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Philosophia
November 21st, 2006, 10:38 PM
Are people afraid of discordians?
Are they hiding their insecurities behind a blanket of humor because they can't look into the mirror without succumbing to the truth?
Why do other "pagans" dislike discordianism?

Arion
November 21st, 2006, 10:49 PM
I've never actually met one directly. From what I read here, they're annoying, but nothing to be afraid of :p

Jolixte
November 21st, 2006, 11:25 PM
A friend of mine and a man I very much respect is a Discordian, and while he has is moments, he's not someone to be afraid of. I've also met several on here, and I see nothing to be afraid of here either.

Hail Eris!

Snapdragon
November 21st, 2006, 11:35 PM
Each must speak for hirself. My own experience, which is largely limited to this board, is that the most fatuous, manipulative, and venomous people to be found here are all of the discordian genre. I could make a short list of those who have been banned in the modest time I've been a regular visitor to this site, and most of them are/were of the discordian genre.

I say, flush twice to make sure they're truly gone. That's all I'll have to say on this topic.

Philosophia
November 22nd, 2006, 02:20 AM
Each must speak for hirself. My own experience, which is largely limited to this board, is that the most fatuous, manipulative, and venomous people to be found here are all of the discordian genre. I could make a short list of those who have been banned in the modest time I've been a regular visitor to this site, and most of them are/were of the discordian genre.
I say, flush twice to make sure they're truly gone. That's all I'll have to say on this topic.

You do realize that most of the people who were banned weren't discordian...

BlackMagicalCat
November 22nd, 2006, 02:43 AM
I have nothing against anothers path,,so long as they respect others,,and discordians seem to thrive on being mean and making fun of others,,,its in thier religion I guess.

I dont fear them,I dislike the way they act and the way they treat others of different faiths,,especially christians.

A successfull and a good discordian,,is one who gets others angry,upset,and is skilled at mocking and belittling them.The better they are at it,,the more they are respected by thier piers.

Thats how it seems to me.Not all are that way,,but a lot I have seen are.

And then when you call on them to behave,,they bitch about freedom of speach,,and thier own opinions being banned .They want the right to treat others any kind of way they want,to mock thier faith,make fun of Jesus Christ,,and then whine when they are confronted.

They are always looking for ways to push the limits of this board and other boards,to see how far they can go,what they can get away with.

But you reap what you sow,,the bad karma you send to others will soon be knocking on your front porch.

It matters how you treat others.No one lives in a vaccum.

Agaliha
November 22nd, 2006, 02:47 AM
Minerva, I saw those comments in the other thread. :2G:

I'm just going to say that I don't know enough about Discordianism to really have an opinion. I actually have a few questions about it (like in Wikipedia the article mentioned it is a joke-- true? And do Discordians honor Eris like pagans do or is she just a symbol for chaos?).
I'm not afraid of them. Confused is more like it I think. Their humor and style of posting are different. Not bad, just different.
Lately it seems like many were banned, but technically the group of people to be banned the most is spammers. I saw roughly 5 in a month, probably more.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with Discordians. :)

ETA: As far as the things Azzy mentioned-- I'll just say that anyone, from any path can be rude and disrespectful not just Discordians. There are some on here that aren't any of those things. Labeling Discordians as acting that way isn't fair and besides there are plenty more paths and people that have caused more harm than them.

Philosophia
November 22nd, 2006, 02:47 AM
I have nothing against anothers path,,so long as they respect others,,and discordians seem to thrive on being mean and making fun of others,,,its in thier religion I guess.
I dont fear them,I dislike the way they act and the way they treat others of different faiths,,especially christians.
A successfull and a good discordian,,is one who gets others angry,upset,and is skilled at mocking and belittling them.The better they are at it,,the more they are respected by thier piers.
Thats how it seems to me.Not all are that way,,but a lot I have seen are.
And then when you call on them to behave,,they bitch about freedom of speach,,and thier own opinions being banned .They want the right to treat others any kind of way they want,to mock thier faith,make fun of Jesus Christ,,and then whine when they are confronted.
They are always looking for ways to push the limits of this board and other boards,to see how far they can go,what they can get away with.
But you reap what you sow,,the bad karma you send to others will soon be knocking on your front porch.
It matters how you treat others.No one lives in a vaccum.

Actually, I disagree with you. Discordians aren't always like that and neither do supposed "successful" discordians. Actually, if I remember correctly, they defended Christianity many times here. But people don't tend to remember that stuff.
Prejudice, in this case, tends to go both ways, don't you think? Not all are bad, just like Christians, right?

Xentor
November 22nd, 2006, 08:25 PM
You do realize that most of the people who were banned weren't discordian...

That might be part of the problem: some of those who got banned claimed to be discordian, while they had very few discordian tendencies. That may have eschewed other members' vision of discordians as a whole.

That said, one doesn't have to be discordian to be unliked. One can be an admin, too. Now, if one happens to be a discordian admin, one might just find themselves S.O.L....

What is it with some discordians and their playing victim? I thought only fluffy bunny wiccans lower themselves to such behaviour?

Philosophia
November 22nd, 2006, 08:33 PM
That might be part of the problem: some of those who got banned claimed to be discordian, while they had very few discordian tendencies. That may have eschewed other members' vision of discordians as a whole.
That said, one doesn't have to be discordian to be unliked. One can be an admin, too. Now, if one happens to be a discordian admin, one might just find themselves S.O.L....

But only a very small minority of those banned claimed to be discordian. I agree that they probably eschewed their vision of discordianism but are they going to allow this to cloud their perception of what discordianism is?


What is it with some discordians and their playing victim? I thought only fluffy bunny wiccans lower themselves to such behaviour?

They're human, just like everybody else. I know some Gardnerians, Wiccans, Witches, Dianics, eclectics, etc. who are the same. Some people are naturally "victims".

Djiril
November 22nd, 2006, 08:36 PM
I'm not personally afraid of them. Should I be? :hahugh:

Actually, I think Discordianism is kind of cool, because sometimes we need some chaos to keep things from "settling" too much. Not to say that I'm going to like every Discordian I meet, but I appreciate that they are out there to stir things up.

wooleybob
November 22nd, 2006, 08:52 PM
eh..The ones I know may cause some dislike to others,but in all they are kindhearted and friends with alot of people on here..jmo..Hey LOOK...There's one behind you now...lol:lol:

Teresa
November 22nd, 2006, 09:06 PM
Nope , not afraid of them . I have met a few around my parts and to me they are people like everyone else. In any Path choice you will find examples of : good, bad, annoying, troublemakers, "totally tick ya off ", fake, phony, happy, sad, caring, kind. I would not limit statements to just Discordians ; you can find a range of different things in any path . Maybe the last person who left a bad taste in your mouth claimed to be Discordian, but you can not judge the whole barrel by that one apple!
:hugz:

firefairy86
November 23rd, 2006, 04:00 AM
I just found out that my manager at my new job is a Discordian and he briefly explained what it is... though I don't know him very well at all... he doesn't seem cruel... he's just kinda goofy and wierd... but he's been nice so far. So I agree with those who are saying that you will find cruel people in all paths and that it is not particularly part of their religion to be mean or annoying.

Infinite Grey
November 23rd, 2006, 05:14 AM
Discordians are cute little creatures :)

Cassie
November 23rd, 2006, 05:43 AM
No I'm not afraid of Discordians. I only really know the ones who were or are still here. Some I respected very much while others I found offensive and disrespectful to the MW community.
There are of course, plenty of other people who are guilty of un-neccessarily offending people too who are not Discordian. However I think the discordians tend to single themselves out a bit and react defensively as a group if they feel one of their number is being attacked and this reinforces their group identity.
If I do something wrong and get a warning or a ban, people will not assume it is because I am a Wiccan (or whatever) they'll just think it is Cassie being naughty, whereas if a discordian member breaks the rules there seems to be an assumption that it is because they are discordian and other discordians rushing to their defense increases that perception.

(Sorry, I'm having a bad dyslexia day!)

FeatherGoblinglimmer
November 23rd, 2006, 06:00 AM
I don't know much about discordianism although it's kinda intriguing. But the discordians i have talked to on this site( granted about 3 yrs ago now) were very nice, if opinionated).

Whitewolf
November 26th, 2006, 02:55 AM
I have no problem with Discordians.

Whitewolf
November 26th, 2006, 02:59 AM
Actually, I think Discordianism is kind of cool, because sometimes we need some chaos to keep things from "settling" too much. Not to say that I'm going to like every Discordian I meet, but I appreciate that they are out there to stir things up.

I totally agree with this and have no problems with Discordians.

Kallisty
November 26th, 2006, 12:33 PM
I have nothing against anothers path,,so long as they respect others,,and discordians seem to thrive on being mean and making fun of others,,,its in thier religion I guess.

I dont fear them,I dislike the way they act and the way they treat others of different faiths,,especially christians.

A successfull and a good discordian,,is one who gets others angry,upset,and is skilled at mocking and belittling them.The better they are at it,,the more they are respected by thier piers.

Thats how it seems to me.Not all are that way,,but a lot I have seen are.


You also have to look at how long they have been a Discordian for. The "youngsters", as it were, will tend towards this scope of behavior - given total freedom, they are going to take it and run with it as far as they can. It will take getting burned a few times for them to mature and realize that chaos and discord is actually a potent tool when used properly.

If any of you are familiar with a Brother Jed Smock that used to make the rounds on college campuses, he is the perfect example I tend to use. I did everything I could to disrupt his confrontational evangelism on campus, and it just led him and the people listening to him to get more committed. At the end, he gave me a copy of his book. For the next THREE weeks, I got calls from the local evangelists wanting to save my immoral soul. That "burn" taught me a lesson - subtlety. It also taught me to balance tools with compassion, so that it doesn't generate near the hard feelings.

Most of the discordians stirring the pot just to stir it are waiting on the burn to hit. Those that stay Discordian afterwards are harder to pinpoint, but far more effective.



And then when you call on them to behave,,they bitch about freedom of speach,,and thier own opinions being banned .They want the right to treat others any kind of way they want,to mock thier faith,make fun of Jesus Christ,,and then whine when they are confronted.

They are always looking for ways to push the limits of this board and other boards,to see how far they can go,what they can get away with.

But you reap what you sow,,the bad karma you send to others will soon be knocking on your front porch.

It matters how you treat others.No one lives in a vaccum.

The last statement, I agree with for anyone involved. Now, the karma part is not in the faith for the most part, being a "law" that many feel doesn't apply to them anymore. As far as the mocking part goes, that is the youngsters for the most part.

However, some old fools still haven't gotten burned yet. Give them time is all I can say.

Cheers,
Kallisty the Curmudgeonly Discordian

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 12:55 PM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of Discordians. I know some are sick of the arrogant pompus attitudes that some of them potray, but thats about it.

But most of them are not "true Discordians" anyways.

A True Discordian does not spend all their time making sarcastic posts on internet forums. In fact, a majority of "Discordians" you see online are not really true Discordians, but nothing more than attention seekers.

Whats a true Discordian? Well, its not someone who does nothing but make funny comments, thats for sure.

The whole "Discordian" thing became nothing more than a trend lately, a fad if you will, like the "cool kids club".

I mean, the whole Discordian movement was created by 2 guys who were stoned, as a mock religion, who quotes a source of information as " a time travelling anthropologist from the 24th century"

I enjoyed the "Principia Discordia", but I took it for *what it is*, a joke, not something to follow.

Whos scared? No one I bet.

Gwenhwyfar
November 26th, 2006, 02:15 PM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of Discordians. I know some are sick of the arrogant pompus attitudes that some of them potray, but thats about it.

But most of them are not "true Discordians" anyways.

A True Discordian does not spend all their time making sarcastic posts on internet forums. In fact, a majority of "Discordians" you see online are not really true Discordians, but nothing more than attention seekers.

Whats a true Discordian? Well, its not someone who does nothing but make funny comments, thats for sure.

The whole "Discordian" thing became nothing more than a trend lately, a fad if you will, like the "cool kids club".

I mean, the whole Discordian movement was created by 2 guys who were stoned, as a mock religion, who quotes a source of information as " a time travelling anthropologist from the 24th century"

I enjoyed the "Principia Discordia", but I took it for *what it is*, a joke, not something to follow.

Whos scared? No one I bet.

sums it up for me.

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Well, to be perfectly blunt...

I've always, always regarded the Discordians as being people who chose to be Discordians because they can't be arsed to actually do any work to develop a relationship with a specific deity, they were too wishy-washy to choose just one path, and they just want to be a mishmash of everything and not have to work at learning about rituals or traditions or any such thing as that. "Oooh, I'm a Discordian! I can do whatever I want! Which means I can just SAY I'm a pagan but I never bother doing rituals or studying any kind of sacred texts or developing a relationship with deity, etc! I can go around and not be Christian, but I won't quite be anything else either because I just can't commit and I can't be ARSED to commit!"

Spoiled brats of the pagan world, I thought. I really don't have a lot of respect for Discordians. They just strike me as spiritually lazy.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 07:14 PM
sums it up for me.

No surprise there :)

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 07:34 PM
Well, to be perfectly blunt...
I've always, always regarded the Discordians as being people who chose to be Discordians because they can't be arsed to actually do any work to develop a relationship with a specific deity, they were too wishy-washy to choose just one path, and they just want to be a mishmash of everything and not have to work at learning about rituals or traditions or any such thing as that. "Oooh, I'm a Discordian! I can do whatever I want! Which means I can just SAY I'm a pagan but I never bother doing rituals or studying any kind of sacred texts or developing a relationship with deity, etc! I can go around and not be Christian, but I won't quite be anything else either because I just can't commit and I can't be ARSED to commit!"
Spoiled brats of the pagan world, I thought. I really don't have a lot of respect for Discordians. They just strike me as spiritually lazy.

*cough*so respectful*cough*

Look, you don't like them, fine. But don't put them down until you do know them. Its kinda like me putting down Christians and calling them "spiritually lazy". Would you like that?

Brightshores
November 26th, 2006, 07:42 PM
I certainly don't fear Discordians...

In fact, I find them refreshing - it's always good to be reminded to think critically and to develop one's own thoughts and opinions without relying on "the public voice" that we're all supposed to conform with.

That being said, as Kallisty pointed out, it's important for everyone to learn to be wise enough to know when to speak, when to listen, when to be diplomatic, and when to stir it up. A lot of people (Discordian and otherwise) haven't quite figured that out yet. ;)

I find people generally fear only what they don't understand.

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 07:45 PM
*cough*so respectful*cough*

Look, you don't like them, fine. But don't put them down until you do know them. Its kinda like me putting down Christians and calling them "spiritually lazy". Would you like that?

I HAVE known them. That's why I came to the assessment that I did. It's BECAUSE of all the silly Discordians I've run into since I first started MY pagan walk back in 1988 that I came to have no respect for them.

And at least with Christians, we do have a God that we worship, we have a liturgy, we have a sacred text, we have all this stuff which is more than what any Discordian can say.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 07:50 PM
I HAVE known them. That's why I came to the assessment that I did. It's BECAUSE of all the silly Discordians I've run into since I first started MY pagan walk back in 1988 that I came to have no respect for them.

So? I know some Christians and I can say the exact same thing.


And at least with Christians, we do have a God that we worship, we have a liturgy, we have a sacred text, we have all this stuff which is more than what any Discordian can say.

Ahem...Eris. Just saying.
Try learning a bit about discordianism before writing them off. It seems fine to put them down without actually knowing anything about them.

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 07:50 PM
*cough*so respectful*cough*

Look, you don't like them, fine. But don't put them down until you do know them. Its kinda like me putting down Christians and calling them "spiritually lazy". Would you like that?

Why do you jump to the defense of Discordians? Are you one yourself? Do you find this threatening, the fact that there are some people who just regard Discordians as completely nuts?

I am not going to lie about the way I feel. Maybe this NEEDS to be said. Maybe this is a sentiment that NEEDS to get out there.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 07:52 PM
Why do you jump to the defense of Discordians? Are you one yourself? Do you find this threatening, the fact that there are some people who just regard Discordians as completely nuts?

Why do I care? Merely intellectual curiosity. You really assume a lot, don't you?
Why would I find it threatening? I kinda find it amusing actually.


I am not going to lie about the way I feel. Maybe this NEEDS to be said. Maybe this is a sentiment that NEEDS to get out there.

Who's needs? Yours? So the respect rule only goes for people you like?

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 07:54 PM
Ahem...Eris. Just saying.
Try learning a bit about discordianism before writing them off. It seems fine to put them down without actually knowing anything about them.

I HAVE learned a bit about Discordianism. Once again, this is the part you're failing to understand. I've been at this for nearly 20 years. I've been around them. I've heard them go on and on ad infinitum about Discordianism. I've seen what they are like.

I DON'T LIKE DISCORDIANS.

Learn this, missy: I am not required to like any particular group if I don't see any reason to. Just because they're pagans of a sort doesn't mean I have to like them. Period.

Lunacie
November 26th, 2006, 07:54 PM
No I'm not afraid of Discordians. I only really know the ones who were or are still here. Some I respected very much while others I found offensive and disrespectful to the MW community.
There are of course, plenty of other people who are guilty of un-neccessarily offending people too who are not Discordian. However I think the discordians tend to single themselves out a bit and react defensively as a group if they feel one of their number is being attacked and this reinforces their group identity.
If I do something wrong and get a warning or a ban, people will not assume it is because I am a Wiccan (or whatever) they'll just think it is Cassie being naughty, whereas if a discordian member breaks the rules there seems to be an assumption that it is because they are discordian and other discordians rushing to their defense increases that perception.

(Sorry, I'm having a bad dyslexia day!)

Dyslexia aside (and I didn't actually notice any), this was a very insightful post. That is very much the way I see Discordians - at least since dealing with those who claimed to be Discordian on this site in the last few months.

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 08:00 PM
Well, to be perfectly blunt...

I've always, always regarded the Discordians as being people who chose to be Discordians because they can't be arsed to actually do any work to develop a relationship with a specific deity, they were too wishy-washy to choose just one path, and they just want to be a mishmash of everything and not have to work at learning about rituals or traditions or any such thing as that. "Oooh, I'm a Discordian! I can do whatever I want! Which means I can just SAY I'm a pagan but I never bother doing rituals or studying any kind of sacred texts or developing a relationship with deity, etc! I can go around and not be Christian, but I won't quite be anything else either because I just can't commit and I can't be ARSED to commit!"

Spoiled brats of the pagan world, I thought. I really don't have a lot of respect for Discordians. They just strike me as spiritually lazy.




Actually, quite many Discordians I spoken with are basicaly Atheists, who think all Pagans are "new age fluffys" . For lack of a better term.

To many Discordians, Eris is nothing more than a symbolic figure, and not a actual Goddess.

And I wont even mention what various Discordian forums say about us here at MW._inabox_

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Why do I care? Merely intellectual curiosity. You really assume a lot, don't you?

So do you. Motes and beams, madam, motes and beams.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I HAVE learned a bit about Discordianism. Once again, this is the part you're failing to understand. I've been at this for nearly 20 years. I've been around them. I've heard them go on and on ad infinitum about Discordianism. I've seen what they are like.

I think you're not reading my words. Read this, I don't care if you despise discordians. I don't care. I have been around them as well, and I've been around Christians too. I have seen the best and the worst, so get off your high horse and look around without your blinders on.


I DON'T LIKE DISCORDIANS.

Good for you. Want a cookie with that?


Learn this, missy: I am not required to like any particular group if I don't see any reason to. Just because they're pagans of a sort doesn't mean I have to like them. Period.

First, don't call me missy. I have a name....use it.
I'm not asking you to like anybody. Am I forcing you to? No. Am I telling you to? No. Don't assume anything...

Don't like my posts? Don't reply to them. Remember the respect rule and you should be fine :).

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:02 PM
Actually, quite many Discordians I spoken with are basicaly Atheists, who think all Pagans are "new age fluffys" . For lack of a better term.
Too many Discordians, Eris is nothing more than a symbolic figure, and not a actual Goddess.

And this is different to many wiccans, how?


And I wont even mention what various Discordian forums say about us here at MW._inabox_

So?

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:03 PM
So do you. Motes and beams, madam, motes and beams.

Again, with the name. Don't you know the rule?
And I haven't assumed anything. I wasn't calling the other "discordian" now was I?

