hehehe really bad pun and they didn't even realise it... lol

[TheTempestuous1]

"In the United States, reports of priests who have molested children have mounted " 8O :rotfl: :lol: nuff said

[Sequoia]

-_-; not that funny. . . . I mean it is, but it isn't. . . .

[Phoenix Blue]

Sorta like when the ostrich bites the reporter's nose in the TV outtakes. . . it's funny, but then again, the ostrich ends up with this really bad taste in its mouth (and eventually registers Republican as a result). . .

[Danustouch]

Phoenix...now THAT was actually funny :)

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by TheTempestuous1
"In the United States, reports of priests who have molested children have mounted " 8O :rotfl: :lol: nuff said

Yes. It seems the Catholic church has become, now more than ever, nothing but a refuge for perverts and sex offenders. I read in TIME that the Vatican had to write off $1 billion the past few years in settlements to molestation victims. Really, is there anybody left who seriously trusts their priest any more?

[Psyche Ague]

*chuckles at the tasteless joke* ;)

Illuminatus, not all Roman Catholic priests are homosexuals, sex offenders, perverts, or pedophiles. And, yes, people do still trust priests. My mother is Catholic and I was raised Catholic. I would still trust my parish priest if I were still Catholic (I was an altar girl). I don't like the religion much (never did), but the people were always decent to me (and still are). I think maybe these incidents should be a wakeup call to those who are in charge. It's long past time for a new pope. This one has lived for too long and has been there too long. Personally, I think priests should be allowed to marry. I think celebacy is a problem for many. Priests are human, after all. I mean, they obviously shouldn't pursue children sexually, but it couldn't hurt to allow them to marry and to allow women to become priests. But that won't happen with the current pope.

[TheTempestuous1]

yeah yeah i know, the poor children..and it is really a sad thing that it happened, but I did say bad pun hehe I just appreciated it from a purely humorous point of view :) and you know what George Carlin says, you can joke about anything! :D And psyche I agree with you about the pope. I was an alter girl/raised catholic too.

[Myst]

Hypocrisy is the worse isn't it, Ill.

[Danustouch]

One point of clarification....while I do believe that Priests should be able to marry, I don't think that that will cure the Pedophilia problem. The thing is, pedophilia isn't a disease which is caused by celibacy. Pedophiles may find the Church an easy place to hide out...but their "leanings" aren't caused by their celibacy. The only thing that will keep Pedophilia out of the church, is by rigid screening procedures, and psychological examinations, performed on the Priests. And, by continuing to educate children about "Bad Touch" and "Good touch", and that if anyone tries to get them to do anything in the realm of "Bad Touch", they should immediately tell their parents. Unfortunately, Pedophiles are found in every type of proffession, especially professions in which men and women are in close contact with children. In the Educational field, in boyscout leaders...(many of whom ARE married,and with their own children). The reason why the Priesthood get's such attention about it, is that the ratio of clergy to parishmembers, and because it is such a "Spiritual" role..that it sickens us to think of the hypocrisy involved. It is truly sad that these "spiritual" leaders take such awful advantage of their followers...little children. But I'm not sure that allowing marriage will stop the problem.

[Earthcup]

There are plenty of happily married Protestant pedophiles as well.

It's not just a Catholic problem, but I have noticed you never hear that a Muslim leader or Rabbi has molested kids or slept with the dean's wife.

Is it simply because they are minority faiths here in the USand therefore are less likely to be covered by the media? Or does Christianity in general have more problems with sexual misconduct?

There was an article somewhere on this.....

[Earthcup]

ahhh.. here's the article!

http://www.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?pageLoc=/story/101/story_10199_1.html&boardID=36097

I haven't read it yet, just skimmed the first page.

*going back to read*

[Dalia]

Well, I was raised catholic and still have some faith on it. I agree that priests should be allowed to marry and that there should be women priests. I agree too that celibate has nothing to do with this problems, they should examin every seminarist cause a priest has a lot of power and resposability on his hands! That's why I dont belive in some precepts of the catholic church- (like the confession) And I am pretty sure that this problems are not exclusive to the catholic church, its just that the catholic church is bigger and more "powerfull" somehow has more "importance" or more publicity (please forgive my grammar horrors! LOL!:eek: )

[Earthcup]

I think the celibacy only plays a role in the eyes of the public. A person's imagination hears celibate, jumps to sexually repressed and then to pervert. Living witout sex is an odd concept still, after all these centuries, and people tend to jump to conclusions.

"Of course he's molesting kids. Without a normal sex life what do you expect?"

People tend to believe the worst and hope for the best. So we're always shocked and not really surprised and I think I stopped making sense awhile ago.....

[Dalia]

You do make sense. I mean, the fact that someone "quits" hum "gives up" something doesnt mean that that person will try to fill that necesity doing something bad. I am the one that doesnt make sense LOL! I mean, they chose that life, they chose the celibacy. But that doesnt mean that a person who lives in celibacy will become a pervert. A human being can live a normal without sex. I really tend to think that those people who are perverts, who molest small children, had some bad experience as children themselves. Most of the abusers were victims when they were children and do it as adults as a learned conduct. A human being is emotionally weak in the childhood (specially men) so almost anything can cause him/her a trauma that can lead to phsycological problems, conduct problems. OH, and I agree that there should be a better education on this matter. The parents should tell their children that nobody can touch them "here" and "there". Some parents dont do this because they dont want to corrupt the innocence of their children, but today it is a necesity to teach this to our children, it is vital!!!
Woa, that was way long!

