Herbal discussion -Ethics- open to all- not 4 children

[covenofkeys]

This is a thread that is open to all, where you may discuss the ethics of treatment in herbs, and the herbs themselves which may be dangerous, etc.
however-please remember that this is a forum where the young and vulnerable are free to view, though i place a warning on this particular thread.
so please discuss sensibly and maturely, thankyou.x

so i hand it over now to you all...

[TheWomanMonster]

I personally find it quite interesting that something which is toxic or even deadly in a larger dose can be healing when used appropriately.
But I agree, it has the potential to be very dangerous when abused or misunderstood.

[Amelserru_halqu]

I figure using herbs is like prescribing medication, you have to know how to properly administer them in the proper doses. If you don't know what you are doing then you shouldn't do anything with anything that has the potential to be harmful.

[Brightshores]

I wish the safety information about various herbs was more fully studied and easier to find. Case in point: my husband once tried taking ginseng tablets to increase his energy levels - it gave him really bad heart palpitations. I have yet to see a warning stating that on any bottle, website, or source of information...

Herbs are every bit as powerful as conventional medicines - they should be treated with the same respect, IMHO...

[covenofkeys]

"Herbs should be given the same respect as pharmaceuticals"

[covenofkeys]

WARNING INFORMATION


OK....

It is a common myth that herbs are natural so they are harmless. The truth is that herbs sometimes contain potentially harmful compounds.
Some of the better known herbs with the potential to cause serious harm include foxglove, belladonna, arnica, oleander, jimson weed, poke root, and lobelia.

The most common poisons found in herbs are cardiac glycosides and alkaloids.
Cardiac glycosides slow the heart and strengthen the heartbeat.
This is beneficial for certain people with heart problems such as congestive heart failure.- On the other hand cardiac glycosides can create a serious drop in blood pressure leading to a stroke or stoppage of the heart.

Digitalis, from the foxglove plant, is a common cardiac glycoside used in the treatment of some forms of heart disease. It is a powerful drug that has been used to save countless lives. pets.It has killed numerous people and pets.Every part of the plant is poisonous.
Most people are killed when they use the branches for a hot dog or marshmallow stick, or stir their coffee with a twig. Children are often poisoned from chewing on the leaves or flowers.
Even honey made from the pollen of the plant is poisonous.
Herbs containing cardiac glycosides include foxglove, belladonna, henbane, oleander, lily of the valley, and night blooming cereus (cactus grandiflorus).
The best known alkaloid, and most widely abused drug in the world, is caffeine.
Another well known alkaloid, and dangerous drug, is nicotine found in tobacco and horsetail grass (shavegrass).
This alkaloid is commonly used as an insecticide.
Jimson weed is used rarely as a medicinal herb, and unfortunately sometimes as a recreational drug.
This plant contains 3 very dangerous alkaloids known as:
scopolamine, atropine, and hyocyamine.
be very beneficial Even though alkaloids have the potential to be dangerous, they can also be beneficial.
Alkaloids are the most common active compound in herbs, and the basis for nearly every pharmaceutical drug in existence.
A common question is whether or not herbs can interact with pharmaceuticals. The answer is yes.
Just as pharmaceutical drugs can interact with pharmaceutical drugs, herbs can interact with pharmaceutical drugs, or with other herbs.

This can be dangerous or beneficial depending on how it is used. Herbs can be used to prolong the effects, or enhance the absorption, of pharmaceutical drugs or other herbs.-
Or they can be used to strengthen the effects of pharmaceutical drugs or herbs. Here are some examples:
-Licorice root taken with steroidal drugs, such as cortisone, will strengthen and prolong the effects of the steroidal compounds.
Licorice root can also enhance the absorption of other compounds.

-Echinacea can prolong the excretion time of pharmaceutical drugs and herbs.
This can cause a potential problem if a dangerous drug or herb is being taken on a schedule.
Drug levels in the blood will not have dropped as low as they would have normally before the next dose is taken. This could lead to an excessive buildup of a drug, or herbal compounds, in the blood.
-Hawthorn berry, Siberian ginseng, and plants containing cardiac glycosides will strengthen and prolong the effects of digitalis.

