Weather

[Jadeanite]

Does anyone have any experience with minor weather manipulation?

Over the past couple years I've run into enough coincidences that I'm not entirely sure they're really coincidences, so I figured the best way to find out was to try to find someone who knows more about it than I do (which is extremely easy)

I'm a fairly analytical person, and don't want to try to attribute anything to myself that I probably have nothing to do with... But I've found that if I seriously ask for rain, it will happen within the next week or so, and during a storm I'll often try to enrage or sooth it in the same way I do my horses, and it will often seem to work. Both of those could just be coincidences, especially since I have been very careful about rarely asking for rain since one summer when it rained the whole time... I loved it, but flooding wasn't the best thing and I felt at least slightly responsible (it wasn't major flooding, just a ton of water in the cabins). The coincidence that sparked this question was last night, when it was way to warm so I started trying to make myself cool down by imagining the frost going to the music and asking for cold. It worked on me at the time, which is normal, but this morning I walked out and the air that had seemed like a sauna for the past week was suddenly freezing.

That could still be a coincidence, especially since it warmed up very quickly, but it was startling enough to spur me into wanting to ask. There are other things that go into it, but those are more specific to me, and what I really want to know is if this 'asking' of mine (pretty much a welling sense of 'please' and the visual of what I want aimed either at the air, clouds, or simply upwards) is something that anyone has tried before and knows something about.

(If that ramble is confusing I'll try to rephrase a bit of it O.o I honestly don't think I know what I'm talking about.)

[mtpathy]

high thin spread stratus clouds, birds flying very high in the air in formation, some trees designate the change of weather by the bottom of leafs flipping upwards, as well as birds will start to cluster in big groups, having your allergies act up, or feeling a slight tingle in the air.
there are many signs of weather change that might not be readily noticable
and yet they have enough of a affect on the psyche to manifest wishful
thoughts of the weather to come.
there is no such thing as manipulating the weather, but that does not mean
that one cannot learn to "be" the weather, what is summer turning into fall
without the trees going bare and colored leafs blowing in circles and swirls?
if you can imagine and see it, you can place yourself within its moment and
ride it.

[CzechWoods]

high thin spread stratus clouds, birds flying very high in the air in formation, some trees designate the change of weather by the bottom of leafs flipping upwards, as well as birds will start to cluster in big groups, having your allergies act up, or feeling a slight tingle in the air.
there are many signs of weather change that might not be readily noticable
and yet they have enough of a affect on the psyche to manifest wishful
thoughts of the weather to come.


i agree.
know mother earth and her signs, so you may be able to understand the weather situations.





there is no such thing as manipulating the weather,


here i have to disagree. manipulating the weather IS possible, doable BUT not recommendable.

the karmic aftremath/responsibility can come and kick your butt pretty heavily, in fact. one needs to understand, that despite this being tempting, and even though your intentions may be the most altruistic ones, such a weather manipulation does have loads of effects and side effects you no zilch about in advance nor while the manipulation succeeds, nor what is yet to come





but that does not mean
that one cannot learn to "be" the weather, what is summer turning into fall
without the trees going bare and colored leafs blowing in circles and swirls?
if you can imagine and see it, you can place yourself within its moment and
ride it.

here i agree. again. wholeheartedly

[Cindlady2]

This might be one of those subjects that needs a 'sticky' , at least it seems to be coming up (along with storms) allot lately.

I think yes, one can influence the weather. I have done it.
Is it a good idea? Not in most cases. The weather is not something to fool around with except in extreme cases and if you know what you are doing and the consequences of doing it. The first thing to remember is what you bring to one area, comes from another. You don't want to bring weather from an area that might need it more than you. You must also try to be specific. Asking for rain could give you anything from a 10 minute shower, to a storm lasting days. If you need enough rain to keep the corn from dieing the in the next
2 weeks, that is what you ask for. You must never be greedy.

As for what you did or didn't do... hard to say. I would have to know what the weather in region was doing etc.

[Jadeanite]

I hadn't thought of maybe just having noticed it. At the moment I'm assuming that it is possible to manipulate (even if not for me) but that definitely gives me another explanation! I don't tend to do this very often, and I'm not very knowlegable about signs of the weather, but in some ways that might make sense. It also gives me something that I should probably start paying attention to even if I haven't before. Thanks ^^

I'm fairly well aware that there can be some bad karma involved in messing with weather (though more from reading fantasy books, and I tend to look at anything from that source with a critical eye) so my bit with the cold has been the first time I've actually tried messing around without it being a request. With that I was actually trying to see if I could do a bit of mental manipulation I'm used to so it would spread to the room I was in; I'm fairly good at making myself feel warm or cold just by imagining, so I started useing frost and ice (from how I've seen it form on my farm) as the spreading point for some colder air. I know it cooled me down but I couldn't be sure about the rest, and the morning after startled me. Most of the time it's more like a prayer, albeit a prayer with a certain sense behind it, to the sky asking for what it cares to send.

I've never tried to get specific, and I'm not sure if I dare to, simply because of the sense of it, but next time the fields are dieing I might try just asking for enough to wet them down and see what happens (I'll never know if it's just coincidence if I don't try.)

If it helps at all, I live in northern Florida. A month or so ago we finally got the first breath of fall, but it died off back into heat and humidity. For the past week or so it has been a hit of heat and moisture when I step outside in the morning, except for yesterday when it was cool and crisp. Today it was back to normal smothering weather. The temp is supposed to drop rapidly at some point in the next few weeks though.

At the moment I'm operating under the assumption they've all been coincidences (or my subconsious being observant ^^), but I still want to know more about it just in case.

[~Elise~]

Yes, it is possible to manipulate the weather--just as you can manipulate reality.
I am a weather witch...it is one of my strongest abilities. But as said, you do have to be aware of the long lasting effects of what you do. I'm trying to stand back more and let the normal weather patterns come back into our area here.
my children have inherited my ability as well--they just don't use it as much as I do.
There have been times-during rituals normally -- that it has rained everywhere BUT my backyard--neighbors, front and side yards, etc--once ritual was done... and the last person came in--it started raining in the back. (I have witnesses to this)
I can tell more stories along those lines, as well.

Elise

[Xander67]

. manipulating the weather IS possible, doable BUT not recommendable.

the karmic aftremath/responsibility can come and kick your butt pretty heavily, in fact. one needs to understand, that despite this being tempting, and even though your intentions may be the most altruistic ones, such a weather manipulation does have loads of effects and side effects you no zilch about in advance nor while the manipulation succeeds, nor what is yet to come


I agree 100% with this... I would hate to be on the recieving end of the Karmic Payout for a storm wich caused damage to others property and loss of life...

[Kailen]

I agree 100% with this... I would hate to be on the recieving end of the Karmic Payout for a storm wich caused damage to others property and loss of life...

I agree. I have a weather talent I have no control over and occasionally that can be very scarey.

[ModernKnight]

I used to do quite a bit of weather manipulation a few years ago. I got out of practice because quite frankly it wasn't all that practical. I don't believe in karma, so that didn't influence my decision. With my weather manipulation, I never "asked" the weather, I just reached out and did it.

[Agaliha]

Does anyone have any experience with minor weather manipulation?

No.



there are many signs of weather change that might not be readily noticable
and yet they have enough of a affect on the psyche to manifest wishful
thoughts of the weather to come.

there is no such thing as manipulating the weather...

I agree. I don't think it's possible.
Obviously most who posted in this thread disagree. That's fine.

I just can't see how one person can have so much power over the weather.
I've thought and focused on snow so many times when it was cold enough out and nothing happened. ::shrug::

[mtpathy]

The enviornment doesn't take upon the characteristics that we assume upon it, one cannot inrage a storm or calm a storm because the storm knows no rage or calm it's us that places that characteristic onto it and assumes that position.
If Jadeanite doesn't mind i'd like to use a horse as a metaphore for how one would work with the elements without having control over the element that there working with.
When you'r riding the horse, the subtle movments of your leg pressing against it's side cues the horse to move to the left or right, when you pull slightly back on the reigns of the horse he/she knows to stop, when you lift yourself up slightly from the saddle a horse knows to lope, after a time these things become so natural that theres no thought involved, it's as if your horse and you become one.
Now using your emotions and imagination while seeing and experiencing the movment of a storm how would one ride it?
You would give the storm the characteristics of emotions, you would place yourself within its experience by using your imagination, and since the cues of this are so subtle "emotion and mental", it's as if both are one.
it gives the illusion of being able to control the weather.
Being able to break these things down like this is the very basis of learning the art of ShapeShifting, if you can bring yourself to such a point of associating personel experience with natural phenominon(sp)? then perhaps it's not manipulating weather you should be looking at but shapeshifting instead.
*salutations

[CzechWoods]

No.



