A little confused.. (CM/Goetia-ish)

[FunkiMonki]

Hi everyone. I've been really busy lately, so haven't been able to post in a while =\. Anyhow, to the point of the post. I'm highly interested in goetia (and evocation in general), and I have read several books, threads, wep pages, articles, etc. on it. I'm currently just in the studying stage, and have no plans to put it into practice just yet.

I'm a student of the Feri Tradition, and I'm really not comfortable with the Judeo-Christian parts of ceremonial magick and goetia at all. They seem to be everywhere, though. From the LBRP to the MPR. I've read that it's recommended to perform the LBRP daily, but I just can't see myself doing that. So, what I'm wondering, is if there are any more (roughly) pagan-friendly equivalents to these/things that can be done in in their place, possibly? Are there any alternatives to CM when it comes to evocation and the like that are effective as well? (I've looked for information on this in several places, for several days.. Haven't found much, which is why I'm posting now =\.)

Thanks for any help/thoughts.

[Amelserru_halqu]

How about the nercronomicon? It's real, honest, there was this crazy Arab guy who mentioned it to Lovecraft and then he decided to make stories about it to fool everyone into thinking it isn't real, damn illuminati...

[Amelserru_halqu]

Ok, looked through some of my stuff, as far as books go there is the necronomicon (which while made up can be effective), I think you could check out chaos magic, I know Liber LUX (it's in Liber Null) has a section on evocation, I think you may be able to use sexual energy to evoke certain things, but I'm not an expert by any means, perhaps a more advanced student of the arcane could assist you better.

[ModernKnight]

The LBRP is just a CM banishing ritual, it's certaintly not required for evocation. CM is completely derived from Kabbalistic practices, and quite frankly it takes a lot of work to get a rite that's functional without being Kabbalistic. In his book "Futhark", Edred Thorsson makes up a "hammer rite" which is essentially the LBRP with a little Nordic flavor. However, I think you'd be better served by simply trying out something different.

Take a look at this website (http://www.molochsorcery.com/Index.html) and see what you think. Moloch knows his stuff.

[RainInanna]

Perhaps I'm confused, but aren't the Goetic invocations specifically drawing on the Judeo-Christian god and mythology you mention you dislike? Isn't many of the lore behind evocation of similar spirits also based on Judeo-Christian myth? It might be difficult to engage in a magical practice if you can't come to terms with a major influence on it... I tend to agree with ModernKnight for that reason.

That said, what goal do you wish to achieve? Maybe there are other forms of evocation or other magical practices better suited to your needs?

[FunkiMonki]

Well, that's why I posted here. I'm looking for a different system, is all. It doesn't necessarily need to work with the Geotic spirits at all. I'm trying to find something different that doesn't necessarily directly involve Judeo-Christian belief in it. As I said, I'm just in the studying stage on all of this. Trying to find the right thing for me. I only went with CM/Goetia as the main example because they're the only things I really know of when it comes to this all.


That said, what goal do you wish to achieve? Maybe there are other forms of evocation or other magical practices better suited to your needs?That's exactly what I'm searching for, really. Different forms of evocation and different magical practices. I'm not comfortable with CM, so I'm looking for something else. I realize that CM

I was raised Christian, and I just don't agree with it in general. Nothing against Christians, it's just not for me.


However, I think you'd be better served by simply trying out something different.ModernKnight, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Trying out something different as in trying to work with CM? Or trying out something different as in looking for something other than CM? And thanks for the link, I'm going to go look at that now.

Thanks for all the help, and sorry if I come across as disrespectful at all. Not too good with words :twitch:.

Edit -- By the way, I guess it's not so much that I'm uncomfortable with working with the Judeo-Christian god, it's just I have trouble with conflicting beliefs. As a Feri student, I do heavily lean towards the Feri pantheon. Yet, the when it comes to the Judeo-Christian god, none are supposed to be held above him. So, it's all just jumbled up in my head right now =P.

[RainInanna]

Ah, I apologize, I misunderstood. I'm not an expert on Feri, but from what I did read, I wonder how evocation fits in? I tend to think of evocation as strictly CM but like I said, maybe someone else knows better. I'm wondering what your hoping to achieve too because maybe there are other options such as invocation, egregore creation as in witchcraft, or psychotherapy.

