I'm not sure I buy the "first breath" thing.

[The Suckling]

I try to view astrology scientifically reather than spiritually, as the only spirit I believe in a frontal lobe. It makes perfect sense that the gravitational pull of the planets can affect someone's behavior and developement, especially with all the noted activity attributed to the Moon. The Moon effects the tides, and the human body is made of 80% water. I've never doubted the researched correlations of the cosmos and psyche for a second.

The one thing I have trouble believeing is that one's personality is "stamped" when they take their first breath. How is that possible? I think a more fitting explaination is that one's birthdate is more of a "starting point" in a predictable cycle. It makes it seem there's a some sort of predesigned "soul" that drives a person's psyche, but in reality it's just another flow of events in the giant ecosystem of the galaxy.

Any thoughts on this?

[Myst]

I don't think of astrology as "stamping" someone, but as suggesting someone is likely to have certain characteristics and reactions. It's not meant to be an absolute truth in any way, IMHO.

[Phoenix Blue]

Along the same line, don't call something a science just because you believe in it. Call it a science when you can verify it with non-anecdotal evidence, and when others can do the same.

Don't get me wrong, I'm fascinated with all things astrological. But I'm interested in astronomy first and foremost--which is an actual science. Astrology is an art, in my opinion anyway; I'm happy to view it as that, and nothing more, and nothing less.

[Litha]

It's my understanding that the singular decision each soul makes to manifest on the spiritual plane is decided prior to their inhabiting form; first breath does not "stamp" personality onto that self.

Astrology, like Magick, is both art and a science.

Webster's defines skill as that which arises from the exercise of intuitive faculties. Science is defined as the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
This is exactly what an astrologer does when he studies the positions and aspects of celestial bodies. No doubt there exists the bastardization of astrology with quickie news column bubble gum sun sign readings , but these do not being to take into account the other planets found in a birthchart.

The best way to find out anything for oneself is to personal trials.
Do your own science. Keep a journal, follow the movement of the planets and their aspects to your personal points.

Keep the mind open. We all know things are in existance even if they cannot be seen. For example, the technology to study neutrinos is evolving. Prior to science's ability to study these particles, they still existed.

All things give off energetic radiation. Our own senses can feel and measure these vibrations. We can use all types of energies as our communication device between conscious and subconsious, by receiving information from the vibrations and energy waves emitted by people, places, thoughts and things.

[Phoenix Blue]

Quoth Litha:
Astrology, like Magick, is both art and a science.

Webster's defines skill as that which arises from the exercise of intuitive faculties. Science is defined as the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

The best way to find out anything for oneself is to personal trials.
Do your own science. Keep a journal, follow the movement of the planets and their aspects to your personal points.

Keep the mind open. We all know things are in existance even if they cannot be seen. For example, the technology to study neutrinos is evolving. Prior to science's ability to study these particles, they still existed.

All things give off energetic radiation. Our own senses can feel and measure these vibrations. We can use all types of energies as our communication device between conscious and subconsious, by receiving information from the vibrations and energy waves emitted by people, places, thoughts and things.

I'm actually very skeptical of the claim that there's anything scientific about astrology--because there's a lot of subjectivity involved in charting, at least for me. I take advantage of my intuition when I write up a chart, so that I can try to make it more accurate for the subject of the chart. But science, hard science, demands intuition be left out of the loop and hard numbers be used. I could see similarities between astrology and psychology, because psychology is a much more subjective science. . . but even then, I've never seen any real studywork done that shows a correlation between people born under a given sun (or moon, or rising) sign and personal traits.

I'm open to a bit of experimentation, though. :) Since I've not divulged any information about my own chart here as of yet, would you be willing to take a crack at drawing my chart based not on my birthdate, but on a list of questions you would provide to tell you what might be where in someone's chart?

Yeah, my birthdate is in my profile. . . but don't go and cheat, you. :p I'm not going to try and mislead you, and I'm really not interested in "debunking" astrology. . . but I like to maintain some level of healthy skepticism, too.

[Litha]

Originally posted by Phoenix_Blue

would you be willing to take a crack at drawing my chart based not on my birthdate, but on a list of questions you would provide to tell you what might be where in someone's chart?

*sigh* to have the leisure to work on such things would be an indulgence on my part. even keeping up with this board can be a bit of a challenge.

here's a little peek through the window of my life.....aside from my full time job my present personal schedule includes preparing a presentation on the ethics of ecumenical diversity and rights theory versus premodern absolutism, research writing a grant proposal to funding an in house day care center, designing a performance measurement system for the evaluation of an alcoholic rehab outreach program, chairing a federally mandated tristate practice forum, sitting on the policy board for computerized systematic medication administration, attending graduate school fulltime, and doing astrological charts for my customers while also keeping up with my coven work.

not clear on if this was an open invitation for all to partake or a request directed towards me alone as it would certainly be an interesting exercise for those who would like to take a stab at it! thanks for supplying yourself as an astroguinea :D

[Myst]

Incidentally, I don't think the intention was to say that astrology is science, but that the individual who started the thread likes to look at it from a scientific point of view - ie. the moon affects tides so it's logical that the planets affect people. No I don't think they meant at all that astrology is science or even scientifically provable.

[Litha]

yep, Myst, I does seems that T.S. was only speaking about a personal preference and not about the proof of science; interested parties seeking to read up on that can look up the research of the french scientist Michel Gauquelin.

[Doctor Oakroot]

How about this... you're in the womb pleasantly responding to the gentle tides of the planet... when all of a sudden you're dumped screaming into cold air.... my guess is those timing functions influenced by the tides suddenly stop and their positions are permanently fixed in your psyche at that traumatic moment.