I agree. I don't think it's possible.
Obviously most who posted in this thread disagree. That's fine.

I just can't see how one person can have so much power over the weather.
I've thought and focused on snow so many times when it was cold enough out and nothing happened. ::shrug::

it is not about power over

[Agaliha]

it is not about power over

Regardless I don't believe it possible.

[CzechWoods]

only your mind is the limit

[CassiaMoon]

I havent manipulated the weather per se....but i have casted spells to protect my home and property from damage as a result of storms, quite effectively.

[RainInanna]

I've been able to ask that the rain or snow hold off until I get home during my walk from work, but I won't hold it back for long, and I won't force it. It's more of a request to the energies.

I don't believe in manipulating the weather more than that, it would have far-reaching effects that I cannot predict nor do I want to mess with. I feel nature has a better idea of what the weather should do than I.

[~Elise~]

Can I do this everywhere--no -- I have to be there to do it, for the most part. What I do can be tracked on radar-so there can be 'proof', so to speak.
If a storm is particularly bad-hail, etc- I'll 'cut' the storm to split and go around my property. That's been tracked on radar by my students, as well as myself.

I had to make a trip to Houston once, quite a few years back, it was raining all the way. I wasn't driving it so could concentrate on the weather. My ex said he could track our progress on radar because I split the storm around the car we were traveling in... he could see it split then come back together behind us.

This summer was unbearably hot and Rick works out in it every day and I worry about him. After about a month of over 90+ weather, i envisioned pulling the jet stream down to bring cooler weather. Lo, and behold, a week later - we had cooler weather and more rain which was needed, as well.
I about jumped out of my skin though when after about a week of that, I actually listened to the news and they were talking about the jet stream dropping down early and how it was helping to make hurricane season lighter than normal, as well.
So, at that point--I released that visualization and let it go back to where it should be. That should be a lesson to those wanting to manipulate the weather--it just doesn't affect you--it affects everyone.

Elise

[covenofkeys]

Regardless I don't believe it possible.

to each their own opinion, right?

[Lunacie]

No.



I agree. I don't think it's possible.
Obviously most who posted in this thread disagree. That's fine.

I just can't see how one person can have so much power over the weather.
I've thought and focused on snow so many times when it was cold enough out and nothing happened. ::shrug::

... maybe you were 'outvoted' by a bunch of other people who were praying and witching the weather NOT to snow...?

I practiced some weather witching back when I first began practicing witchcraft. We were at a Ren Fest and had some bad storms heading our way. I thought I would turn the storms aside so they would miss us - preventing damage to all the mechandise displayed under flimsy booths and tents - and it worked. The storm did turn to the south and go around us, and it dropped a tornado a few miles away. I felt guilty about someone else getting hit by that tornado for quite a while.

But about three years ago I learned how to simply dissipate or cut the energy in just a single super cell thunderstorm, weakening the rotation that leads to a tornado touching down. Much less in the way of repercussions when you keep it little and local instead of messing with the whole jet stream. ;)

[~Elise~]

I agree, lunacie... first time I've done that--AND the last.

Elise

[Lunacie]

I agree, lunacie... first time I've done that--AND the last.

Elise

I tend to think locally rather than globally anyway. I can sense the weather from southern Oklahoma to about the Nebraska border though. I guess I've always been timid about doing anything that will bring large consequences so the furthest away I've tried to change weather energy is only a county or so - maybe about 50 miles at the most, generally not that far. There have been some really bad super cells in the county where I grew up which is where I still have family living - that's about 150 miles away and I don't even try to reach that far with my weather witching energies. Too many ways for the energies to go astray when it's that far away from me.

My most impressive working was an area about the size of a mini van that melted the ice on and around my then-hubbies little car at work 20 miles away.

[RainInanna]

How long have you each been practicing, Lunacie and Elise?

I'm wondering if your experience has enabled you to practice such magic more effectively then most, whether it is a matter of skill and wisdom gained over time, and what other energy work was a prerequisite to this particular magic. Have each of you worked extensively with natural energies - ie. seasonal magic, sensing energy from the environment, working close to the earth, etc.?

[Lunacie]

...counts on my fingers...

Gods, it's been 16 or 17 years now (that makes me feel OLD) since I became interested in trying metaphysics for myself. I've always been interested in magic, but at that point I really needed to learn how to do psychic shield work. The person (my ex) who taught me about metaphysics had been a Wiccan before meeting me and he began teaching me about Wicca and returning to the Old Ways himself. My main interest for quite a while was the energy work but I managed to learn quite a bit about Wicca without really trying to. ;)

[mtpathy]

... maybe you were 'outvoted' by a bunch of other people who were praying and witching the weather NOT to snow...?

I practiced some weather witching back when I first began practicing witchcraft. We were at a Ren Fest and had some bad storms heading our way. I thought I would turn the storms aside so they would miss us - preventing damage to all the mechandise displayed under flimsy booths and tents - and it worked. The storm did turn to the south and go around us, and it dropped a tornado a few miles away. I felt guilty about someone else getting hit by that tornado for quite a while.

But about three years ago I learned how to simply dissipate or cut the energy in just a single super cell thunderstorm, weakening the rotation that leads to a tornado touching down. Much less in the way of repercussions when you keep it little and local instead of messing with the whole jet stream. ;)


The issue that im personnely having with this thread isnt that people are saying that they can change the weather, but no ones giving a explanation of how they change it other then "wanting it to change" or "praying for it to change".
If this is something that someone could actually do then there SHOULD be some method behind it, there should be some kind of structure.
all that im hearing are people stating that there "weakening a storm", or "calming a storm" or there "pushing the storm" in other directions, these terms are human terms a storm cannot be "pushed," "calmed", or "weakened" by simply someone wanting it to be so, a storm doesn't know of these terms or ideas it is a storm.

[RainInanna]

Hm, I have to respectfully disagree mtpathy. Storms indeed are formed and moved by air pressure and currents. The difference is simply someone intentionally altering the energy around the storm rather than it occuring naturally.

I don't know, it makes perfect sense to me just because I'm used to the idea that energy can be sensed and gently manipulated, such as in a cleansing ritual or charging a tool. It's really as simple as sending out an intention for a lot of magic, in my experience. But It's hard to explain though unless you recognize what it feels like.

[mtpathy]

Hm, I have to respectfully disagree mtpathy. Storms indeed are formed and moved by air pressure and currents. The difference is simply someone intentionally altering the energy around the storm rather than it occuring naturally..
i completely agree, storms are formed and moved by air pressure and currents, what creates air pressure? its the rotation of the earth on its axis spinning around the sun and the placment of the moon that alters and manipulates jetstream, not the whimes of someone that thinks there roses need a little bit more water this week.



I don't know, it makes perfect sense to me just because I'm used to the idea that energy can be sensed and gently manipulated, such as in a cleansing ritual or charging a tool. It's really as simple as sending out an intention for a lot of magic, in my experience. But It's hard to explain though unless you recognize what it feels like.

thats the thing, i DO know what it feels like. i can see auras off of objects, i can feel the aura "pressure pushing back as you push on it", from various things. but just because you can see or feel vibration doesnt mean that you can physicaly manipulate that which the aura/vibration is coming from.
meaning just because i can see the aura from a object doesnt mean that i can in turn manipulate that object.
feeling and recognizing theres a vibration isnt the same thing as manipulating that vibration, as that vibration isnt anything more then a manifestation of us placing that object with a context of our perception..it has very little to do with the actual object and much more to do with our recognition of the purpose of the object for us.
that last statment let me say it again " vibration isnt anything more then us placing that object within a context of our perception".
that cloud might look like a bunny, but it is a cloud, that storm might seem "angry" but its not, this is simply a misunderstanding of the most basic of ones nature to place things into a context of emotions to better understand them.

