Selling your craft?

[Sage Rainsong]

Okay so I have been reading about this issue and once again I am torn between views (probably because of my gemini rising sign). I know a traditional Alexandrian family who believe that it is wrong to sell your "craft." These people are barely survivng financially and I do mean barely. I can't help but think that even if one read tarot cards a few times a week for a reasonable amount of money they would be just fine. On the other hand I see witches selling useless trinkets for rediculous amounts of money, to the point where witchcraft seems like a cheap gimmick. The best example that I can think of is a certain well known witch (who shall remain nameless) selling a bottle of "genuine witches hair" that will supposedly increase your witch powers. To what point to do you think that one should sell their craft? Is it okay to sell anything and charge what you want, even if it borders on fraud? Can one "sell their craft" within certain limits? If so, what are thoes limits? Should one never accept money for any sort of occult related service?

[Fiamma]

Okay so I ahve been reading about this issue and once again I am torn between views (probably because of my gemini rising sign). I know a traditional Alexandrian family who believe that it is wrong to sell your "craft." These people are barely survivng financially and I do mean barely. I can't help but think that even if one read tarot cards a few times a week for a reasonable amount of money they would be just fine. On the other hand I see witches selling useless trinkets for rediculous amounts of money to the point where witchcraft seems like a cheap gimmick. The best example that I can think of is a certain well known witch (who shall remain nameless) selling a bottle of "genuine witches hair" that will supposedly increase your witch powers. To what point to do you think that one should sell their craft? Is it okay to sell anything and charge what you want, even if it borders on fraud? Can one "sell their craft" within certain limits? If so, what are thoes limits? Should one never accept money for any sort of occult related service?


As I see it, if you want to offer your services for free, that's great. But I think it's perfectly acceptable to make or suppliment your living through your services. It's your time. Your skill. Your materials. Personally, I think that people SHOULD at the very least be paying for materials used. Though, I don't think that the cost of materials should be greatly inflated...$5 or $10 for a candle and some herbs is reasonable...$100 for the same herbs and candle not so much.


Fraud is a completely different story. Fraud is fraud.

There's a big difference between offering say, a fifteen minute tarot card reading for $20, and offering spell casting for outlandish things like winning the three zilion dollar lottery jackpot for $500 (unless you're willing to offer an absolute no-questions-asked money back guarantee...but if that's the core of your business and you do that well...you don't need me to tell you that that's not a very well thought out business plan.)

[Against The Tide]

I believe in energy exchange - Don't get rich of other people with your specialist skills and knowledge but at the same time it is fair to ask for something - a service, a good even money (which is equal to service and money except you can spend it anywhere) to cover your time and effort and a little bit extra in the way of a thank-you.

Here's a bad real life example of selling the craft: My girl friend went to a psychic night at her pub and the tarot reader there was charging £25 a reading.Needless to say not a single person approached her, if she had charged £5 a reading she would have made a small fortune from my girlfriend and her extended familly alone.

Here's a good example: I know complimentry therapist (is that the right way to phrase it?) she charges alot for massage but I asked her if she'd accept a tarot reading instead of money - she was delighted at this and we both came off better from the deal.

[Astara Seague]

Personally I dont charge for my card readings, but I do a exchange sort of thing..this for that etc.. but if I was to charge it would not be to make money, it would be to take care of my 'expenses' like herbs, crystals and whatever else I need for whatever Im doing also my time..
thats just me though
I have to add though I have no respect for those so called Physics or card readers that say ..pay me 100 bucks and Ill do a chart or cast a spell..and the like..

[Fiamma]

I believe in energy exchange - Don't get rich of other people with your specialist skills and knowledge but at the same time it is fair to ask for something - a service, a good even money (which is equal to service and money except you can spend it anywhere) to cover your time and effort and a little bit extra in the way of a thank-you.

Here's a bad real life example of selling the craft: My girl friend went to a psychic night at her pub and the tarot reader there was charging £25 a reading.Needless to say not a single person approached her, if she had charged £5 a reading she would have made a small fortune from my girlfriend and her extended familly alone.

