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Earthcup
March 19th, 2002, 05:32 PM
I was reading last night that the age of Aries, the ram, was an age marked by a great deal of animal sacrafice. The age of Pisces dawned with a religous revolution which was and still is represented by fish(little plastic ones on cars!).

So just for the sake of argument, if the Ram brought animal sacrafice to the religous mainstream*, and Jesus made everyone "fishers of men", then who and what will the Water Bearer bring?

What do you think water bearing means for religon in the next 2000 years? Will there be a person who is identified as a water bearer as Jesus was identified with fish? Do the previous ages give us any clues as to what to expect in the next age? Do you think there is any astrological influence on each age?

I've heard that the last 200 years we've been on the cusp of the Aquarian age and a great deal has been acomplished in that short time. Coincidence?

*I'm sure there was animal sacrafice in religon long before the Aries age, any clarification on this is very welcome!

Danustouch
March 19th, 2002, 07:32 PM
Funny you should mention that, Earthcup. My husband and I have spoken of this in the past, and we've always assumed that Jesus lived in the age of pices...

Earthcup
March 19th, 2002, 10:55 PM
I may be off a few years but I think the age of pisces began around 15 C.E. so he would have been there at the start.

I was reading a book about a Christian heresy and they mentioned the connection between the religous tone of the ages and the sign of the age. I'm not sure they're accurate on the animal sacrafice thing and the age of aries but it was an interesting idea.

It got me to wondering what significance the waterbearer would have for the aquarian age, which officially starts around 2012, right?

Danustouch
March 19th, 2002, 11:05 PM
I dunno...Floods?

Earthcup
March 19th, 2002, 11:25 PM
I hope not! :lol:

"Fishers of men" is a good description of Christianity. They are the major religon of the Western world, as if they had cast a net over it.

Water is an important element for survival. Someone who bears water, even symbolically, is an asset to their community. So in a religous/mythic sense maybe this is someone* who brings a vital element to spirituality in the next age?

*a person, group, culture, whale, daisy, alien, etc...

Mnemosyne
March 20th, 2002, 01:31 AM
Interesting topic! ;) To answer one of your questions, yes, animal sacrifice was around long before the age of Aries. Remember that the ancient Greeks held festivals for their gods, and at these festivals, they would sacrifice animals for their gods. I think that I read that even prehistoric man would sacrifice animals, and these sacrifices suggest that even prehistoric man was spiritual.

I am very ignorant on the issue of how astrology plays an impact on history. How long does an age last in your opinion? For instance, how long was the Age of Aries or the Age of Aquarius? How do people account for a vast amount of change in a short time period? I ask this question after thinking that the Renaissance, Reformation, and Scientific Revolution took place rather close to one another in Europe, but affected the people in different ways. Aaaggghhhh! I just had a long day at work, so I hope my questions make some sense.

Earthcup
March 20th, 2002, 09:15 PM
An age lasts 2000 years give or take a few. It just means the earth is moving into that constellations section of the Milky Way. Nothing too mystical, just tracks our progress through the galaxy.

So around 10 C.E. our solar system moved into the pisces area from the aries constellation's area. In ten years or so we will have officially moved from pisces to aquarius.

So the idea is that if the zodiac signs affect us as humans, would they affect the planet and civillisation as well?

The aries one I'm not as sure about. I knew people didn't just start animal sacrafice a mere 4000 years ago but maybe there was something going on to do with rams or lambs?

The rise of Christianity and it's association with fish is both coincindental and designed. While Jesus has many connections with fishy things in the gospels, it isn't until the Hellenes and mediterranian cultures see the mythic proportions of his life that he is called Kyrios, which means bearer or perhaps "lord of the age". He died as the "lamb of God" which represented to them the dying age of aries and fit in with the sacraficial king myth.

Anyway, reading about this I began to wonder what the next age might bring and whether "water bearing" would be an important concept in spirituality in the aquarian age...

*please feel free to correct anything that's wrong!:D

Earthcup
March 20th, 2002, 09:21 PM
I am very ignorant on the issue of how astrology plays an impact on history.

:DI'm not very good at astrology myself and can't remember history very well even though I love it. I've been reading about Christian heresies and this came up and it started me thinking.....


How do people account for a vast amount of change in a short time period? I ask this question after thinking that the Renaissance, Reformation, and Scientific Revolution took place rather close to one another in Europe, but affected the people in different ways. Aaaggghhhh! I just had a long day at work, so I hope my questions make some sense.