[CzechWoods]

The issue that im personnely having with this thread isnt that people are saying that they can change the weather, but no ones giving a explanation of how they change it other then "wanting it to change" or "praying for it to change".
If this is something that someone could actually do then there SHOULD be some method behind it, there should be some kind of structure.
all that im hearing are people stating that there "weakening a storm", or "calming a storm" or there "pushing the storm" in other directions, these terms are human terms a storm cannot be "pushed," "calmed", or "weakened" by simply someone wanting it to be so, a storm doesn't know of these terms or ideas it is a storm.

how do you know what a storm can or cannot do ? are you a storm ?

i mean no offense, in fact on the contrary. if your mind limits you tothe thoughts train, that a storm is a storm, in the definitions of what the science was willing to reveal by now, than of course making a storm calmer or go away seems impossible. in that mind set it is impossinble.

as i stated above. the mind is the limit. stretch the borders of your mind, the capability to accept the thought-impossible and you may get a glimpse of how/why manipulation of weather can work

just saying

[mtpathy]

how do you know what a storm can or cannot do ? are you a storm ?

i mean no offense, in fact on the contrary. if your mind limits you tothe thoughts train, that a storm is a storm, in the definitions of what the science was willing to reveal by now, than of course making a storm calmer or go away seems impossible. in that mind set it is impossinble.

as i stated above. the mind is the limit. stretch the borders of your mind, the capability to accept the thought-impossible and you may get a glimpse of how/why manipulation of weather can work

just saying
One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.


Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.


you can only change the nature of your perception, not whats being percieved.

[CzechWoods]

One day, a scorpion looked around at the mountain where he lived and decided that he wanted a change. So he set out on a journey through the forests and hills. He climbed over rocks and under vines and kept going until he reached a river.
The river was wide and swift, and the scorpion stopped to reconsider the situation. He couldn't see any way across. So he ran upriver and then checked downriver, all the while thinking that he might have to turn back.


Suddenly, he saw a frog sitting in the rushes by the bank of the stream on the other side of the river. He decided to ask the frog for help getting across the stream.

"Hellooo Mr. Frog!" called the scorpion across the water, "Would you be so kind as to give me a ride on your back across the river?"

"Well now, Mr. Scorpion! How do I know that if I try to help you, you wont try to kill me?" asked the frog hesitantly.

"Because," the scorpion replied, "If I try to kill you, then I would die too, for you see I cannot swim!"

Now this seemed to make sense to the frog. But he asked. "What about when I get close to the bank? You could still try to kill me and get back to the shore!"

"This is true," agreed the scorpion, "But then I wouldn't be able to get to the other side of the river!"

"Alright then...how do I know you wont just wait till we get to the other side and THEN kill me?" said the frog.

"Ahh...," crooned the scorpion, "Because you see, once you've taken me to the other side of this river, I will be so grateful for your help, that it would hardly be fair to reward you with death, now would it?!"

So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river. He swam over to the bank and settled himself near the mud to pick up his passenger. The scorpion crawled onto the frog's back, his sharp claws prickling into the frog's soft hide, and the frog slid into the river. The muddy water swirled around them, but the frog stayed near the surface so the scorpion would not drown. He kicked strongly through the first half of the stream, his flippers paddling wildly against the current.

Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back. A deadening numbness began to creep into his limbs.

"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion shrugged, and did a little jig on the drownings frog's back.

"I could not help myself. It is my nature."

Then they both sank into the muddy waters of the swiftly flowing river.


you can only change the nature of your perception, not whats being percieved.

speak for yourself, scorpion. for a scorpio i am not

[Lunacie]

The issue that im personnely having with this thread isnt that people are saying that they can change the weather, but no ones giving a explanation of how they change it other then "wanting it to change" or "praying for it to change".
If this is something that someone could actually do then there SHOULD be some method behind it, there should be some kind of structure.
all that im hearing are people stating that there "weakening a storm", or "calming a storm" or there "pushing the storm" in other directions, these terms are human terms a storm cannot be "pushed," "calmed", or "weakened" by simply someone wanting it to be so, a storm doesn't know of these terms or ideas it is a storm.

Intent. Mostly. There are several different "methods", some may be more or less successful, some will have more or less fallout to deal with.

The first thing I do is reach out with my senses and connect with the storm energy. Then if I want to dissipate the rotation energy in a storm that may precede a tornado touch-down I may send my own energy in a counter clockwise rotation to counteract the energy. If I want to weaken or dissipate the energy in a tornado that has already touched down I may do like Pearls suggests and set up a wedge or blade of my own energy to deflect the storm or weaken it by dividing the energy in half.

I'd tailor my intent and my energies differently if I were dealing with an ice storm or torrential rains that we causing flooding or whatever the situation.


eta: living in Kansas I've had more experience working with supercell/tornadic energies. But my sister-in-law is amazing at doing Anti-Rain-Dance-Chants. :lol:

[~Elise~]

I just do it--as I have seriously for about 15 years or so. I can't tell someone how to do it...either you have the ability or you don't.

I have an athame that I use for weather workings to cut a storm, the rest of it--I just think it and it happens--some way you do magic... you think it and it happens. It is as easy and as hard as that. It just IS.

Elise

[RainInanna]

thats the thing, i DO know what it feels like. i can see auras off of objects, i can feel the aura "pressure pushing back as you push on it", from various things. but just because you can see or feel vibration doesnt mean that you can physicaly manipulate that which the aura/vibration is coming from.
meaning just because i can see the aura from a object doesnt mean that i can in turn manipulate that object.

It's unfortunate that you cannot. I can. Obviously others can. Particularly when the "object" isn't a solid object at all. Surprising that you don't believe magic can affect energy and therefore the universe, but I guess we must just agree to disagree.

[PoisonIvy]

I have worked with the weather for many years now. When I was in school my sister would always ask me to do my "ice dance":lol: (at least,that's what she called it) so that we could get out of school the next day.
And one year a snow storm hit west,north and south of me but went clear around the town I lived in and hit the east coast. The spray from the ocean did some pretty bad damage to the northeast that year.
Well,my girl in NC wanted some snow that year and I told her that I'd send her some.:cheers:
Last year I remember looking at the ground and thinking...."I can't believe the snow is about gone". The next day..........4 inches. It was supposed to be sunny and near 50 that day.

Believe what ya want,but I don't think that I'm half bad at what I do.:fpraise:

[ModernKnight]

i completely agree, storms are formed and moved by air pressure and currents, what creates air pressure? its the rotation of the earth on its axis spinning around the sun and the placment of the moon that alters and manipulates jetstream, not the whimes of someone that thinks there roses need a little bit more water this week.

Scientific explanations exist for all physical phenomenon. If you apply this logic across everything, then that would preclude the existance of magic.

[CzechWoods]

hahahahahahaha

[mtpathy]

there is no such thing as manipulating the weather, but

that does not mean that one cannot learn to "be" the weather, what is summer

turning into fall without the trees going bare and the colored leafs blowing in

circles and swirls? if you can imagine and see it, you can place yourself within

its moment/context and ride it.
The above should answser your question

It's unfortunate that you cannot. I can. Obviously

others can. Particularly when the "object" isn't a solid object at all.

Surprising that you don't believe magic can affect energy and therefore the

universe, but I guess we must just agree to disagree.
I never said that i dont believe magick can affect energy, only that affecting

energy of a object isnt the same thing as affecting the object itself, the reason

being that the vibration of the object is manifested by our perceptions of it

within its place in the world, not the other way around.

Scientific explanations exist for all physical

phenomenon. If you apply this logic across everything, then that would preclude

the existance of magic.
Actually this is a statment that i believe to be completely untrue magick and

science aren't in opposition of each other, they are simply to different ways of

exploring the world around us.

Intent. Mostly. There are several different "methods",

some may be more or less successful, some will have more or less fallout to deal

with.

The first thing I do is reach out with my senses and connect with the storm

energy. Then if I want to dissipate the rotation energy in a storm that may

precede a tornado touch-down I may send my own energy in a counter clockwise

rotation to counteract the energy. If I want to weaken or dissipate the energy in

a tornado that has already touched down I may do like Pearls suggests and set up

a wedge or blade of my own energy to deflect the storm or weaken it by dividing

the energy in half.