Here's a good example: I know complimentry therapist (is that the right way to phrase it?) she charges alot for massage but I asked her if she'd accept a tarot reading instead of money - she was delighted at this and we both came off better from the deal.


not sure I know what you mean by "complimentary therapist"...but bartering is definitely a good thing if you don't have money but can offer services. I cooked a steak dinner in exchange for my reiki 2 attunement (in that case, I was already making the diner for the folks in my house, and I had one huge steak left over...as it happens, my reiki master LIVES for steak...so it worked out well :-)

[Windsmith]

I love the exchange approach. We struggle with this idea a lot in Reclaiming - just compensation for time and talents vs. commodification of spirituality. A few of our teachers travel all around the country helping lead classes, and they don't ask for anything but airfare and a place to sleep. Others have become full-time teachers in the tradition and expect to be paid, just the same as any other speaker/presenter in any other field. Each Reclaiming community deals with it the way they consider best for them, but it's a continuing (and growing) dilemma within our tradition.

It's been our experience that once you start attaching dollar values to things, people become less invested in the outcome.

We did a weekend-long intensive once. The price was set at $75; at that time I could in no way afford that. The organizers offered to let a couple of us participate in exchange for help designing and distributing publicity materials for the event. I wouldn't presume to say that we got more out of the experience than the people who just wrote a check or handed over some cash, but I do feel, from talking with other participants, that we felt more like we were a part of the workshop than many of the others. Some of them came in with an "I've paid my money, now gimme a spiritual experience, dammit!" My friend and I, because we'd helped bring the workshop to fruition, we were more willing to accept it for whatever it was, without feeling like something specific had to happen for us to "get our money's worth."

[Sage Rainsong]

I love the exchange approach. We struggle with this idea a lot in Reclaiming - just compensation for time and talents vs. commodification of spirituality. A few of our teachers travel all around the country helping lead classes, and they don't ask for anything but airfare and a place to sleep. Others have become full-time teachers in the tradition and expect to be paid, just the same as any other speaker/presenter in any other field. Each Reclaiming community deals with it the way they consider best for them, but it's a continuing (and growing) dilemma within our tradition.

It's been our experience that once you start attaching dollar values to things, people become less invested in the outcome.

We did a weekend-long intensive once. The price was set at $75; at that time I could in no way afford that. The organizers offered to let a couple of us participate in exchange for help designing and distributing publicity materials for the event. I wouldn't presume to say that we got more out of the experience than the people who just wrote a check or handed over some cash, but I do feel, from talking with other participants, that we felt more like we were a part of the workshop than many of the others. Some of them came in with an "I've paid my money, now gimme a spiritual experience, dammit!" My friend and I, because we'd helped bring the workshop to fruition, we were more willing to accept it for whatever it was, without feeling like something specific had to happen for us to "get our money's worth."


Interesting. I have also heard the other side of the argument (just to play devils' advocate). For example my Reiki teacher got her certification at a time when become a master meant that you had to pay A LOT of money. She said that this was done so that they knew that the student was serious and dedicated. I'm sure that they liked the money to lol. Even though they could be scamming her, it does raise an interesting point. The amount of money places a certain value on things. Many people may wonder if something is wrong with your service, if you are not charging a decent amount of money. Also some people may try to take advantage of you. I used to try to read the tarot for free years ago. Let me tell you, since it was free some people absolutely needed a free reading almost every day or their lives would be in utter turmoil. Enough of my rambling. My question is to you, do you think that maybe charging could foster a certain level of respect in many cases? After all the people who paid could have done something else with their disposable income. Also I would like to ask about your views on things like charging money for tarot readings and other methods of "selling the craft".

[Silver Crow2]

You are entitled to make a living from the craft if you are able to.

I personally do not like the exchange thing....I would rather pay the money (why I work hard at my job), and go on about my business.

[Mouse]

I agree with what Fiamma said, for the first question. I couldn't say it better myself.


