and how the unschooling movement worked. He was very impressed by the end results with children who had been raised this way.

I guess part of it is that I am not in the school mentality. I dont think public schools are good places to learn to think. I dont consider what the schools teach to be the things that are best for my kids, nor do I feel they teach things in a manner timely or relevant to the way kids think. In other words, I tend to think if the schools are doing it differently than I am, they are wrong, not me.

The bottom line is that I am looking after the best interests of MY kids and they are not.

[Faol-chù]

Thank you!!

I don't have time at the moment to read your replies thoroughly, but I did glance through and Faol-Chu has it right about the tests. Parents are often mistaken about their children.

Make no mistake...if YOU are homeschooling your child, you will know how quickly he or she is 'getting' what you are teaching.

There are all sorts of scope/sequence materials that will help to guide you as to what ('averagely-speaking') 'most' kids are CAPABLE of 'getting' at a particular age. You, yourself, will need no test to tell you whether or not they understand the material you are presenting, because you will be getting immediate feedback from them. A 'third' party, however, (such as a spouse who is not able to sit down with them in that way) may not.

All that tests really tell you, after all is said and done, is how well your child can take a test. Now, the ability to take a test, IMHO, is not a bad thing, as eventually they will be taking plenty of them, should they opt for college...However, the ability to take a test does not necessarily denote knowledge on a topic, as a bright child, even if they do not understand the material, can often 'fake it' on the test sucessfully. For that matter, it is quite often that children who DO know the material may not do well in a test situation.

In addition, there are always questions on tests that can be construed a couple of different ways, with a couple of 'correct' answers, depending on interpretation. There is, of course, though, according to the scorers of the test, only ONE correct answer... (An example I remember from a test my daughter took when she was in the 2nd grade is the word "corn" with a picture of 'maize' and a picture of what looked to me to be 'wheat', along with a couple of others. Obviously, being in the US, they wanted the picture of 'maize'....but the picture of 'wheat' would have, technically, be correct, also. Of course, I used these as learning experiences for my kids, because I pointed out to them that sometimes, they have to kind of figure out what "right answer" the testers are looking for.

I can say that, if it had been up to me, I would not have been testing my kids...particularly in the earliest years. I don't mind it so much as my kids get older, because I know that, eventually, they will need to know how to take a test.


I want something concrete to show me how what I do measures up against what the other kids are getting. If there is a problem evident, it means I need to make some changes in how I teach, and if that still doesn't work it might mean its time for a more traditional school. Also, my dh is very iffy about hsing. I wan t to be able to show him that its working.

In your position, I can understand why you feel you would need the test...Although YOU WILL KNOW if your kids aren't picking up what you're giving them--immediately.

Le meas,

Faol-chù

[Faol-chù]

I do want to add one thing to other things I've said in this thread...

I mentioned scope/sequence materials...

In my first year of homeschooling my oldest (then in the 2nd grade), I made the mistake of reading the scope/sequence materials and finding that one of the things she should know is how to tell time. Well, I 'set out' to teach her that...and it was a disaster...

Try as she might, she just couldn't get it...I would lead her to the correct answer, think she understood, ask her the very SAME question again, and she'd get it wrong...
The frustration was awful, on both sides...

I put it down for a while...I think it was 2 or 3 months. I did not even broach the subject of telling time at all.

Then one day, I picked it up, explained it to her briefly, and lo and behold!!, she understood it!

It is a truism that sometimes, there are some things you are going to run across that your child is JUST NOT READY to learn. Perhaps its immaturity...(probably)...
But the beautiful thing about homeschooling is that YOU CAN COME BACK TO IT LATER...

Don't fall into the trap of paying more attention to the materials they are "supposed" to be learning than your child...

Just a word of caution...:)

Le meas,

[Cat]

Radikal--Unschooling sounds very attractive, but I know myself well enough to know it would not work for me. I seem to need more structure in order to accomplish things. However I am very grateful to you for describing what you do and how it works, because I wouldn't have known that otherwise. I asked to hear about what you think and do, and I am grateful to you for replying. Yes, we differ on some stuff, but your opinions make me think about my own in new ways, and that's a very good thing.

Faol-chu--I ran across a hs option that, at the pre-k level, used online games to teach. My daughter loves the online games we let her play and has learned from them, plus I like that she learns some computer skills. So I was wondering how that format has worked for others. Your point about confusing the virtual world with the real world is a good one, though.