I'd tailor my intent and my energies differently if I were dealing with an ice

storm or torrential rains that we causing flooding or whatever the situation.


eta: living in Kansas I've had more experience working with supercell/tornadic

energies. But my sister-in-law is amazing at doing Anti-Rain-Dance-Chants.

:lol:
Again these are things that seem to be assumed when atlest in my experience have

no true connection, vibration following form is a assumption of the mind not of

the physical world.
Within the mental plan where vibration and mental form are interchangable, to

feel something then correlate images of past experiences is a common occurence.
However to feel a emotion and correlate that emotion to a physical phenomenon,

then using the emotion you placed on that object as a way of manipulating it?
what is it that your manipulating? the emotion you placed on the object, or your

assumption that your feeling that emotion/vibration fromt the object and not from

yourself?

there is no such thing as manipulating the weather, but

that does not mean that one cannot learn to "be" the weather, what is summer

turning into fall without the trees going bare and the colored leafs blowing in

circles and swirls? if you can imagine and see it, you can place yourself within

its moment/context and ride it.
i belive that there is mental/etheric manipulation, but this method isnt spacific

to only weather but to any physical form, as vibration preceeds form when its

being witnessed by one who gives it there own experience to ride it by.
I stand by what i said before taht " weather cannot be manipulated by magick",

but the experience of the phenominon can be ridden by understanding the

correlation between vibration and mental form.

[TheWomanMonster]

Would moving air (creating wind?) or moving a cloud be considered weather manipulation? If so... yep I can do it. :)

I think it's a vastly interesting concept, even if there is some debate.

[ModernKnight]

Actually this is a statment that i believe to be completely untrue magick and

science aren't in opposition of each other, they are simply to different ways of

exploring the world around us.


Your earlier post said explicitly that weather was caused by air pressure and sunlight, not magick. You used the presence of a scientific explanation as an argument that magick does not apply. As science does not recognize magick, that line of logic means there is no magick.

Personally, I see multiple different possible worldviews here. I choose a worldview that permits weather magick, because in my experience the universe acts as if it does. The rest is interpretation.

[Lunacie]

Again these are things that seem to be assumed when atlest in my experience have no true connection, vibration following form is a assumption of the mind not of the physical world.

Within the mental plan where vibration and mental form are interchangable, to
feel something then correlate images of past experiences is a common occurence.

However to feel a emotion and correlate that emotion to a physical phenomenon, then using the emotion you placed on that object as a way of manipulating it? what is it that your manipulating? the emotion you placed on the object, or your assumption that your feeling that emotion/vibration fromt the object and not from yourself?

i belive that there is mental/etheric manipulation, but this method isnt spacific
to only weather but to any physical form, as vibration preceeds form when its
being witnessed by one who gives it there own experience to ride it by.
I stand by what i said before taht " weather cannot be manipulated by magick", but the experience of the phenominon can be ridden by understanding the correlation between vibration and mental form.

I understood what you were saying about feeling the weather and being able to predict it. I've done that for most of my life, can remember standing on the front porch as a child and looking at the sky and knowing whether it would storm, can remember waking up in the morning and knowing it was going to snow that day. That has nothing to do with feeling an emotion, internally or externally (although I am also Empathic). I don't ascribe emotions to the weather that aren't (generally) there to begin with.

But I also learned to manipulate energy as well as to feel it, I've been doing psychic or energy healing for 16 years now. And what is a storm composed of? Energy of course. I do find it easier to connect with the energy of storms and to manipulate that kind of energy than fog or snow or clouds. Some forms of energy are more dense than others, taking the physical shape of a person or a tree or a rock. Some are less dense, taking the form of a lake or river or fog - or a storm. But they are all energy and energy can be manipulated.

[mtpathy]

Your earlier post said explicitly that weather was caused by air pressure and sunlight, not magick. You used the presence of a scientific explanation as an argument that magick does not apply. As science does not recognize magick, that line of logic means there is no magick.

Personally, I see multiple different possible worldviews here. I choose a worldview that permits weather magick, because in my experience the universe acts as if it does. The rest is interpretation.

the jet stream is created by the rotation of the planet on its axis as well as "i think" the cycle of the moon, low high tide of the ocean.
rain is created by the cycle of condensation and evaopration, as it moves within jetstream.
people place magickal qualities on the moon and sun, on the oceans and on the sky because it is all within the system of our existence.
We place these qualities on these things not because the sun and stars, oceans and moon told us too, but because for us these things hold qualities that we see in ourselves. and using these objects is a metaphore from which we can find these things and work with them within ourselves.
But just because this is a fact within our community doesn't mean that one should be blinded to scientific fact, science doesn't go against the methods of magick it in actuality goes with it.
science is exploration of fact, magick is the exploration of ourselves, we define ourselves by percieving and working with the things around us, so ofcourse there will be magickal qualities placed onto the things in our world.
Ive always considered myself somewhat of a amateur meterologist, i live in Oklahoma City "tornado Alley" and each year i try my best to go Storm Chasing with atlest one of my crazy friends, I love the thrill of it, I love the excitment but just because i enjoy going out and witnessing the strength of mother nature and surviving it doesn't mean that i think that i can control it.
again placing a context on something like the moon being a representation of Diana only gives me a method of manifesting diana within my own existence it doe'snt literally mean that the moon is diana.

[mtpathy]

I understood what you were saying about feeling the weather and being able to predict it. I've done that for most of my life, can remember standing on the front porch as a child and looking at the sky and knowing whether it would storm, can remember waking up in the morning and knowing it was going to snow that day. That has nothing to do with feeling an emotion, internally or externally (although I am also Empathic). I don't ascribe emotions to the weather that aren't (generally) there to begin with.

But I also learned to manipulate energy as well as to feel it, I've been doing psychic or energy healing for 16 years now. And what is a storm composed of? Energy of course. I do find it easier to connect with the energy of storms and to manipulate that kind of energy than fog or snow or clouds. Some forms of energy are more dense than others, taking the physical shape of a person or a tree or a rock. Some are less dense, taking the form of a lake or river or fog - or a storm. But they are all energy and energy can be manipulated.

predicting weather by the subtle changes of the world around you is one point that i've been stressing, but the other point is simply that weather magick isn't about a literal manipulation of weather as much as its a method of ridding the experience one takes the time to witness, aka: shapeshifting. this imo is the ONLY method of weather magick, as the physical manifestation of weather itself cannot be manipulated. but the mental and etheric "the imagination" can gain a seat within the experience thats being percieved and felt, therby ridden. by using the handlebars of the emtions that are felt by seeing and experiencing the storm it can be manipulated in more subtle ways.

[CzechWoods]

the jet stream is created by the rotation of the planet on its axis as well as "i think" the cycle of the moon, low high tide of the ocean.
rain is created by the cycle of condensation and evaopration, as it moves within jetstream.
people place magickal qualities on the moon and sun, on the oceans and on the sky because it is all within the system of our existence.
We place these qualities on these things not because the sun and stars, oceans and moon told us too, but because for us these things hold qualities that we see in ourselves. and using these objects is a metaphore from which we can find these things and work with them within ourselves.
But just because this is a fact within our community doesn't mean that one should be blinded to scientific fact, science doesn't go against the methods of magick it in actuality goes with it.
science is exploration of fact, magick is the exploration of ourselves, we define ourselves by percieving and working with the things around us, so ofcourse there will be magickal qualities placed onto the things in our world.
Ive always considered myself somewhat of a amateur meterologist, i live in Oklahoma City "tornado Alley" and each year i try my best to go Storm Chasing with atlest one of my crazy friends, I love the thrill of it, I love the excitment but just because i enjoy going out and witnessing the strength of mother nature and surviving it doesn't mean that i think that i can control it.
again placing a context on something like the moon being a representation of Diana only gives me a method of manifesting diana within my own existence it doe'snt literally mean that the moon is diana.

please refrain from the generalisation in your posts. the WE implies, that everybody works the way you assume

but there is no we between us.