Interesting. I have also heard the other side of the argument (just to play devils' advocate). For example my Reiki teacher got her certification at a time when become a master meant that you had to pay A LOT of money. She said that this was done so that they knew that the student was serious and dedicated. I'm sure that they liked the money to lol. Even though they could be scamming her, it does raise an interesting point. The amount of money places a certain value on things. Many people may wonder if something is wrong with your service, if you are not charging a decent amount of money. Also some people may try to take advantage of you. I used to try to read the tarot for free years ago. Let me tell you, since it was free some people absolutely needed a free reading almost every day or their lives would be in utter turmoil. Enough of my rambling. My question is to you, do you think that maybe charging could foster a certain level of respect in many cases? After all the people who paid could have done something else with their disposable income. Also I would like to ask about your views on things like charging money for tarot readings and other methods of "selling the craft".


You are right here. I used to do readings charging $5 per question. It was greatin the way that it built my reputation up, but a lot of people wouldn't come to me because I simply didn't charge enough. Several of my customers actually told me this, because they had a lot of doubts in the first place. People were only comming to me when they heard I was good.
Now I charge $30 per reading. I hate it. Honestly, I don't think I should charge that much, but I'll lose my job if I lower my price. With that said, I get a lot of customers, and people assume I must be good and confidant to charge so much. Now they look at me and ask "How old are you? I expected someone a little older..." :lol:

The point of this ramble is yes, price matters. If you put too low a price on your services then generally it says that you don't have confidence in yourself or what you are selling.

[Against The Tide]

To make you feel less guilty about your increase mouse try offering your clientel a little more - maybe a small glass of wine or tea/coffee to relax them (if your readings are say 15-30 mins long) and have a tape recorder handy so you can record your session and allow the client to take the tape home and listen to it again at a later date?

[Tanya]

Things of the spirit shouldn't be sold, but they should be VALUED....thus I am willing to sell poetry to magazines for a contributor's copy or a few bucks (I've never made more than $100 a pop)

It is moral to take money for them, to cover costs and labour,(thus, the effort is valued) it is immoral to try to get rich from them.

I have no time at craft faires and Wiccy festivals for people selling over priced stuff. Yeah I can afford to buy it, but I WON'T.

[wolf]

If you are offering a service or product, you deserve to be fairly compensated. I wouldn't mind working for exchange or barter, but the green pieces of paper fit in my wallet and house much better than chickens, goats, and pannikins of cream.

My landlord and the Discover Card people like that better, too.

[Fiamma]

If you are offering a service or product, you deserve to be fairly compensated. I wouldn't mind working for exchange or barter, but the green pieces of paper fit in my wallet and house much better than chickens, goats, and pannikins of cream.

My landlord and the Discover Card people like that better, too.


yes, but if someone pays you in say, chicken, that's food that you don't have to use the little green things to buy for your family, and therefore can go to the landlord or the fine people at Discover :-)

[Tanya]

When I was making soap, I usually bartered it for things I wanted but couldn't afford, jewlery, pottery, books.... I also bartered for more essential oils and ingredents I couldn't grow

[covenofkeys]

the members and also myself have NEVER taken monies for any service in which we have provided,Craft or Occult, or for our healing products, and we NEVER will.
but to each their own.

[Callatya]

I think you also have to make the distinction between what is 'of the craft' and what is not. Just because a person is of a particular religion does not make everything they touch or create a product of that religion. Not all church fete cupcakes are Christian cupcakes, you know?

If pagans want to knit socks for income, or make bath salts, or create rose clay beads etc, that doesn't automatically make those things pagan socks/salts/beads.

I have a bit of difficulty with people selling magical/spiritual things, only because I feel that the transaction could well blur the intent, making it more of a service than what it was intended to be. If people wish to compensate after the fact, thats less of a problem, but when you go in with the expectation of financial gain, then things get tricky.