[Brightshores]

Personally, I know about as much about Feri as I do about CM... which is very, very little. 8O

But, I do know that there are lot of very knowledgeable Feri practictioners here.. and if you post over in the Paths section about it, I'm sure they'll help you out with whatever it is you are looking for.

Good luck in your search!

[ModernKnight]

ModernKnight, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Trying out something different as in trying to work with CM? Or trying out something different as in looking for something other than CM? And thanks for the link, I'm going to go look at that now.

I mean try out a non-CM style of evokation. Take a look at this article (http://www.molochsorcery.com/evocation.html) and see what you think. CM is not the only path that uses evocation, chaos magic, voodoo and other systems use it as well.

[cydira]

I have found that the most effective forms of invocations and banishments are those written by oneself.

The key thing to remember in writing any form of spell or ritual, be it a major rite or some thing small and simple for a daily devotional, is the intent.

For the most part, when I am writing out a ritual, I try to keep the steps simple and the phrasing simple as well.

For some people, using verse for their vocalizations works better then prose. Many people have said that using a verse that rhymes works better, I think it is because it is something that makes memorizing it easier. For myself, I like blank verse, but I also write alot of blank verse poetry.

Prose vocalizations can work well also. Usually, the prose vocalizations are applied in situations where you are working with a group of others and is read in something of a call and response fashion.

Now, for my part, I find that the KISS principle works best here as well. Keep it short and simple. You don't want to have something complicated, because it becomes hard to remember it. While you will want to use notes for a while as it becomes comfortable, you're going to eventually want to focus your attention on other things rather then where you are on the page. If it's too complicated then you're not going to use it.

With using a rite that involves a combination of spoken word and gestures, you have alot of options. You can cue certian gestures for certian words or phrases. You can recite the passage prior to performing the gesture. Or you can attempt to do all at the same time. Again, keeping it simple and short works best. As such, I like to use each method in accordance with the situation that is easiest.

For something very simple and short, like an invocation while lighting a candle, I will state the vocalization as I perform the action. For something more complicated, I then must determine which is more complicated and where my attention is focused. What part of the ritual has more meaning for you? Is it the action or the words? If the action has more meaning, you would generally place it first and then state the words. If the words are more important, state them before the action.

Now, in some situations, you have a series of steps that accompany a given vocalization. This is a situation where you can cue things to certian words or phrases. It also works well when the rite is such where the focus is equally divided between the words and gestures used.

I hope this helps you out.

[SoulFire]

Hi everyone. I've been really busy lately, so haven't been able to post in a while =\. Anyhow, to the point of the post. I'm highly interested in goetia (and evocation in general), and I have read several books, threads, wep pages, articles, etc. on it. I'm currently just in the studying stage, and have no plans to put it into practice just yet.

I'm a student of the Feri Tradition, and I'm really not comfortable with the Judeo-Christian parts of ceremonial magick and goetia at all. They seem to be everywhere, though. From the LBRP to the MPR. I've read that it's recommended to perform the LBRP daily, but I just can't see myself doing that. So, what I'm wondering, is if there are any more (roughly) pagan-friendly equivalents to these/things that can be done in in their place, possibly? Are there any alternatives to CM when it comes to evocation and the like that are effective as well? (I've looked for information on this in several places, for several days.. Haven't found much, which is why I'm posting now =\.)

Thanks for any help/thoughts.

There are several ways the LBRP may be adapted. Here is a "Witches' LBRP (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/bos025.htm)" that is based on the God-forms in Paul Huson's Mastering Witchcraft, which is more compatible with Feri. If you want, you could substitute Krom for Cernunnos, and Mari for Habondia, but it isn't necessary. (Mari and Krom being the outer court names for the Goddess and God in the Feri Tradition.) Alternatively, you could insert the outer court names of the Guardians.
Good luck!

B*B
SoulFire

[ModernKnight]

There's an article about Chaos magic-style evocation here. (http://www.philhine.org.uk/writings/index_e-books.html)