yours+you and mine+me are not we
never were
never will be

stop insulting me and mine
by limiting us to your own chosen limited world and its perception of it

its fine you dont want to understand

but stop your generalization as if your pov was the generally true

it wasnt
isnt and
never will be

[mtpathy]

please refrain from the generalisation in your posts. the WE implies, that everybody works the way you assume

but there is no we between us.

yours+you and mine+me are not we
never were
never will be

stop insulting me and mine
by limiting us to your own chosen limited world and its perception of it

its fine you dont want to understand

but stop your generalization as if your pov was the generally true

it wasnt
isnt and
never will be

lol and here i thought that we could have a intelligent conversation without mudslinging and insults..
shame on me

[CzechWoods]

lol and here i thought that we could have a intelligent conversation without mudslinging and insults..
shame on me

amen to that

[mtpathy]

i agree.
know mother earth and her signs, so you may be able to understand the weather situations.


here i have to disagree. manipulating the weather IS possible, doable BUT not recommendable.

the karmic aftremath/responsibility can come and kick your butt pretty heavily, in fact. one needs to understand, that despite this being tempting, and even though your intentions may be the most altruistic ones, such a weather manipulation does have loads of effects and side effects you no zilch about in advance nor while the manipulation succeeds, nor what is yet to come

Originally Posted by mtpathy
but that does not mean
that one cannot learn to "be" the weather, what is summer turning into fall
without the trees going bare and colored leafs blowing in circles and swirls?
if you can imagine and see it, you can place yourself within its moment and
ride it.


here i agree. again. wholeheartedly

Originally Posted by mtpathy
the jet stream is created by the rotation of the planet on its axis as well as "i think" the cycle of the moon, low high tide of the ocean.
rain is created by the cycle of condensation and evaopration, as it moves within jetstream.
people place magickal qualities on the moon and sun, on the oceans and on the sky because it is all within the system of our existence.
We place these qualities on these things not because the sun and stars, oceans and moon told us too, but because for us these things hold qualities that we see in ourselves. and using these objects is a metaphore from which we can find these things and work with them within ourselves.
But just because this is a fact within our community doesn't mean that one should be blinded to scientific fact, science doesn't go against the methods of magick it in actuality goes with it.
science is exploration of fact, magick is the exploration of ourselves, we define ourselves by percieving and working with the things around us, so ofcourse there will be magickal qualities placed onto the things in our world.
Ive always considered myself somewhat of a amateur meterologist, i live in Oklahoma City "tornado Alley" and each year i try my best to go Storm Chasing with atlest one of my crazy friends, I love the thrill of it, I love the excitment but just because i enjoy going out and witnessing the strength of mother nature and surviving it doesn't mean that i think that i can control it.
again placing a context on something like the moon being a representation of Diana only gives me a method of manifesting diana within my own existence it doe'snt literally mean that the moon is diana.


please refrain from the generalisation in your posts. the WE implies, that everybody works the way you assume

but there is no we between us.

yours+you and mine+me are not we
never were
never will be

stop insulting me and mine
by limiting us to your own chosen limited world and its perception of it

its fine you dont want to understand

but stop your generalization as if your pov was the generally true

it wasnt
isnt and
never will be

Your contradiction yourself you agree with my perceptions to the point of being able to "ride" the weather, the experience of being witness to the weather around you is the method from which one would use to ride it.
and yet your disagreeing with methodology of how one would place the experience within a context to "grab hold and ride" within the imagination.
these two things are one and the same, ofcourse there are 100's of different ways for one to define there experience and "ride" there storm i don't pretend to speak for everyone i only speak of MY experience in it, and this is something that i thought was assumed.
but unfortunatley this still doesn't solidify the explanation of why one would think that manipulating literal weather is possible, however you have agreed with me that manipulating the element/vibration is possible through the means of the mind and imagination which is a start.

[Lunacie]

predicting weather by the subtle changes of the world around you is one point that i've been stressing, but the other point is simply that weather magick isn't about a literal manipulation of weather as much as its a method of ridding the experience one takes the time to witness, aka: shapeshifting. this imo is the ONLY method of weather magick, as the physical manifestation of weather itself cannot be manipulated. but the mental and etheric "the imagination" can gain a seat within the experience thats being percieved and felt, therby ridden. by using the handlebars of the emtions that are felt by seeing and experiencing the storm it can be manipulated in more subtle ways.

You can be subtle with a well-trained horse that's used to being ridden, but when you get on a mustang that hasn't been broken - subtle just ain't going to do it.

[Sequoia]

Of course you can sense and predict weather. Ever lived with someone who had Arthritis? You know at least a week before the weather people when a storm is fixing to come in. :hahugh:

As to whether or not it is possible to manipulate the weather... Well, it's something that's difficult to judge. In some cases it could easily be coincidence. In others, it may be more blatent. It's hard to find a true yes-or-no.

The thing is, though, that if you're messing with something as HUGE as weather, you have to realize the implications. If you move a storm from your area, it may go on to flood another. Or you may begin a drought. Or a hundred other things may happen because that rain is not in your area.

Nature pretty much has her own wisdom. She knows where to send the rain, where to send the heat. We may not personally like or understand her patterns, but they're mostly there for a reason. IMO.

[mtpathy]

You can be subtle with a well-trained horse that's used to being ridden, but when you get on a mustang that hasn't been broken - subtle just ain't going to do it.

When a line of smoke rises in a still room from a stick of incense sitting in the cauldron, there is a point where the smoke rises straight up. then there is a point where the smoke starts rippling off in abstract whisps of smoke.
one can literally change the direction of the smoke by fanning there hand at it, or by blowing on it, or by unsettling the air around it by getting up and walking towards, away, or around the smoke.
Now sitting quietly and looking at the point from which the smoke stream stops rising straight and starts rippling one can imagine and therby see all sorts of things take shape within the smoke, this is also a way of unsettling the smoke but not literal as much as figurativley, by looking into the smoke one finds the mind and imagination associates abstract forms with physical manifestation to bring about images or memories.
Now i can understand how one would "tap into" the vibration of a storm, but that only changes its form as its being associated to memory and experience that doesnt literally change the storm.
how would one " unsettle" the air around a storm to such a degree to literally change its direction?

[Lunacie]

how would one " unsettle" the air around a storm to such a degree to literally change its direction?

Like I said already, by INTENT mostly. The same way you do any kind of magical working. The intention can be focused on changing something physically, on changing the way we think about or deal with something mentally, and similarly the way we can work with energies to cause change magically.

I've had fibromyalgia for years and had a ruptured disk in my lower back... there was a period of several years when I literally had to think about my intention to move my body, especially to make my body sit up in bed in the morning.

There came a time when I realized that I was getting upset about all kinds of things and I literally had to "talk to myself" about whether this problem or that issue was worth putting out the effort to change or not.

Before I learned to sense the energy that is present in everything - including me - I would not have believed that I could send healing energies to a friend who was a few miles away, I would not have believed that I could look into my ex's past and see visions of places he had been and people he had known, I would not have believed that I could give accurate readings with the tarot cards and the rune stones, and I would not have believed that I could reach out and touch a storm and make it grow stronger or weaker or change directions.

I'm sorry if that isn't explanation enough for you. It's something you really have to prove to yourself.

[~Elise~]

ya know--some of my weather workings have been tracked on weather radar--don't know how much more real you can get than that.

Elise

[Sequoia]

ya know--some of my weather workings have been tracked on weather radar--don't know how much more real you can get than that.

Elise

Folks are probably going to ask you for printouts of the radar.

I figure that anything to do with the weather is fleeting and personal. There can be proof, but there usually isn't. Sometimes what happens is imagined, sometimes something seems to happen. It's one of those things that comes down to personal experience.

[Lunacie]

I believe mtpathy is saying that you (we) were predicting what the storms would do rather than manipulating what they were doing.

[Sequoia]

I believe mtpathy is saying that you (we) were predicting what the storms would do rather than manipulating what they were doing.


Didn't she say that there was a break in the rain only over her car and her yard?

Helluva thing to predict! Miniaturized High Pressure over Elise!

[~Elise~]

okay then--can't help him out other than to have him watch Tulsa area radar sometime -

Elise

[~Elise~]

Didn't she say that there was a break in the rain only over her car and her yard?