If someone wants to make candles or import masses of alter cloths and sell them off at inflated prices in markets that will accept that, that is different. Its not particularly nice, but in general they are luxury items and if sellers want to overprice luxury items, so be it. That is the way the market works, people will only price things that high iof people are willing to pay it. Its not like people can't function without the items in question anyway.

Of course there will always be the suckers who have no idea how things work and assume that you can only function with the right paraphenalia, but they are likely to be of that mindset across the board. Trying to curb the money-grabby mindset of unscrupulous 'new age' sellers is not really going to save them from themselves in other areas of their life.

Maybe we are going about this in reverse, maybe we should be educating the suckers instead of trying to rein in the sellers.

[Amelserru_halqu]

I don't require a thing from my friends of course but others who need my services are obligated to pay a hefty fee. Not money, money is worthless in this game we play, no I require something precious, if it is a minor task I may ask for some herbs or a shiny stone, something you are required to spend time to acquire for me, but for other things, things they can't get any other way, things I would hesitate to do unless they are willing to pay a great price... in that case I must ask for something near and dear to your heart, perhaps some blood, perhaps the sacrifice of something you love, people just don't realize these things are not free, especially not from me.

[Wolfsong]

Everyone has the right to try to sell whatever they like as long as it doesn't break any laws. Whether or not anyone buys it is another thing.

That being said I sell stuff what some may consider spiritual but which in my eyes is more generalized. When it comes to what in my opinion is something truely spiritual and clearly fits another's being I give it away. I would never charge for such an item no matter what the expense was to me for buying it or making it. When something is truely meant for someone I give it to them openly and freely with no strings attached.

[ladyraven]

I think that we shouldn't sell certain types of magic. You shouldn't make someone pay for a healing. Maybe a little bit for a tarot reading, and if you like the darker side, maybe sell those spells, but I wouldn't risk it. I think if you did what someone liked you to and they liked the result, the they should reward you, even if it's just a "thank you".

[pluralone]

So many "should"s and "shouldn't"s!

I focus on what is right for me; I will not judge others for their practices. People see and believe and behave according to what they know for themselves. That means some people are willing to pay for all sorts of things and services, some aren't. Some people charge for things and services; some don't.

Why does it have to become a 'should/shouldn't' issue? How about not only tolerating but celebrating the differences between us?

[Sage Rainsong]

I focus on what is right for me; I will not judge others for their practices. People see and believe and behave according to what they know for themselves. That means some people are willing to pay for all sorts of things and services, some aren't. Some people charge for things and services; some don't.

Ok then, what would be right for you?

[Windsmith]

Interesting. I have also heard the other side of the argument (just to play devils' advocate). For example my Reiki teacher got her certification at a time when become a master meant that you had to pay A LOT of money. She said that this was done so that they knew that the student was serious and dedicated. I'm sure that they liked the money to lol. Even though they could be scamming her, it does raise an interesting point. The amount of money places a certain value on things. Many people may wonder if something is wrong with your service, if you are not charging a decent amount of money. Also some people may try to take advantage of you. I used to try to read the tarot for free years ago. Let me tell you, since it was free some people absolutely needed a free reading almost every day or their lives would be in utter turmoil. Enough of my rambling. My question is to you, do you think that maybe charging could foster a certain level of respect in many cases? After all the people who paid could have done something else with their disposable income. Also I would like to ask about your views on things like charging money for tarot readings and other methods of "selling the craft".OK, before I respond, I should confess that I'm a Socialist at heart (though I'm well aware that it won't work on a large scale), and if I could find a way to completely eliminate those pieces of green paper, I would. Onward...

I see your point, Sage, and if one is trying to make a living off of, say, divination or selling ritual tools, then of course you will need to set prices as you deem appropriate. It's just my own opinion that the respect that would be fostered by charging for "the craft" would be of a kind that I, personally, would reject: if someone thinks my reading is "better" because it's $30 than it was at $5, then that person seems likely to be a status seeker, rather than a spiritual seeker, and therefore not someone whose respect I'm interested in.