Wolfpoet
November 26th, 2006, 08:05 PM
The thing you'll notice about Discordians is they will most times piss you off. they will anger you, frustrate you, confuse you and if your REALY unlucky, make life a living hell till you go away or stop arguing.

Sooner or later, if your open-minded enough, you'll stop to wonder WHY those Discordian types are the above list of anti-social traits. In that moment of self-realisation you'll figure out a few home truths and their work is done.

It's the people who never question, who never figure out why Discordians manage to hit a nerve every damn time that I tend to feel sorry for.

But then I'm persona-non-grata on the board Knate so cleverly didn't mention, sorry I mean boards, so don't listen to my musings.

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Are people afraid of discordian's?
Are they hiding their insecurities behind a blanket of humor because they can't look into the mirror without succumbing to the truth?
Why do other "pagans" dislike discordianism?

By the way, O clever one, it would be nice if you learned the proper use of an apostrophe. Oh, and proper capitalization too.

It's not "discordian's" as you have it above.

It should read, for those who speak and write proper English, "Discordians."

Learn your grammar and punctuation.

Oh, and you asked the question. Don't blame ME if you don't like some of the answers you get. The Greeks had a saying that translated as: "If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble."

I suppose I have to explain this to you. It basically means this: if you can't handle the answers, don't ask the questions.

You asked.

I answered.

Not my problem if you don't like my answer.

It's not going to change, especially not for you.

I hope I have made myself crystal clear to you.

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Again, with the name. Don't you know the rule?
And I haven't assumed anything. I wasn't calling the other "discordian" now was I?

You assumed I had no knowledge of Discoridians or Discordianism. You assumed that I knew nothing of this. If you had not assumed such, you would not have told me to learn about it or get to know Discordians.

THAT is what you assumed, babycakes.

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 08:08 PM
And this is different to many wiccans, how?




The difference? Wicca was not invented by two guys on drugs as a joke.

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 08:11 PM
This is what you said, Minerva: "Try learning a bit about discordianism before writing them off."

Right there in black and white, as it were. You assumed I did not know.

You DO assume much.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:11 PM
By the way, O clever one, it would be nice if you learned the proper use of an apostrophe. Oh, and proper capitalization too.

Same could be said for you. Oh, again with the name. Have you actually read the rules?


It's not "discordian's" as you have it above.

Are you sure?


It should read, for those who speak and write proper English, "Discordians."

Coming from you, thats rather funny. :lol:


Learn your grammar and punctuation.

Same goes for you. Strange how you can give the advice but can't implement it. :)


Oh, and you asked the question. Don't blame ME if you don't like some of the answers you get. The Greeks had a saying that translated as: "If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble."

Hey, I don't care what your answer is. I suggest, though, you learn the rules of MW first.


I suppose I have to explain this to you. It basically means this: if you can't handle the answers, don't ask the questions.

Let me explain it to you: I don't care.


You asked.

No shit.


I answered.

Really? Could've fooled me?


Not my problem if you don't like my answer.

Not my problem if you don't like my reply.


It's not going to change, especially not for you.

Did I want it to change? Did I ask you to change it?


I hope I have made myself crystal clear to you.

Maybe you should read my posts before getting on that high horse. :)

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 08:12 PM
Now, how in the name of God do I ignore Minerva Mind? Isn't there a way to block all of her posts so my eyes don't have to bleed out of my head reading them?

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:12 PM
This is what you said, Minerva: "Try learning a bit about discordianism before writing them off."
Right there in black and white, as it were. You assumed I did not know.
You DO assume much.

No, you assume too much. You said that discordians are spiritually lazy. The ones I've met are far from lazy.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Now, how in the name of God do I ignore Minerva Mind? Isn't there a way to block all of her posts so my eyes don't have to bleed out of my head reading them?

Its called the ignore function. Use it.
I don't want to see your pretty eyes bleed from reading my posts :)

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:13 PM
The difference? Wicca was not invented by two guys on drugs as a joke.

Depend on who you talk to :)
Does it really matter that it was created as a joke?

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 08:15 PM
No, you assume too much. You said that discordians are spiritually lazy. The ones I've met are far from lazy.

Like I said, some have no spiritual beliefs. "Atheists"

And posting 60 posts a day, with each being nothing more than a witty one-liner that Discordians are known for is far from lazy.

Really it is. I'd get tired of it long before 60 posts.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:16 PM
You assumed I had no knowledge of Discoridians or Discordianism. You assumed that I knew nothing of this. If you had not assumed such, you would not have told me to learn about it or get to know Discordians.

When did I say that you knew nothing? Did I actually say that? I think I said "try to learn a bit about them". I didn't say that you didn't know anything about it?
Thus how can you say I assumed something thats not there?


THAT is what you assumed, babycakes.

No name calling. I swear you don't know the rules do you?

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 08:17 PM
Depend on who you talk to :)
Does it really matter that it was created as a joke?

If I made a religion about Macgyver, I bet you'd say *I* was stupid.

So?

Lovehound
November 26th, 2006, 08:18 PM
Minerva, you said, "Hey, I don't care what your answer is. I suggest, though, you learn the rules of MW first."

If you don't care what the answer was, then why did you jump on my ass about my answer? Apparently you DID care.

As far as the board goes - my life wouldn't come to an end if I got tossed off of a pagan message board. I've been tossed off sites before, because I say things that aren't always politically correct. I don't come here all that often anyway. Ooooh, are the politically-correct police going to come to my house and haul me off in handcuffs? Please.

And as far as this goes: "Maybe you should read my posts before getting on that high horse."

I'll get on whatever high horse I want to - and I'll do it because you seem to get something from it - attention, maybe? At any rate, you will not stop me. Once again, are you going to come to my house and pry my keyboard out of my hands and say BAD REDHEAD! You have to go for a week without Internet!

No, it won't matter what happens. As Gandhi said, you can arrest me, throw me in jail, beat me, torture me, break my bones and even kill me. Then you will have my dead body.

NOT MY OBEDIENCE.

Yeshuah bar Joseph had the same attitude.

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:18 PM
Like I said, some have no spiritual beliefs. "Atheists"
And posting 60 posts a day, with each being nothing more than a witty one-liner that Discordians are known for is far from lazy.
Really it is. I'd get tired of it long before 60 posts.

*shrugs* Some people are like that.

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 08:18 PM
I'm gonna wait until some actual Discordians come here and defend themselves.


Until then, I'm gonna do something else, something probably just as trivial.

Have fun everybody.

SilverClaw
November 26th, 2006, 08:23 PM
I'm gonna wait until some actual Discordians come here and defend themselves.


Have they not defended thier beleifs enough in other threads ?

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 08:24 PM
Minerva, you said, "Hey, I don't care what your answer is. I suggest, though, you learn the rules of MW first."

Yep.


If you don't care what the answer was, then why did you jump on my ass about my answer? Apparently you DID care.

No, I care about the respect rule. You may not like it, but there are discordians here and calling them spiritually lazy does break the respect rule.


As far as the board goes - my life wouldn't come to an end if I got tossed off of a pagan message board. I've been tossed off sites before, because I say things that aren't always politically correct. I don't come here all that often anyway.

Good for you. Really.
I'm so proud that you don't care about the rules that govern this message board. Oh, and its far from politically correct. That, and you're so called "grammar skills", are just little jibes at me that won't work.
Been there, done that. Got the t-shirt.
Or is that not correct?


Ooooh, are the politically-correct police going to come to my house and haul me off in handcuffs? Please.

Now, I did I say that? Mmmm, I don't think so.


And as far as this goes: "Maybe you should read my posts before getting on that high horse."

Yep! Thats me again.


I'll get on whatever high horse I want to - and I'll do it because you seem to get something from it - attention, maybe?

What attention? I just enjoy prodding you.



At any rate, you will not stop me. Once again, are you going to come to my house and pry my keyboard out of my hands and say BAD REDHEAD! You have to go for a week without Internet!

Why would I want to? Geesh...why do I want to stop you? I'm having too much fun.


No, it won't matter what happens. As Gandhi said, you can arrest me, throw me in jail, beat me, torture me, break my bones and even kill me. Then you will have my dead body.
NOT MY OBEDIENCE.

:wtf: Sure, play the victim. Nobody is asking for obedience. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, yet there are rules and to post here, you need to obey them.
Simple.
Its not about "political correctness" or "being Ghandi". Its about obeying the rules.

Wolfpoet
November 26th, 2006, 08:25 PM
I'm gonna wait until some actual Discordians come here and defend themselves.


Until then, I'm gonna do something else, something probably just as trivial.

Have fun everybody.

Good luck, most of them got banned or left.

Nothing like beating on somebody who can't defend themselves.

Ahautenites
November 26th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Are people afraid of discordian's?
Are they hiding their insecurities behind a blanket of humor because they can't look into the mirror without succumbing to the truth?
Why do other "Peoples" dislike discordianism?

I can't speak for others. I can only state my own opinion of them... I find them incredibly intelligent, but I feel that their message often gets lost in the translation from Discordian to normal-person-speak. When I'm reading a conversation from them in the Political forum, I believe they are lucid and insightful. But everywhere else, well.... they practice what they preach, and they take what they believe in very seriously. The cleverness and creativity and seeming eccentricity can get annoying after a while.

SwordsFlameSong
November 26th, 2006, 09:04 PM
Lovehound calling someone babycakes and attacking another poster is in violation of the rules

From the Rules



2. Debate the idea, don't attack the poster. Calling someone "liberal asshole"/"Fluffy bunny"/"idiot"/"dumbass"/"moron"/"screwhead"/"conservative arsehole"/"big loser", actually, any name-calling whatsoever is not a refutation of an idea, it's a verbal (yah, yah...typed, written, etc) attack of another member of this community and it will not be tolerated. Notice that we are talking about verbal attacks between members. You are free to call, for example, George Bush...a big loser, until the time comes when Mr. Bush joins the community. Then he must be respected like every other member. Also, no condescending stuff. Calling someone sweetypie, honeybunch, hun, missy, might just be the way you talk, but it can also imply a condescending tone. We have no way of knowing which way you are using the term...so if you are addressing someone directly, just use their username.




In General and for everyone posting in this thread, whatever you personally feel about Discordianism the following rule applies:



3. Racism, sexism, age discrimination, the outright bashing of a path or religion, etc is unacceptable. Debating the tenets of a religion is one thing...calling all Christians evil or saying that all Pagans are going to hell is not allowed. Proselytizing is not allowed in any form. No conversion or 'witnessing' is allowed. We are not here to spread our various religions. We are here to be friends, love and respect each other, and most importantly...learn. Tolerance is key. All religions and Paths are welcome here providing their tenets do not violate any laws or our rules. Calling someones religion "false", no matter how wrong or silly it may seem to you is not allowed.


If there are any other questions or conceerns regarding this administration please contact me or another admin.

SammieAnn
November 26th, 2006, 09:32 PM
nope, I am not afraid of discordians. I think for the most part they are rather fun and interesting.

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 09:38 PM
Good luck, most of them got banned or left.

Nothing like beating on somebody who can't defend themselves.


Well, here I am again..

Theres a few left, at least it says that in their community title or sig.

So what? Did they take a vow of silence or something?

Philosophia
November 26th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Well, here I am again..
Theres a few left, at least it says that in their community title or sig.
So what? Did they take a vow of silence or something?

Do they need to defend themselves? Why?
Who's attacking them here?

Kallisty
November 26th, 2006, 09:43 PM
I'm gonna wait until some actual Discordians come here and defend themselves.


Until then, I'm gonna do something else, something probably just as trivial.

Have fun everybody.

Personally, I was tempted earlier to come in and do a "defense of Discordianism and all that is right with Eris" rant, but two things stopped me.

1. My internet kept crashing when I wanted to go full bore into a defense.
2. When your enemy is busy shooting themselves in the foot, you STAY OUT OF THE WAY!

Now, if anyone has any issues about Discordians and how their faith does or does not work with the mainstream pagan community at large, I am more than willing to entertain them, debate them, and even teach or learn from the conversation.

I will not willing put myself into a flamewar where I may inadvertently violate the TOS of this board.

So please, fire away and I will respond.

Eris bless,
Kall

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 09:45 PM
Personally, I was tempted earlier to come in and do a "defense of Discordianism and all that is right with Eris" rant, but two things stopped me.

1. My internet kept crashing when I wanted to go full bore into a defense.
2. When your enemy is busy shooting themselves in the foot, you STAY OUT OF THE WAY!

Now, if anyone has any issues about Discordians and how their faith does or does not work with the mainstream pagan community at large, I am more than willing to entertain them, debate them, and even teach or learn from the conversation.

I will not willing put myself into a flamewar where I may inadvertently violate the TOS of this board.

So please, fire away and I will respond.

Eris bless,
Kall




Sure thing.


I made a post a few posts earlier about what are not "true" Discordians. Which was the whole point of me posting on this train-wreck of a thread.




So.....check my post.....and tell me how right or wrong I am.



Edit: here-

http://mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=2907103#post2907103

Kallisty
November 26th, 2006, 10:04 PM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of Discordians. I know some are sick of the arrogant pompus attitudes that some of them potray, but thats about it.

But most of them are not "true Discordians" anyways.


Close, my friend, but no cigar. The fact that they are arrogant and pompous may just be the easiest way for them to monkeywrench things to cause chaos and disorder. These also tend to be the "newbies" who haven't gotten burned quite yet. As far as I am concerned, they are as true of Discordians as I am, but at a different level of maturity and tool use.


A True Discordian does not spend all their time making sarcastic posts on internet forums. In fact, a majority of "Discordians" you see online are not really true Discordians, but nothing more than attention seekers.

Whats a true Discordian? Well, its not someone who does nothing but make funny comments, thats for sure.

This last sentence is true in my opinion. If that is all they are doing, with no rhyme or reason behind it, then it quickly becomes stale and routine. They devolve to the worst kind of disorder possible - pure order where they are predictable. It is a common trap to fall into initially.

Taking the role of the loyal opposition, those who question the status quo, the divine fools - all of these are respectable goals. Every fool screws up the first few times. It's considered to be part of the on-the-job experience, even if the new fool doesn't realize it yet.


The whole "Discordian" thing became nothing more than a trend lately, a fad if you will, like the "cool kids club".

I mean, the whole Discordian movement was created by 2 guys who were stoned, as a mock religion, who quotes a source of information as " a time travelling anthropologist from the 24th century"

I enjoyed the "Principia Discordia", but I took it for *what it is*, a joke, not something to follow.

Whos scared? No one I bet.

As far as this being a fad or the cool kids club, this lasts until what I affectionatly call the first burn. This is when the Discordian does or says something stupid enough that they get in over their head. At this point, Eris is laughing her lovely ass off at them and watching to see what they do about it. If they learn and redouble their efforts, then you have a TRUE true Discordian on your hands. If they turn away from it as a bad idea, then there is one less bad apple to worry about.

Yes, the Principia Discordia was a joke, fiction in the best sense of the word. However, it also had a ton of underlying principles and ideas which are a good jumping point for anyone in the divine fool business. The adoption of Eris as a patron deity brings a whole extra level of obligations and chances to learn. To those that say that Discordians are spiritually lazy have not fully thought out what the consequences of being a dedicant to a goddess of chaos and disorder, a diety who challenges authority and fights dirty warfare on them, truly are.

In service to Eris (and occasionally her followers),
Kall

Knate
November 26th, 2006, 10:20 PM
Close, my friend, but no cigar. The fact that they are arrogant and pompous may just be the easiest way for them to monkeywrench things to cause chaos and disorder. These also tend to be the "newbies" who haven't gotten burned quite yet. As far as I am concerned, they are as true of Discordians as I am, but at a different level of maturity and tool use.


OK, for the most part, I'll take it...:hahugh: I slightly disagree, but, still, its good enough for me.




This last sentence is true in my opinion. If that is all they are doing, with no rhyme or reason behind it, then it quickly becomes stale and routine. They devolve to the worst kind of disorder possible - pure order where they are predictable. It is a common trap to fall into initially.




Taking the role of the loyal opposition, those who question the status quo, the divine fools - all of these are respectable goals. Every fool screws up the first few times. It's considered to be part of the on-the-job experience, even if the new fool doesn't realize it yet.


Agreed, but you can't deny, some are just idiots.





As far as this being a fad or the cool kids club, this lasts until what I affectionatly call the first burn. This is when the Discordian does or says something stupid enough that they get in over their head. At this point, Eris is laughing her lovely ass off at them and watching to see what they do about it. If they learn and redouble their efforts, then you have a TRUE true Discordian on your hands. If they turn away from it as a bad idea, then there is one less bad apple to worry about.

Yes, the Principia Discordia was a joke, fiction in the best sense of the word. However, it also had a ton of underlying principles and ideas which are a good jumping point for anyone in the divine fool business. The adoption of Eris as a patron deity brings a whole extra level of obligations and chances to learn. To those that say that Discordians are spiritually lazy have not fully thought out what the consequences of being a dedicant to a goddess of chaos and disorder, a diety who challenges authority and fights dirty warfare on them, truly are.





If you dont think it was a trend or a fad, you should have seen MW over the summer. Thats all I'm gonna say.

And I know for a fact, some *are* Athiests.

Many that are online.

But to make a debate about that, thats for a new thread.


You gave real awnsers, which I respect.








p.s. whats more Discordian, then stirring up Discordians.

Not much.


golden apples taste pretty good, well except for the brown parts where the writing was.



I got to go, I'm late for choir practice.

HetHert
November 26th, 2006, 10:22 PM
The things that Disco-cords have taught me are fivefold.

Open your eyes and your mind usually follows

Question everything.

Think for yourself

If it smells like shit it probably is but thats ok cuz everyone's shit stinks (can I say shit?)

Cuz you knew there had to be a fifth...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
...of Jack!


For this reason I don't fear them.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:24 PM
Wow....just wow, at this entire thread. I've been lurking for a while, but this thread has made me decide to sign up. I'm tired, so I may disappear before finishing off here, but I am going through this thread.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:27 PM
Each must speak for hirself. My own experience, which is largely limited to this board, is that the most fatuous, manipulative, and venomous people to be found here are all of the discordian genre. I could make a short list of those who have been banned in the modest time I've been a regular visitor to this site, and most of them are/were of the discordian genre.

I say, flush twice to make sure they're truly gone. That's all I'll have to say on this topic.

So all should be condemned for the acts of a few? How very...final, of you. I assume this site has had its fair share of Wiccan, Christian, Norse (sorry, I can never spell the proper name right) people who have been banned or have slighted people in some way? Will we see calls for their ban from you as well?

Bethra
November 26th, 2006, 10:27 PM
I've always said I'm not a Discordian and I'm still not sure if I am really. I do have a healthy understanding and respect for Chaos, I don't adopt Eris as my patron because I have no patrons and to me Eris is just a representation of Chaos. In general I don't really associate with Discordians all that much since I find I disagree with what they do a lot of the time. Now I know a lot of them would call me a pussy for this but it is my belief that Chaos doesn't need too much help along it's way. It is also my belief that it is not for me to create Chaos since Chaos finds it's own way. I'm here in my orderly fleshy form what right have I got to create discord? Besides, I'm sure Chaos is much better at it than I could ever hope to be since it's been around for a long arse time.

Having said all this I couldn't live without Chaos, I am a creature of Chaos and as such too spend too long in order is uncomfortable for me. Having read what Kallisty has had to say so far I would say there is in general two types of Discordian
Type 1. Is the man in the middle of that group of folks in the bar, he's playing the fool and he's making everyone laugh. He's spreading his own noisy type of Chaos and getting lots of attention.
Type 2. Is the person sitting on the outskirts sipping the jack and coke of all the people laughing at the Discordian in the middle.

If I am a Discordian I ain't the guy in the middle that's for sure ;)



Oh I'm sorry did you loose your drink :hahugh:

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:28 PM
I have nothing against anothers path,,so long as they respect others,,and discordians seem to thrive on being mean and making fun of others,,,its in thier religion I guess.

I dont fear them,I dislike the way they act and the way they treat others of different faiths,,especially christians.

A successfull and a good discordian,,is one who gets others angry,upset,and is skilled at mocking and belittling them.The better they are at it,,the more they are respected by thier piers.

Thats how it seems to me.Not all are that way,,but a lot I have seen are.