-White willow, meadowsweet, deer's tongue, sweet woodruff, cayenne, ginger root, licorice root, lomatium, sweet clover (meliot), alfalfa, spearmint, peppermint, birch, and wintergreen can increase the blood thinning effects of coumadin and aspirin.
-Licorice root, goldenseal, barberry, and Oregon grape root can accelerate potassium depletion if you are on pharmaceutical diuretics.
-Herbs containing cardiac glycosides, or smooth muscle relaxants may create excessively low blood pressure in people taking high blood pressure medications.
-High tannin containing herbs such as white oak bark, oak galls, manzanita leaf, and uva ursi leaf can combine with medications,and pull them out of the body.
This can be very dangerous if you are on life saving medications.

-Fresh comfrey root and leaf, germander, boneset, nutmeg, and coltsfoot may cause liver damage if used in high doses, or for extended periods of time.
Many pharmaceuticals are well known for causing liver damage, and chemically induced hepatitis.

Examples of these types of drugs include cholesterol lowering drugs, the pain killers ibuprofen.
Taking these herbs with any of these medications can increase the risk for serious liver damage.

Herbs can effect other herbs as well.
This principle is often used to enhance the effectiveness of other herbs.

An example is the combining of yerba mate' with pau d' arco, in South America.
Pau d' arco is a powerful antiviral, though it's effects are enhanced by sulfur compounds.
Yerba mate' is traditionally combined with the pau d' arco to provide the sulfur compounds.
Other herbs can be used to enhance the absorption of other herbs. Yucca root, schisandra berries, licorice root, alfalfa, ginger, cayenne, dandelion leaf, and juniper berries are examples of herbs that enhance absorption, and effectiveness of other herbs.

-Though keep in mind that increased absorption can mean a potential for increased toxicity of certain herbs.
Combining yucca root with poke root provides an example.
Poke root is an immune stimulant, antiviral, and lymphatic cleanser, though it can also be poisonous in relatively small doses.
Mixing yucca root in a formula with poke root, the risk of poisoning increases.
Percentages of toxic herbs can be adjusted to compensate for their enhanced absorption to reduce the possibility of poisoning.

Another example of a danger from mixing herbs can be seen with a mixture of lobelia with ginger. Lobelia is generally safe in small doses.
- Larger doses will normally cause poisoni vomiting which prevents the herb from poisoning the body.
-Ginger prevents the vomiting up of the lobelia,
the lobelia can relax the lungs to the point where a person could stop breathing.
Women who are pregnant should be especially careful when using herbs.
Many herbs are uterine stimulants and may cause the fetus to abort. This is especially dangerous in the later stages of pregnancy when the risk of serious bleeding by the mother is greater.

Herbs may also be used to counteract side effects of other herbs.
For instance a pregnant women can use smooth muscle relaxants such as red raspberry leaf or cramp bark to reduce the risk of spontaneous abortion by other herbs.
High potassium herbs such as dandelion root can reduce the potassium depletion created by licorice root, barberry, goldenseal, and Oregon grape root.

Liver protecting herbs such as milk thistle, turmeric, artichoke leaf, and licorice root can be used to protect the liver from the effects of liver damaging herbs.



Though many herbs considered toxic to the liver, such as comfrey, were found in some studies to only be harmful to the liver when taken in a fresh form. The dried herbs were not found to harm the liver.



It is still recommended that when using herbs that are potentially harmful to the liver, you should combine them with liver protecting herbs.



Herbalists should mix herbs for maximum effectiveness with the minimal chance of adverse side effects.

[CzechWoods]

marking thread for further exploration

excelent info :wave:

[Obsidian Butterfly]

I think that's the most interesting post in this class so far. Thanks for sharing.

I can see how any desperate girl or woman might want to misuse herbs to abort a pregnancy.

And I can't remember where that point was going...urgh, work fries Claire's brain.

[covenofkeys]

Well its all i can find for now, but ill look later, right now im off duty! LOL

[Brightshores]

Thank you so much for posting all that safety information!!

:fpraise: You're the best!

[covenofkeys]

your idea! a great idea!

and Czech Woods likes it!!