In your example about your Reiki teacher, I disagree that having to pay a lot of money doesn't automatically mean you're serious and dedicated. It just means you're rich enough to pay. I am much more serious about and dedicated to my current studies than I was to my undergraduate studies, and they cost easily 4 times as much as what I'm taking now, simply because what I'm doing now matters more to me.

For me, money makes things too easy, especially when talking about matters spiritual. If we say, "This Tarot reading costs $30," or, "Your pledge to the church this year should be $500," or, "A $1000 indulgence buys your loved ones out of Purgatory," then we reduce spirituality and religion to just another consumable, rather than the avenue for self-reflection that it can be. Why examine the patterns of the past to help predict the future? Why volunteer to help build the church's new addition one Saturday a month? Why examine what you consider to be a just and moral life, and then live it? We can just write a check and gain spiritual fulfillment as easily as we would a new pair of shoes. If money does need to be involved, I prefer the kind of sliding scale where the seller says, "I'm going to do the best for you that I can, and you'll pay me what you feel it's worth." Admittedly, some take advantage of this and underpay all the time, because they can, but for many it becomes a rare and refreshing challenge to examine the exchange and really think about how intangible value translates into dollar value.

In the end, people do what serves them best. I have no objections to people selling their craft, but I'm unlikely to buy.

[Tabbykitty]

I don't really have a problem with charging for spells and work done using magic because well, where I come from its a common thing for people to buy talismans and charms when they wanna solve a problem.

I am a big believer in balanced giving and receiving and in receiving what's due to one if one does one's work honestly.

Well, doing magic is work too and it is energetic work. It is a practice among the older generation in my country to give cash or donations for any magic or reading done no matter if the practicioner requests it or not. This is because it is viewed as "just exchange" or a "paying for services rendered". If, because of a reading, the client comes into a lot of cash, but doesn't pay the reader for it. It will be regarded as somehow "draining" the abundance that is due to the reader, denying him the good luck that is supposed to be in the reader's karma or his due.

The client may also fall into the pattern of lack of abundance through greed. Among many local gamblers, it is a practice to give away some of the wealth they won either to the reader or to a charitable cause or in offering to a god because if they dont do it, there is no balanced exchange and the universe somehow denies them abundance and they may not win again... :P

Thus the reader who gives freebies too often then might fall into the karmic cycle of lack of abundance and be denied the things that are his due. In order to prevent that from happening, many readers and clients often stress the importance of maintaining a balanced exchange in terms of value. Both sides know the importance of maintaining that balance.

That's my two cents on it. And yes, I maintain that practice strictly. I have found that when one undervalues one's talents or spells or skills or goods, the universe somehow reflects that back, and no one will value the things that one does.

[thundersdisciple]

I personally think it is fair to ask a fair amount for Wiccan/Witchcraft services. For example I do charge for weddings I perform (ussually most goes to expenses and travel) but I think it is fair to charge a bit to get some extra money.
If you perform a service for people you should be reimbursed in some way, but I do agree that many people over charge for small or even nonsensical things at times just to get a bit of extra cash.

I guess in the end it's all about walking that thin line between reasonable and ridiculous.
Then again it's up to each Witch/Wiccan/Pagan/Etc to make their own ethical descion on charging.

[SoulFire]

I am adamantly opposed to "selling the Craft". The Craft is not a business. I have no problem with Pagans selling their wares (books, handmade incense, oils, and clothing, etc., etc.), or charging for professional Tarot or astrology readings, to earn a living. If someone has chosen to live their life as a Pagan minister, I also have no problem with them asking for modest donations for services such as handfastings and seinings, but the offering should not be obligatory, IMHO. But I absolutely do not believe in charging for Craft training. That is the distinction I make. I've trained and initiated two students myself, and never charged a penny, and never will. My teachers did not charge me either.