And then when you call on them to behave,,they bitch about freedom of speach,,and thier own opinions being banned .They want the right to treat others any kind of way they want,to mock thier faith,make fun of Jesus Christ,,and then whine when they are confronted.

They are always looking for ways to push the limits of this board and other boards,to see how far they can go,what they can get away with.

But you reap what you sow,,the bad karma you send to others will soon be knocking on your front porch.

It matters how you treat others.No one lives in a vaccum.

In my experience, most Discordians mock their own faith the worst. They tend to see it as a guard against dogmatism, as humor is generally a good weapon against such things. People who cannot laugh at their own beliefs are quite often dangerous people, not to mention a real drag at parties.

SammieAnn
November 26th, 2006, 10:28 PM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of Discordians. I know some are sick of the arrogant pompus attitudes that some of them potray, but thats about it.

But most of them are not "true Discordians" anyways.

A true Discordian does not spend all their time making sarcastic posts on internet forums. In fact, a majority of "Discordians" you see online are not really true Discordians, but nothing more than attention seekers.

Whats a true Discordian? Well, its not someone who does nothing but make funny comments, thats for sure.

The whole "Discordian" thing became nothing more than a trend lately, a fad if you will, like the "cool kids club".

I mean, the whole Discordian movement was created by 2 guys who were stoned, as a mock religion, who quotes a source of information as " a time travelling anthropologist from the 24th century"

I enjoyed the "Principia Discordia", but I took it for *what it is*, a joke, not something to follow.

Whos scared? No one I bet.

Here is my 25 cents to the discusion.

1. Even the arrogant pompus discordians have a purpose, and that purpose is to make you think for yourself. Sometimes it takes that pompus atitude to wake people up to make other people think for themselves.

2. Not all discordians make sarcastic jokes all the time. A good example would be Verthaine who is very respected in the discordian community. Lots of people make sarcastic jokes about things and are not discordian. Also making jokes about things that are bothering me personally makes whatever issue I have at that moment more bearable and easier to manage.

3. I don't think that discordianism as a path is a fad but thats my oppinion. Also being a discordian is not a lazy path as a discordian thinks too damn much and works to make people see the true reality of the way the world works. Have you guys read any of LB's or Cain's rants on here. I am sure that they must of put a lot of work into those.

4. Yes discordianism was invented by two guys who were stoned in a bowling alley who received the proverbial kick in the ass by Eris. the whole point in my oppinion is that yes this path had a whacky begining and is based on thinking for yourself while laughing your ass off at the same time.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:30 PM
Discordians are cute little creatures :)

Who need a steady diet of whiskey. Come pet the Discordian people, I'm right here...

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:36 PM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of Discordians. I know some are sick of the arrogant pompus attitudes that some of them potray, but thats about it.

But most of them are not "true Discordians" anyways.

A True Discordian does not spend all their time making sarcastic posts on internet forums. In fact, a majority of "Discordians" you see online are not really true Discordians, but nothing more than attention seekers.

Whats a true Discordian? Well, its not someone who does nothing but make funny comments, thats for sure.

The whole "Discordian" thing became nothing more than a trend lately, a fad if you will, like the "cool kids club".

I mean, the whole Discordian movement was created by 2 guys who were stoned, as a mock religion, who quotes a source of information as " a time travelling anthropologist from the 24th century"

I enjoyed the "Principia Discordia", but I took it for *what it is*, a joke, not something to follow.

Whos scared? No one I bet.

I was unaware you knew what made a Real Discordian. Perhaps you could enlighten us? Mayhaps you would like to cite your imaginary authority for you making such a grand judgement. Were you an original member of the Joshua Norton Cabal? Did you goof around with RAW and Hakim Bey and Thornley back in the 70s and 80s?

And the origins of a religion have little bearing on its current practice. After all, most "religions" practiced by modern Pagans are based on even more scant sources and romantic interpretations of long buried history. I hold no grudge against them for that, despite them being invented a few years after our own humble faith. Practically every Discordian accepts that two stoned bums invented their religion. That doesn't invalidate some of its ideas though.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:40 PM
Well, to be perfectly blunt...

I've always, always regarded the Discordians as being people who chose to be Discordians because they can't be arsed to actually do any work to develop a relationship with a specific deity, they were too wishy-washy to choose just one path, and they just want to be a mishmash of everything and not have to work at learning about rituals or traditions or any such thing as that. "Oooh, I'm a Discordian! I can do whatever I want! Which means I can just SAY I'm a pagan but I never bother doing rituals or studying any kind of sacred texts or developing a relationship with deity, etc! I can go around and not be Christian, but I won't quite be anything else either because I just can't commit and I can't be ARSED to commit!"

Spoiled brats of the pagan world, I thought. I really don't have a lot of respect for Discordians. They just strike me as spiritually lazy.

How very patronising and ill-informed of you. Do you always jump to such snap judgements.

Also, your interpretation of Discordianism comes from a very, very Pagan centric viewpoint. A Discordian need not do anything he or she does not want to, but many do because they enjoy it. Discordian practices can vary from O:MF and acts of guerrilla art (a la KLF or Banksy) to creative and socially charged statements (such as V for Vendetta), to actual Pagan like rituals, surrealist or situationist acts or any number of other things.

Just because that does not fit your traditional model of what a religion should do is not grounds for dismissal.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:43 PM
I HAVE known them. That's why I came to the assessment that I did. It's BECAUSE of all the silly Discordians I've run into since I first started MY pagan walk back in 1988 that I came to have no respect for them.

And at least with Christians, we do have a God that we worship, we have a liturgy, we have a sacred text, we have all this stuff which is more than what any Discordian can say.

You've met every single Discordian? Astounding. You must be very well travelled. I was that bearded guy in Cusco a few years back, putting up the "this phone booth is reserved for Clark Kent" stickers, in case you were wondering.

Discordians have a scripture too. Its called the Principia Discordia. You may want to read it. Also look at the Illuminatus! Trilogy too. Both are constant reference points for every Discordian I have know, which is unsurprising given they started the movement.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:46 PM
Why do you jump to the defense of Discordians? Are you one yourself? Do you find this threatening, the fact that there are some people who just regard Discordians as completely nuts?

I am not going to lie about the way I feel. Maybe this NEEDS to be said. Maybe this is a sentiment that NEEDS to get out there.

I think this sums up everything we need to know about you. If challenged, you attempt to slander the "offending" person and get in a few extra unwarranted attacks against Discordians too.

Of course, feel free to go around telling everyone about how nuts and evil and depraved we are. I mean, most anti-Discordian groups are fronts for various Cabals anyway, feeding a load of nonsense to the fundamentalist churches in their respective countries. There is no such thing as bad publicity where they are concerned and I'm sure a few can pass along some flyers (which we of course mocked up ourselves).

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:49 PM
Actually, quite many Discordians I spoken with are basicaly Atheists, who think all Pagans are "new age fluffys" . For lack of a better term.

To many Discordians, Eris is nothing more than a symbolic figure, and not a actual Goddess.

And I wont even mention what various Discordian forums say about us here at MW._inabox_

Does this invalidate the ideas behind it? Because I know of many Unitarian Universalists who think the same, as well as some more liberal US churches.

After all the trouble humans have caused trying to impress imaginary superheroes who live in the sky, this may be a healthier attitude to take.

Oh, and I know of more than a few Discordians who believe in an actual Goddess Eris. I even know some who worship the old Eris, as she was potrayed in the Iliad.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:51 PM
You assumed I had no knowledge of Discoridians or Discordianism. You assumed that I knew nothing of this. If you had not assumed such, you would not have told me to learn about it or get to know Discordians.

THAT is what you assumed, babycakes.

And your posts have challenged this opinion....how, exactly? You seem unware of the Principia Discordia, which consequently means you are unaware of the Joshua Norton Cabal, the Pentabarf, a Sermon on Ethics and Love, the Aneristic Delusion and a whole host of other things that are central to Discordian thought.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:56 PM
The difference? Wicca was not invented by two guys on drugs as a joke.

No, it was invented by a rather odd Englishman, as I recall. And several other religions have had far more dubious beginnings, especially in more recent times. Though I could easily say "why take the word of a carpenter who thinks his mother had him by Virgin Birth and he is the son of God?" Or why trust a bunch of poems written by a blind man 200 years after the event? I wouldn't though, because that is disrespectful.

Why do you place so much stock on the origin of the message? If it is essentially not a violent, messianic or apocalyptic one, then I cannot see why this bothers you? The former are the ones I would watch, if I were you.

Infinite Grey
November 26th, 2006, 10:58 PM
Who need a steady diet of whiskey. Come pet the Discordian people, I'm right here...


purty purty discordian
\
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/spezial/Fool/ma.gif

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 10:58 PM
If I made a religion about Macgyver, I bet you'd say *I* was stupid.

So?

Eris was in fact a Greek goddess. You can read the Iliad if you want all the gory details. If you want worship McGyver, I don't really care, so long as you don't end up harming others because of it.

Oh, and if you want a really silly religion, try the Church of Google. Yes, it is real. No, I will not debate their merits or lack of them.

Simon Moon
November 26th, 2006, 11:00 PM
Minerva, you said, "Hey, I don't care what your answer is. I suggest, though, you learn the rules of MW first."

If you don't care what the answer was, then why did you jump on my ass about my answer? Apparently you DID care.

As far as the board goes - my life wouldn't come to an end if I got tossed off of a pagan message board. I've been tossed off sites before, because I say things that aren't always politically correct. I don't come here all that often anyway. Ooooh, are the politically-correct police going to come to my house and haul me off in handcuffs? Please.

And as far as this goes: "Maybe you should read my posts before getting on that high horse."

I'll get on whatever high horse I want to - and I'll do it because you seem to get something from it - attention, maybe? At any rate, you will not stop me. Once again, are you going to come to my house and pry my keyboard out of my hands and say BAD REDHEAD! You have to go for a week without Internet!

No, it won't matter what happens. As Gandhi said, you can arrest me, throw me in jail, beat me, torture me, break my bones and even kill me. Then you will have my dead body.

NOT MY OBEDIENCE.

Yeshuah bar Joseph had the same attitude.

Jeez, its only a message board.

And if you keep getting chucked off Pagan forums, perhaps you should rethink how you act on them? Social norms are not often the best place to start a serious ethical theory from, but if among people with disparate interests you are still getting the boot, well....

Whitewolf
November 27th, 2006, 12:32 AM
No, it was invented by a rather odd Englishman, as I recall. And several other religions have had far more dubious beginnings, especially in more recent times. Though I could easily say "why take the word of a carpenter who thinks his mother had him by Virgin Birth and he is the son of God?" Or why trust a bunch of poems written by a blind man 200 years after the event? I wouldn't though, because that is disrespectful.

Why do you place so much stock on the origin of the message? If it is essentially not a violent, messianic or apocalyptic one, then I cannot see why this bothers you? The former are the ones I would watch, if I were you.

Very well said. I would never insult any person's beliefs or resort to calling them names. Its rude and disrespectful. I also see no need to sterotype and make generalizations about any religion [or race].

Simon Moon
November 27th, 2006, 06:15 AM
Thanks. It was also kind of the point, as many people see it. Discordian ideology is radically egalitarian and the founders (who, contrary to belief were not JUST Hill and Thornley) were anarchists and libertarians - every religion was founded by people who were considered "insane" at their time, and certainly from a rationalist viewpoint. By admitting right up to being irrational, paradoxic etc it was showing up other religions, sure, but it was also making a statement - that leaders CANNOT be trusted and you should be your own leader. Are you going to follow a pair of hippies? Probably not.

Thats why Discordianiam has no real hierarchy, another thing people find disconcerting. Well, the Joshua Norton Cabal does and has outlined one for the POEE, but you can pretty much insert yourself anywhere along the chain. Or create your own, if you do not feel that meets your requirements. That was explicity referred to in the Principia Discordia. As well as one of the things I find highly attractive about it, because I think I should have the final word on my spiritual development, not some "arcane master" or sage, who is probably laughing behind my back most of the time (face it. If you were Mr Miyagi, you'd be making your "student" do bizzare things just to see if they would).

But, like I've said, all this is pretty much in the Principia Discordia. The Illuminatus! trilogy, the Summa Discordia and the Apocrypha Discordia are also worth the read, however.

Wolfpoet
November 27th, 2006, 07:39 AM
had I gone into any of the other Path forums and talked about those religions in the way people have talked about Discordians, I'd of been banned. Quite rightly too.

People don't like Discordians because Discordians don't conform, they never stop asking questions, never stop pushing the boundaries and never accept blind dogma.

I had a conversation a while ago with a Catholic, we got onto paganism and he was telling me that Wicca isn't a true religion, that it's all just made up.

Here we have a bunch of Wiccans saying the same thing about Discordianism. The irony is killing me.

LadyWinter
November 27th, 2006, 09:39 AM
Computer 600.00
Internet access - 19.99

The chance to hear what wacky thoughts echo in closed minds - priceless

Discordians that I have met......I like
People with closed minds and irritating attitudes come in all religions....and usually with much less of a sense of humor than your average discordian.

My opinion
Winter

Knate
November 27th, 2006, 11:26 AM
I was unaware you knew what made a Real Discordian. Perhaps you could enlighten us? Mayhaps you would like to cite your imaginary authority for you making such a grand judgement. Were you an original member of the Joshua Norton Cabal? Did you goof around with RAW and Hakim Bey and Thornley back in the 70s and 80s?

And the origins of a religion have little bearing on its current practice. After all, most "religions" practiced by modern Pagans are based on even more scant sources and romantic interpretations of long buried history. I hold no grudge against them for that, despite them being invented a few years after our own humble faith. Practically every Discordian accepts that two stoned bums invented their religion. That doesn't invalidate some of its ideas though.

Oh, I forgot, only Discordians like you claim to be can make judgements about others. Like you just did about Paganism? Oh let me guess, thats not judgement, just fact, I heard this song before.

Knate
November 27th, 2006, 11:29 AM
Eris was in fact a Greek goddess. You can read the Iliad if you want all the gory details. If you want worship McGyver, I don't really care, so long as you don't end up harming others because of it.

Oh, and if you want a really silly religion, try the Church of Google. Yes, it is real. No, I will not debate their merits or lack of them.

I know Eris was of Greek origin, even though there is not a whole lot original info, besides the Discordian idea of "shes a hot goth chick".

But its true, many see her as a symbolic figure. Like I said.

nomadicdragon
November 27th, 2006, 12:06 PM
It would be silly to fear someone because of their beliefs.. or for that matter to fear someone that you know online only.

I do have a problem with anyone that joins a community with the purpose of creating havoc and chaos, and to be rude.

There's no excuse for being intentionally rude and cruel. Not even in the name of trying to "open" people's eyes.

Not saying that only discordians do this, in the years that I've been a member of MW, I've seen a variety of people come and go that have had similar purposes. They have come under different names and guises, but really for the same purpose.

Wolfpoet
November 27th, 2006, 12:14 PM
I know Eris was of Greek origin, even though there is not a whole lot original info, besides the Discordian idea of "shes a hot goth chick".

But its true, many see her as a symbolic figure. Like I said.

I've always seen her as this realy cute Angel-figure in a sexy PVC Nun costume. But then I'm not a "true" Discordian, I'm just a vargr so that probably explains it.

Its a common facet of Human nature to hate and fear what we do not understand, to try and dehumanise and destroy what we percieve as a threat to our world order.

We see it on this very thread, wild and unprovoked attacks on Discordianism. Anti-discordian propoganda and deliberate misunderstanding and re-interpretation. The amusing thing is that the Discordians simply won't care, they have an annoying habit sometimes of writing off people they consider "beyond redemption". Well many of the ones I have met and talk with on a regular basis, it's kinda like a battle traige system. The people they can get the message to and open up are the ones they focus on, they leave the close minded people, that they feel can't get the message, alone.

Me, I'm a stubborn Englishman that tries to wake up and save everyone regardless of how moronic or close minded they are, but then like I said, I'm not a Discordian. Eris isn't in my pantheon but she's a sexy angelic figure with a wardrobe that turns me on, so I tend to take notice of what she has to say.

Knate
November 27th, 2006, 12:18 PM
I've always seen her as this realy cute Angel-figure in a sexy PVC Nun costume. But then I'm not a "true" Discordian, I'm just a vargr so that probably explains it.

Its a common facet of Human nature to hate and fear what we do not understand, to try and dehumanise and destroy what we percieve as a threat to our world order.

We see it on this very thread, wild and unprovoked attacks on Discordianism. Anti-discordian propoganda and deliberate misunderstanding and re-interpretation. The amusing thing is that the Discordians simply won't care, they have an annoying habit sometimes of writing off people they consider "beyond redemption". Well many of the ones I have met and talk with on a regular basis, it's kinda like a battle traige system. The people they can get the message to and open up are the ones they focus on, they leave the close minded people, that they feel can't get the message, alone.

Me, I'm a stubborn Englishman that tries to wake up and save everyone regardless of how moronic or close minded they are, but then like I said, I'm not a Discordian. Eris isn't in my pantheon but she's a sexy angelic figure with a wardrobe that turns me on, so I tend to take notice of what she has to say.



Cause you dont get the irony.

Like I stated before, whats more Discordian than stirring up Discordians?


Its just reversed this time:hahugh:

And you said "they wont care"? Well, judging by this thread, I think they care very much.

Athena-Nadine
November 27th, 2006, 12:53 PM
had I gone into any of the other Path forums and talked about those religions in the way people have talked about Discordians, I'd of been banned. Quite rightly too.

Really, now? And how many people have been banned for creating and posting in all those threads about "Fluffy Bunnies?"

For your edification, people are just as allowed to question and debate the tenets of a particular religion and the behavior of some of its adherents as they are to question and debate the values of an entire country and the bevavior of some of its inhabitants.

Wolfpoet
November 27th, 2006, 01:03 PM
Cause you dont get the irony.

Like I stated before, whats more Discordian than stirring up Discordians?


Its just reversed this time:hahugh:

And you said "they wont care"? Well, judging by this thread, I think they care very much.

Funnily enough, not many people are actualy defending Discordianism and of the ones who are, not many are actualy Discordian.

Wolfpoet
November 27th, 2006, 01:05 PM
Really, now? And how many people have been banned for creating and posting in all those threads about "Fluffy Bunnies?"

For your edification, people are just as allowed to question and debate the tenets of a particular religion and the behavior of some of its adherents as they are to question and debate the values of an entire country and the bevavior of some of its inhabitants.

May I quote you on this on a future date when somebody finaly gets annoyed enough to go to town on certain aspects of Wicca and paganism, in the same way this discussion has done so on Discordianism?

Knate
November 27th, 2006, 01:06 PM
Funnily enough, not many people are actualy defending Discordianism and of the ones who are, not many are actualy Discordian.

The Irony still does apply. Which was my initial point.

Lunacie
November 27th, 2006, 04:10 PM
I'm not personally afraid of them. Should I be? :hahugh:

Actually, I think Discordianism is kind of cool, because sometimes we need some chaos to keep things from "settling" too much. Not to say that I'm going to like every Discordian I meet, but I appreciate that they are out there to stir things up.

Good point - I know I won't like everyone I meet either. I try not to prejudge someone I'm just meeting as someone I won't like.





That being said, as Kallisty pointed out, it's important for everyone to learn to be wise enough to know when to speak, when to listen, when to be diplomatic, and when to stir it up. A lot of people (Discordian and otherwise) haven't quite figured that out yet. ;)

I find people generally fear only what they don't understand.

I agree. If you're not sure whether to speak out or shut up, the wisest thing to do is to shut up until you are sure. Unless you're asking a question, of course. ;)

I fear a few things because I do understand (like tornados and drunk drivers), but it's certainly very common to fear what we don't know.




Here is my 25 cents to the discusion.


3. I don't think that discordianism as a path is a fad but thats my oppinion. Also being a discordian is not a lazy path as a discordian thinks too damn much and works to make people see the true reality of the way the world works. Have you guys read any of LB's or Cain's rants on here. I am sure that they must of put a lot of work into those.



Um, who told them it was their responsibility to make others see "the truth"? The truth is like a mirror, everyone who looks into it will see something different. I don't need anyone else to convince me to believe in their "truth", thank you.



No, it was invented by a rather odd Englishman, as I recall. ...
.

