Ethics

[Mishka]

I am a back-slidden Christian for over 3 years now. But I find I still have some christianese pop into my brain now and again and have to go back and forth on logic.

I remember all the Bible studying and formal moral teachings (books, etc) that my "Sisters" taught their children. Most everything I have found on morals is christian-based.

I know I am the best teacher of morals, but let's face it, I'm not perfect. Do you do any coloring pages, books, etc with your children? I've done Berenstein Bears, etc, but my 9 year old is out of that now. What's the next step? How do you do it without preaching? (I sound preachy, and I don't like hearing myself any more than my kids like it. "blah blah blah wrong. blah blah blah should., etc)

[Ceres]

I try to assume the best intention when correcting behavior. Like if my kids arent sharing something they have, I would say something like "Oh, I guess you didnt notice the other girl really wanted to play with your toy". They dont feel lectured or attacked, yet you get across the appropriate behavior and convey your belief that your kids will do the right thing if they can see what that is.

I really recommend the book "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Elaine mazlish and Adele Faber. Its a very practical how to book for teaching parents how to respond to their kids so the kids feel understood, but it also teaches kids to be empathetic to others, which is what ethics boils down to.

[Mishka]

If it's helped you than I'll take a look. Those books often frighten me off by making me feel stupid and a bad parent. Obviously they're trying to help. So let me get over myself and I'll check it out.

Thank you.

[Faol-chù]

I know I am the best teacher of morals, but let's face it, I'm not perfect. Do you do any coloring pages, books, etc with your children? I've done Berenstein Bears, etc, but my 9 year old is out of that now. What's the next step? How do you do it without preaching? (I sound preachy, and I don't like hearing myself any more than my kids like it. "blah blah blah wrong. blah blah blah should., etc)

I've never really chosen literature specifically to teach ethics...There have been things we have read in which the ethics were horrible, and we just discussed it.

The main things we have strived to teach are, firstly, to treat others how you want to be treated...

I know, I know...It's based in Christianity...But I think it's a good rule of thumb, and apparent in other religions and cultures, too.

Also, just basically, to be 'honorable'. All you can do is the best you can do.

We are very clear on what is a lie.

At this moment, my 8 y/o son is going through a stage where he tends to try to blame others for things he is opting to do...Like say somebody else 'told' him to do it, and that he was 'afraid' of them. Though there may have been truth to the fact that the kid told him to do it, and that he was somewhat afraid of him, that is NOT an acceptable excuse, IMHO. (The kid is less than a year older than him!) Unfortunately, we are also having to teach him how to fight, and that it is OK to punch someone in the nose if they start shoving him around...
I hate that lesson, but, well, I think it is necessary.:(

Le meas,

[Cat]

One thing I do for ethics is to talk about consequences..NOT punishments, but real world consequences. For instance, if my kid isn't sharing I will point out that the other kid is sad or angry that they aren't getting a turn. I have a zero-tolerance policy for unprovoked aggression, if my kids hits or pushes another kid unprovoked we leave wherever we are immediately (usually this happens in the park). I have some basic rules of courtesy, and I simply iterate them when they come up.

[ladyalpha]

At this moment, my 8 y/o son is going through a stage where he tends to try to blame others for things he is opting to do...Like say somebody else 'told' him to do it, and that he was 'afraid' of them. Though there may have been truth to the fact that the kid told him to do it, and that he was somewhat afraid of him, that is NOT an acceptable excuse, IMHO. (The kid is less than a year older than him!) Unfortunately, we are also having to teach him how to fight, and that it is OK to punch someone in the nose if they start shoving him around...
I hate that lesson, but, well, I think it is necessary.:(

Le meas,[/QUOTE]

I just wanted to let you know that your not the only one in this "boat". My soon to be 8 year old daughter is also in this stage. After you get through the start, then restart, of the story (always have to know every single person that was present) it usually comes down to "I didn't really want to do this but.." (But, my oldest also did this, so I believe it is a stage that kids go through).
And unfortunally we have also had to teach our daughters that it is perfectly acceptable to defend themselves even if violence is necessary. With them in public school right now they have had to learn how to do it, because for whatever reason the school just can't seem to protect them. Thankfully, my oldest has only had to hit one boy and it seems to have gotten around that she will protect herself. My other daughter is not a fighter though, and I hate to change that about her. However, it seems that the other kids take advantage of that personality trait of hers.