Helluva thing to predict! Miniaturized High Pressure over Elise!

LOL--Sequoia--ya crack me up. Some peoples minds are made up already--it's alright. This too shall pass.

I guess I could have the witnesses swear out affidavits--but to be honest... I don't care. I know what I've done, as do others.

Elise

[CzechWoods]

i dont care either. i have said all there has been to say

if someone tries to MANIPULATE my posts into something to please their ego, i cant help them

i can call them out to stop being insulting to me and mine, not that they would listen, but some things need be said.

however you choose to masturbate yourself with my posts, mtpathy, is none of my business,.

eta: yet respect my copyrights

[Shadow Dreamer]

Interesting discussion....I think I'd like to put my 2 cent's worth in too....first, though, allow me to clarify some things from my point of view.
1. Energy is energy. It doesn't matter if it's the physical energy associated with the wind that knocks the leaf off of the tree, it is still energy (scientist would call it kinetic energy, or the energy of movement).
a. There are may different forms of energy, depending on what you believe. There can be mental or sometimes called ethereal energy, kinetic energy, heat, light, etc. point is, that there is a lot more energy than any of us are truely willing to admit exists. The amounts of energy just floating free are absolutely mind boggling.
b. Science has taught us the first rule of physics; "Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be changed from one form to another." In a scientifically perfect universe, the transformation of energy would be without some form of loss, yet we don't live in a scientifically perfect universe, so we have losses in the transformation of energy. The most common one is friction, causing heat, a by-product of the use of kinetic energy when rubbing 2 objects together.
c. There are those in the world who can see many types of energy, feel them and manipulate them to some degree or another. Some it may be no more than they can see with their 5 physical senses, others with their metaphysical senses.

2. The manipulation of energy requires the intent, and input (be it physical, mental, or verbal) of the one attempting to influence the energy.

3. Storms are made up of energy currents. These currents manifest them in the form of wind, temperature sinks, thermal pockets, etc. All of the physical energies in a storm are measurable by scientific equipment.

Ok...on to my point. If the above statements are accepted as true, wouldn't it stand to reason that someone could affect the energies in a storm, or the weather in general?

It could be nothing more than re-directing some of the energies to ground (as most electricians do in a fault situation....yes, I do know what I'm talking about here).

I am more than open to discussing my position on this one...any takers?

~SD

[ModernKnight]

Now i can understand how one would "tap into" the vibration of a storm, but that only changes its form as its being associated to memory and experience that doesnt literally change the storm.
how would one " unsettle" the air around a storm to such a degree to literally change its direction?

Telekinesis.

[Lunacie]

"Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be changed from one form to another."


There ya go then. I can't create a draft in my living room unless there is a window open or a fan running. The kinetic (thank you for reminding us of that word) energy must already be present for me to change it somehow. It is much harder to put something into motion than it is to change the motion; i.e. speed it up, slow it down, or change the direction.

With a storm there is a LOT of kinetic already being very busy, so it's not that hard to change it to be less busy, or more busy, or busy in a different way. The same way it's much easier to draw rain from a sky that has moisture already present than from an atmosphere where there is little humidity present.



Telekinesis.


Telekinesis (also known as psychokinesis) = working with kinetic energy, the influence of mind upon matter... that makes sense. And here I've been thinking I was a failure at doing telekinesis because I can't levitate a pencil. But if that pencil was in motion, rolling slowly across a surface, I'll bet I could speed it up or slow it down or something like that. Cool. :)

[TheWomanMonster]

Pretty much how it works with me too.
I add power/energy to it, or take power/energy from it, spin it, change it's direction...
certain things take more effort than others,
and I'm still not sure HOW I do it.
*laughs*

[mtpathy]

Interesting discussion....I think I'd like to put my 2 cent's worth in too....first, though, allow me to clarify some things from my point of view.
1. Energy is energy. It doesn't matter if it's the physical energy associated with the wind that knocks the leaf off of the tree, it is still energy (scientist would call it kinetic energy, or the energy of movement).
a. There are may different forms of energy, depending on what you believe. There can be mental or sometimes called ethereal energy, kinetic energy, heat, light, etc. point is, that there is a lot more energy than any of us are truely willing to admit exists. The amounts of energy just floating free are absolutely mind boggling.
b. Science has taught us the first rule of physics; "Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It can only be changed from one form to another." In a scientifically perfect universe, the transformation of energy would be without some form of loss, yet we don't live in a scientifically perfect universe, so we have losses in the transformation of energy. The most common one is friction, causing heat, a by-product of the use of kinetic energy when rubbing 2 objects together.
c. There are those in the world who can see many types of energy, feel them and manipulate them to some degree or another. Some it may be no more than they can see with their 5 physical senses, others with their metaphysical senses.

2. The manipulation of energy requires the intent, and input (be it physical, mental, or verbal) of the one attempting to influence the energy.

3. Storms are made up of energy currents. These currents manifest them in the form of wind, temperature sinks, thermal pockets, etc. All of the physical energies in a storm are measurable by scientific equipment.

Ok...on to my point. If the above statements are accepted as true, wouldn't it stand to reason that someone could affect the energies in a storm, or the weather in general?

It could be nothing more than re-directing some of the energies to ground (as most electricians do in a fault situation....yes, I do know what I'm talking about here).

I am more than open to discussing my position on this one...any takers?

~SD

Within all of my posts within this perticular thread i only stated that a storm itself couldnt be manipulated, not that the vibration of the storm couldnt be manipulated. the issue im having with this is why does it seem to be common knowledge that form follows vibration, that if one manipulates the vibration of something; that its automaticly assumed that the form from which the vibration is attached too will also be manipulated and changed.
There are simply to many variables for something like this to take place, there are meterologists who study diagrams of the changing jetstreams for years to find repeating patterns in why spacific areas are more likely to have tornados and other areas are more likely to have droughts or hurricans, scientists still aren't completely sure how a hurrican is created, and in many shows and books ive read on meterology there still not completely sure what creates a jetstream.
for someone to simply state that they can change the weather, what are they actually changing as the weather is only a single part of a whole ecosystem, are they saying they can change the direction of the wind, are they saying that they can change moisture in the air, are they saying that they can change the directions of the jetstreams overhead, or are they saying that they are predicting storms coming or going by observing the environment around them.

[ModernKnight]

for someone to simply state that they can change the weather, what are they actually changing as the weather is only a single part of a whole ecosystem, are they saying they can change the direction of the wind, are they saying that they can change moisture in the air, are they saying that they can change the directions of the jetstreams overhead, or are they saying that they are predicting storms coming or going by observing the environment around them.

For myself, I've started/stopped rain on a cloudy day and I've done quite a bit of playing with ground-level winds. I've had some success moving upper-atmosphere clouds, but for me that takes a LOT of effort.

[Shadow Dreamer]

There ya go then. I can't create a draft in my living room unless there is a window open or a fan running. The kinetic (thank you for reminding us of that word) energy must already be present for me to change it somehow.
Quick note here, no, the energy is present. It's in the form of energy called Potential Energy.


It is much harder to put something into motion than it is to change the motion; i.e. speed it up, slow it down, or change the direction.
"Objects in motion tend to stay in motion. Objects at rest tend to stay at rest"...Physics 101 ca. 1945


With a storm there is a LOT of kinetic already being very busy, so it's not that hard to change it to be less busy, or more busy, or busy in a different way. The same way it's much easier to draw rain from a sky that has moisture already present than from an atmosphere where there is little humidity present.
All of that is true....were we agreeing or disagreeing?


the issue im having with this is why does it seem to be common knowledge that form follows vibration, that if one manipulates the vibration of something; that its automaticly assumed that the form from which the vibration is attached too will also be manipulated and changed....for someone to simply state that they can change the weather, what are they actually changing as the weather is only a single part of a whole ecosystem, are they saying they can change the direction of the wind, are they saying that they can change moisture in the air, are they saying that they can change the directions of the jetstreams overhead, or are they saying that they are predicting storms coming or going by observing the environment around them.

