Ceremonies, Rituals, and the like

[Faydwyn]

I’ve been using the term “Agnostic Pantheist” to describe my beliefs. The Agnostic part is being skeptical about the supernatural such as a supernatural god or the Universe having a consciousness, while still admitting that such things are possible. As far as the Pantheist part I fall more in line with Scientific/Natural Pantheism.

Now that I’ve provided a bit of background info, on to the actual topic…

I’d like to do some ceremonies, rituals, etc. but I’m having trouble figuring out what to do. For me, timing such ceremonies with the solstices, equinoxes, and moon cycle make the most sense. I’ve also noticed that the other Pagan sabbats correlate with the seasons where I live, so maybe those too. Calling on a God or Goddess I don’t believe in doesn’t really feel right to me, nor does doing magic because I am skeptical about such things (there’s the Agnosticism again).

I already do some meditation, but it tends to be more about my internal self rather than connecting with the Universe.

So what do you do? Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks.

[Tranquility]

Hello Faydwyn.

I consider myself a Pantheist to a certain degree. It has always felt 'right' to me that the divine, god, the creative force is found in everything. All of nature/being are divine in their own right, and it always felt best for me. Although I've been studying Druidry for a few years, and although i'm fascinated by the myths and lore concerning Gods and Goddesses, I've never felt comfortable praying to a Being that I don't really believe in either.

So, what do I recommend? Focus on the very physical and "real" aspects of your belief. It's a fact that seasons change, and fall is typically the time of the harvest. So, why not celebrate the harvest time? Don't even call it Samhuinn if you don't want, but acknowledge the passing of summer, the celebrating of the harvest, and the coming of winter. Give thanks for the changing of the seasons, and the perpetual continuation of life.

Ritual has also been very difficult for me to cope with. It doesn't feel very natural to me - it feels forced. I do a formal ritual, but I spend most of my energy on a special day/night doing little tasks with a special intention/focus. Example: For Samhuinn, to celebrate the harvest, I will go out and harvest some wild edibles such as Acorns, Hickory Nuts, and other edibles I can find that are still alive. Since i'm not at home with our family garden, this is what I work with. During the coming days ill be conscious of the changing of the leaves, the weather, how the celestial signs are changing and so on. I might also remember my ancestors by lighting a candle or asking for their blessings in a meditation. There are a number of things you can do, just work with whatever feels best! Good luck!

[CzechWoods]

I’ve been using the term “Agnostic Pantheist” to describe my beliefs. The Agnostic part is being skeptical about the supernatural such as a supernatural god or the Universe having a consciousness, while still admitting that such things are possible. As far as the Pantheist part I fall more in line with Scientific/Natural Pantheism.

Now that I’ve provided a bit of background info, on to the actual topic…

I’d like to do some ceremonies, rituals, etc. but I’m having trouble figuring out what to do. For me, timing such ceremonies with the solstices, equinoxes, and moon cycle make the most sense. I’ve also noticed that the other Pagan sabbats correlate with the seasons where I live, so maybe those too. Calling on a God or Goddess I don’t believe in doesn’t really feel right to me, nor does doing magic because I am skeptical about such things (there’s the Agnosticism again).

I already do some meditation, but it tends to be more about my internal self rather than connecting with the Universe.

So what do you do? Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks.


well that depends.

what is the reason for the ritual? what do you want the ritual to be about? what goals do you have personally and altruistically.

there is no need or must for invocation of deities, and i agree that inviting someone you dont have faith into, makes not only little/no sense, but could also be taken the wrong way.

if you want to do a ritual/ceremony on a full moon, you should be aware what the powers on a full moon are about. meditate on full moons, but also in other moon phases about the full moon and its meaning to you, and/or your goals. if you are connected to your goals and the occation, you can start your ceremony.

you should have some ritualized concept, of how you start and end the ceremony. it can be casting of a cirvcle, by one way or other. you can draw a circle with salt or wheat or chalk or just a ribbon, thats upon yourself, but you should do it, so your subcouncious self or spirit or whatever you wish to refer to it, will know that now something else but the normal stuff (every days life) is about to happen, and at the end that it is ending (breaking the cicle)

this is especially important because something could go wrong (think of murphy) or avry at least, make you suddenly feel strangfe, uncomfy whjatever. by having your ritual at the ebginning and the end, you will know (and your subconciosu too) that it is an episode with a defined time-frame and an end, which will make you freak out less, or be calm even, even if murphys law had hit you with a sledgehammer ;)

you can be less traditional about the circle thing though. i know of people who use a specific gong for the beginning and end - but they only use this very gong for this very occassions.