Actually, Gardner took an existing tradition and added a bit of other stuff he had studied, but he didn't "invent" Wicca out of whole cloth.



Very well said. I would never insult any person's beliefs or resort to calling them names. Its rude and disrespectful. I also see no need to sterotype and make generalizations about any religion [or race].

I've learned that I should never say "never" because it will bite me in the butt. http://mysticwicks.com/images/icons/icon10.gif The rest of your post is very good though. It's hard to learn anything new if we stereotype and make generalizations.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:25 PM
I dont fear them,I dislike the way they act and the way they treat others of different faiths,,especially christians.


Daniel,
Noting for the record that some of the harshest treatment of Christians he has witnessed has come from atheists and "Pagans."

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:30 PM
But most of them are not "true Discordians" anyways.

A True Discordian does not spend all their time making sarcastic posts on internet forums. In fact, a majority of "Discordians" you see online are not really true Discordians, but nothing more than attention seekers.

Whats a true Discordian? Well, its not someone who does nothing but make funny comments, thats for sure.

The whole "Discordian" thing became nothing more than a trend lately, a fad if you will, like the "cool kids club".

I mean, the whole Discordian movement was created by 2 guys who were stoned, as a mock religion, who quotes a source of information as " a time travelling anthropologist from the 24th century"

I enjoyed the "Principia Discordia", but I took it for *what it is*, a joke, not something to follow.

Whos scared? No one I bet.


Daniel,
Noting for the record that a "true Discordian" is wise enough to not even try to define what a "true Discordian" is.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:34 PM
And at least with Christians, we do have a God that we worship

Eris.


We have a liturgy

Dinner and a football game.


we have a sacred text

The Principia Discordia.


we have all this stuff which is more than what any Discordian can say.

Actually, you're totally mistaken, and that's about as much as any Discordian can say.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Why do you jump to the defense of Discordians? Are you one yourself? Do you find this threatening, the fact that there are some people who just regard Discordians as completely nuts?

Well, because of course the insistance upon truth and fact are, of course, hallmarks of a Discordian, right?

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:36 PM
Learn this, missy: I am not required to like any particular group if I don't see any reason to. Just because they're Peoples of a sort doesn't mean I have to like them. Period.

Missy?

Are you for real?

If you are, do you think that this kind of slap-face is any good for a reasonable, rational discussion?

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:37 PM
You assumed I had no knowledge of Discoridians or Discordianism. You assumed that I knew nothing of this. If you had not assumed such, you would not have told me to learn about it or get to know Discordians.

THAT is what you assumed, babycakes.

Wow.

I sure hope someone is reporting this stuff.

Daniel,
Hasn't read all the way to the end yet, mind.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:39 PM
Minerva, you said, "Hey, I don't care what your answer is. I suggest, though, you learn the rules of MW first."

If you don't care what the answer was, then why did you jump on my ass about my answer? Apparently you DID care.


You seem familliar.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Well, here I am again..

Theres a few left, at least it says that in their community title or sig.

So what? Did they take a vow of silence or something?

We've been too busy eating dinner and watching football.

Sometimes those 4th quarters drag on forEVER.

Knate
November 27th, 2006, 04:42 PM
We've been too busy eating dinner and watching football.

Sometimes those 4th quarters drag on forEVER.

I hear ya.:hahugh:

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:42 PM
Computer 600.00
Internet access - 19.99

The chance to hear what wacky thoughts echo in closed minds - priceless

http://www.drsynonymous.com/images/mittens.gif

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Really, now? And how many people have been banned for creating and posting in all those threads about "Fluffy Bunnies?"

None that I know of. This could be due to:

1. I rarely venture outside of the Political section

2. Xentor himself uses the phrase, thusly making it legal for the rest of us

Just a thought.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:45 PM
Funnily enough, not many people are actualy defending Discordianism and of the ones who are, not many are actualy Discordian.

Daniel,
Not Discordian, Pagan, Christian, Athiest, Agnostic, confused about his path, inventing his own path, or even bothering to mow the grass beside his path these days.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:46 PM
I hear ya.:hahugh:

Yeah.

As for me, I haven't even had lunch yet.

And it's almost 4pm where I am.


Daniel,
SAD panda.

stella01904
November 27th, 2006, 04:49 PM
I only now noticed the thread title:
"Are people afraid of discordian's?"

Discordian's what?

Temptation
November 27th, 2006, 04:52 PM
This thread is a toolbox.

Just saying.

Oh, and Discordians in my experience are no more and no less scary, interesting, boring, amusing, annoying than any other group of people.

They're just more in your face is all.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 04:54 PM
This thread is a toolbox.

Just saying.

http://www.drsynonymous.com/images/mittens.gif http://www.drsynonymous.com/images/mittens.gif http://www.drsynonymous.com/images/mittens.gif http://www.drsynonymous.com/images/mittens.gif http://www.drsynonymous.com/images/mittens.gif / 5


Daniel,
Got nuttin'.

Vincent Verthaine
November 27th, 2006, 05:37 PM
You assumed I had no knowledge of Discoridians or Discordianism. You assumed that I knew nothing of this. If you had not assumed such, you would not have told me to learn about it or get to know Discordians.

THAT is what you assumed, babycakes.

Actually,you don't have a clue.NO ONE here has.All you have personal assumptions about the subject.
I've been an erisian for over 30 years myself,have corresponded at lengths with Kery Thornley(R.I.P),and a number of other early discordians in the early and mid 90's about the true meaning of discordianism.I've made it my lifes study.
And I still don't understand discordianism.
Which is the way it is supposed to be.

None of you have any idea what a "TRUE DISCORDIAN" is,because every discordian is a true discordian.
NO one here has any right or even enough knowlegde of the subject to say anything definitive about discordianism,which includes my extensive research on it.
I personally have absolutely no clue what discordianisn is supposed to be about.
Which makes me a lot more honest then some of you.
I am quite proud to admit I know nothing about discordianism,and I've been one for decades

I hate to tell some of you this,but none of you know everything.
I am very interested in seeing what some of your reactions would be when others start generalizing some of YOUR paths.

If being a discordian means I'm being annoying,then I do that with pride.
It's a lot better then being an elitist snob who thinks they know everything.
If some of you don't like discordians,that's quite alright.Because some of us don't like you either.


Nice to see that nothing has changed around here.Still the same elistist attitudes,still the same,"I'm a TRUE PAGAN so everything I believe and say must be an applied reality for everyone".

Knate
November 27th, 2006, 05:45 PM
I never even heard of this guy, but I like him.:hahugh:

Simon Moon
November 27th, 2006, 05:45 PM
Oh, I forgot, only Discordians like you claim to be can make judgements about others. Like you just did about Paganism? Oh let me guess, thats not judgement, just fact, I heard this song before.

I don't know where. You seem to make an awful lot of assumptions about me, simply because I am a Discordian. Do you have issues with Discordians? Did one hurt your feelings at some point? Are there any problems you would like to share with us all?

Oh, and nice dodge, btw. I really don't care when a religion was invented or who did so. After all, I follow a religion invented by a couple of doped up hippies, one crazed futurist and a couple of beatniks interested in Zen. You're the one who has the issue here, which your reaction to that little dig just goes to show.

But hey, you've been baiting throughout this whole thread, by your own admission. Why shouldn't I?

:)

goblinhill
November 27th, 2006, 05:45 PM
Vincent you have restored my faith!

I'm not sure what in but it surely feels righteous


Hail Eris, All Hail Discordia

Simon Moon
November 27th, 2006, 05:47 PM
I know Eris was of Greek origin, even though there is not a whole lot original info, besides the Discordian idea of "shes a hot goth chick".

But its true, many see her as a symbolic figure. Like I said.

Actually, there is enough info, from what I have been shown. Not exactly Athena or Zeus here, but hardly an unknown quantity.

And I most certainly don't imagine Eris as any sort of gothic chick. Rock grrls are far more my style, for starters. And I don't think either look was very in 3000 odd years ago. Or suitable for the battlefield.

Simon Moon
November 27th, 2006, 05:49 PM
Cause you dont get the irony.

Like I stated before, whats more Discordian than stirring up Discordians?


Its just reversed this time:hahugh:

And you said "they wont care"? Well, judging by this thread, I think they care very much.

Trolling? Isn't that a ban in these parts?

Simon Moon
November 27th, 2006, 05:52 PM
Actually, Gardner took an existing tradition and added a bit of other stuff he had studied, but he didn't "invent" Wicca out of whole cloth.

True, but I hardly had the time to go into the whole debate about Wicca last night. Just like Discordianism was built on an ancient Greek deity, Rinzai Zen, Taoism and the Surrealist movement, with a pinch of Libertarianism/Anarchism and liberal dose of 1960s counterculture.

But that seems to have only been introduced into the debate by one person so far.

Simon Moon
November 27th, 2006, 05:56 PM
I only now noticed the thread title:
"Are people afraid of discordian's?"

Discordian's what?

Haikus. Deadly things. Seen acolytes stunned at ten paces by a well placed haiku, if thrown correctly by a master. Mordecai Malignatus was a devil for the things, as I recall.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 06:01 PM
I never even heard of this guy, but I like him.:hahugh:

He's a fixture in the community, for sure.

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Each must speak for hirself. My own experience, which is largely limited to this board, is that the most fatuous, manipulative, and venomous people to be found here are all of the discordian genre. I could make a short list of those who have been banned in the modest time I've been a regular visitor to this site, and most of them are/were of the discordian genre.

I say, flush twice to make sure they're truly gone. That's all I'll have to say on this topic.

Actually, the first few to be banned were Discordians, Subgenii or Tacos. After that it was long time people, including but not limited to long time members and subscribers.

Gee thanks for comparing Discordians to a pile of shit you have to try extra hard to flush down the toilet, I'll remember that.

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 06:32 PM
Yeah, that was an awfully crappy thing to say.

I usually just try to brush that sort of thing off, or else it will bowl me over.

It was a rather septic attitude to express, even so.

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 06:34 PM
eh..The ones I know may cause some dislike to others,but in all they are kindhearted and friends with alot of people on here..jmo..Hey LOOK...There's one behind you now...lol:lol:

BOO!!!!! _wedgie_ :cheers:

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 06:38 PM
Discordians are cute little creatures :)

So are you :cheers:

Philosophia
November 27th, 2006, 06:44 PM
I only now noticed the thread title:
"Are people afraid of discordian's?"
Discordian's what?

Damn...there goes my grammar record *snort* Geesh, its not like anybody else has made a mistake...no, but if its me! *roar* Lets all jump on MM!

Tsk, tsk...this thread is not a toolbox, btw. Don't like it, don't post here...

MM, who is in a very grumpy mood this morning...

Daniel
November 27th, 2006, 06:45 PM
Damn...there goes my grammar record *snort* Geesh, its not like anybody else has made a mistake...no, but if its me! *roar* Lets all jump on MM!

Tsk, tsk...this thread is not a toolbox, btw. Don't like it, don't post here...

MM, who is in a very grumpy mood this morning...

I think that might've been meant as a joke.

Daniel,
Just guessing.

Philosophia
November 27th, 2006, 06:47 PM
I think that might've been meant as a joke.
Daniel,
Just guessing.

Damn...still in a grumpy mood.

Wolfpoet
November 27th, 2006, 06:50 PM
*gives MM some chocalate*

Philosophia
November 27th, 2006, 06:53 PM
*gives MM some chocalate*

Thank you...still grumpy, but with chocolate smeared over my face and melting in my mouth...it makes me feel a little better :D

Zibblsnrt
November 27th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Many of you need a reminder:


2. Debate the idea, don't attack the poster. Calling someone "neocon filth"/"Liberal traitor"/"Fluffy bunny"/"idiot"/"dumbass"/"moron"/"crackpot"/"conservative arsehole"/"big loser", actually, any name-calling whatsoever is not a refutation of an idea, it's a verbal (yah, yah...typed, written, etc) attack of another member of this community and it will not be tolerated. Notice that we are talking about verbal attacks between members. You are free to call, for example, George Bush...a big loser, until the time comes when Mr. Bush joins the community. Then he must be respected like every other member. Also, no condescending stuff. Calling someone sweetypie, honeybunch, hun, missy, might just be the way you talk, but it can also imply a condescending tone. We have no way of knowing which way you are using the term...so if you are addressing someone directly, just use their username.

3. Racism, sexism, age discrimination, the outright bashing of a path or religion, etc is unacceptable. Debating the tenets of a religion is one thing...calling all Christians evil or saying that all Pagans are going to hell is not allowed. Proselytizing is not allowed in any form. No conversion or 'witnessing' is allowed. We are not here to spread our various religions. We are here to be friends, love and respect each other, and most importantly...learn. Tolerance is key. All religions and Paths are welcome here providing their tenets do not violate any laws or our rules. Calling someones religion "false", no matter how wrong or silly it may seem to you is not allowed.

I'm beginning to see fewer and fewer reasons that this thread should remain open. Give me some: start behaving yourselves.

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 07:02 PM
I don't think anyone is "afraid" of Discordians. I know some are sick of the arrogant pompus attitudes that some of them potray, but thats about it.
When was I arrogant and pompous, I must have missed that.


But most of them are not "true Discordians" anyways.
Do you have the "This is a True Discordian" checklist, because I seem to have misplaced mine.


A True Discordian does not spend all their time making sarcastic posts on internet forums. In fact, a majority of "Discordians" you see online are not really true Discordians, but nothing more than attention seekers.
Um, you mean like the sarcastic post you just made, right there? I am totally an attention whore, I am not about to argue that point :yayah: That fact does not mean I am not a Discordian, though. Lots of people seek attention for a variety of reasons. I mean, lots of scientologists are entertainers, does that mean all scientologists are attention seekers?


Whats a true Discordian? Well, its not someone who does nothing but make funny comments, thats for sure.
Some of them are, I think, but if you think the funny is only funny, you missed the funny and the point.


The whole "Discordian" thing became nothing more than a trend lately, a fad if you will, like the "cool kids club".
Not yet, but it's getting there. Then we will all makes tons of flax on the tshirts.


I mean, the whole Discordian movement was created by 2 guys who were stoned, as a mock religion, who quotes a source of information as " a time travelling anthropologist from the 24th century"
Um, thanks for buying the disinformation, written in the forward, by someone other than either of the 2 founders.

It was the late 1950's, early 1960's, lots of people were stoned, man. Lots of people that started lots of things.

It is not a mock religion, not sure where you got that. Just because it is a religion disguised as a joke disguised as a religion doesn't mean it isn't real.


I enjoyed the "Principia Discordia", but I took it for *what it is*, a joke, not something to follow.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/82.php
From page 00075 of the Principis Discordia.
http://www.principiadiscordia.com/book/images/JustAHaHa.gif


Whos scared? No one I bet.
Good, that's the way we like it :stomp:

Whitewolf
November 27th, 2006, 07:20 PM
[QUOTE=Vincent Verthaine;2908970]

I hate to tell some of you this,but none of you know everything.I am very interested in seeing what some of your reactions would be when others start generalizing some of YOUR paths. [QUOTE]


It's ironic. That's what it is. I'm sure if I made a nasty and dis respectful comment about other people's religions and beliefs they would be reacting the same way. That's why I don't go on these [or any forums] and start name calling. I won't lower myself to those people levels.

Knate
November 27th, 2006, 07:29 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol:



See ya!

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 08:16 PM
Well, to be perfectly blunt...

I've always, always regarded the Discordians as being people who chose to be Discordians because they can't be arsed to actually do any work to develop a relationship with a specific deity, they were too wishy-washy to choose just one path, and they just want to be a mishmash of everything and not have to work at learning about rituals or traditions or any such thing as that. "Oooh, I'm a Discordian! I can do whatever I want! Which means I can just SAY I'm a pagan but I never bother doing rituals or studying any kind of sacred texts or developing a relationship with deity, etc! I can go around and not be Christian, but I won't quite be anything else either because I just can't commit and I can't be ARSED to commit!"

Spoiled brats of the pagan world, I thought. I really don't have a lot of respect for Discordians. They just strike me as spiritually lazy.

Mish mash is yiddish for Hodge Podge so you are partly right.

Um, I have no idea where you got the rest of that, that was weird, and for me to call something weird is saying something. I am commited to Eris, in my own way. Saying that because I don't have big complicated rituals I am spiritually lazy seems an enormous stretch of the imagination. Spirit is on the inside, outward manifestations, like rituals, are ways to get at the inside. Just because mine do not look like yours doesn't invalidate them. Just like Catholics and Methodists are both Christians. One has a ritual with music and insense, a snack of a dry cracker and some wine, a little exercise with the stand up/sit down/kneel, the other is boring. Each have their own worth, for instance some people like to be bored on a Sunday morning.

I was doing whatever I wanted and paying the price long before I found other Discordians and Erisians to identify with. I have kind of dissociated myself from other pagans, for my own personal reasons.

Here's another bit you missed. We read lots of sacred texts. We also write lots of sacred texts. I have links in my sig, plus you can look through this subforum. Plus I think we have a links thread and if we don't we can supply lots of links.

You should read Adler. The Discordians got the neo pagan movement going in the US. Our first sacred book was written around 1959, when was your first sacred book written?

Athena-Nadine
November 27th, 2006, 08:24 PM
None that I know of. This could be due to:

1. I rarely venture outside of the Political section

2. Xentor himself uses the phrase, thusly making it legal for the rest of us

Just a thought.


Every so often a thread pops up about it in Just Pagan or in the Paths:Wicca forum.
There is no difference, that I can see, between calling some people "fluffy bunnies" and calling some people "fundies."

Semele
November 27th, 2006, 08:29 PM
Now, if one happens to be a discordian admin, one might just find themselves S.O.L....

Haven't you met Illuminatus? He was both very successfully and well liked in the position. Life got too busy rather than him being let go or whatever. There are admins, inculding current ones, who were asked to step down because of their personal feelings interfering with decisions, but not the discordian one.

My thoughts on discordianism...I'm just bored with it. Be discordian, be proud...but just be real and stop reminding us with each post that you are discordian and us outsiders don't get it. *shrugs* My thoughts for what they are worth.

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 08:31 PM
I HAVE known them. That's why I came to the assessment that I did. It's BECAUSE of all the silly Discordians I've run into since I first started MY pagan walk back in 1988 that I came to have no respect for them.

And at least with Christians, we do have a God that we worship, we have a liturgy, we have a sacred text, we have all this stuff which is more than what any Discordian can say.

OK, so you are comparing a religion that is about 50 years old with one that is about 2000 years old. The Christians didn't have an official bible until 300 or 400 AD. At the beginning the rituals were just a bunch of people gathering in somebody's house to talk about Jesus.

We think silly is good. We have a goddess named Eris. We have sacred texts. We have important personal rituals we do. Just because you don't know about them doesn't mean they don't exist.

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 08:41 PM
Actually, quite many Discordians I spoken with are basicaly Atheists, who think all Pagans are "new age fluffys" . For lack of a better term.

To many Discordians, Eris is nothing more than a symbolic figure, and not a actual Goddess.

And I wont even mention what various Discordian forums say about us here at MW._inabox_

Well, there is no argument like Discordians debating amongst themsleves what a Discordian is.

There some who think of it as more of a philosophy, some more like a religion. I know an athiest that sends his kids to Sunday School, the whole church thing, because he thinks it is a good way for them to learn some things about the world.

We have said far worse things about each other than we have about MW'ers, some of which post post at both 'Discordian' forums as well as MW. You can now climb out of your box safely. Sort of. :cheers:

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 08:47 PM
The thing you'll notice about Discordians is they will most times piss you off. they will anger you, frustrate you, confuse you and if your REALY unlucky, make life a living hell till you go away or stop arguing.

Sooner or later, if your open-minded enough, you'll stop to wonder WHY those Discordian types are the above list of anti-social traits. In that moment of self-realisation you'll figure out a few home truths and their work is done.

It's the people who never question, who never figure out why Discordians manage to hit a nerve every damn time that I tend to feel sorry for.

But then I'm persona-non-grata on the board Knate so cleverly didn't mention, sorry I mean boards, so don't listen to my musings.