Anyway, I'm rambling. lol I have always taught my girls (and will also work on it with my son as he gets to the point of grasping the concept) that they should be proud of every choice they make. Before they do something they should think to themselves "can I stand in front of mom or dad and proudly say I have done this". If they can't, then they know in their heart that what they are doing is wrong.
It is an on going lesson as I believe all things in parenting is on going. Kids mess up, they are only human, but I believe they should be taught to be proud of the things they do. And should be taught to not only think of how others feel by putting themselves in the other persons shoes, but also to listen to their own voice that tells them when something is wrong.
This does take a lot of consistancy and a lot of praise when the child comes to you and is honest. If they need to have some kind of punishment, I always make sure to tell them that I am proud of them for telling me, and that they know they are being disciplined for the act..not for telling me. That way it keeps the line of communication open (I hope. lol).

Oh, I also wanted to say, don't throw out all your beliefs and lessons just because they come from a religion you are no longer a member of. If a lesson is right to you use it. Your child(ren) will always know when something is important to you and if you actually stand by what your telling them.

[Exloration_La]

I've never really chosen literature specifically to teach ethics...There have been things we have read in which the ethics were horrible, and we just discussed it.

The main things we have strived to teach are, firstly, to treat others how you want to be treated...

I know, I know...It's based in Christianity...But I think it's a good rule of thumb, and apparent in other religions and cultures, too.

Also, just basically, to be 'honorable'. All you can do is the best you can do.

We are very clear on what is a lie.

At this moment, my 8 y/o son is going through a stage where he tends to try to blame others for things he is opting to do...Like say somebody else 'told' him to do it, and that he was 'afraid' of them. Though there may have been truth to the fact that the kid told him to do it, and that he was somewhat afraid of him, that is NOT an acceptable excuse, IMHO. (The kid is less than a year older than him!) Unfortunately, we are also having to teach him how to fight, and that it is OK to punch someone in the nose if they start shoving him around...
I hate that lesson, but, well, I think it is necessary.:(

Le meas,

A good thing to look up is there is much overwhelming evidence from what I have seen that shows Christianity has borrowed much of it’s doctrine, and allot is not really original to Christianity, so you got to be careful before saying something is “based” in Christianity I think.

As far as the golden rule there are many alternative people, and sources to quote the golden rule maybe said a little bit differently and even worded I think better then the bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic_of_reciprocity

I think self defense is great by the way as a last resort for those who can not be reasoned with. I find though most people you can reason with, and unfortunately for the other few .. Maybe they are substance abusers or other issues in which might give them the tendency to be totally without reason you must resort to self defense as a last resort of course and after have given the as fair chance as you can.

[Juniper138]

There are books out there, for raising pagan kids or not that do cover ethics.

You may want to introduce such concepts as the Wiccan rede and the Law of Return, Karma and such. Teach the kids about how everything you do or say affects the world around you, and then comes back to you.

[wolfjan1]

There are MANY adult coloring books put out by Dover. By adult, I mean they have many smaller details and the kids can graduate to colored pencils, instead of just crayons. They also have "stained glass" coloring books that you can copy even on to clear plastic printer size sheets. They can use them for many different projects and seasons.
And, don't forget plain paper and a childs, imagination.

[wolfjan1]

There are so many books out there to teach children. My favorite is for younger children and you can probably find it at Walmart. It is white with BIG letters that say WHY DO I HAVE TO SAY PLEASE? on the front.
Manners and sharing are some of the first things children learn. You can teach them all day, but if you Show them those things by treating each other kindly, it will leave an imprint. Practice with "restruant* sp" games and grocery store games. Then go for the real thing. This is the beginning of ethics and you will have to repeat it many times, but it is worth it. I have to use those "disabled person" carts. I have had kids run right in to me, and I have had kids offer to hand me things I was trying to reach. I ALWAYS make sure to say thank you. Some of the kids say excuse me, and some just Give me a dirty look and keep on running and their parents never say anything to them. They will start asking you ethical questions, or you can ask them, when able to be in public, how they felt about something that they saw in public. Life is open to discussion. An open mind wil cope, a closed one will strike out.