[covenofkeys]

FURTHER LINKS
Current safety issues (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=663)
Further safety issues (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=664)
Side effects and interaction with other medicines (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=665)
'Herbal remedies' containing heavy metals (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=666)
Mistaken identity of herbal ingredients (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=667)
Safety issues associated with poor quality (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=668)
Advice to health professionals (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=669)
Prohibited or restricted herbal ingredients (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=670) Medicines (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=27) Herbal and homoeopathic medicines (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=93) Herbal medicines (http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=94)

[Walking Spirit]

Very good information. Thanks.

We bought Fox Glove a couple of years ago for our garden. We bought it not knowing what it was - we like the picture of the flower. It stayed in our garden for two days! Though my cats are not outdoor cats we do have them in our area. And not to mention I have two young children. All I could picture was my son walking into the garden and being a little too curious. Now, I was very upset to read about Lily of the Valley. I had known there was something to watch but never truly knew what it was.

Guess what I am pulling out of the garden in the spring:ugh:

[covenofkeys]

you could always just move those plants elsewhere, and educate your children,about these types of things- but i understand that it does sound a tad scary.There are so many plants that are poisonous, yet you may walk by them everyday some of you, and not even know they are there!
but if you are really concerned, then yes, removal would most probably be the best thing.

[covenofkeys]

Herbs are good medicine. There is no doubt about that fact.
However, there are over 300,000 higher plant species.

This means that even an experienced herbalist can make mistakes.

Example:-
Pregnant women should avoid:
barberry root bark, cascara sagrada, feverfew, juniper berries, mugwort, pennyroyal, poke root, rue, senna, southernwood, tansy, thuja and wormwood.

All of those herbs can increased a risk for miscarriage.

Safe herbs during pregnancy would be:
Manna, Butternut Bark or Root, Flax Seed, Slippery Elm and Lemon Verbena.

Make certain you have the correct diagnosis, for you.
Watch for any allergic reactions. Even though you may have never had any allergies in the past, watch carefully for any adverse reactions.
If you experience difficulty in breathing within 30 minutes of trying a new herb, food or drug, call the hospital immediately.- You may be having an anaphylactic reaction which is the most severe form of allergic reaction. This condition can quickly become fatal unless treated promptly.

This reaction is rare, but you need to be careful and be aware.
As I said before, watch out for any interactions.
Medicines often interact negatively with one another. So can herbs. Always be careful when taking more than one drug or herb or a combination of both.

If you suspect an interaction consult your physician or pharmacist.
One interaction that you should be aware of is Antidepressants known as monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors.-

They interact badly with:
wine, cheese and many other foods.
St. John’s Wort is also an MAO inhibitor so the same food restrictions apply.- If you plan on using St. John’s Wort, discuss it with your physician or pharmacist.
Lastly, make certain that both your physician AND your herbalist are fully aware of all medications and/or herbal treatments you are using.
Herbs should be used wisely and moderately.
This means that herbs should not only be used with an open mind and open heart, but also with respect and caution.

[covenofkeys]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_living/complementary_medicine/remedies_herbs.shtml
try this out.

[Brightshores]

Good point - MAOI antidepressants interact with just about everything, so be really careful which herbs you use if you're on MAOIs.

Also - if you're on Benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, etc.), or Cholesterol lowering drugs (Zocor, etc.) it's important to avoid grapefruit. Not sure why, and not sure if it even counts as an herb, but for some reason it's dangerous to combine grapefruit with those things.

Also - be careful mixing herbs with alcohol!!! (Not as in tincture-making, but as in drinking a lot and then taking herbs.)
:cheers:

[covenofkeys]

QUOTE;Also - if you're on Benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, etc.), or Cholesterol lowering drugs (Zocor, etc.) it's important to avoid grapefruit. Not sure why, and not sure if it even counts as an herb, but for some reason it's dangerous to combine grapefruit with those things.

>>I Will try to find out more on this when i have some spare time.x

[Walking Spirit]

From what I remember, grapefruit slows down the "detoxification" of the liver with meds. If your liver does not "expell" the medication it is not a good situation!


In regards to educating my kids about the plants - we do now, but they were 2 and younger at that time. But still, we have so many kids in the area, I would hate to know that something could happen....