Don't be so sensitive, we love you even if you are a pain, we show love in strange ways, you should be used to that by now. :hugz:

Yeah, most of us haven't learned to pull our punches, but then there are also some very sweet people. It is actually some of the sweetest Discordians you have to watch out for _inabox_

Semele
November 27th, 2006, 08:48 PM
What attention? I just enjoy prodding you.


what was that about those rules you keep mentioning? Prodding is close to flaming yeah?

Philosophia
November 27th, 2006, 08:51 PM
what was that about those rules you keep mentioning? Prodding is close to flaming yeah?

Um, no. If I was to flame, I would. Prodding isn't flaming....
So I kept within the rules....:)

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 08:56 PM
Like I said, some have no spiritual beliefs. "Atheists"

And posting 60 posts a day, with each being nothing more than a witty one-liner that Discordians are known for is far from lazy.

Really it is. I'd get tired of it long before 60 posts.

Here's the thing, most of the ones most guilty of posting a bunch of one line posts are some of the same ones who post long rants, stories and other material. If you could ever keep track of a busy night at one of 'our' forums you would be amazed at the speed of the typing and the posts appearing. I can ttpe fairly fast, about 40 to 50 wpm and I can't keep up at all.

Plus, some of our one liners are pretty funny :hehehehe:

Lunacie
November 27th, 2006, 08:58 PM
Um, no. If I was to flame, I would. Prodding isn't flaming....
So I kept within the rules....:)

It's a very fine line where I'm looking from. (...bad grammar, I know ;) ). And I think you broke the rules yourself a few times in this thread. (...yes, I actually "reported" the whole thread - it was easier that way :( )

covenofkeys
November 27th, 2006, 09:00 PM
Whoa! People! What Have I Just Walked Into? C'mon Lets Just Chill Yes!

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 09:01 PM
If I made a religion about Macgyver, I bet you'd say *I* was stupid.

So?

Where do I sign up? I have had a crush on him since he was on General Hospital :spaceman:

I try really hard to not call anyone stupid or their path. I think you might be better off with Bugs Bunny, there are references to Shakespeare, Wagner and I forget what else, sorry, I keep getting interupted by RL stuff like dinner and people screaming, "MOMMY!!!!" :awilly:

Philosophia
November 27th, 2006, 09:02 PM
It's a very fine line where I'm looking from. (...bad grammar, I know ;) ). And I think you broke the rules yourself a few times in this thread. (...yes, I actually "reported" the whole thread - it was easier that way :( )

If I broke the rules, I should've been reported. I don't want this thread to close because myself and others can't play nicely. Prodding isn't flaming, but it can be close to it if I start on the person themselves. I prod during debates because it gets people thinking.
In my posts, I didn't name call nor did I openly flame the poster. I questioned her opinions though, which is very much in the rules.

covenofkeys
November 27th, 2006, 09:05 PM
um...guys please! do we gotta argue with eachother all of the time? im trying to cheer people up, and instead you is all miserable, not good! lol ill moony you all if youre not careful! lmao ~sighs~

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 09:14 PM
OK, for the most part, I'll take it...:hahugh: I slightly disagree, but, still, its good enough for me.

Agreed, but you can't deny, some are just idiots.

If you dont think it was a trend or a fad, you should have seen MW over the summer. Thats all I'm gonna say.

And I know for a fact, some *are* Athiests.

Many that are online.

But to make a debate about that, thats for a new thread.

You gave real awnsers, which I respect.

p.s. whats more Discordian, then stirring up Discordians.

Not much.


golden apples taste pretty good, well except for the brown parts where the writing was.

I got to go, I'm late for choir practice.

Many people are idiots, Discordians aren't any different that way. Pick a groups of people at random and some will be idiots. As far as I can tell, nothing to be done about.

Oh, well, over the summer, there were lots of Discordians over the summer posting here, then some got banned, then some other people got banned, then lots of Discordians got bored and went to other places. It may have been a bit of something, I wouldn't call it a fad, for us to post here, but that's not exactly what you said before.

covenofkeys
November 27th, 2006, 09:20 PM
_wedgie_ :sadman::fpcsucks:goodgrief:alol::geez::holycow::wah2:_taparoo__inabox_

eldora_avalon
November 27th, 2006, 09:39 PM
I don't know where. You seem to make an awful lot of assumptions about me, simply because I am a Discordian. Do you have issues with Discordians? Did one hurt your feelings at some point? Are there any problems you would like to share with us all?

Oh, and nice dodge, btw. I really don't care when a religion was invented or who did so. After all, I follow a religion invented by a couple of doped up hippies, one crazed futurist and a couple of beatniks interested in Zen. You're the one who has the issue here, which your reaction to that little dig just goes to show.

But hey, you've been baiting throughout this whole thread, by your own admission. Why shouldn't I?

:)

Lots of Beatniks wrote lots of books, Zen being a major theme, as well as O:MF as in Kesey, lots of other things that are not limited to Discordians, but have become a part of it, started in coffee shops and other places in the 1950's.

Twinkle
November 27th, 2006, 11:14 PM
I personally find this thread distasteful.

I can honestly tell you that some of the most intelligent, witty, sensitive people I've met online are Discordians.

Their sense of fairness is unequaled, and what you see is what you get.

We should all have these qualities....not this petty putdown of a Path.

I'd like to add that there are bad eggs in every path....anyone remember the scandal with the Catholic priests?

To make a judgement against a path because you don't like a few people that claim to follow it is completely disrespectful.

Snapdragon
November 27th, 2006, 11:26 PM
The question (which is at hand, posted as the title) is not about "the Discordian path." It is phrased somewhat vaguely, about "Discordians." "Discordians" do not = "Discordian path."

Bethra
November 27th, 2006, 11:27 PM
:cheers: I'm really getting sick of the attitude that seams to have developed around here. It's still meant to be a Spiritual Sanctuary and welcoming of all faiths. It was once a place with an open mind. Illuminatus probably wouldn't be accepted by the community any more though even if he was a really cool guy

SammieAnn
November 28th, 2006, 12:08 AM
:cheers: I'm really getting sick of the attitude that seams to have developed around here. It's still meant to be a Spiritual Sanctuary and welcoming of all faiths. It was once a place with an open mind. Illuminatus probably wouldn't be accepted by the community any more though even if he was a really cool guy

You and me both. I am totally disgusted by the fact that it aparently is ok to bash discordians and discordianism as a path. I thought the pagan community was suposed to be more open minded then this. I guess I was wrong.

Kallisty
November 28th, 2006, 12:41 AM
You and me both. I am totally disgusted by the fact that it aparently is ok to bash discordians and discordianism as a path. I thought the pagan community was suposed to be more open minded then this. I guess I was wrong.

Don't worry. Things have a funny way of turning around - just give someone long enough to talk and ramble and bash around, and eventually they shoot themselves in the foot.

I so live for that moment, especially the priceless look on their face of "how the heck did that happen?" Makes it all worthwhile in the end.

And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is what makes some people afraid of Discordians, at least on occasion.

Kall the sleepy

SilverClaw
November 28th, 2006, 12:42 AM
Wow this thread has gotten lively since I last posted..

(and hello to all those I have not seen around here in awhile :wave: )

Xirian
November 28th, 2006, 12:56 AM
I guess I don't know exactly what difference there is between a discordian and other pagan religious paths that I haven't taken the time to research, and therefore, am not fearful of them. I suppose I could do some research, but I'm still researching information about my own path.

I also suppose I could lump discordians together and say that I have a problem with them, and that I cower in fear of them, or that I feel something else about them, but what would that accomplish?

I don't find this thread distasteful, just a bit unnecessary.

I prefer to look at people as individuals if that is at all possible.

Vincent Verthaine
November 28th, 2006, 03:17 AM
I think the real question should of been,not why people are afraidof discordianism, but why they are some people are having trouble understanding what discordianism is about.

The majority of pagan paths here are heavily influenced by western thought which puts a major preference to the use of the "rational mind' to understand reality.But not everything in reality can be rationalized.

Discordianism is not meant to be understood by the rational mind,it is meant to be understood by the[i]irrational mind[/]which is just as valid,and necessary as the rational mind,but has been pretty much ignored by western belief structures,but very well understood by the eastern ones.I have no problem discussing and explaining discordian concepts with taoists and buddhists.

Anyone who claims to know what discordianism is truly about,who speaks of "True Discodians",who think they "get the joke",is eather pulling your leg,or talking out their arse.
The moment someone thinks they have all the answers,Eris changes the questions.Such is the Way of Chaos.

Some people here are trying to rationalize discordianism,but are finding out that it's very nature makes that impossible..They try to understand it,but can't.

Humans have a nasty habit of hating or fearing what it does not understand.

Discordianism isn't meant to be understood.It is meant to be experienced.It must be felt.


For those of you that have generalized all discordians as being "annoying",while I will grant that every discordian you have met has been "annoying' may be true,may I offer an alternate point of view and state that every discordian you've met found the need to annoy you.

Let's face it,if one hundred people point at an organism and say "that's a jack-ass" chances are,it's a jack-ass.
Some of you should be a little more carefull about generalizing people.
If you have no problem saying that discordians are annoying,how far is it before you have no problem saying muslems are terrorists,blacks are criminals,mexicans are lazy,jews are greedy......

Teresa
November 28th, 2006, 05:10 AM
The majority of pagan paths here are heavily influenced by western thought which puts a major preference to the use of the "rational mind' to understand reality.But not everything in reality can be rationalized.

Humans have a nasty habit of hating or fearing what it does not understand.

Discordianism isn't meant to be understood.It is meant to be experienced.It must be felt.




Yes Indeed ! Fear of the unknown brings out some unsavory sides of people as One can see from reading this thread.

Teresa
November 28th, 2006, 05:17 AM
I can honestly tell you that some of the most intelligent, witty, sensitive people I've met online are Discordians.

Their sense of fairness is unequaled, and what you see is what you get.

We should all have these qualities....not this petty putdown of a Path.

I'd like to add that there are bad eggs in every path....anyone remember the scandal with the Catholic priests?

To make a judgement against a path because you don't like a few people that claim to follow it is completely disrespectful.

I agree. As I stated way earlier in the thread one bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch. Take the time to get to know someone before judging them.
I heard something once about people in glass houses being careful throwing rocks , but have forgotten how that ended.

eldora_avalon
November 28th, 2006, 05:47 AM
Um, who told them it was their responsibility to make others see "the truth"? The truth is like a mirror, everyone who looks into it will see something different. I don't need anyone else to convince me to believe in their "truth", thank you.

Actually, Gardner took an existing tradition and added a bit of other stuff he had studied, but he didn't "invent" Wicca out of whole cloth.


Telling others they are free is part of our path.

According to some sources, Gardner did pretty much make up the whole thing. One claim is that the whole 'skyclad' thing had more to do with him being a nudist, which is cool, nudity doesn't bother me. I forget all the details. He may have done what he said he did, he may have sources other than those he claimed. I can get the other details if you want, or someone else ITT may have them handy.

Philosophia
November 28th, 2006, 08:01 AM
Let me be clear on this since people are finding this thread to be distasteful (and screw my grammar. I'm not writing a bloody uni. essay, y'know):

The reason I asked the questions I have is simple. Lately, and not just here, I've been seeing a lot of people put down discordians (yes, discordians not "discordianism") and it came across, to me, as fear of the unknown. Now I know some in RL that I have great respect for even though we butt heads more often than not. I do this with everybody and yet we still have a great respect for each other. The fear I am seeing and even disliking the discordians is something that I am concerned about. I don't know why even though I'm not discordian.

The anger and dislike against discordians here does have me concerned. I wasn't expecting everybody to like them but to openly disrespect the path had me seeing red. The debate earlier in this thread was a direct cause of this and, with a combination of the Australian heat here, I was ready to defend discordians to a point where I was starting to be ashamed of myself. I won't apologize to the other member because I think they deserved it but I will apologize towards the other MW people who witnessed and read it. I didn't flame but I did prod. So I apologize for derailing the thread and hurting other people in the process.

I'm not here to pass judgment of discordianism. I simply wanted a thread where people can express themselves *respectfully* about why they are either angry at discordians, wanting to express their opinion on how much they enjoyed, or anything else relating to this thread.

I like some discordians, even though I think many have figured it out. I can't say every single one because I don't know them all but the ones I do know I like. They make me think, feel and even contemplate. I have butted heads with them, I have disliked their opinions, and they have made me so mad with anger. But they made me think about myself, my opinions and who I am. I know it sounds self-centered and it probably is, but this is what they made me feel. I thank them for this.

So when I see them being disrespected, it angers me because I do respect them a lot. Just like Christianity. I have many kind hearted friends who are Christian and I respect them because they have helped me. Just like discordians, I will defend them as well. This is who I am and I won't apologize for it. But will apologize for the outburst earlier because I don't think it was warranted and I will blame it partially on the heat here in RL (its damn hot here...I hate summer).

Bringing it back on topic, the reason I brought this up was to satisfy intellectual curiosity. I'm not brilliant at expressing myself sometimes so thats why I suck at grammar (and really, I don't give a shit) but I do feel that a lot of opinions and thoughts have been expressed which we can work on. Getting the opinions out in the open and learning about "why, what, how" is the only way people are ever going to learn. So in a way, while creating this thread was self-serving, I think we have learnt a bit here (even the disrespect shown).

So thats my little piece. Rip it apart, ignore it, I don't care. I just thought I better clarify my position and hopefully apologize for my rude behavior beforehand.

Thank you :hugz:

Whitewolf
November 28th, 2006, 08:46 AM
:cheers: I'm really getting sick of the attitude that seams to have developed around here.

You and me both. It makes me sick hearing others bash someone because of their beliefs. I don't judge anyone. Its not my place to tell people their beliefs are wrong.. Live and let live.

Temptation
November 28th, 2006, 09:03 AM
So thats my little piece. Rip it apart, ignore it, I don't care. I just thought I better clarify my position and hopefully apologize for my rude behavior beforehand.

Thank you :hugz:


What rude behaviour? Maybe I've been hanging around Discordians too long but I didn't see anything rude in your behaviour. :)

Daniel
November 28th, 2006, 09:06 AM
I definitely liked that you started the thread, MM.

Any distaste I had was for some of the "Discordians suck" reactions I was seeing, along with the unwillingness of certain other parties to actually discuss anything.

I think you did good work.

Kallisty
November 28th, 2006, 09:17 AM
I think the real question should of been,not why people are afraidof discordianism, but why they are some people are having trouble understanding what discordianism is about.

The majority of pagan paths here are heavily influenced by western thought which puts a major preference to the use of the "rational mind' to understand reality.But not everything in reality can be rationalized.

Discordianism is not meant to be understood by the rational mind,it is meant to be understood by the[i]irrational mind[/]which is just as valid,and necessary as the rational mind,but has been pretty much ignored by western belief structures,but very well understood by the eastern ones.I have no problem discussing and explaining discordian concepts with taoists and buddhists.

Anyone who claims to know what discordianism is truly about,who speaks of "True Discodians",who think they "get the joke",is eather pulling your leg,or talking out their arse.
The moment someone thinks they have all the answers,Eris changes the questions.Such is the Way of Chaos.

Some people here are trying to rationalize discordianism,but are finding out that it's very nature makes that impossible..They try to understand it,but can't.

Humans have a nasty habit of hating or fearing what it does not understand.

Discordianism isn't meant to be understood.It is meant to be experienced.It must be felt.


For those of you that have generalized all discordians as being "annoying",while I will grant that every discordian you have met has been "annoying' may be true,may I offer an alternate point of view and state that every discordian you've met found the need to annoy you.

Let's face it,if one hundred people point at an organism and say "that's a jack-ass" chances are,it's a jack-ass.
Some of you should be a little more carefull about generalizing people.
If you have no problem saying that discordians are annoying,how far is it before you have no problem saying muslems are terrorists,blacks are criminals,mexicans are lazy,jews are greedy......

And this sums it up - for now. Five minutes from now, who knows?

Agaliha
November 28th, 2006, 09:21 AM
What rude behaviour? Maybe I've been hanging around Discordians too long but I didn't see anything rude in your behaviour. :)

I didn't either. I don't think it was you that was rude, but the other posts you were responding to -- in the beginning of the thread.

covenofkeys
November 28th, 2006, 09:30 AM
ok i guess my mooneying failed to work then!! lol ya boring bunch! well im gonna go get a coffee and have a cigarette, as i cant cheer anyone up! anyone fancy a coffee? lol

on a serious note{yes i can be serious too} i thought this thread seemed to go way off track..but i guess that has come to be expected now, but still, i say : to each their own way, it bothers me not.

~goes off to get the cigarette and the coffee~

Lunacie
November 28th, 2006, 09:50 AM
Nope, not a uni essay, but clear grammar and punctuation helps get the message across with less misunderstanding, eh? Although it's too easy to use "bad grammar" as a strawman argument to make the other poster's point seem less pertinent.

I've always wondered if it's actually derailing a thread when the OP takes it off topic or if they're just changing the direction? I think the derailment in this case was more a matter of a personal debate rather than sticking to the actual topic though. I humbly admit to having done something similar at least once - or twice - myself in the past. http://mysticwicks.com/images/icons/icon11.gif

I have found that when I find myself reacting that way, the odds are that I'm taking things too personally - or that someone else is making personal remarks about me instead of the topic - and that it's best to report it to the admins (or mods on other boards) and let them sort it out, because chances are they won't take it all as personally. Problem is that I've always been very impatient (I do have ADHD) and I hate having to wait for them to share their perspective. ;)

Sorry I don't really have anything to add to the original topic at this time.

Brightshores
November 28th, 2006, 09:54 AM
I agree. As I stated way earlier in the thread one bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch. Take the time to get to know someone before judging them.
Wasn't it one apple that started the whole thing? :) A golden one, if I recall correctly.

Seriously - your point is a good one.


I heard something once about people in glass houses being careful throwing rocks, but have forgotten how that ended.
I think it involved lots of stitches at the ER... ;)

Xirian
November 28th, 2006, 10:20 AM
I guess I see, now, why you posted this thread Minerva. I can't say that I break all the members on MW down into little pagan groups, unless the topic actually requires me to do so.

I don't have trouble understanding what discordianism is about. But I've also never cared to study about that path or many other pagan paths that I see on this forum, either.

You know, I believe I did comment on a thread by a discordian, but I didn't feel that I was benefiting from the conversation or that it was benefiting my spiritual path (the main reason I'm on this forum), so I moved on. A few weeks later I came back to find that the thread had been locked, because someone thought they were proselytizing.

I don't believe I became annoyed with them, but I certainly wasn't going to waste my time on a thread I thought provided nothing for me and that I felt was a waste of the little time that I do get to spend here. I don't tend to get bent out of shape by the way people behave around here unless they are disrespecting me personally.

I most certainly wasn't fearful of that person either. At first I was wondering what they were trying to get at, but realized that as I grow older, I become less interested in what some people are trying to get at. Generally, if it isn't stated in the first comment of the post in a clear, concise way, or if I can't discern the reason behind the madness quickly enough, I move on. I suppose that's the intolerant side of me. I don't like my time to be wasted if I can help it.

Yet there are other times when I'm in a particular mood where I don't mind it and can learn a lot about myself in the process. I guess it just depends on the day really. I was given my own personal stikfa in my fight against something or other once (I can't remember now), and that was the most bizarre encounter I had ever faced on this forum. I doubt anything anyone else dishes out in my direction, will be more bizarre than that. And truth be known, I wouldn't be able to tell you their spiritual path at all. They were just a person posting to me, that's all. I guess it just goes with the territory. Had I not exposed myself to internet forums, I wouldn't be running across any other pagan paths. And how boring would that be?


Humans have a nasty habit of hating or fearing what it does not understand.
I supposed this could have discribed me years ago, when I was a teenager, but on the path I'm on now, this isn't really the case, especially when it comes to religion. I may not understand something, but I'm not automatically fearful of it either. Generally I'll try to find out more about it, if I feel it's worth my time. But I do realize this does describe some people.

I feel this should really be about the individual. But I guess most of this as already been hashed through in this thread, so I'll leave my thoughts there.

Felidae
November 28th, 2006, 10:35 AM
As far as an answer to the original post/question, I was perhaps... intimidated at first.

I soon found that many of the Discordians on this board were refreshingly non-pretentious and have taken a strong liking to many of them.