P.S. Call me "old-fashioned". ;)

[covenofkeys]

_handclapp absolutely!!!:cheers:

[~Elise~]

I am adamantly opposed to "selling the Craft". The Craft is not a business. I have no problem with Pagans selling their wares (books, handmade incense, oils, and clothing, etc., etc.), or charging for professional Tarot or astrology readings, to earn a living. If someone has chosen to live their life as a Pagan minister, I also have no problem with them asking for modest donations for services such as handfastings and seinings, but the offering should not be obligatory, IMHO. But I absolutely do not believe in charging for Craft training. That is the distinction I make. I've trained and initiated two students myself, and never charged a penny, and never will. My teachers did not charge me either.

P.S. Call me "old-fashioned". ;)

Okay--you're an old-fashion. :lol: Sorry--couldn't resist. :hahugh:

Seriously, I totally agree with all you say. I charge for Tarot and Reiki, etc. (that said, I'm always open to barter but I don't give it away anymore. I've never had it appreciated in the long run) Weddings, rites of passage, etc are by donation.

I do NOT charge for training-except just enough to cover material costs and break even if I'm doing a workshop.

Elise

[Rudas Starblaze]

i thought about selling my body a few times....

but the doctors and scientists said my liver and kidneys are shot and my heart doesnt beat as it is and i just dont know if im cut out for the male prostitution bidness. i do have a few morals.:lol: i spose i could always model.

as for selling the craft... to each there own. but i will charge for something im not gonna mention.:yayah: fortunatly no one has asked me to that for them.

[*Rasenna*]

It's odd, but at the heart of the Craft is the Wheel of the Year, which is all about growth and abundance and return. And yet, there seems to be a resistance to embracing this on both the physical and spiritual level.

What I find ironic is that Christianity is rooted in a rejection of materialism, and yet is very much about the money. While the Craft is rooted in the abundance of Nature, and yet is very much against profit. How odd.

[sanacrow]

It's odd, but at the heart of the Craft is the Wheel of the Year, which is all about growth and abundance and return. And yet, there seems to be a resistance to embracing this on both the physical and spiritual level.

What I find ironic is that Christianity is rooted in a rejection of materialism, and yet is very much about the money. While the Craft is rooted in the abundance of Nature, and yet is very much against profit. How odd.

Not everyone will agree with you on exactly what is at the heart of their Craft. I know the Wheel is not the answer I would give if asked what the heart of *my* Craft is. =)

I don't know about being "against profit", however, my priorities and my values don't put "making a lot of money" near the top of my list. I could make several times my current pay if I had different priorities. I'd rather make 'enough' and have a job that takes my life and preferences into account and allows me the time and energy to do things that *are* high on my priority list.

I don't have a problem with payment for Skill, or for Work. That's very different from payment for Craft. To me it would be like charging my mate for the time I spend with them. Sharing my Craft involves a relationship every bit as intense - and every bit as committed - as the relationship I have with my spouse.

I've heard the "equal exchange" mantra quite a lot... but I don't believe that there *can* be an equivalent in any medium other than trust, honor, and devotion Craft and Tradition.

I pay *my* teachers by cherishing my students and by holding myself and those I teach to the standards they taught me for Craft. "Equivalency" comes in when the student 'pays it forward' for the next generation.

[Ferelwing]

Okay so I have been reading about this issue and once again I am torn between views (probably because of my gemini rising sign). I know a traditional Alexandrian family who believe that it is wrong to sell your "craft." These people are barely survivng financially and I do mean barely. I can't help but think that even if one read tarot cards a few times a week for a reasonable amount of money they would be just fine. On the other hand I see witches selling useless trinkets for rediculous amounts of money, to the point where witchcraft seems like a cheap gimmick. The best example that I can think of is a certain well known witch (who shall remain nameless) selling a bottle of "genuine witches hair" that will supposedly increase your witch powers. To what point to do you think that one should sell their craft? Is it okay to sell anything and charge what you want, even if it borders on fraud? Can one "sell their craft" within certain limits? If so, what are thoes limits? Should one never accept money for any sort of occult related service?