Well, the last 200 years I guess you could say we were on the cusp of Aquarius and Aquarius is known for being a revolutionary sign I believe. That would explain part of the Industrial Revolution I guess. I'm not sure. Maybe our solar sytems approach to aquarius had some influence...*shrugs*

Mnemosyne
March 20th, 2002, 09:30 PM
Thanks for clarifying the concept for me and teaching me something new today! There are something interesting coincidences with the Age of Aries and Christ. However, how else did the Age of Aries affect the two thousand year period? I think that it may be difficult to assume that an age would affect history so vastly in a two thousand year period. So much will happen in that time period.

Earthcup
March 20th, 2002, 09:38 PM
I'm not really sure. My history is patchy and I'm not certain about the claim that the age aries affected religous worship from 2000 B.C.E. to the rise of Christianity.

There was animal sacrafice but that existed before then. Maybe there was more worship of horned dieties, like Pan?:huh:

I'm hoping some nice Religio Romana, Hellene, Celtic, Norse, Slavic or Egyptian recon will drop by with some insights....:D

Mnemosyne
March 20th, 2002, 09:46 PM
Ok, I think that you just answered your question by answering how we can account for so many changes in the last few hundred years. You said that the ages were switching from Aries to Aquarius, and Aquarius is a sign of revolution. Perhaps we'll have more exciting changes in this age. Like you, I hope that people from various backgrounds offer their two cents on the issue. Perhaps, someone who is clever at astrology will help answer our questions. I'm alright at history, but I am quite ignorant when it comes to astrology.

Earthcup
March 20th, 2002, 10:31 PM
I'm a Pisces! And that's what I know about astrology! :lol:

I keep meaning to find a good book on astrology so I can figure out just what the houses are but I've been lazy....:D

Mnemosyne
March 20th, 2002, 10:55 PM
lol. :lol: You sound like me. I know a little about astrology. The main thing that I know is that I'm a leo. I too have been eager to know more about the subject. Maybe we can learn more from the astrology forum.

Mnemosyne
March 22nd, 2002, 09:34 PM
Ok, I think that I finally remembered how Jesus became associated with fish. In English, people say that "Jesus Christ, the son of god." In the Greek language, the Greeks would say, "Iesous Xristos theou uios." When you take the first Greek letter of each of these words, you get the word "ixthu." That word means "fish" in Greek. So eventually, Jesus became associated with fish because of this acronym. I don't know if the Age of Pisces influenced Jesus being called "ixthu" or fish. Does your book say anthing on this interesting tidbit of useless information, Earthcup?

So I have been looking for answers about how the Age of Aquarius will affect history. I've noticed that a lot of people believe that the Age of Aquarius will focus more on individuality than religion. Has anyone else seen that this age will focus more on individuality?

Twilight Garden
March 23rd, 2002, 12:12 AM
Aquarians are typically humanitarian and looking for the world peace rather than peace for themselves. They would rather be stressed and working for a great cause than be at peace with themselves. They are also typically open minded, forward thinking and have broad views. I would put all of that into a general world outlook and assume that is what is to come. *shrugs* I don't know. That's just how I might see it. Maybe there will be more 'We Are The Worlds' and Sci Fi flicks...

Myst
March 23rd, 2002, 02:30 AM
To me aquarius represents water (as mentioned), and water reminds me of the womb and Goddess. The Goddess reminds me of polarity and acceptance that all religions are one path to the All, as well as the safety and security of the womb. In the womb we are untouched by prejudice or labels, nor blocked by the belief that "make believe is not real'. It is a true age of innocence and equality. This also reminds me of what LunarMist said, that aquarians are typically for world peace. To me the age of aquarius could mean a more peaceful time, and one where people will feel freer in spirituality. This also connects with being "open minded" as aquarians are, and back to believing in "make believe". As we all know, if you think something could be real or is real, it can be, but if you think it's not, you can never really see it. So perhaps this age of open mindedness will also bring on more spiritual happenings and activities. Maybe some of us will connect further with the astral or spiritual. Maybe for some reason we'll come closer to divinity or understand it better. Maybe we'll all feel more free to talk about our beliefs publicly, and practice them without persecution.

Kind of rambling here, but this is what I hope for. :)

Earthcup
March 27th, 2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by Mnemosyne
Ok, I think that I finally remembered how Jesus became associated with fish. In English, people say that "Jesus Christ, the son of god." In the Greek language, the Greeks would say, "Iesous Xristos theou uios." When you take the first Greek letter of each of these words, you get the word "ixthu." That word means "fish" in Greek. So eventually, Jesus became associated with fish because of this acronym. I don't know if the Age of Pisces influenced Jesus being called "ixthu" or fish. Does your book say anthing on this interesting tidbit of useless information, Earthcup?

Yeah it does, some info on gematria which I haven't had the chance to ask a Greek speaking Hellene about yet...

It's "The Goddess in the Gospels" by Margaret Starbird. She's a Christian heretic, books are very interesting to both Christians and Pagans I think. She also wrote "The Woman with the Alabaster Jar" about Mary Magdalene.