I like the energy they have brought to the place. :)

Fiamma
November 28th, 2006, 11:06 AM
My thoughts might already have been posted...but I don't have the attention span to read the hundreds of posts already in existance. So I will share them.

I've noticed similarities among Discordians and Lokeans. It seems that they fall out into two basic groups.

1. Those who are looking to be weird, crazy, different, want to use their religion as an excuse for doing bizarre things. These people tned to be extremely annoying.

2. Those that don't.

I've known my share of both Lokeans and Discordians that fall into the either category. In my experience, those that fall into the "those that don't" category, tend to be extremely thoughtful and intelligent, and sometimes (though not always) very quiet people. Often, you'd never know of their religious tendencies unless the subject comes up.

I'm not a Discordian myself, but I seem to have some tendencies. I just can't quite reconcile complete nonsense with religious practice , though there are times when it is wholly apropriate and even makes sense. I'm a little too Apollonian to make it a constant thing.

stella01904
November 28th, 2006, 11:27 AM
I think that might've been meant as a joke.

Daniel,
Just guessing.It was.

stella01904
November 28th, 2006, 11:37 AM
It is not a mock religion, not sure where you got that. Just because it is a religion disguised as a joke disguised as a religion doesn't mean it isn't real.

It does mean that one has to put forth a bit of effort - not something you can expect from many in the age of the Hello Kitty Tarot.

stella01904
November 28th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Discordianism is not meant to be understood by the rational mind,it is meant to be understood by the[i]irrational mind[/]which is just as valid,and necessary as the rational mind,but has been pretty much ignored by western belief structures,but very well understood by the eastern ones.I have no problem discussing and explaining discordian concepts with taoists and buddhists.
Just wanted to add: Alejandro Jodorowsky compares the rational mind with a caged animal that must be fed at regular intervals, and the irrational with a wild animal that "is never mistaken about food". The rational mind needs words, the irrational mind fends for itself. :cheers:
Some of you should be a little more carefull about generalizing people.
If you have no problem saying that discordians are annoying,how far is it before you have no problem saying muslems are terrorists,blacks are criminals,mexicans are lazy,jews are greedy......Excellent point.
Ignorance in a new pair of shoes is still ignorance.
Substitute "Jew", "black person", etc. for "discordian" in many of the posts here and see how they read. You can really see the nature of the problem.

Selenite
November 28th, 2006, 01:10 PM
Discordians are an interesting bunch. I'd never met one before joining the board here, though I'd heard of them before. I didn't know much at all. I think I've learned more from them and from their ideas than I've learned in any of my classes this semester (whether this reflects well on them, or badly on me/my college I don't know. :hahugh: ) I've found more truths and things to ponder reading their rants, tracts, and books than anything else I've ever read. I don't feel afraid of them, but I can see where maybe someone could feel intimidated by them; sharp wit and well-spoken posts have made me into a bit of a lurker lately. I don't feel like I could call myself a Discordian yet, I've got too much yet to learn but I definitely can tell I've gotten myself into something interesting I'd like to keep pursuing.

But even being intimidated by a Discordian, or meeting one you didn't particularly like doesn't excuse being rude about them or their beliefs. If you don't like the beliefs or don't believe them then that's fine but you don't need to pick at it like it's all some big stupid game. So a couple of stoned guys started it all, big deal? Isn't it usually the more intuitive people that start up religions/beliefs/all that stuff anyway?

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 01:31 PM
I don't know much about discordianism.


I really don't understand though how any faith can be centered around chaos.

It seems to be a principle that is the opposite of harmony and transcendence.

Wolfpoet
November 28th, 2006, 01:44 PM
I don't know much about discordianism.


I really don't understand though how any faith can be centered around chaos.

It seems to be a principle that is the opposite of harmony and transcendence.

Maybe transcendance and harmony isn't what ALL people want.

Further, maybe in our greast for Harmony and Transcendance we become trapped on a static path of conformity from which there is no enlightenment, merely the illusion of wisdom. Sometimes you need a metaphysical boot up the backside to get out of the rut nad back on the path to seek Enlightenment.

Fiamma
November 28th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Just wanted to add: Alejandro Jodorowsky compares the rational mind with a caged animal that must be fed at regular intervals, and the irrational with a wild animal that "is never mistaken about food". The rational mind needs words, the irrational mind fends for itself. :cheers: Excellent point.
Ignorance in a new pair of shoes is still ignorance.
Substitute "Jew", "black person", etc. for "discordian" in many of the posts here and see how they read. You can really see the nature of the problem.


for the record...don't kno if any of this is directed at my comments, but what I said was based on and referring to the various folks that i have known and interacted with. I thought I was cklear on that, but rereading what I wrote, it might not be obvious to everyone.

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 01:55 PM
Maybe transcendance and harmony isn't what ALL people want.

Further, maybe in our greast for Harmony and Transcendance we become trapped on a static path of conformity from which there is no enlightenment, merely the illusion of wisdom. Sometimes you need a metaphysical boot up the backside to get out of the rut nad back on the path to seek Enlightenment.

What is enlightening about chaos?

Fiamma
November 28th, 2006, 01:57 PM
I don't know much about discordianism.


I really don't understand though how any faith can be centered around chaos.

It seems to be a principle that is the opposite of harmony and transcendence.


I have no clue myself really, but there are moments when it makes perfect sense to me. it's those random moments of clarity that I can't explain, often occuring in times of great sleep deprivation when i'm trying to do something completely serious, and then these wacky thoughts start coming to me....

I dunno, maybe discordians are all just greatly sleep-deprived. :-P

Wolfpoet
November 28th, 2006, 02:04 PM
What is enlightening about chaos?

*raises an eyebrow*

Coming from an asatru I find that statement confusing.

Purity of any single nature is merely a rejection of self. We are creatures of balance, each aspect a reflection of another. To focus on one aspect of our being to the exclusion of all others can not be considered enlightenment, but merely self-dillusion.

Chaos is as important an element in our existence as order and in some ways we need Chaos much more in the structured world we been born into.

Our entire lives are regulated by rules and regulations, imposed reality and order. Personal freedom and will is slowly crushed under the iron heel of order gone mad. In the days of our ancestors, chaos threatened to overturn society and order was sought to balance the scales.

We find ourselves at the opposite end of that cycle and we must introduce chaos to balance out the strangle-hold order has over our society and culture. Odin teaches us to seek Wisdom, to sacrifice for this wisdom and to earn it. Loki teache sus that order is not wisdom and that chaos is not wisdom either, his lessos stand to show us that the middle ground is where we find wisdom.

To live a static life of order and imbalance is not the way of Odin, but to contsantly wander and to seek answers. To challenged the world rather than to accept it. Chaos is a vital element of our beings and no harmony or transcendance can come from any lack of balance.

eldora_avalon
November 28th, 2006, 02:16 PM
I don't know much about discordianism.


I really don't understand though how any faith can be centered around chaos.

It seems to be a principle that is the opposite of harmony and transcendence.

It takes order AND disorder for there to be Chaos. To equate Chaos only with disorder is missing a lot. Many of us come from the perspective of science and mathematics, where Chaos Theory has opened the eyes of many disciplines over the last few decades. Look around you. Especially during winter, which might as well be called the season of fractals. Snowflakes, frost, trees bare of their leaves, those are all fractals, all explained by Chaos. Patterns are dictated by Chaos, by mathematics. Sometimes something very orderly can really be disorderly underneath. Vice versa. Chaos is so much a part of nature that you cannot have a faith that has anything to do with nature and not have Chaos be a part of it.

Well, I don't see a lot of harmony. I don't pretend to live in some hearts and flowers world where everything is OK. I live in the real world where most things are F'ed up. To see the Chaos that is there, to expect things to be orderly sometimes, disorderly at other times, to accept that is the way things go, that acceptance brings me peace of mind. I am not constantly fighting with life, I am not constantly freaked out by the Golden Apples that roll my way. I expect them and just laugh them off.

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 02:27 PM
*raises an eyebrow*

Coming from an asatru I find that statement confusing.

Purity of any single nature is merely a rejection of self. We are creatures of balance, each aspect a reflection of another. To focus on one aspect of our being to the exclusion of all others can not be considered enlightenment, but merely self-dillusion.

Chaos is as important an element in our existence as order and in some ways we need Chaos much more in the structured world we been born into.

Our entire lives are regulated by rules and regulations, imposed reality and order. Personal freedom and will is slowly crushed under the iron heel of order gone mad. In the days of our ancestors, chaos threatened to overturn society and order was sought to balance the scales.

We find ourselves at the opposite end of that cycle and we must introduce chaos to balance out the strangle-hold order has over our society and culture. Odin teaches us to seek Wisdom, to sacrifice for this wisdom and to earn it. Loki teache sus that order is not wisdom and that chaos is not wisdom either, his lessos stand to show us that the middle ground is where we find wisdom.

To live a static life of order and imbalance is not the way of Odin, but to contsantly wander and to seek answers. To challenged the world rather than to accept it. Chaos is a vital element of our beings and no harmony or transcendance can come from any lack of balance.



Coming from an asatru I find that statement confusing.

How so?



Loki teache sus that order is not wisdom and that chaos is not wisdom either, his lessos stand to show us that the middle ground is where we find wisdom.

I don't worship Loki.

May Loki be bounded to that rock where the Gods placed him.






Purity of any single nature is merely a rejection of self. We are creatures of balance, each aspect a reflection of another. To focus on one aspect of our being to the exclusion of all others can not be considered enlightenment, but merely self-dillusion.

Chaos is as important an element in our existence as order and in some ways we need Chaos much more in the structured world we been born into.

Our entire lives are regulated by rules and regulations, imposed reality and order. Personal freedom and will is slowly crushed under the iron heel of order gone mad. In the days of our ancestors, chaos threatened to overturn society and order was sought to balance the scales.

We find ourselves at the opposite end of that cycle and we must introduce chaos to balance out the strangle-hold order has over our society and culture. Odin teaches us to seek Wisdom, to sacrifice for this wisdom and to earn it. Loki teache sus that order is not wisdom and that chaos is not wisdom either, his lessos stand to show us that the middle ground is where we find wisdom.

To live a static life of order and imbalance is not the way of Odin, but to contsantly wander and to seek answers. To challenged the world rather than to accept it. Chaos is a vital element of our beings and no harmony or transcendance can come from any lack of balance


I don't deny that good and evil balance each other out.

I just don't see any wisdom in chaotic vices.

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 02:30 PM
It takes order AND disorder for there to be Chaos. To equate Chaos only with disorder is missing a lot. Many of us come from the perspective of science and mathematics, where Chaos Theory has opened the eyes of many disciplines over the last few decades. Look around you. Especially during winter, which might as well be called the season of fractals. Snowflakes, frost, trees bare of their leaves, those are all fractals, all explained by Chaos. Patterns are dictated by Chaos, by mathematics. Sometimes something very orderly can really be disorderly underneath. Vice versa. Chaos is so much a part of nature that you cannot have a faith that has anything to do with nature and not have Chaos be a part of it.

Well, I don't see a lot of harmony. I don't pretend to live in some hearts and flowers world where everything is OK. I live in the real world where most things are F'ed up. To see the Chaos that is there, to expect things to be orderly sometimes, disorderly at other times, to accept that is the way things go, that acceptance brings me peace of mind. I am not constantly fighting with life, I am not constantly freaked out by the Golden Apples that roll my way. I expect them and just laugh them off.


I suppose that is the difference between you and I.

I only see chaos as a small part of the cosmos because when I think of existance and reality I think of tranquil perpetual motion.

Wolfpoet
November 28th, 2006, 02:37 PM
I don't worship Loki.

May Loki be bounded to that rock where the Gods placed him.



Not worshipping any one member of the pantheoon is like cutting off one of your own fingers. You can achieve the task, but you only make it more dificult.

We are not Christians with a conveniant Satan to hate and blame for all evils. Loki is not an evil God, he is just not a nice one. He is the element of chaos, the trickster that keeps us on our path and teaches us not to take things at face value but to be wary.

Much the same way Eris seems to treat her own followers.

A narrow-mind is like a sailor who only watches straight ahead. Sooner or later the dangers of the sea that come from a direction he is not watching will bring him to ruin.

Fiamma
November 28th, 2006, 02:39 PM
I suppose that is the difference between you and I.

I only see chaos as a small part of the cosmos because when I think of existance and reality I think of tranquil perpetual motion.


I see chaos as its original meaning...Khaos, the everything and nothing from which everything else originated.

Which is not the same as discord.

just my two cents on chaos.

SammieAnn
November 28th, 2006, 02:40 PM
What is enlightening about chaos?

For me personally, chaos or whatever chaotic event that happens in my life is a lesson that I needed to learn at that time. There is nothing more enlightening for me then learning valuable lessons. Besides I have noticed that when things are going in an orderly manner in my life I tend not to learn as much and I tend to feel tied down and plain bored.

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 02:43 PM
Not worshipping any one member of the pantheoon is like cutting off one of your own fingers. You can achieve the task, but you only make it more dificult.

We are not Christians with a conveniant Satan to hate and blame for all evils. Loki is not an evil God, he is just not a nice one. He is the element of chaos, the trickster that keeps us on our path and teaches us not to take things at face value but to be wary.

Much the same way Eris seems to treat her own followers.

A narrow-mind is like a sailor who only watches straight ahead. Sooner or later the dangers of the sea that come from a direction he is not watching will bring him to ruin.

I should worship the God that brings Ragnarokr or the God who kills Balder the God of sacredness and love.............You will have to forgive me for my laughter.




Not worshipping any one member of the pantheoon is like cutting off one of your own fingers. You can achieve the task, but you only make it more dificult.

We are not Christians with a conveniant Satan to hate and blame for all evils. Loki is not an evil God, he is just not a nice one. He is the element of chaos, the trickster that keeps us on our path and teaches us not to take things at face value but to be wary.



If you say so.




A narrow-mind is like a sailor who only watches straight ahead. Sooner or later the dangers of the sea that come from a direction he is not watching will bring him to ruin.


Be careful who you call narrow....

Druchii
November 28th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Are people afraid of discordians? No.

Are they hiding their insecurities behind a blanket of humor because they can't look into the mirror without succumbing to the truth? That or they have a lot of time on their hands.

Why do other "pagans" dislike discordianism? Because they have a dumb label.

This is all just my opinion, until like 2 months ago I didn't know what the hell it meant to be one, and now that I DO know, I could care less.

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 02:46 PM
I see chaos as its original meaning...Khaos, the everything and nothing from which everything else originated.

Which is not the same as discord.

just my two cents on chaos.

Why is it so many people use it in terms of what is opposite of harmony or order these days?

Also if that is the way you use it you do realize that state of the cosmos is no more.

I am not trying to be insulting but rather I am trying to understand such views.

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 02:47 PM
For me personally, chaos or whatever chaotic event that happens in my life is a lesson that I needed to learn at that time. There is nothing more enlightening for me then learning valuable lessons. Besides I have noticed that when things are going in an orderly manner in my life I tend not to learn as much and I tend to feel tied down and plain bored.

Is there not a subtle order or reason that helps you understand such events in chaos?

Grimr
November 28th, 2006, 02:56 PM
I have to leave in a couple of minutes.

I just want people to know it is not my intention to be insulting.

I am just trying to understand things in my own way.

LadyWinter
November 28th, 2006, 03:12 PM
.....................................make teh voices stop........... By now if they get it they get it and if they dont they never will...

Riddle me this....For a board that really doesnt welcome Discordians this thread has been the liveliest around.....Gimme that ole' chaos anytime....or kill me....

Just saying....
Winter

SammieAnn
November 28th, 2006, 03:47 PM
Is there not a subtle order or reason that helps you understand such events in chaos?

It does in part. The chaos sets a new perspective in motion and order gives me the quiet to reflect on it. I try to keep my life ballenced but it is almost impossible.

LacyRoze
November 28th, 2006, 03:54 PM
Are people afraid of Discordians? I'm not. What is there to be afraid of? I admit I don't always understand them but that's no reason to fear them. They've even made me think and challenge my own beliefs at times.

He who seeks
November 28th, 2006, 03:58 PM
mmm discordent and chaos.....

Watcher of ways has that under his belt buts he's also fate and destiny

in life in genral if you see a crowd of people in a bust city street do you see discordence and chaos with so many different, clothings, styles, jobs and directions?

only really if you look on as a whole,

my two pence is on that being the whole load of choices throw at you every monent of your day and its up to you to shape that chaos or khaos in to the reality you chose to tread

this is what i think...and Watcher of ways knows this as kahos is the shapelessness of the begining ,potencial waiting to take form but just as easily lose it and slip back into chaos wich faces us

as ive come to belive is where demons come from...the negative thoughs given shape...the stronger the badness the more real it becomes and seeks to feed further on that consuming life.....

Fiamma
November 28th, 2006, 04:13 PM
Why is it so many people use it in terms of what is opposite of harmony or order these days?

Also if that is the way you use it you do realize that state of the cosmos is no more.

I am not trying to be insulting but rather I am trying to understand such views.


no insult taken.

I don't know why people use the word as such, but at some point it came to be...and I do see the relation from one meaning to another...but often the word "chaos" is used where perhaps "pandemonium" would be more appropriate.

_Banbha_
November 28th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Why is it so many people use it in terms of what is opposite of harmony or order these days?

Also if that is the way you use it you do realize that state of the cosmos is no more.

I am not trying to be insulting but rather I am trying to understand such views.

Hmmm...try to imagine breaking the chains of duality/dualism. Why does chaos have to be the opposite of anything? It just is.

Vincent Verthaine
November 28th, 2006, 05:24 PM
Why is it so many people use it in terms of what is opposite of harmony or order these days?

Also if that is the way you use it you do realize that state of the cosmos is no more.

I am not trying to be insulting but rather I am trying to understand such views.

Nazi Germany was one of the Most Orderly societies man has ever seen.
Mussolini got the trains to run on time.
Stalin was one of the greatest control freaks of all times.
An ant colony or a beehive is orderly,and in harmony with itself,but at the loss of personal induviduality.But I don't think it's a good model for mankind to emulate.
Order does not necessarily=Good.




I only see chaos as a small part of the cosmos because when I think of existance and reality I think of tranquil perpetual motion.

While you are well within your right to belive that,that does not necessarily mean that is the way the universe really is.You see it that way because you choose to see it that way.

There is nothing tranquil about motion at all.
As a matter of fact,it is the very essense of Chaos.

Any form of motion sets up a disturbance in something.Changes something.
If a butterfly in China can cause a hurricane in the Gulf Coast,how many lives have you just ended when you wrote your post?

At any point and time in the multiverse,there is Chaos.There is randomness,there is change.
Harmony has absolutely nothing to do with order.It is the acceptance of the way things are.It is the understanding that you a part of a whole,and that your actions(your movements) contribute to that whole.

Imagine a one square inch of interstellar space.
Looks pretty empty huh.Just a vaccum,with nothing going on.Pretty orderly.Or is it.
Lets take a closer look shall we.

Oh wait what do we have here.Why,it's a bunch of dust particles.
Just floating around.Banging into each other,changing each others motions.

Lets look closer shall we?
Why it's a bunch of hydrogen atoms.While you may be able to predict how the group of atoms as a whole might behave,it is impossible to predict which atoms are going to shed an electron?
Lets look even closer.
Are look,it;s a bunch of photons,leptons,and other sub atomic particals.While you may be able to predict with reasonable accuracy the behaior of that group of particals,it is impossible to predict which particles will be created when two particals collide.The further you go down the sub atomic chain,the more randomness becomes a factor.That is Universal.It happens here,and in the furthest reaches of space/time.At Planck Time(-10x42) of a second of the Big Bang,the Universe was at a state of Infinite Potential.If any one of the infinite amount of variables that went into creating this universe was only slightly different,we may not have around to have this discussion.

The Big Bang was the most Chaotic event this Universe has ever known.

Chaos is the underlying source of the universe.
It can manifest itself in an orderly,and predictible,manner,or it can manifest itself in a disorderly,unpredictible manner.

How we choose to see that manifestation is our own conceit.

Daniel
November 28th, 2006, 05:55 PM
Nazi Germany was one of the Most Orderly societies man has ever seen.
Mussolini got the trains to run on time.
Stalin was one of the greatest control freaks of all times.
An ant colony or a beehive is orderly,and in harmony with itself,but at the loss of personal induviduality.But I don't think it's a good model for mankind to emulate.
Order does not necessarily=Good.