Vibrations are one of the forms of energy that I mentioned. Apparently you are one who can see and manipulate the vibrations. There are those that can't. If you can do this, does it not stand to reason that there are those out there who have the ability to manipulate the physical energies? If not, then what exactly is the working of magic? How is it that we get certain effects from doing certain things? I would tend to say that there are those who have the ability to adjust, change and/or influence the weather around us. Some may do it naturally and not understand exactly what they are doing, some may be forced to use rituals or other methods. Just because metorologists don't understand what causes what doesn't mean that it can't be influenced....here's a though; can you explain 100% exactly how the cruise control on your car works? If you can, great! If you can't, does that mean you are unable to use it, just because you don't understand the mechanics of how it works?

Mtpathy, I'm not trying to be insulting, nor am I trying to belittle you, but I do think you have set a pair of blinders on. You seem to be unwilling to allow that someone has an ability to do something that you can't do, or can't understand how they do it. There are artists out there who can paint, others who can sculpt marble, I can't do either. I've tried painting....if it isn't a wall, well, my kids' finger-paintings look better. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate nor accept that the artists have innate talent and are pretty good.

~SD

[Lunacie]

Quick note here, no, the energy is present. It's in the form of energy called Potential Energy.

Um, yeah, and the possibilities of creation/change are much greater. :)
But if you don't want to create something entirely new it's much easier to tweak the energy that's already in motion.


"Objects in motion tend to stay in motion. Objects at rest tend to stay at rest"...Physics 101 ca. 1945

Yeah, I've heard that before. ;)


All of that is true....were we agreeing or disagreeing?

I can't speak for you, but basically I was agreeing with you. :hahugh:





Vibrations are one of the forms of energy that I mentioned. Apparently you are one who can see and manipulate the vibrations. There are those that can't. If you can do this, does it not stand to reason that there are those out there who have the ability to manipulate the physical energies? If not, then what exactly is the working of magic? How is it that we get certain effects from doing certain things? I would tend to say that there are those who have the ability to adjust, change and/or influence the weather around us. Some may do it naturally and not understand exactly what they are doing, some may be forced to use rituals or other methods. Just because metorologists don't understand what causes what doesn't mean that it can't be influenced....here's a though; can you explain 100% exactly how the cruise control on your car works? If you can, great! If you can't, does that mean you are unable to use it, just because you don't understand the mechanics of how it works?


~SD

Good, you responded to mtpathy's last post and saved me the trouble. We're still on the same page here. Energy vibrates, that's what it does. Like I said before, when it vibrates at different speeds we get different effects. When I'm healing someone I'm basically speeding up the vibrations - I've never really thought about that before though. Healing a child's broken arm is easier than healing an older person's broken foot - because the child's energy is faster and not set into a rigid pattern, an older person's energy is slower and takes longer to change. My favorite method of disrupting a tornadic vortex is to apply a spin in the opposite direction to slow it down. I know someone else who prefers to insert a wedge to block the rotation of the energy.

[Shadow Dreamer]

I can't speak for you, but basically I was agreeing with you.
:hahugh:
Good, you responded to mtpathy's last post and saved me the trouble. We're still on the same page here. Energy vibrates, that's what it does. Like I said before, when it vibrates at different speeds we get different effects. When I'm healing someone I'm basically speeding up the vibrations - I've never really thought about that before though. Healing a child's broken arm is easier than healing an older person's broken foot - because the child's energy is faster and not set into a rigid pattern, an older person's energy is slower and takes longer to change. My favorite method of disrupting a tornadic vortex is to apply a spin in the opposite direction to slow it down. I know someone else who prefers to insert a wedge to block the rotation of the energy.

Ok...wasn't sure if I was defending or supporting...lol. How's the weather at your end of the net, L? (<-- :fpoke: )

j/k

~SD

[Lunacie]

Very windy here yesterday as a cold front blew in from the north. Quite chilly today but little wind. Nothing to get my knickers in a twist about. And at your end? :chatty:

[mtpathy]

[QUOTE=Shadow Dreamer;2872461Vibrations are one of the forms of energy that I mentioned. Apparently you are one who can see and manipulate the vibrations. There are those that can't. If you can do this, does it not stand to reason that there are those out there who have the ability to manipulate the physical energies? If not, then what exactly is the working of magic? How is it that we get certain effects from doing certain things? I would tend to say that there are those who have the ability to adjust, change and/or influence the weather around us. Some may do it naturally and not understand exactly what they are doing, some may be forced to use rituals or other methods. Just because metorologists don't understand what causes what doesn't mean that it can't be influenced....here's a though; can you explain 100% exactly how the cruise control on your car works? If you can, great! If you can't, does that mean you are unable to use it, just because you don't understand the mechanics of how it works?

Mtpathy, I'm not trying to be insulting, nor am I trying to belittle you, but I do think you have set a pair of blinders on. You seem to be unwilling to allow that someone has an ability to do something that you can't do, or can't understand how they do it. There are artists out there who can paint, others who can sculpt marble, I can't do either. I've tried painting....if it isn't a wall, well, my kids' finger-paintings look better. That doesn't mean that I don't appreciate nor accept that the artists have innate talent and are pretty good.

~SD[/QUOTE]

Just because someone chooses to argue the side that isnt accepted as being correct doesnt mean that i dont agree with the side that im arguing against, only that both sides of a argument need to be filled out in order for there to actually be something to talk about, perhaps both sides can gain a better perspective of how they go about doing this when there is opposition arguing against there techniques or practices.
Within this perticular case there are things that we all have agreed upon, and there are things that we dont agree upon, wasn't this forum concieved with just such notions as people discussing there beliefs and ideas and by others opinions perhaps opening themselves up to something new that they might not have thought about otherwise?
Using the cute little buzz word of someone being closed minded is used way to conveniently now days, what is being closed minded, is it agreeing with all of those around you so that you can fit into the crowd, or is it making up your own mind and deciding for yourself, most times when i read about someone calling another person closed minded it is because that person isnt agreeing with the other persons ideas or beliefs, other times that term is used when someone is posting nothing but flames and degrading anothers belief, i am not degrading anothers belief or practices but i have been flamed in this perticular thread instead. should i believe in everything that someone tells me, should i take everyone at face value without having my own opinions, this isnt being open minded this is being gullable.
I believe that the term magick has been painted with too broad of strokes for too long of a time, it has now started taking upon hollywood ideas of the blantent instead of the subtle, it has in my opinion started turning itself inside out, now everyone thinks that they can manipulate the literal with a few words and lighting a candle, instead of learning to focus inwards and change themselves to in turn change the world around them.

[Shadow Dreamer]

Just because someone chooses to argue the side that isnt accepted as being correct doesnt mean that i dont agree with the side that im arguing against, only that both sides of a argument need to be filled out in order for there to actually be something to talk about, perhaps both sides can gain a better perspective of how they go about doing this when there is opposition arguing against there techniques or practices.
Fair enough. I haven't really participated in this area (Magic and Rituals) all that much, since I don't like to share my secrets all that much...so I can understand your point here, and it is well taken.

Within this perticular case there are things that we all have agreed upon, and there are things that we dont agree upon, wasn't this forum concieved with just such notions as people discussing there beliefs and ideas and by others opinions perhaps opening themselves up to something new that they might not have thought about otherwise?
Again, fair enough.

Using the cute little buzz word of someone being closed minded is used way to conveniently now days, what is being closed minded, is it agreeing with all of those around you so that you can fit into the crowd, or is it making up your own mind and deciding for yourself, most times when i read about someone calling another person closed minded it is because that person isnt agreeing with the other persons ideas or beliefs, other times that term is used when someone is posting nothing but flames and degrading anothers belief, i am not degrading anothers belief or practices
I think that should be in a different thread, and I would be more than willing to debate that issue with you. I may have been misinturpreting your posts (it's so hard to get everything out of a conversation that is only typed, without the benefit of the voice and facial expressions!!!). It was my understanding that you were saying that it was completely impossible to manipulate the weather. I can't do it, but I have seen situations where it has been done.

but i have been flamed in this perticular thread instead. should i believe in everything that someone tells me, should i take everyone at face value without having my own opinions, this isnt being open minded this is being gullable.
If you feel that I have been flaming you, I appologize. That was not my intent. I was actually more interested in the conversation. I beg you to please accept this most sincere appology.