if you want to have incense/candles. make sure they correspond to the event, at least to you. if you feel like spring equinox should be a green candle for the spring, go with green, if you want a yellow one, because of the nice sun warmth, you go for that. but make yourself again a plan and a reasoning to this. it will help your spirit/unconciuos self to UNDERSTAND the different moods of different rituals

make sure too, that incense you use on a daily level, lets say a stick to cover unwanted smells, is NOT USED FOR RITUAL: YOU CAN (if you can afford to) use a different smell per every occassion, like a certian incense for spring equinox and a different for lightmass etc, and a differentt for the full moon and another for the dark one. or you use one kind of incense for all moon-rituals, and another for the sun related. you can also just use 1 incense for any ritual work you do , especially in the beginning, just make sure you dont use it on the mundaine level also, again to have yourt mind and spirit set on: THIS IS SOMETHING EXTRA ORDINARY

hope this helps

:idea:

[Xentor]

Hi Faydwyn! Come look up the Pantheist path in the Paths forum. Elsewhere, there's plenty of sceptical spiriualists around, too. I'm one of those who doesn't like ritual.

Welcome to Mystic Wicks!

[Windsmith]

Welcome aboard, Faydwyn!

If you check out some of the other Pantheism threads, like Xentor suggests, I'll be the one running around squeeing like a little girl because I just figured out that I've been a Pantheist all this time without even realizing it! So, as you might imagine, this kind of thing is on my mind a lot lately, too.

I agree with CzechWoods: it's important to know what, exactly, you're celebrating. A statement of intention for your ritual can go a long way toward focusing your ritual-planning process. Are you celebrating the harvest? See if you can find a place to go pick...something (around here it'd be apples). Observing the changing of the seasons? Find out which parks near you have lots of trees changing color in Autumn or blossoming in Spring and go for a long walk. If Nature's your thing, get out into it if you can! If deities aren't your thing, leave 'em at home.

::squees like a little girl and skips away to go frolic::

[Faydwyn]

Thank you all for the welcome and the great posts. You’ve given me quite a bit to think about.

Although I've been studying Druidry for a few years, and although i'm fascinated by the myths and lore concerning Gods and Goddesses, I've never felt comfortable praying to a Being that I don't really believe in either.

I feel a bit like this too; the stories are interesting and many have a lot of wisdom, but I don’t see them as literally true. Druidry has appealed to me for a very long time, but haven’t really done any in depth study of it. I’m curious, how you balance Druidry and not believing in a literal God or Goddess? Are they compatible?


Ritual has also been very difficult for me to cope with. It doesn't feel very natural to me - it feels forced.

I kind of feel like this as well. I feel lucky to have grown up in a quite non-religious family (my mom shared her beliefs with my sister and myself and then encouraged us to find our own), but that also means I don’t have a clue as to what to do for rituals. But I want to do something…something more formal sometimes and more casual other times. Does that make any sense?


if you want to do a ritual/ceremony on a full moon, you should be aware what the powers on a full moon are about. meditate on full moons, but also in other moon phases about the full moon and its meaning to you, and/or your goals. if you are connected to your goals and the occation, you can start your ceremony.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by being aware of what the powers of the moon are about? Or do you just mean what the moon symbolizes for me? What do you mean by connected to my goals and the occasion?


hope this helps

It certainly does. Thanks!


If you check out some of the other Pantheism threads, like Xentor suggests, I'll be the one running around squeeing like a little girl because I just figured out that I've been a Pantheist all this time without even realizing it! So, as you might imagine, this kind of thing is on my mind a lot lately, too.


I know what you mean. It’s new to me too. When I found it, my reaction was along the lines of: That’s what I believe! There’s a name for it! There are other people who believe the same thing!

Thanks again everyone. Even if I didn’t respond directly to everything, I’m going to be thinking about it all.

Faydwyn

[Tranquility]

Well Faydwyn, compatibility varies with the organization you study with (if one at all). For example, OBOD is much more open ended about the way it introduces Druidry to the student. I find that believing or not believing in a God/Goddess/Diety doesn't matter. OBOD is much more open to possiblities. ADF on the other hand, essentially has the opinion that you aren't a Druid if you don't worship this way, at this time, and with these Gods/Goddesses. I should also have you know I'm a member of both, and I don't have a favorite. Both have their advantanges and disadvantages. The funny thing is, even though I don't really 'believe' in these Gods and Goddesses, I have had some extremely intense meditations with them. One example of this is I was meditating in the woods at night time on Imbolc and essentially called to Brighid to inspire me. I was apprehensive, but ended up with one of the most powerful meditations i've had. So.. I'm still really trying to balance both ends.