** The Craft as in the training and teachings is not for sale however occult information some people have no problem selling it others do. I for one cannot get behind doing tarot readings for personal gain. I do not have a problem doing it to raise money for causes as long as I personally do not gain anything from it. That however is a personal thing. I have many friends who have never had anything ill come from reading tarot for a little bit of cash.

As for selling the Craft itself ie selling the teaching and training... I do think that is inherently wrong. I do not believe that engenders protection or respect for it. I believe selling the training and teaching actually cheapens the learning and it makes people believe they are entitled to something.

** Li Ferelwing **

[Ferelwing]

Interesting. I have also heard the other side of the argument (just to play devils' advocate). For example my Reiki teacher got her certification at a time when become a master meant that you had to pay A LOT of money. She said that this was done so that they knew that the student was serious and dedicated. I'm sure that they liked the money to lol. Even though they could be scamming her, it does raise an interesting point. The amount of money places a certain value on things. Many people may wonder if something is wrong with your service, if you are not charging a decent amount of money. Also some people may try to take advantage of you. I used to try to read the tarot for free years ago. Let me tell you, since it was free some people absolutely needed a free reading almost every day or their lives would be in utter turmoil. Enough of my rambling. My question is to you, do you think that maybe charging could foster a certain level of respect in many cases? After all the people who paid could have done something else with their disposable income. Also I would like to ask about your views on things like charging money for tarot readings and other methods of "selling the craft".


** In my opinion people often expect something if they pay for it. No matter how many Reiki attunements someone pays for there are many who never get those attunements because they were not ready for them. They cannot however get that money back. From what I understand the first "charge" group in Reiki were considered to be against the Reiki Tradition as a whole. I know that I recieved my 1st and 2nd attunement for free.

** Li Ferelwing **

[Ferelwing]

OK, before I respond, I should confess that I'm a Socialist at heart (though I'm well aware that it won't work on a large scale), and if I could find a way to completely eliminate those pieces of green paper, I would. Onward...

I see your point, Sage, and if one is trying to make a living off of, say, divination or selling ritual tools, then of course you will need to set prices as you deem appropriate. It's just my own opinion that the respect that would be fostered by charging for "the craft" would be of a kind that I, personally, would reject: if someone thinks my reading is "better" because it's $30 than it was at $5, then that person seems likely to be a status seeker, rather than a spiritual seeker, and therefore not someone whose respect I'm interested in.

In your example about your Reiki teacher, I disagree that having to pay a lot of money doesn't automatically mean you're serious and dedicated. It just means you're rich enough to pay. I am much more serious about and dedicated to my current studies than I was to my undergraduate studies, and they cost easily 4 times as much as what I'm taking now, simply because what I'm doing now matters more to me.

For me, money makes things too easy, especially when talking about matters spiritual. If we say, "This Tarot reading costs $30," or, "Your pledge to the church this year should be $500," or, "A $1000 indulgence buys your loved ones out of Purgatory," then we reduce spirituality and religion to just another consumable, rather than the avenue for self-reflection that it can be. Why examine the patterns of the past to help predict the future? Why volunteer to help build the church's new addition one Saturday a month? Why examine what you consider to be a just and moral life, and then live it? We can just write a check and gain spiritual fulfillment as easily as we would a new pair of shoes. If money does need to be involved, I prefer the kind of sliding scale where the seller says, "I'm going to do the best for you that I can, and you'll pay me what you feel it's worth." Admittedly, some take advantage of this and underpay all the time, because they can, but for many it becomes a rare and refreshing challenge to examine the exchange and really think about how intangible value translates into dollar value.

In the end, people do what serves them best. I have no objections to people selling their craft, but I'm unlikely to buy.


** I have to agree with you on this. The amount of money put into it does not really denote the actual worth. I do not believe that training for the Craft should come with a price-tag. Now I don't mind some materials being helped with better yet have the people provide their own... I think charging for things often cheapens the overall meaning. People expect things when money is exchanged and something those things cannot be delivered no matter what price is attached.

This is of course my opinion.