This is true. Hitler had the trains running troops, equipment, supplies, and victims all over his empire, all on a tight schedule. Additionally, the Nazis were oh so good at taking a census, cataloging their people, tracking employment, capital and assets all over the realms of their reach.

It was, consequently, all brought to you thanks to equipment sold to them by IBM (http://www.ibmandtheholocaust.com/).


it;s a bunch of photons,leptons,and other sub atomic particals.While you may be able to predict with reasonable accuracy the behaior of that group of particals,it is impossible to predict which particles will be created when two particals collide.

Heck, even if you stop at electrons, those hang out in what are known as "electron clouds." These are areas in which you have a higher chance of finding an electron hanging around an atom than other places.

You can't really pinpoint electrons, which is why those "clouds" are also refered to as "electron smears."

Electrons can literally be just about anywhere. Our best-guess method for finding them is simple probability, not absolute locations in space.

Lunacie
November 28th, 2006, 06:29 PM
.....................................make teh voices stop........... By now if they get it they get it and if they dont they never will...

Riddle me this....For a board that really doesnt welcome Discordians this thread has been the liveliest around.....Gimme that ole' chaos anytime....or kill me....

Just saying....
Winter

Sure, it can get boring watching them bat the ping pong ball back and forth over the little bitty net, but just when you look away one of them puts a spin on the ball and it all gets rather interesting. By sharing opinions, by disagreeing, by asking questions, by this very process of dialogue... someone who is taking part or merely lurking may have a "lightbulb moment" where something they read suddenly makes sense.

Lunacie
November 28th, 2006, 06:39 PM
no insult taken.

I don't know why people use the word as such, but at some point it came to be...and I do see the relation from one meaning to another...but often the word "chaos" is used where perhaps "pandemonium" would be more appropriate.



pandemonium:
-noun
1. wild uproar or unrestrained disorder; tumult or chaos.
2. a place or scene of riotous uproar or utter chaos.


It seems that "pandemonium" is just a way of describing "chaos."



chaos
–noun
1.a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.
2.any confused, disorderly mass: a chaos of meaningless phrases.
3.the infinity of space or formless matter supposed to have preceded the existence of the ordered universe.
4.(initial capital letterhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png) the personification of this in any of several ancient Greek myths.

eldora_avalon
November 28th, 2006, 07:23 PM
It seems that "pandemonium" is just a way of describing "chaos."

The problem is that you are using the word Chaos in the same way the average person would. Lots of Discordians use it in the same way mathematicians use it.


What exactly is chaos? The name "chaos theory" comes from the fact that the systems that the theory describes are apparently disordered, but chaos theory is really about finding the underlying order in apparently random data.

http://www.imho.com/grae/chaos/chaos.html

Sometimes you find order in disorder, sometimes you find disorder in order. To value order over disorder or to value disorder over order is to buy into the illusion.

The butterfly effect
is also known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions. This is why weather is so difficult to predeict. Even a slight change, or a small unknowable peice of data, and the forecast is out the window. Hurricanes in the last few years have done things they weren't supposed to be able to do. Like go over water that a previous storm went over, but still gain strength. The experts thought that hurricanes got most of their energy from the warm waters, well some of them got pretty strong, even though the water was cooled from a previous storm.

Chaos Theory explains many things. The way prey/predator populations flucuate. Why pineapples have the strange pattern going in two different directions. The noise in a phone line or computer line. Most everything, but I am too sleep deprived to think of them all right now.

Lunacie
November 28th, 2006, 07:28 PM
The problem is that you are using the word Chaos in the same way the average person would. Lots of Discordians use it in the same way mathematicians use it.


.

Or maybe... the problem is that Discordians are using a much less common definition of "chaos" and they see it differently than the rest of us do. And then they wonder why we don't understand where they're coming from.

eldora_avalon
November 28th, 2006, 07:32 PM
No.
That or they have a lot of time on their hands.
Because they have a dumb label.

This is all just my opinion, until like 2 months ago I didn't know what the hell it meant to be one, and now that I DO know, I could care less.

Eris' other name is Discordia, thus Discordians. Some of us call ourselves Erisians. Calling our label dumb is kind of like calling the label Christian dumb, ya know what I mean?

Twinkle
November 28th, 2006, 11:33 PM
It's my understanding (limited as it is) that if one can appreciate the beauty that comes from chaos...you're getting somewhere.

Out of discomfort, chaos, discord...you get a lot of the many truths in life. Following blindly what someone tells you is not the Discordian way...imho.

Working with people that are fair and just...and reciprocating with the same...is the Discordian way.

People just don't see it that way.

Infinite Grey
November 29th, 2006, 12:13 AM
amusement is rising, soon to peak

Grimr
November 29th, 2006, 01:41 AM
Hmmm...try to imagine breaking the chains of duality/dualism. Why does chaos have to be the opposite of anything? It just is.

Have a intolerance for dualists?

Grimr
November 29th, 2006, 01:42 AM
I don't understand the chaos thing but I am not going to go into saying anything about a belief I don't know much about either.

So............ To each their own.

Vincent Verthaine
November 29th, 2006, 02:37 AM
Or maybe... the problem is that Discordians are using a much less common definition of "chaos" and they see it differently than the rest of us do. And then they wonder why we don't understand where they're coming from.

That may be so,but a lot of times,when we try to explain what we mean by "chaos",we get dismissed out of hand because it does not fit "their" definition of chaos.

When we say that "Chaos is the underlining source of the multiverse",we are only saying what the vast majority of scientists are saying themselves.We are defining chaos the way scientists are defining chaos.We are going by what the evidence ptresented to us is saying.If anyone here has evidence contrary to what is the prevailing scientific thought on the subject,please,present the evidence here for peer review.

There are people here who are not discordians who seem to understand what we mean by chaos.Minerva Mind isn't a discordian (or at least,won't admit she is),but she seems to grok what we are saying.You seem to grok what we are saying.So are plenty of others.We don't wonder why people don't understand,we wonder why people won't even try to understand.

Wyldedryad mentioned "breaking the chains of duality",and that's the problem in communication between discordian and a lot of pagans.
Many pagans are still stuck in viewing the universe in terms duality.
Hot or Cold.
yes or No.
Black or White.
They are operating in binary.Everything is an absolute to them.

The problem is that the universe does not operate in binary,it operates in trinary.There are no absolutes in the universe.
The universe operates on the concept of
Yes/No/Maybe(it depends on what the variables are ).
Hot/Cold/Maybe(it depends on what the variables are).
Black/White/Maybe(it depends on what the variables are).

That is how we discordians are learning to think.

It is in the nature of us discordians to question everything.
But the one thing we cannot accept(and it's the one thing that a lot people keep saying to us) when we ask "why",is the answer "because I said so".

And thats what pisses a number of people here about us.We refuse to feed their egos.We refuse to just blindly accept their proclamations without proof.
We refuse to acknowledge what they feel is the self evident superiority of themselves.

It's like a person who is love with their own gaseous anal emission,and is absolutely convinced that their farts smell like roses.If they cut one loose in a crowded elevator,they expect everyone to applaud and tell them how great smelling that fart was.
A discordian in that elevator will have no problem screaming out,"Man,who cut the cheese in hear.Boy does that stink!!!'.They try to convince us that their farts smell like roses,just because they believe it does.And continues to fart.When we counter by pointing out the paint peeling,the number of unconscious people turning blue on the floor,they still won't believe it,and still they fart .So when we decide,screw it,if they wants to insist their farts smell like roses,then ours must also.So we fart back.

We threaten the foundation that their egos built upon their beliefs,by making them think and question their own beliefs.
If a gentle push threatens to topple a skyscraper,maybe that skyscaper wasn't built all that well to begin with.
The human vanity hates to be shown the TRUTH.

Vincent Verthaine
November 29th, 2006, 02:50 AM
Oh,by the way.
Will someone explain to me why the posters bashing discordians on this thread did anything different from what Michael Richards did at the Laff Factory last week?
Other then the fact that Richards actually apologized.

WokeUpDead
November 29th, 2006, 02:58 AM
Nobody brought up lynching?

Vincent Verthaine
November 29th, 2006, 03:35 AM
True,but it was recommended earlier in the thread that we be "flushed twice,just to make sure".
Close enough for me.

HetHert
November 29th, 2006, 03:49 AM
Touching upon what Twinkle said....

I'm in the middle of a situation in my life right now where chaos has been introduced to my lovely existence and it is allowing me to see and take stock, put into prcatice and really understand where I am at as a person in the grand scheme of things. My ability to love has been tested to the n'th degree and yet had it not occured I would never know what I was capable of deep down inside when it comes to love and forgiveness, perseverence and understanding. Its when chaos comes in that we are able to test our strengths and build new avenues toward harmony. If we ever existed in a perfect copacetic world, the world as we know it would become bland and very boring and the advantage of the beauty would be taken for granted, leaving us searching for more because thats what we do. We strive to find the next beautiful, joy, happy filled moment in life. But you can't appreciate what you have when there is nothing there to compare it too. There is no joy without knowing pain. There is only an experience because there is nothing on the other end of the spectrum to define its state of being.

Harmony is an ideal stuck between two extremes. How its existence is revealed is through knowing the recipe of opposites that create that beautiful moment and existence of perfection that radiates through each and everyone of us when the we finally find the peace that balance brings. But Harmony is born from strife and striving for it opposite ideal, it is the child of that marriage.

Discordians don't preach the harmony at all. But what they offer is an insight in to the disillusionment of the pretty cardboard packaging that is bought into by many who prefer the pretty betty crocker illusion rather than delving into the inner workings of the manufacturing where the equation of what is and/or is not fully realized.

The anger that is felt and ridiculed is just as easily ignored if one doesn't buy the Discordian hype. Its all hype. Its all agenda. But at least Discordians are willing to reveal the warts and assboils of the agenda, challenging the perspective and making one think about what they've truely bought into.

If it insights anger, what is it in yourself that is so passionate about the subject that they have injected themselves in and made mockery or heaven forbid a joke out of that offends you so. Why even become offended. Security in a belief, in an opinion, in a personal truth should alleviate the need to become offended by what a group with different outlooks believes. The more the facts according to another group angers you the more you may need to confront the fact that there is actually another point of view that is just as valid as your own. Thus inters tolerance and acceptance that possiblities of multiple angles of perception and therefore personal truth is capable of coexisting. Its these personal truths and perseptions that guide our decisions. These decisions shape our lives. Its your choice to decide if the truth your about to base your choice on is the one that will lead you down the path you feel is the right way to go.

I'm drunk and rambling.

That is all.

Temptation
November 29th, 2006, 04:24 AM
This entire thread is giving me one more reason to be glad I decided to give up on religion a long time ago.

Which doesn't prevent me from respecting and trying to understand religious people and their need to hold on to a faith or religious philosophy. Some I think are pretty cool, and many have taught me something of interest or use. Others I think are so far out there, it's not even funny, but even those have taught me something of use.

In the end, I decided that not only would I never find a religion to fit my particular twisted view of things, I also realized I don't need one. I don't need to believe in deity, I don't need to be part of any group that will help me validate my beliefs.

I've always questioned everything I was told, whether it was religious or scientific in nature. People don't like it when you question their deeply held beliefs, no matter what the nature of said beliefs.

Except Discordians. They thrive on it. And this is precisely why, despite my earlier misgivings when I first ran into them, I have enormous respect for many of them. I also share another very important trait with them: I think for myself.

I guess, based on that, I could label myself a Discordian if I wanted to, but, just like with all the other philosophies and religions I've come to know, a lot of it just doesn't fit with me. So I've taken the stuff that fits and added it to the melting-pot that forms my own personal "path", for lack of a better word.

Just thought I'd add my own personal experience with Discordianism. :)

Infinite Grey
November 29th, 2006, 04:34 AM
I think what a lot of people fail to realize is the Discordians, Erisians, and the like, are as much a necessity to a community as the fluffies, fundies, serious practitioners, atheists and any other group. A lot of these "rebels" were greatly wronged in the recent "purge" and the prejudice still seems to be in affect... as a result I'll have very little sympathy for a lot of you if you dare to bitch about being "persecuted" in future admissions.

That being said, I have a lot in common with Discordians on a primal level and have noticed that even in a group that cites the belief of "think for your self" that the sheeple attitude is still present. Though they will be more of an individualist than in other "religions" and will formulate their own opinions, a great many will still flock around a charismatic individual and swoon. Hopefully those reading this will recognize this behaviour, but I suspect many do not.

Temptation
November 29th, 2006, 04:43 AM
I think what a lot of people fail to realize is the Discordians, Erisians, and the like, are as much a necessity to a community as the fluffies, fundies, serious practitioners, atheists and any other group. A lot of these "rebels" were greatly wronged in the recent "purge" and the prejudice still seems to be in affect... as a result I'll have very little sympathy for a lot of you if you dare to bitch about being "persecuted" in future admissions.

That being said, I have a lot in common with Discordians on a primal level and have noticed that even in a group that cites the belief of "think for your self" that the sheeple attitude is still present. Though they will be more of an individualist than in other "religions" and will formulate their own opinions, a great many will still flock around a charismatic individual and swoon. Hopefully those reading this will recognize this behaviour, but I suspect many do not.

I've noticed that too.

Cassie
November 29th, 2006, 05:55 AM
We threaten the foundation that their egos built upon their beliefs,by making them think and question their own beliefs.
If a gentle push threatens to topple a skyscraper,maybe that skyscaper wasn't built all that well to begin with.
The human vanity hates to be shown the TRUTH.
I see two points of possible disagreement here. Firstly in the post this quote was snipped from, you speak strongly against the tendency towards dualism and thinking in absolutes and yet the way you have written that last sentence "The human vanity hates to be shown the TRUTH" seems to me to be an absolutest statement. Moreover, wether it is intended or not, there seems to be something rather arrogant in the the notion that we know what is truth and you don't. This is something that tends to upset people no matter what religion or philosophy espouses it.
The second point is that while there is much to be applauded in encouraging people to question their own beliefs, some care and thought needs to be taken over the context and method in which it is done. Mysticwicks has much scope to debate issues yet at it's heart it is supposed to be a 'spiritual sanctury'. As such, there are some situations and parts of the site where harmony is more valid and needed than discord. Members have a right to hope that the walls of their sanctuary will not be pushed and pushed untill the structure tumbles in on itself.





Discordians don't preach the harmony at all. But what they offer is an insight in to the disillusionment of the pretty cardboard packaging that is bought into by many who prefer the pretty betty crocker illusion rather than delving into the inner workings of the manufacturing where the equation of what is and/or is not fully realized.
True enough, but forcing people to confront illusions before they are ready can be dangerous...

I liked what you said about the concept of harmony in your post. But even if what you say is true, that harmony can only really be appreciated in comparison and contrast to discord and disharmony; I think harmony is the thing to aspire to.







I've always questioned everything I was told, whether it was religious or scientific in nature. People don't like it when you question their deeply held beliefs, no matter what the nature of said beliefs.

Except Discordians. They thrive on it. And this is precisely why, despite my earlier misgivings when I first ran into them, I have enormous respect for many of them. I also share another very important trait with them: I think for myself.

I guess, based on that, I could label myself a Discordian if I wanted to, but, just like with all the other philosophies and religions I've come to know, a lot of it just doesn't fit with me. So I've taken the stuff that fits and added it to the melting-pot that forms my own personal "path", for lack of a better word.

Just thought I'd add my own personal experience with Discordianism. :)
You are proof that not only Discordians question everything and think for themselves. ;)

Temptation
November 29th, 2006, 06:34 AM
You are proof that not only Discordians question everything and think for themselves. ;)

Pretty much. And thank heavens for that.

Although, I don't think that Discordians ever claimed to be the only ones who think for themselves or that you need to be Discordian in order to truly think for yourself. What they want is for people to keep an open mind and to at least acknowledge that sometimes "truth" is subjective and varies greatly from one person to another.

Fiamma
November 29th, 2006, 09:33 AM
It seems that "pandemonium" is just a way of describing "chaos."


by modern definitions, yes, the two are often used interchangeably, but the origins of both words are really quite different.

Khaos is the origin, the everythign and nothing from which the universe came.

Pandemonium comes from the god Pan, and the madness that he was said to have inspired. This is also where we get the word "panic"

Fiamma
November 29th, 2006, 09:42 AM
Originally Posted by Grimr http://www.mysticwicks.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?p=2910176#post2910176)

I only see chaos as a small part of the cosmos because when I think of existance and reality I think of tranquil perpetual motion.


Dissonant harmony is still harmony...

Lunacie
November 29th, 2006, 10:33 AM
by modern definitions, yes, the two are often used interchangeably, but the origins of both words are really quite different.

Khaos is the origin, the everythign and nothing from which the universe came.

Pandemonium comes from the god Pan, and the madness that he was said to have inspired. This is also where we get the word "panic"

If we could turn back time... but for now the majority of the people are going to use the current definition of any word. Seems silly to be upset because not everyone understands the history behind one particular religion or philosophy.

Cassie and HetHert both brought up a point I tried to make early in this thread - that "truth" is often based on personal perspective. Having someone try to "open your eyes" or your mind and basically force you to see their truth is indeed arrogant and will only pizz people off. And people who are pizzed and upset don't tend to think clearly, so it's basically defeating the purpose, eh?

What Vincent said about our society viewing things as "black or white" is a concept I learned very early in my Wiccan training. Not every student who studied with me understood or was able to wrap their mind around the idea that there are more than two absolutes - that gray is also a color. But it just resonated with me and made perfect sense. However, 17 years of walking this path and I still find myself asking myself... "Is this because of X or because of Y?" And sometimes it takes a conscious effort to think maybe it's because of both X and Y, and maybe something else as well.

But it's hardly fair to say that All Discordians "get that" and All Non-Discordians "don't get that." (which Vincent didn't actually say but managed to imply.)

Fiamma
November 29th, 2006, 10:46 AM
If we could turn back time... but for now the majority of the people are going to use the current definition of any word. Seems silly to be upset because not everyone understands the history behind one particular religion or philosophy.



I'm not upset. someone commented on the meanings and origins of the words and I threw in some etymological info.

'tis all that was.

Lunacie
November 29th, 2006, 11:02 AM
No, I wasn't saying that you were upset. I meant that it seems silly for the Discordians to get upset because the rest of us don't understand the history and meaning of their beliefs and practices. I've seen Wiccans do the same thing, and it's so silly to get upset when people simply don't know. Much better to try to explain it so they do understand. And yes, there are some who don't want to understand, they are content with their own worldview and don't see the need for other perspectives. And those I generally just leave alone.

_Banbha_
November 29th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Originally Posted by WyldeDryad
Hmmm...try to imagine breaking the chains of duality/dualism. Why does chaos have to be the opposite of anything? It just is.


Have a intolerance for dualists?


That's dualism in extremis. :D

I choose my words in homage to Rousseau.
From your sig:
Men are born free but everywhere surrounded by chains.

Fiamma
November 29th, 2006, 12:16 PM
No, I wasn't saying that you were upset. I meant that it seems silly for the Discordians to get upset because the rest of us don't understand the history and meaning of their beliefs and practices. I've seen Wiccans do the same thing, and it's so silly to get upset when people simply don't know. Much better to try to explain it so they do understand. And yes, there are some who don't want to understand, they are content with their own worldview and don't see the need for other perspectives. And those I generally just leave alone.


Ah, ok

Fiamma
November 29th, 2006, 12:18 PM
If we could turn back time... but for now the majority of the people are going to use the current definition of any word. Seems silly to be upset because not everyone understands the history behind one particular religion or philosophy.

Cassie and HetHert both brought up a point I tried to make early in this thread - that "truth" is often based on personal perspective. Having someone try to "open your eyes" or your mind and basically force you to see their truth is indeed arrogant and will only pizz people off. And people who are pizzed and upset don't tend to think clearly, so it's basically defeating the purpose, eh?

What Vincent said about our society viewing things as "black or white" is a concept I learned very early in my Wiccan training. Not every student who studied with me understood or was able to wrap their mind around the idea that there are more than two absolutes - that gray is also a color. But it just resonated with me and made perfect sense. However, 17 years of walking this path and I still find myself asking myself... "Is this because of X or because of Y?" And sometimes it takes a conscious effort to think maybe it's because of both X and Y, and maybe something else as well.