[Ceres]

Manners and sharing are some of the first things children learn. You can teach them all day, but if you Show them those things by treating each other kindly, it will leave an imprint.

The effect of this is tremendous; far greater than any other way you teach. :weirdsmil

[Lyrien]

I know I am the best teacher of morals, but let's face it, I'm not perfect. Do you do any coloring pages, books, etc with your children? I've done Berenstein Bears, etc, but my 9 year old is out of that now. What's the next step? How do you do it without preaching? (I sound preachy, and I don't like hearing myself any more than my kids like it. "blah blah blah wrong. blah blah blah should., etc)

As mentioned previously, leading by example is the best way to teach these things. However, if you are looking for something to teach you might try short stories or old fairy tales. I once purchased a set of 10 books from Avon that were perfect for this. They were very small and short books, but written for a child of about 8 or so to read independently. Each one discussed a virtue through story, while some were mildly religious, they were all very general about it. I've managed to hang on to only one of these books through the past 11 years, but here is the isbn if you were interested in seeing what I am talking about. (0-7853-4310-5) They are long out of print and a million dollars now, but something similar could be achieved through other old tales....which is exactly what the group of stories did. These are the stories from the series I had, some are pretty recognizable, this is the type of thing I'm talking about...stories with a purpose.


The Emperor's New Clothes
The Fisherman and His Wife
The Four Musicians
The Gift
The Honest Woodcutter
Johnny Appleseed
King Midas
The North Wind
Stone Soup
The Tortoise and the Hare

[RainInanna]

Some great ideas here (I saw that book in the store Ceres and had a vague memory that someone recommended it - now I know who :lol:).

Belleshazar beat me to it. As a kid I read a lot of fables and fairytales. I have a treasury called Best Loved Childrens Stories which includes stories with "lessons", and there's a whole lot of them freely available online and linked in the Mythology & Folklore forum here at MW. I also plan to go over discussions and studies of adult ethics myself so I can review my own ethics and launch discussions with my child about them.

A lot of people believe it's necessary to be Christian to get our ethics and principles from God. Well we all know this isn't the case. Instead we can root our ethics in our own spirituality, or, in my case as a child, in just being a good person. My parents were not spiritual at all but managed to pass along their values, principles, and ethics, just fine.

[Lyrien]

I play a game with my kids almost every time we are in the car driving someplace. It's called right or wrong. I will present some ethical situation and ask how they would handle/deal with/ or react in said situation. I think this approach more than any has helped instill many ethical beliefs in my children. If not, it's forced them to think about the situations and that there is usually more than one answer. I know I've addressed this someplace else on this forum.....hrm, someplace.

[RainInanna]

I know I've addressed this someplace else on this forum.....hrm, someplace.

Y'know, I had a great ethical problems site up the other day too but can't find it for the life of me. You can definitely find some online at least though.

[Lyrien]

Oh I'm sure, I just make them up as I go along though. Either something that I pull out of my ear, or something relatively topical to our family, life, or current events. My kids are getting old enough now that they are the ones asking the questions. That's kind of cool.

[Ceres]

I think there are lots of opportunities for discussion with kids about ethics that are relevant and meaningful for them. When they tell you about things that go on socially between friends (and enemies!) at school, stuff you read in the newspaper or magazines to them, the squeegee kid that wants to wash your windshield, when they ask questions like who uses food from the foodbank, why are people homeless, what does abortion mean, where is the Middle East and why is it always in the news, what does gay mean or why do some people talk about god as if there is only one and they just had coffee with him?

[Mishka]

Should have come back sooner to see all the replies here. Thank you.

[Leomarth]

I would start reading philosophy with them. Start discussing the 'why' of people's actions.

I have a book (lost somewhere in my piles) that is geared towards teaching philosophy specifically to children.

[Ceres]

I would be interested in your book about philosophy geared toward children, if you can find it. Kids are natural philosophers, being so curious about the world to begin with. I love to ask them what they think about things - they often give me things to think about through their perspective.

[Leomarth]

I would be interested in your book about philosophy geared toward children, if you can find it. Kids are natural philosophers, being so curious about the world to begin with. I love to ask them what they think about things - they often give me things to think about through their perspective.

I'll dig around my business room tomorrow. I'm fairly sure I know where it's at. (I'm a piler)