Earthcup
March 27th, 2002, 05:10 PM
I have a Seneca creation myth/prophecy that claims we are heading into the fifth world where we will learn to use our inner gifts and live in harmony with our planet and it's creatures. The fourth world is called the world of seperation and ends pretty soon. In the story it's the only world that doesn't end in disaster because humans slowly began to change in time.

It's in the book "There Were Other Council Fires Here Before Ours". It's an interesting story.

Water makes me think of the sea and Dar Williams' song about the ocean. I'm not sure what the next age will bring. Something vital I think (hope).

I tend to think in scifi terms when I think of the far future. Maybe something amazing will happen and poverty, hunger, disease and pollution will all be wiped out and we won't need money and we will explore deep space and bodly go where no man has gone before........:D

Totally OT
If you have an earth-centric faith and you go on a long exploration journey into deep space, how does that affect your religon? :huh:

Mesektet
September 20th, 2006, 04:05 PM
Astrological Age and History....hmmm... My vote is in with the "don't know." I think one would be hard pressed to find multiple cultural histories that agree on the same astrological concepts to see if they synch up. Having been a history student for the past 6 years, I have never even found any reference to the "Age of Aquarius" or "Piscean Age" or anything similarly related outside of "Hair" and "The Da Vinci Code." Kind of figured it to be a western civ. modern concept.

ValD
September 25th, 2006, 11:35 AM
OK kiddies, sit down, get comfy and let Gramma Val tell you about Astrological Ages.
It all starts with precession - that's the astronomical phenomena that make the stars and constellations apparently shift backwards in the skies over millenia. Now, both astrologers and astronomers measure the full round of the heavens from the Vernal Point, which is the point in the starry sky where the Sun rises each Spring Equinox.
Because of Precession, this point shifts backwards in the sky each year, very very slowly. It takes around 26,000 years to get fully around the sky.
At the present time, it lies in the astronomical constellation of Pisces. around 3,000 years ago, it was in the constellation of Aries. Before that, it was the Taurus constellation and so on.
With me so far? Good.
Now, if the constellations were all exactly the same size, there would be a neat transition every - OK, somebody tell me what 26,000 divided by 12 is? Oh Isis, very good! Yes, 2,000 and a bit! Get your calculators out, and it's - yes, Jonathon! It's 2,171 years!
Some astrologers thought that these divisions were the same as the zodiac signs, and came up with the idea of Astrological Ages. Every 2,000 years or so, they said, the Earth moved into a New Age; and each of these Ages produced historical charactieristics corresponding to the equivalent Zodiac sign. As proof, they pointed to facts - such that Christianity, which at one time was symbolised by a fish appeared at the beginning of the Age associated with Pisces. Or that the Age of Aries supposedly saw the rise of Judaism, which at one time sacrificed rams.
However, unlike Zodiac signs, the constellations up in the sky aren't all the same size - some are bigger, some smaller. Also, where exactly dooes one constellation end and another begin?
No, Isis, I don't know - I was asking a rhetorical question. Google 'rhetorical' later, hey?

Anyway, I think that's enough of an explanation for now - Gramma's getting tired and you should all be out playing. What it all means it that the "Age of Aquarius" that you've all heard about probably won't be starting for at least another couple of hundred years; and it will be a very slow transition.
And it may not mean anything at all, anyway.

plumedsnake
October 21st, 2006, 09:50 AM
2160 years approximately for each sign. Actually.

Yes Mesektet, one would be hard pressed to find multiple cultural histories that explicitly demonstrated the precession of the equinox in the ways they evolved.

However, outside of Hair and Da Vinci Code there was a tradition going back millenia that believed the precession had an effect on something. But what exactly was the area of influence the precession. Some would suggest that it were religious. The sign of the age would determine the efficacy of religious practice. The rituals of the age of aries would no longer be of as much relevance in the age of Pisces. etc.

Belief in the Zodiac was esoterically a part of Judaism. Furthermore the early christians were steeped in astrological symbolism. Jesus himself was well aware of the precession of the equinoxes and made reference to it and other astrological terms.

Maybe it was kind of like a self fulfilling prophecy. Kind of like, Jesus reading that the messiah would enter Jerusalem riding on a donkey and then going out to hire a donkey in order to fulfill prophecy when he entered Jerusalem.

'No other sign will be given to this generation than the sign of Jonah'. By which he meant that he was to die and then on the 3rd day rise again. The sign of Jonah is Pisces. That is the principle myth of Pisces.

Aquarius has it's own myths. The story of GAnymede, the story of Noah, the story of Gilgamesh and Deucalion etc etc etc.

Got to go