[Earthcup]

I love how people talk about childrens innocence. Sex isn't something dirty and shameful. It's a natural, wholesome part of life and children should be better educated about it.

I knew more about sex at 10 than my mother ever imagined. I watched movies with strong sexual content, looked up dirty words in the dictionary and in my teens searched the web for sex info.

I remained a virgin until I was 18 and was deeply in love with the man I "lost it" to. I was a good kid, wasn't sexually promiscous but was curious. I plan to be pretty open and frank with any children I might have.

I've chosen to remain temporarily celibate and single. I have not yet become a sexual pervert. :lol:

Actually, I doubt I would have made good choices about sex and relationships if I hadn't learned as much about sex, birth control, STDs and relationships as I did. Of course the guy turned out to be a jerk and liar but he left me with only a slight heartache and some good memories.

And now that you know more about me than you've ever wanted I'm going to go do something silly.....:D

[kblackthorne]

Haven't finished reading this thread, but...

Earthcup:


It's not just a Catholic problem, but I have noticed you never hear that a Muslim leader or Rabbi has molested kids or slept with the dean's wife.

Actually, I have a good friend who is a non-practicing Jew. Doesn't really know much about his religion, because he was never taught. His parents had planned a full Temple upbringing for him... until the Rabbi came on to his mom! :eek:

Somehow, they never really went back to Synagog.

[kblackthorne]

they should examin every seminarist

Psychological evaluation & counseling are, in fact, part of the ordination process.

[Danustouch]

Yes, but do they do repeated examinations, and psychological work ups, as well as interview friends, and families of future ordained priests, etc?

[Phoenix Blue]

They don't, but the Air Force Office of Special Investigations does for people who need a Top Secret or higher security clearance. The cost of the process begins at $250,000 per person.

How many Seminaries could stay in business if they charged their students this kind of money for such comprehensive background checks?

[Danustouch]

Incidentally, I'm not sure of the rates of pedophilia within the Jewish Religion, with Rabbi's and all. I haven't heard many cases, at least. But that does not mean they do not exist. It could just mean they go largely unreported.

Here is a link about Sexual Abuse in the Jewish Community:

http://www.thejewishweek.com/top/editletcontent.php3?artid=1740

As far as the Islamic faith, I cannot speak about American Islamic Peoples, because the laws are differen't here. However, in many Islamic Countries, men are allowed to marry VERY young girls. Young girls whom in the eyes of western culture, would seem very much to be the victims of pedophilia. 11 and 12 year olds, etc. Muhammad himself, married a girl when she was six years old, but waited until she was 9 to consummate the marriage. I read a webpage on "Reform Islam" not too long ago, that quoted the Radical Fundamentalist, Ayatollah Kumeni (sp), as saying that a "Man can acheive sexual pleasure from a girl of any age, as long as he does not penetrate. If he does penetrate, he should pay restitution to the childs parents". (this, probably being due to the emphasis on virginity, and the dowry). In Turkey, they are currently rethinking a law they have in place, of mandatory "Virginity Exams" of their young girls age 12-16, because three girls recently killed themselves with Rat poison, to escape the humiliation of the exams. In the eyes of Western Culture, surely, these things qualify as Sexual Molestation, Pedophilia, or at the very least (in the last case) highly invasive, traumatic events upon young girls. However, in many Islamic nations, this is simply their culture. And, of course, they are not alone. Many African countries also marry their daughters off at a very young age. So...DOES pedophilia exist in Islam, and in Judaism? The evidence points to the fact that it does. However, the largest problem with this, is that most of the cases, go largely unreported, or, as in the case of Islam in some Islamic Countries, is deemed socially acceptable, because wedding vows are spoken, and a dowry exchanged.

The Catholic and Protestant religions of Christianity, are mostly "Westernized" So..obviosly, the parishioners of said churches have been educated in Western values, which state that Pedophilia is Wrong, and Harmful to Children. And for the most part, Judaism is under these same Cultural values. Thus, Christianity, and Judaism would acheive far more notice than perpetrators within the other world religions, and cultures.

And..on the issue of Protestant Churches...ohhhhhh..you betcha. One of my old friends used to go to a Non Denominational Fundamentalist Christian Church. This Church has a young group (like the boy scouts), who march up and down in parades, wearing camoflaged outfits, and carrying fake rifles, shouting "We are in the Lords Army". Just to give you an idea of how "STRICTLY SPIRITUAL" this church is. And yet, a few years ago, their pastor was accused of having sexual affairs with 13 of his female parishioners who had come to him for Counseling. The Youngest, being 17.

The thing is, Rape, Molestation, and Pedophilia, are not all about sexuality. They are about "POWER". Whereever you have people who need to feel power, and control, you'll find a population prone to Pedophilia.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Phoenix_Blue
They don't, but the Air Force Office of Special Investigations does for people who need a Top Secret or higher security clearance. The cost of the process begins at $250,000 per person.

How many Seminaries could stay in business if they charged their students this kind of money for such comprehensive background checks?

I have a lot of friends who became contractors for the government... they were cleared as Top Secret, and I KNOW it didn't cost a quarter mil to do it, especially since one of them doesn't make a penny over 35k. Maybe that's what the government CHARGES for it, but that money is certainly being embezzled into other programs. Either that, or your put the decimal point in the wrong place!

- Ill

[Man/Wolf]

It does cost $250k for a top secret clearance with crypto access. I had one. The OSI, The FBI and if you have lived overseas, the NSA or CIA gets involved. They talk to everyone you have ever known it seems like. Salary has nothing to do with it. When I first got mine, I was making $100/mo as an A3C.