In my former career, I ran across many parents who were pretty clueless about their kids. While I hope and believe that I'd know if my kid weren't learning, I don't underestimate the ability of people to delude themselves if they are motivated enough.

What are scope/sequence materials?

[lynn271]

I mentioned scope/sequence materials...

In my first year of homeschooling my oldest (then in the 2nd grade), I made the mistake of reading the scope/sequence materials and finding that one of the things she should know is how to tell time. Well, I 'set out' to teach her that...and it was a disaster...

...

Then one day, I picked it up, explained it to her briefly, and lo and behold!!, she understood it!

It is a truism that sometimes, there are some things you are going to run across that your child is JUST NOT READY to learn. Perhaps its immaturity...(probably)...

I've had the exact same experience with my child with several different skills. it's almost like a switch turns on in their heads.


But the beautiful thing about homeschooling is that YOU CAN COME BACK TO IT LATER...

Don't fall into the trap of paying more attention to the materials they are "supposed" to be learning than your child...

Just a word of caution...:)

Le meas,

I agree completely.

One of the reasons we DON'T have them in school is so they don't have to follow a one-size-fits-all "schedule" that utterly ignores their individual strenghs, weaknesses, "readiness" and interests.

[Cat]

Okay, but what are they?? I'm so confused.

[Faol-chù]

Okay, but what are they?? I'm so confused.

You mean scope-sequence materials?

Scope-sequence materials (or lists) are some 'expert's' idea of what a child should be learning in what grade (and in what particular order).

Here is an example of a scope-sequence list for 2nd grade language arts:

http://www.time4learning.com/scope-sequence/2nd-language-arts.shtml

http://www.time4learning.com/scope-sequence/2nd-math.shtml

There are a kajillion different lists...most of which have a lot in common, but some are vaguely different from others.

My particular state has what is called 'Standards of Learning' (SOL's) that the school board mandates what they should be teaching in the schools...And they test on these (SOL TESTS). I use that as a very rough guide...But the truth of the matter is that the schools spend a lot of time going back over the same things and 'adding on' to them from year to year, rather than waiting until the child will actually have an UNDERSTANDING of it, and teaching it all at one time so that it will stick....I suppose that might be necessary when trying to teach to a large group...But it is not ideal AT ALL for an individual child. It turns out to be a lot of 'busy work' that will be forgotton as soon as the child is done with the paper they are doing. (This is very much related to Radikalwomyn's comment about 'worksheets' being insulting to a child's intellegence.)

Happy decision making!

[LeBoof]

We've been going through the prk program with Goddess Moon Circles Academy and my son loves it. It's based on the Montessori method mostly,and is very flexible the way they have it laid out. I tend to need some structure in order to get anything done. My son needs a little too since he constantly wants to be doing SOMETHING. It can drive me nuts trying to find new things for him to do all the time otherwise.Even with the Moon Circles curriculum I still end up adding to it, but it gives me a good framework to start from. I knew a little bit about homeschooling from when my sister lived with my husband and myself. She went through internethomeschool.com and it was ok, but a little too structured for me in some ways. She had to meet the teacher online at the same time everyday and we had to set aside time blocks for her school. That's ok, unless your own schedule is screwy due to work or medical or something.

When I started looking around to see what had changed in the last few years in between homeschooling her and starting into it with my son I was surprised at how much I'd missed the first time around. There's also a lot of new resources out there. If they're still offering it they were offering a free class for homeschooling parents at Barnes and Noble .com online university. It helped me to get some of the recent facts and statstics as well as resources I could use. This really helped convice my mother in law that homeschooling was a good idea for our son. Well, that and my sister will be graduating with her degree in music education in about a year :) She'll be specializing in offering private instruction to homeschoolers and tutoring for highschool/jr high students.You might also be able to find some information on homeschooling approahes and such at http://www.homeschoollearning.com/approaches

For prek I've found a few things that we use as resources all the time. The Reader Rabbit software is FANTASTIC. My son can't get enough of it (which is why we use it as a reward for getting chores and other schoolwork done). The Leapfrog system is also really good. They also have some stuff on their website that does not depend on you buying the toys. There are also a couple of other sites that have some really good stuff available for kids that are educational as well as fun.

http://www.enchantedlearning.com

http://www.childfun.com

http://www.first-school.ws/

I know there's a lot of information out there. I'm still learning about all the new (and some of the old) information available. Soon now we're going to have to start looking more at kindergarten and first grade. Time is flying by too fast.
Mel

[Cat]

Thanks Mel!