I believe that the term magick has been painted with too broad of strokes for too long of a time, it has now started taking upon hollywood ideas of the blantent instead of the subtle, it has in my opinion started turning itself inside out, now everyone thinks that they can manipulate the literal with a few words and lighting a candle, instead of learning to focus inwards and change themselves to in turn change the world around them.
Again, I agree, with exception. The people that I have observed manipulate the weather were Native American shamans. The one was so old, his skin looked like wrinkled old brown leather, and his hair hung well down his back, stark as fresh snow. Magic, in my opinion isn't a child's toy as many seem to think it is (see the example of other threads, one wishing to contact the Grim Reaper, the other wishing to influence people to get their own way). It is something that takes years of study, practice, and understanding to truely affect things to get the proper effects. I think this is where the differences in paths cross and diverge.

Thank you for the discussion, though!

~SD

[mtpathy]

Fair enough. I haven't really participated in this area (Magic and Rituals) all that much, since I don't like to share my secrets all that much...so I can understand your point here, and it is well taken.

Again, fair enough.

[QUOTE=Shadow Dreamer;2872974]I think that should be in a different thread, and I would be more than willing to debate that issue with you. I may have been misinturpreting your posts (it's so hard to get everything out of a conversation that is only typed, without the benefit of the voice and facial expressions!!!). It was my understanding that you were saying that it was completely impossible to manipulate the weather. I can't do it, but I have seen situations where it has been done.
i completely agree, it can be very hard to convey a persons attitude within a post, most times i try to throw jokes in here or there or " :) " to let people know not to take me too seriously.
i'd be more then happy to argue this point with you.


If you feel that I have been flaming you, I appologize. That was not my intent. I was actually more interested in the conversation. I beg you to please accept this most sincere appology.
nope doesnt have anything to do with you, read through the thread its pretty blantent.


Again, I agree, with exception. The people that I have observed manipulate the weather were Native American shamans. The one was so old, his skin looked like wrinkled old brown leather, and his hair hung well down his back, stark as fresh snow. Magic, in my opinion isn't a child's toy as many seem to think it is (see the example of other threads, one wishing to contact the Grim Reaper, the other wishing to influence people to get their own way). It is something that takes years of study, practice, and understanding to truely affect things to get the proper effects. I think this is where the differences in paths cross and diverge.

Thank you for the discussion, though!

~SD

completely agree, there are ofcourse always extenuating circumstances that may make things like this plausable and if something like this would be plausable i believe it would be those that have studied in the art of animism that would be the exception to this rule.
however those that worship in animism do not believe that it is them that are doing the change of the weather but there god hearing them, and understanding there need for this to take place, this is as well where i have made repeated remarks of using shapeshifting in such a way as to gain perspective of the outside elements to make both inward and outward changes in ones environment but it doesn't seem that anyone either understood my meaning or i didnt convey it in such a way for people to understand what i was saying.
within this thread nothing was spoken of calling upon a god to appease to there nature only that the person themself can change the weather.
might be minor difference but its still a difference that hasnt been said or explained.

[Lunacie]

I believe flaming or baiting is against the rules here. If you feel you've been flamed, the site god wants you to click the report button rather than derailing a thread with accusations.

Now that you bring up the concept of animism or calling on the gods to change the weather, there are plenty of historical tales of such being done, but neither of those is what I'm doing when I'm weather witching.

[mtpathy]

I believe flaming or baiting is against the rules here. If you feel you've been flamed, the site god wants you to click the report button rather than derailing a thread with accusations..

nope im not the type of person thats going to just go around and cry foul everytime something happens that i dont agree with, i work everyday in a environment where i have many enemies i dont have a single problem manuevring around them, the whole attige of keep your friends close and your enemies closer is true as you already know the intentions of your enemies which makes them more predictable.


Now that you bring up the concept of animism or calling on the gods to change the weather, there are plenty of historical tales of such being done, but neither of those is what I'm doing when I'm weather witching.

Animism is a tricky concept as the very nature of it is a contradiction to itself, within the practice a person experiences the environment "wind, butterfly, floating clouds" to use as a vehicle to explore themselves.
but what is self, how can this be defined without first looking to your surroundings and saying " i am " my experiences in my life, so in the same premise if one can grab hold and use the environment in such a way wouldnt it be plausable that the environment itself could be manipulated.
I think that this is a logical "within occult understanding" explanation of how one might go about changing there environment, but also in this way it would also bring about a deep seated respect for the environment which completely detracts from the point of view of someone manipulating weather because of thinking there area has to much rain, or because they didnt want to scrap ice off of there windshield.
this is why i was saying that just because im arguing a point doesnt mean that i dont disagree or agree with it.

[Athena-Nadine]

2. Debate the idea, don't attack the poster.
Calling someone "neocon filth" /"Liberal traitor" /"Fluffybunny" /"idiot" /"dumbass" /"moron" /"crackpot" / "conservative arsehole" /"big loser," actually, any name-calling whatsoever is not a refutation of an idea, it's a verbal (yah, yah...typed, written, etc) attack of another member of this community and it will not be tolerated. Notice that we are talking about verbal attacks between members. You are free to call, for example, George Bush...a big loser, until the time comes when Mr. Bush joins the community. Then he must be respected like every other member. Also, no condescending stuff. Calling someone sweetypie, honeybunch, hun, missy, might just be the way you talk, but it can also imply a condescending tone. We have no way of knowing which way you are using the term...so if you are addressing someone directly, just use their username.

This is a general warning. Keep this civil.

[Shadow Dreamer]

.....until the time comes when Mr. Bush joins the community. Then he must be respected like every other member.

uhmmmmm......if that happens, I think we just might want to reconsider our options.... j/k

SD

[CzechWoods]

uhmmmmm......if that happens, I think we just might want to reconsider our options.... j/k

SD

:alol:

_inabox_ before the cia gets me

[BlueEyedWolf]

:alol:

_inabox_ before the cia gets me
:yayah: :rollingla :yikess: ...._inabox_

[Kate25]

I used to do a lot of weather manipulation when I was younger. I stopped screwing around with it after the weatherman broke down on the air and cried. Poor guy....

[~Elise~]

I used to do a lot of weather manipulation when I was younger. I stopped screwing around with it after the weatherman broke down on the air and cried. Poor guy....

Now THAT'S a goal to achieve... hmmmmmmmmmmmm _inabox_

Elise

[CzechWoods]

Now THAT'S a goal to achieve... hmmmmmmmmmmmm _inabox_

Elise


well, to make a guy poor and crying, just get his credit card and wallet


:idea: :boing: _inabox_

[Cindlady2]

LOL.... that would do it.

But, what happened to the topic?

Personally I think it's Ok to manipulate the weather if it's done responsibly. The biggest danger is in learning how. So much can go wrong when people are just learning. However some people just have a knack for it.

[SammieAnn]

I think it is possible to manipulate weather.

[CzechWoods]

I think it is possible to manipulate weather.

thats cause :yourock: :cheers:

[SammieAnn]

thats cause :yourock: :cheers:

thank you, so do you.




Osean
believes its possible because when she was younger and not so wise used to play with the wind and lightning.

[Lunacie]

thank you, so do you.




Osean
believes its possible because when she was younger and not so wise used to play with the wind and lightning.

Wisdom is learned by our failures as well as our successes, eh? ;)

[TheWomanMonster]

Wow, so I guess it's much more common than I realized.
Sounds like a lot of you have had at least a few experiences with weather manipulation.
:) I'm not a total freak. :boing:

The one friend I showed my ability as a child was frightened of me afterwards, I learned to exercise discretion when revealing certain aspects of myself.

:)

[SammieAnn]

Wisdom is learned by our failures as well as our successes, eh? ;)

That is very true, I learned my lesson about playing with the eliments at a young age.

[CzechWoods]

Wow, so I guess it's much more common than I realized.
Sounds like a lot of you have had at least a few experiences with weather manipulation.
:) I'm not a total freak. :boing:

The one friend I showed my ability as a child was frightened of me afterwards, I learned to exercise discretion when revealing certain aspects of myself.

:)

:cheers: keep silent is one of the 4 main colums of any magic work

[TheWomanMonster]

:cheers: keep silent is one of the 4 main colums of any magic work

Hmm... I'd like to know more about magical workings.
Maybe soon now that my life is my own again.