Re conerning ritual: I think I'm right alongside you with this one. Sometimes formal and sometimes casual are what I am feeling like. I'll tell you what I do for this situation. Mara Freeman's "Kindling the Celtic Spirit" is my bible in this regard. She has compiled an excellent 'database' of rituals and traditions that normally occurred on the holy days. If I want something more "casual", I'll do the little traditional things people did on the special days. Example: for Beltaine- Waking up before the sun rises to collect dew which had special healing powers, between sunrise and sunset collecting 'flowers as golden as the sun' - marsh marigold being the luckiest. Making a maybush/may pole. Something formal would be setting down some time to do a ritual. I have personally always preferred giving thanks during the day, with these small rituals. Full blown rituals never felt write for me.. I don't know why.

[CzechWoods]

Thank you all for the welcome and the great posts. You’ve given me quite a bit to think about.


You are welcome




I kind of feel like this as well. I feel lucky to have grown up in a quite non-religious family (my mom shared her beliefs with my sister and myself and then encouraged us to find our own), but that also means I don’t have a clue as to what to do for rituals. But I want to do something…something more formal sometimes and more casual other times. Does that make any sense?

and even though you hav no experience in rituals from religios backgrounds, you still have experience with rituals, but are not aware of them. I am talking of things you do in a certain manner and always the same, like shaking hands with someone you meet, etc.

maybe by recognizing/decyphreing the every day (casual or mondaine) rituals, and getting aware of them would help you to find a generally more secure feelings for ceremonies as such


Could you elaborate on what you mean by being aware of what the powers of the moon are about? Or do you just mean what the moon symbolizes for me? What do you mean by connected to my goals and the occasion?


Faydwyn

I was giving an example. but staying on the example. if you would like to do a full moon ritual/ceremony, even with no other goal than to honour/coonect to the full moon, you should BEFORE doing the ritual/ceremony, do meditation, or at least intense brain storming about a full moon.

what does the full moon reprtesent.

and so you have a better feeling for the occassion (here full moon) you should repeat those brainstorming or better yet meditations on a full moon, on a new moon, and some other occassions. so it is not a certain lunar influence that brings the rsults but also a more objective (or subjective, in this case) Point of view

this is equally true for a solar event, or the welcoming of a season.

of course you should get clear what the full moon means to you.
but do not stop there.
try finding more general meanings, ie widen your horizon.

than you make up your mind or plan the ritual>/ceremony.

needs not to be a detailed play like/directions included thing.
just set your mind (and subconscious/spirit) to the goal. what do you want this ritual/ceremony to be about
what "stuff" do you intend to do
what "stuff" do you want to NOT happen (and why)
example: some people dont want to fart during ritual, cause they believe it is not right; well in this case dont eat beans before ceremony.

and yes, i am serious.

you can OF COURSE let it all happen, without much planning, but its never wrong to think about DO/DONT things, so you have at least some inner guide line.

more official/formal ceremonies always feel a little awkward in the beginning. but this is equally true for the mundaine levels of rituals i talked about earlier. think of the first job interview. you have to dress formally, and the tie maybe too tight/strange, and you have to worry about when to unbotton the jacket when sitting down, and whose hands to shake first, and how firm the shake of the hand and all that kind of things.

when you have done 20 job interviews, the awkwardness is mostly gone. there is a routine.

the job interview example also fits for th spiritual ceremonies quite well. you too would research before applying for a job, would make yourself some DO/DONOTS guidelines, have prepared more or less, or go there and just be yourself

its similar.

just have something done what i talked before, so your mind/subcon./spirit dont mess the ritual with a job interview, and you can keep all ceremony-experiences, in that safe environment

[Faydwyn]

Tranquility: Thanks for the various info. Freeman’s website has some interesting information (which I’ve only skimmed so far) and based on the reviews at Amazon.com you aren’t the only one that really likes it! :)

CzechWoods: Thanks for the clarifications and advice. You are completely right about it feeling awkward right now. It’s good to know I’m not the only one. I will contemplate what you’ve “said.”

Thank you both!