Have a question:
What do you guys do: grow the herbs yourself and use them at your discretion or do you consult someone first and buy them through that person?

[covenofkeys]

hmm,thanks for your comments,
and um- who is the question aimed at?LOL

[CzechWoods]

Herbs are good medicine. There is no doubt about that fact.
However, there are over 300,000 higher plant species.

This means that even an experienced herbalist can make mistakes.

Example:-
Pregnant women should avoid:
barberry root bark, cascara sagrada, feverfew, juniper berries, mugwort, pennyroyal, poke root, rue, senna, southernwood, tansy, thuja and wormwood.

All of those herbs can increased a risk for miscarriage.

Safe herbs during pregnancy would be:
Manna, Butternut Bark or Root, Flax Seed, Slippery Elm and Lemon Verbena.

Make certain you have the correct diagnosis, for you.
Watch for any allergic reactions. Even though you may have never had any allergies in the past, watch carefully for any adverse reactions.
If you experience difficulty in breathing within 30 minutes of trying a new herb, food or drug, call the hospital immediately.- You may be having an anaphylactic reaction which is the most severe form of allergic reaction. This condition can quickly become fatal unless treated promptly.

This reaction is rare, but you need to be careful and be aware.
As I said before, watch out for any interactions.
Medicines often interact negatively with one another. So can herbs. Always be careful when taking more than one drug or herb or a combination of both.

If you suspect an interaction consult your physician or pharmacist.
One interaction that you should be aware of is Antidepressants known as monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors.-

They interact badly with:
wine, cheese and many other foods.
St. John’s Wort is also an MAO inhibitor so the same food restrictions apply.- If you plan on using St. John’s Wort, discuss it with your physician or pharmacist.
Lastly, make certain that both your physician AND your herbalist are fully aware of all medications and/or herbal treatments you are using.
Herbs should be used wisely and moderately.
This means that herbs should not only be used with an open mind and open heart, but also with respect and caution.

adding: pregnat women should also avoid parsey, for it is abortive

[Walking Spirit]

lol,

The question is aimed at anyone who wants to answer!

[covenofkeys]

okies, Walking Spirit.x


thanks for the addition CzechWoods.x

[bambi180]

From what I remember, grapefruit slows down the "detoxification" of the liver with meds. If your liver does not "expell" the medication it is not a good situation!


In regards to educating my kids about the plants - we do now, but they were 2 and younger at that time. But still, we have so many kids in the area, I would hate to know that something could happen....


Have a question:
What do you guys do: grow the herbs yourself and use them at your discretion or do you consult someone first and buy them through that person?

I grow them myself, but I don't have very many at the moment. We have basil on the windowsill in the kitchen, and I can't stop eating it!

[CzechWoods]

From what I remember, grapefruit slows down the "detoxification" of the liver with meds. If your liver does not "expell" the medication it is not a good situation!


In regards to educating my kids about the plants - we do now, but they were 2 and younger at that time. But still, we have so many kids in the area, I would hate to know that something could happen....


Have a question:
What do you guys do: grow the herbs yourself and use them at your discretion or do you consult someone first and buy them through that person?


i dont have a place where i can grow them

so i have to get them through other sources

i get my inforamtions from online/books sometimes meditation

than i go to places i trust and buy the stuff there. it does happen, that the place i go to will ask me, whether i am aware of this and that, and maybe give additional advice.

i will consider what i am told.

if i had a clear mindset, a goal of getting a said herb for a distinguished use, than i will stick to my plan regardless

but if my mindset came along with, could be ok to use it, and the sales person objects (with something that seems to make more sense) i will not use it the way i wanted

i leave some space for the GOD/DESS/ES to stop me, if i am trying to put myself or my loved ones in a danger

[covenofkeys]

c'mon people liven up! this thread aint dead yet! lol
ok....lets get some kind of debate going here shall we.....lemme see....~thinks~ .............parents who use only herbal or alternative therapies on their children without consulting the medical proffession? hows that? i dunno! lol

[covenofkeys]

poor dead thread...~sniffles~

[covenofkeys]

Poor, Poor Dead Thread!! Lol