Yes, I need structure too. Its too easy for me to do nothing.

The homeschoollearning.com seems to be a paid site. Did you find them to be worth the price? Can you tell me more about Goddess Moon Circles? I was wondering about them, and I'd love ot hear your experience.

I'm using Starfall right now, which is free and works on phonics pre-reading skills, but they have different levels so I think there is stuff there for readers too. I like it and so does my daughter.

[TseMoana]

www.learningpage.com has some really cool stuff.

They offer complete packages in a couple of topical units (oceans, dinosaurs, zoo animals, reptiles & amphibians, insects & spiders & space) containing lesson plans, work sheets and related activities and all for free. You need to register to access it (free) but it's worth it.

Makes me want to find kids someplace to use it with :)

[LeBoof]

Thanks Mel!

Yes, I need structure too. Its too easy for me to do nothing.

The homeschoollearning.com seems to be a paid site. Did you find them to be worth the price? Can you tell me more about Goddess Moon Circles? I was wondering about them, and I'd love ot hear your experience.

I'm using Starfall right now, which is free and works on phonics pre-reading skills, but they have different levels so I think there is stuff there for readers too. I like it and so does my daughter.

homeschoollearning.com is a paid site, but if you're just after information in general on homeschooling you can find that for free here. Just go to homeschoolinglearning.com/approaches and you'll see a list of the different educational types. On the homepage there is a list of free stuff they offer. Click on some of that. That is definitely worth it.

Actually, I think you could probably use Starfall and Goddess Moon Circles together. For prek- most of the elementary grades it costs about $200 a year(pays for access to teacher, help with school systems if needed and record keeping) for the curriculum for the full version. It's less if you just want the basic version. The only difference is that the full version has extracurricular stuff added in like music, art,etc. The standard version follows the national guidelines. You can talk with a teacher via email if you have questions, but it's pretty self explanatory and has lots of fun ideas. The elementary grades are based on the Montessori method. The way that a week usually works at the prek level is that you have set days where things are suggested for each day. My son has days where he does half the week in one day and other days where he skips them so we can go do errands or field trips though. It's very flexible. At the end of the week we email an outline of what was done during the week, what we may still be working on and any questions or problems/comments. It gives me more incentive to actually get stuff done (which I really need :) I will say one thing though. If your child is already at the stage where they are starting to really read and they know their colors and numbers pretty well, you'd probably do better to go with the kindergarten version. I have my own reasons for using the prek stuff, but I think a lot of kids would have no problem with going to the kindergarten curriculum even at age 4.

Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions :)

Mel

[Iseult]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/ has a lot of fun stuff on for younger kids (my sister loves it), and it's a very child-friendly site, and for older kids, http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbbc/ is rather nice. They're both run by the BBC, so they're free and don't have adverts that children can accidentally click on.

[fahawk]

I think that is why "homeschool " is unique and can work for so many types of families..because it can fit 'your' lifestyle/ family...

For us, we use lessons....have math, writing, science, history...but I have learned !! we DONT always get to the lessons everyday... some days are more structured for us ..and others not. For instance one day we went for a lovely walk through the woods..but that led to a discussion about migration...and about recycling, using recycled products..etc...so any place / any day can be a learning exp.

I know families that are in homeschool groups, who get together to do lessons..or have someone "teach" a subject..say math,science...or spanish

Others who are MORE unstructured, and others who go by a more lesson -type plan..


Often I think it is the "family" and lifestyle that leads to a way of learning..that is individual for each- and works for them.

[Cat]

I just signed up at learning pages. They look like they could provide some good supplementary stuff.

My daughter doesn't read at all, though she knows her alphabet unless someone uses funky fonts. Colors, shapes and numbers too.

Goddessmooncircles sounds really great for elementary school. A friend of mine who used to teach pre-k also found some recources for me that she really recommends--including one that comes with craft supplies for all those awful projects (my daughter loves all that--argh). It's here: http://preschool-program.com/

They looked very good, from what little I can tell off a website.

cbeebies looks cute, I'll see if its a hit.

fahawk--agreed. I'm still figuring out what my 'style' is. I'm pretty eclectic, so its a matter of learning by doing and adjusting as I go--and not giving up if I screw up.