** Li Ferelwing **

[noxtwice]

i believe in two principle i follow:

sell crafts, do not sell the spellcraft

i belive that selling magick cheapens magick, as does speaking of a spell you've cast weakens it... so selling it cheapens and weakens it

i don't see tarot as spellcraft though, it's divination, mediumship, people who aren't witches can perform it to a great degree... sell it... but spells? no.

and, naturally, if you make it by hand, sell the thing!



Okay so I have been reading about this issue and once again I am torn between views (probably because of my gemini rising sign). I know a traditional Alexandrian family who believe that it is wrong to sell your "craft." These people are barely survivng financially and I do mean barely. I can't help but think that even if one read tarot cards a few times a week for a reasonable amount of money they would be just fine. On the other hand I see witches selling useless trinkets for rediculous amounts of money, to the point where witchcraft seems like a cheap gimmick. The best example that I can think of is a certain well known witch (who shall remain nameless) selling a bottle of "genuine witches hair" that will supposedly increase your witch powers. To what point to do you think that one should sell their craft? Is it okay to sell anything and charge what you want, even if it borders on fraud? Can one "sell their craft" within certain limits? If so, what are thoes limits? Should one never accept money for any sort of occult related service?

[Mouse]

people who are not witches can also do spellcraft too though...

[Tabbykitty]

I haven't looked at this thread for quite some time but I see an interesting issue has emerged.

To charge or not to charge for teaching spellcraft stuff?

This is just my personal opinion, but I firmly believe that the practicioner who is teaching should charge for lessons. I once asked a practicioner I was taking lessons from, about this a long time ago.

The answer I got was, by all means, charge for lessons, but do it at a rate that is affordable for the majority of people out there.

I asked... if there was something out there that could really change a person's life, why not spread the information for free?


Now, the thing about people is that, most people only treasure what they have if they have to fight hard to attain it... in other words... if it COSTS them something to get it. Otherwise, it would become either lower in worth or even worthless to them, in their own eyes.

At first I didn't really believe this, but time has taught me otherwise. My first teacher (the one whom I had posed this question to) had many students. Some of them paid in full and others did not. She was a very nice person and worked out some kind of installment scheme for those who had financial difficulties. However, a lot of people took the lessons and never paid a cent. She also never bothered to chase them for the cash because, well, she believed that what goes around comes around and that what was due to her will someday find its way to her.

I recently got together with some of the students to find out how things were going. Not surprisingly, those who did not pay a cent were no longer practicing what they had learnt from her. In their eyes, they were dissatisfied with what they had learnt because they felt that they didn't get what they desired from it. Truth is, many of them did not bother to practice what they were taught, committing it to memory. It was just "too much trouble" for something they paid next to nothing for. And basically they were out again looking for another teacher or practicioner or guru to help them solve their problems, some of them ended up paying truly ridiculous amounts to the other gurus who sometimes come to my country.

However, the few of us who paid up in full, also felt the pinch of it. I mean, if I am gonna invest some of my hard earned cash to learn something, I am going to make sure I truly understand what I am taught and get the most out of it. So I practiced and did my work regularly. It was an uphill struggle and things were tough, but in the end, I got what I was looking for.

I am one of the few of her original students who is still a practicioner and I still correspond with her.

I've been to business seminars and talks and compared to what the speakers at those events are asking for, a few hundred bucks for a few lessons that will change one's life really isn't asking for too much. Think about it, my teacher had to prepare her notes (which consisted of quite a stack) , the materials and other stuff, which do cost something to print and prepare. Also, she had to take time off to teach, time which she could have used to do other work.

The cash paid is not merely compensation for the effort and materials, its also a symbol of my own commitment to the path. Its to put my money/resources where my mouth is... I made an agreement to stay focused... Well, now that I have invested, I damn well have to stay on track till the end. It makes perfect sense this way.

It's like an apprenticeship, the apprentice pays the master to teach him or does things/labour in payment for the knowledge gained. There is nothing unnatural or unprecendented about this.