But it's hardly fair to say that All Discordians "get that" and All Non-Discordians "don't get that." (which Vincent didn't actually say but managed to imply.)


I wasn;t contesting the use of the word, I think I was just commenting on origins as previously stated. Actually, at this point I honestly don't remember if I had another point or not :-P

Athena-Nadine
November 29th, 2006, 12:22 PM
Vincent, I have never seen such a detailed explanation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.


If we could turn back time... but for now the majority of the people are going to use the current definition of any word. Seems silly to be upset because not everyone understands the history behind one particular religion or philosophy.

The thing is, there is no current, common definition of the word as so many seem to think.

A person's definition of Chaos depends on from where they are looking. To me, it is the state of unmaking, of void, nothingness, vacuum, Entropy, all of which are necessary to life and the existence of the universe. Because of my religious, scientific and mathematical training, I am unable to use any of the more romantic dfinitions of the word.

Grimr
November 29th, 2006, 01:05 PM
That may be so,but a lot of times,when we try to explain what we mean by "chaos",we get dismissed out of hand because it does not fit "their" definition of chaos.

When we say that "Chaos is the underlining source of the multiverse",we are only saying what the vast majority of scientists are saying themselves.We are defining chaos the way scientists are defining chaos.We are going by what the evidence ptresented to us is saying.If anyone here has evidence contrary to what is the prevailing scientific thought on the subject,please,present the evidence here for peer review.

There are people here who are not discordians who seem to understand what we mean by chaos.Minerva Mind isn't a discordian (or at least,won't admit she is),but she seems to grok what we are saying.You seem to grok what we are saying.So are plenty of others.We don't wonder why people don't understand,we wonder why people won't even try to understand.

Wyldedryad mentioned "breaking the chains of duality",and that's the problem in communication between discordian and a lot of pagans.
Many pagans are still stuck in viewing the universe in terms duality.
Hot or Cold.
yes or No.
Black or White.
They are operating in binary.Everything is an absolute to them.

The problem is that the universe does not operate in binary,it operates in trinary.There are no absolutes in the universe.
The universe operates on the concept of
Yes/No/Maybe(it depends on what the variables are ).
Hot/Cold/Maybe(it depends on what the variables are).
Black/White/Maybe(it depends on what the variables are).

That is how we discordians are learning to think.

It is in the nature of us discordians to question everything.
But the one thing we cannot accept(and it's the one thing that a lot people keep saying to us) when we ask "why",is the answer "because I said so".

And thats what pisses a number of people here about us.We refuse to feed their egos.We refuse to just blindly accept their proclamations without proof.
We refuse to acknowledge what they feel is the self evident superiority of themselves.

It's like a person who is love with their own gaseous anal emission,and is absolutely convinced that their farts smell like roses.If they cut one loose in a crowded elevator,they expect everyone to applaud and tell them how great smelling that fart was.
A discordian in that elevator will have no problem screaming out,"Man,who cut the cheese in hear.Boy does that stink!!!'.They try to convince us that their farts smell like roses,just because they believe it does.And continues to fart.When we counter by pointing out the paint peeling,the number of unconscious people turning blue on the floor,they still won't believe it,and still they fart .So when we decide,screw it,if they wants to insist their farts smell like roses,then ours must also.So we fart back.

We threaten the foundation that their egos built upon their beliefs,by making them think and question their own beliefs.
If a gentle push threatens to topple a skyscraper,maybe that skyscaper wasn't built all that well to begin with.
The human vanity hates to be shown the TRUTH.





And thats what pisses a number of people here about us.We refuse to feed their egos.We refuse to just blindly accept their proclamations without proof.
We refuse to acknowledge what they feel is the self evident superiority of themselves.



Almost sounds like a form of superiority over us mere humble pagans................

For a group that does not like absolutes you sure are sounding absolute yourself.

Grimr
November 29th, 2006, 01:14 PM
That's dualism in extremis. :D

I choose my words in homage to Rousseau.
From your sig:
Men are born free but everywhere surrounded by chains.


People here love to play the part of tolerant pacifists but when another comes with different views in themselves people begin to see that there is no tolerance here at all but intolerance hidden behind the term of tolerance.



I am a dualist and already there are people trying to convert me to their ways............

Marvelous world , isn't it?

Druchii
November 29th, 2006, 01:47 PM
Eris' other name is Discordia, thus Discordians. Some of us call ourselves Erisians. Calling our label dumb is kind of like calling the label Christian dumb, ya know what I mean?

Yeah, I think all labels are weird, so I do know what you mean. The last thing I am is politically correct, so I find most anything funny. It's just my thought, and that doesn't change anything. I don't find the concepts to be weird, just the descriptive wordings. And I can't stand the term Christian because not unlike Buddhism, they point to worshipping people who were simply spreading a system of beliefs. So even being Catholic myself and a "christian" per se, I find it dumb label to call myself. I don't care what people call themselves but I ain't apologizing for my opinion.

_Banbha_
November 29th, 2006, 05:09 PM
People here love to play the part of tolerant pacifists but when another comes with different views in themselves people begin to see that there is no tolerance here at all but intolerance hidden behind the term of tolerance.

Generalize, assume or project much? Seriously, are you talking to me here about the brief reply I made?
These are separate 'issue/s' you may have which do not concern me.


I am a dualist and already there are people trying to convert me to their ways............

Marvelous world , isn't it?

Yes, lovely.

So, the mere suggestion of 'imagining' what perception is beyond dualism is an attempt to convert? Convert to what? To a different philosophical viewpoint? To my 'ways' of which you don't even know?

Here's what you were asking and I replied to:

Why is it so many people use it in terms of what is opposite of harmony or order these days?

Also if that is the way you use it you do realize that state of the cosmos is no more.

I am not trying to be insulting but rather I am trying to understand such views.

If you are so threatened by fears of 'conversion' please to temper your questioning on public message boards, because people might actually answer them with viewpoints differing from your own.

Comprenez-vous?

Vincent Verthaine
November 29th, 2006, 07:54 PM
Almost sounds like a form of superiority over us mere humble pagans................

For a group that does not like absolutes you sure are sounding absolute yourself.

If that's how you want to see it,that's on you.

I'm a double leo,so I fully admit i'm an arrogant bastard.
But that has to do with me personally,not with discordianism.
So while I fully admit that I let my own vanity slip in there,and I got a little too pompous,I feel my sentiments where correct,even if i did come off as an asshole in the end.

While I may think my own farts smell like roses,I do understand that no one else is required to believe that my farts smell anything other then poo-poo.
I will take no offense If I cut one loose and everyone holds their noses and gags.
I will do something that I see very little of nowadays.
To find out what that is,see my response to Cassie below

May I point out that I am not a group,I am an individual.
I am just as much a screeching hairless monkey as everyone else here.
I am no better,nor any worse,then anyone else.
I am quite capable of making mistakes,and being an ass, again, see my response to Cassie below....



I am a dualist and already there are people trying to convert me to their ways............

Marvelous world , isn't it?



So you are dualist.No skin off my teeth.
Believe whatever you want.
But just becuase you see the world in terms of black and white,doesn't mean that everyone else has to,and it doesn't change the fact that the universe contians MAYBE.



I see two points of possible disagreement here. Firstly in the post this quote was snipped from, you speak strongly against the tendency towards dualism and thinking in absolutes and yet the way you have written that last sentence "The human vanity hates to be shown the TRUTH" seems to me to be an absolutest statement. Moreover, wether it is intended or not, there seems to be something rather arrogant in the the notion that we know what is truth and you don't. This is something that tends to upset people no matter what religion or philosophy espouses it.
I promised that I will do that very few people seem to be capable of nowadays,and here it is....

What can I say,Cassie,except that you are right and I was wrong.
I did come off way too arrogant.I admit it and I apologize.
I have always been man enough to admit my own mistakes.

My apolgies to everyone for the stinky fart I laid in the elevator.

I'll try to be more carefull next time.

What I should of wrote was,"the human vanity hates to be told that it is not the center of the universe".



The second point is that while there is much to be applauded in encouraging people to question their own beliefs, some care and thought needs to be taken over the context and method in which it is done. Mysticwicks has much scope to debate issues yet at it's heart it is supposed to be a 'spiritual sanctury'. As such, there are some situations and parts of the site where harmony is more valid and needed than discord. Members have a right to hope that the walls of their sanctuary will not be pushed and pushed untill the structure tumbles in on itself.

Again,I agree with you.Only an idiot continues to bang into a solid brick wall.

Wolfpoet
November 29th, 2006, 08:15 PM
People here love to play the part of tolerant pacifists but when another comes with different views in themselves people begin to see that there is no tolerance here at all but intolerance hidden behind the term of tolerance.



I am a dualist and already there are people trying to convert me to their ways............

Marvelous world , isn't it?

The world is an education in conflict. You believe Loki is an evil God that should not be worshipped, I see him as an essential part of the Norse pantheon every bit as worthy of reverence as Odin.

No Human can ever be a pacifist, this forum is a case in point. We have so many Pagans and Wiccans who are all cute and pacifistic when talking about their own faiths yet bring out the knives when discussing Christians or Discordians.

Everybody's way is the TRUE way and we all feel smug about those misguided fools who won't see the light. Discordians see their "truth" as revealing everybody elses lies. They can be smug, arrogant and pompous at times, but that does not make thier message any less worthy than that of another religion.

The reason allot of other religions fear and hate Discordians is because Discordians don't follow the rules, but follow them to the letter. It's their ability to be one thing while being completely against that thing that makes them so bloody infuriating. In them we see our own foolishness, our own blind belief in dogma and our own lack of self-awareness and rigid thought.

Discordianism is a joke wrapped up in a religion tied with a joke and signed on a religion. It's both and neither and perhaps the most dangerous thing around. Change is the one thing people fear above all else and Discordianism is the avatar of change.

Incidently Eris is a Goddess of Discord and a goddess of war, a combination people need to remember when they get the knives out and go for her followers. People who follow a war deity are people who know how to fight back when they are attacked. People who follow a pacifistic deity have no option but to run and hide when their attacks initaite a retaliation.

I've noticed the original people who came out and showed disrespect to Discordians have hidden in their warrens now that people are bringing out the big guns. Thse who remain are those most likely to pay attention and understand what the Discordians are trying to say, or at least try to.

All is as it should be.

Lunacie
November 29th, 2006, 08:33 PM
What "big guns"?

I didn't remember there being that many who were disrespectful of Discordians or Discordianism in this thread, so I skimmed back through the first third of the posts. I only found two posters who were disrespectful. One basically posted an opinion and then shut up. The other was Admin-ned and may have been temp banned which would explain her absence.

Wolfpoet
November 29th, 2006, 08:46 PM
What "big guns"?

.

Rational debate, logical answers and informative replies to honest questions.

The biggets damn guns you can wheel into any kind of discussion.

Lunacie
November 29th, 2006, 08:52 PM
Rational debate, logical answers and informative replies to honest questions.

The biggets damn guns you can wheel into any kind of discussion.

Okay... but not all the responses have met that criteria. ;)


biggets = biggest... Kissed by the typo fairy, eh? :lol:

Wolfpoet
November 29th, 2006, 08:58 PM
biggets = biggest... Kissed by the typo fairy, eh? :lol:

It's 00:58 and the typo Daemon has made me his female domesticated canine.

Vincent Verthaine
November 29th, 2006, 09:05 PM
What "big guns"?

I didn't remember there being that many who were disrespectful of Discordians or Discordianism in this thread, so I skimmed back through the first third of the posts. I only found two posters who were disrespectful. One basically posted an opinion and then shut up. The other was Admin-ned and may have been temp banned which would explain her absence.

Yep,that's true.But when someone tosses a rock at a hornets nest,you gotta expect the hornets to come out buzzing.

I realize that quite a lot of people here who are not discordians have stood up and defended discordianism,and I hope that any discordian who reads this keeps that in mind.

Let's keep the discordian tendency to go overboard in check until we are sure that it is absolutely warrented,mmmkay guys.No need to get worked over nothing.

Of course,the surest way to avoid any further misunderstandings is if those who we felt were disrespectful would actually apologize.

But I'm not holding my breath.

But like I wrote previously,it seems very few people are ever willing to admit they are wrong,or at least apologize if they offend someone.

SwordsFlameSong
November 29th, 2006, 10:45 PM
But like I wrote previously,it seems very few people are ever willing to admit they are wrong,or at least apologize if they offend someone.

That is definitely par for the course with human nature.

I have been beat up and had rocks thrown at me because I am pagan. I have had pagans bash me because I don't believe in the Rede and will defend my Christian friends. Which makes no sense to me as I am not Wiccan.

I guess I just have no truck with "holy wars". That's in general. A person should be defined by the quality of their actions and words - not a spiritual label.

<shrugs> Perhaps I am being too simplistic for some perhaps not.

To me you are Vincent. Wolfpoet is Wolfpoet. Minerva Mind is Minerva Mind and I am me etc and so on.

The labels applied to any of us doesn't define us as people. WE do that by being who we are.

Grimr
November 30th, 2006, 02:18 AM
Generalize, assume or project much? Seriously, are you talking to me here about the brief reply I made?
These are separate 'issue/s' you may have which do not concern me.



Yes, lovely.

So, the mere suggestion of 'imagining' what perception is beyond dualism is an attempt to convert? Convert to what? To a different philosophical viewpoint? To my 'ways' of which you don't even know?

Here's what you were asking and I replied to:


If you are so threatened by fears of 'conversion' please to temper your questioning on public message boards, because people might actually answer them with viewpoints differing from your own.

Comprenez-vous?


I think you know where I was going.

Your elaborate post is a nice way of shifting all the burden of your actions on me.

I will not reply to such absurdity.

Grimr
November 30th, 2006, 02:19 AM
If that's how you want to see it,that's on you.

I'm a double leo,so I fully admit i'm an arrogant bastard.
But that has to do with me personally,not with discordianism.
So while I fully admit that I let my own vanity slip in there,and I got a little too pompous,I feel my sentiments where correct,even if i did come off as an asshole in the end.

While I may think my own farts smell like roses,I do understand that no one else is required to believe that my farts smell anything other then poo-poo.
I will take no offense If I cut one loose and everyone holds their noses and gags.
I will do something that I see very little of nowadays.
To find out what that is,see my response to Cassie below

May I point out that I am not a group,I am an individual.
I am just as much a screeching hairless monkey as everyone else here.
I am no better,nor any worse,then anyone else.
I am quite capable of making mistakes,and being an ass, again, see my response to Cassie below....




So you are dualist.No skin off my teeth.
Believe whatever you want.
But just becuase you see the world in terms of black and white,doesn't mean that everyone else has to,and it doesn't change the fact that the universe contians MAYBE.



I promised that I will do that very few people seem to be capable of nowadays,and here it is....

What can I say,Cassie,except that you are right and I was wrong.
I did come off way too arrogant.I admit it and I apologize.
I have always been man enough to admit my own mistakes.

My apolgies to everyone for the stinky fart I laid in the elevator.

I'll try to be more carefull next time.

What I should of wrote was,"the human vanity hates to be told that it is not the center of the universe".



Again,I agree with you.Only an idiot continues to bang into a solid brick wall.

Sounds fair ,were square.

Grimr
November 30th, 2006, 02:22 AM
The world is an education in conflict. You believe Loki is an evil God that should not be worshipped, I see him as an essential part of the Norse pantheon every bit as worthy of reverence as Odin.

No Human can ever be a pacifist, this forum is a case in point. We have so many Pagans and Wiccans who are all cute and pacifistic when talking about their own faiths yet bring out the knives when discussing Christians or Discordians.

Everybody's way is the TRUE way and we all feel smug about those misguided fools who won't see the light. Discordians see their "truth" as revealing everybody elses lies. They can be smug, arrogant and pompous at times, but that does not make thier message any less worthy than that of another religion.

The reason allot of other religions fear and hate Discordians is because Discordians don't follow the rules, but follow them to the letter. It's their ability to be one thing while being completely against that thing that makes them so bloody infuriating. In them we see our own foolishness, our own blind belief in dogma and our own lack of self-awareness and rigid thought.

Discordianism is a joke wrapped up in a religion tied with a joke and signed on a religion. It's both and neither and perhaps the most dangerous thing around. Change is the one thing people fear above all else and Discordianism is the avatar of change.

Incidently Eris is a Goddess of Discord and a goddess of war, a combination people need to remember when they get the knives out and go for her followers. People who follow a war deity are people who know how to fight back when they are attacked. People who follow a pacifistic deity have no option but to run and hide when their attacks initaite a retaliation.

I've noticed the original people who came out and showed disrespect to Discordians have hidden in their warrens now that people are bringing out the big guns. Thse who remain are those most likely to pay attention and understand what the Discordians are trying to say, or at least try to.

All is as it should be.


Alright.

Well I was just poking and probing my way in discussing the subject.

It was not my intention to insult.

As I said......To each their own.

Cassie
November 30th, 2006, 04:37 AM
What I should of wrote was,"the human vanity hates to be told that it is not the center of the universe".




Thanks for clarifying Vincent. :)

_Banbha_
November 30th, 2006, 09:07 AM
I think you know where I was going.

Your elaborate post is a nice way of shifting all the burden of your actions on me.

I will not reply to such absurdity.

1) I don't make assumptions. I don't pretend know you. Quit assuming you know me, it's creepy and stalkerish.

2) What actions? :spaceman:

3) Too late.

Graud
November 30th, 2006, 01:54 PM
I don’t want to alarm anyone, but these so-called “Discordians” are actually quite dangerous, and completely full of dis- and mis-information.

Their claims that “the universe is chaos”, meaning a state of order and disorder, is highly untrue.

Particle physics has revealed that there are rules to what is goin on in reality. Things don’t happen willy-nilly. There are equations and formulas that govern our entire state of existence. And since “as above, so below,” that means we humans must follow rules, and we must keep order.

You want to live in disorder? Move to Darfur. There’s what your goddess gets you: Pain, death, suffering, and despair. Without order, without rules, mankind cannot resist the urge to hurt themselves in so many fiendish and evil ways.

These so-called Discordians might seem to be intelligent, and self-reliant, but they rely on the already-established rules and laws of the land to keep them safe and sheltered while they spout off foolish notions of being “free”.

Even their jokes, rants, and one-liners are in a very strict order: the order of language, without which we could not communicate. All their words and rants and posts here are in a coherent order, and they follow rules. The alternative would be gibberish.

To go even further, to even post on these boards, one must follow the rules and protocols of the Internet and computers (which, I should point out, is a binary system, there is no “middle” in a computer circuit).

These so-called Discordians are merely playing at Disorder, purposefully deceiving others into not seeing the underlying order of the universe. They are leading themselves, and those who follow them, into a life of pain, and suffering.

Felidae
November 30th, 2006, 01:59 PM
I don’t want to alarm anyone, but these so-called “Discordians” are actually quite dangerous, and completely full of dis- and mis-information.

Their claims that “the universe is chaos”, meaning a state of order and disorder, is highly untrue.

Particle physics has revealed that there are rules to what is goin on in reality. Things don’t happen willy-nilly. There are equations and formulas that govern our entire state of existence. And since “as above, so below,” that means we humans must follow rules, and we must keep order.

You want to live in disorder? Move to Darfur. There’s what your goddess gets you: Pain, death, suffering, and despair. Without order, without rules, mankind cannot resist the urge to hurt themselves in so many fiendish and evil ways.

These so-called Discordians might seem to be intelligent, and self-reliant, but they rely on the already-established rules and laws of the land to keep them safe and sheltered while they spout off foolish notions of being “free”.

Even their jokes, rants, and one-liners are in a very strict order: the order of language, without which we could not communicate. All their words and rants and posts here are in a coherent order, and they follow rules. The alternative would be gibberish.

To go even further, to even post on these boards, one must follow the rules and protocols of the Internet and computers (which, I should point out, is a binary system, there is no “middle” in a computer circuit).

These so-called Discordians are merely playing at Disorder, purposefully deceiving others into not seeing the underlying order of the universe. They are leading themselves, and those who follow them, into a life of pain, and suffering.

Well, since a lot of "these so-called Discordians" have become my friends and I don't know you from Adam's House Cat I'll just

:lol:

and move on.