Pagan Unity Campaign

[Earthcup]

PUC is attempting to unite Pagans and represent them. However their definition of Pagan has caused some controversy.

They have decided that if they do not consider your faith to be earth-based or life-affirming then you are not Pagan and you will not be represented.

Of course this has caused some outrage from many Pagans who do feel their religon is earth-based or who the PUC has decided are not life-affirming.

Personally, I feel my faith is not earth-based. It is human-based more than anything else. I resent their effort to lump everyone together, whether they like it or not.

Here are some links to discussions and sites on the topic:
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=17838&discussionID=129926

http://www.ecauldron.com/

http://www.partsociety.org/

http://www.paganunitycampaign.org/

[Earthcup]

I just noticed this after I posted:

The Pagan Unity Campaign does not attempt to define "Paganism" nor does it have an "official" definition of Paganism. Paganism includes many diverse paths and traditions and while former staff memebers and current list subscribers have discussed various definitions of Paganism, it is the current administrations position that PUC does not support any official definition and that all previous attempts at defining Paganism are hereby null and void.

That's new...

In any case, what do you think the definition of Pagan is? Do you think your faith is earth-based?

[Cat Goddess]

my faith is not solely earth-based it is "universally-based" i have faith in Spirit Body Mind Earth Supernatural and many other things

[Man/Wolf]

My faith is God and Goddess based. Period. No explanations, excuses, etc.

[Earthcup]

They have removed this official definition from their website but still use it in their political activism.

Therefore they are representing Santeria, Voodoun, Asatru and other religons as brutal and homicidal.

Please take time to e-mail both the PUC and your representatives.

[Earthcup]

There is more info here.

http://forums.delphiforums.com/swordnshield/start

[Sequoia]

my faith can't really be defined. It changes as I change, which is with every breath. I continue to belive in some things, some things change, and sometimes it is I and my realization of what "reality" is to me, that changes.

And that's just one person. Trying to define ALL pagans? I think they're trying to drain the ocean with that one.

[Theres]

as a Wiccan, my religion IS Earth based (among other things). i find that i care less and less about my role in the betterment of 'the human condition'. i feel that as i work toward a better condition for the entire planet, then humans will benefit too as a result.
i am an anarchist at heart. i have no real sympathy for the 'new age'. sure, i donate to what i consider 'worthy' causes when i am able. that just seems right.
but as to a blanket statement about humanity, i don't care to make one. my concern is for my Mother. in doing right by Her, i'm doing the best i can for everyone else, and for me.

[Elida]

I too have a belief that can't be defined, yet it exists it has no name.

But the idea of Pagans Supporting eacher is a great thing, just so long as everyone respects everyone elses beliefs.

[Nyxee]

The PUC had a neat aim, but screwed it up when they excluded a lot of pagan religions with their sound byte catch phrase. At ecauldron, we had huge debates over what exactly "earth-based" and "life affirming" meant.

Personally, my path is earth-centered. But I've never claimed that all pagan paths are similar, and I never will. To do so is stupidity, IMHO. The PUC has had a lot of resignations from chairpeople and whole state lists because of this.

The main offender, one Stormbear Williams, has made himself seem to be a rude, close minded fluffy bunny.

So PARTS (with ICORR) has gathered some indignant people and started the Pagan Diversity Campaign, which can be found at http://www.partsociety.org/

Diversity is our heritage.
Education is our desire.
Tolerance will be our legacy.
www.partsociety.org

[Arduinna]

Yep, I do define my religion as earth based.

actually I think I should qualify, that I consider it to be my definition of earth based, I have no idea what anyone elses definition is.

[Myst]

Mine isn't really earth based. I mean I'm all for earth and stuff, but my practice isn't based on the ground I walk on. Life affirming is up in the air too. Somedays I just don't feel life affirmed :lol:

[Éric]

As one might suppose, I definitely do not support the PUC. I'm rather troubled by the fact roughly half of the respondents to the poll either find older non-Christian religions to be brutal, homocidal, etc., or support those that do. :(

[Myst]

Apparently not everyone is aware of what you claim to be aware of. Easily one can see in Political Pagan that no one else here was aware of the issues you mentioned. The issue is currently under discussion, as you know, and several of us are looking into it. Thanks for making us aware of it.

Maybe those who do support it support pagan unity or see a larger picture. Maybe people here have differing opinions. Maybe people don't necessarily just believe a story they hear from a stranger online without looking into it first. *shrugs*

[Danustouch]

That's just it Myst. Thanks for pointing that out. I think the Poll should be worded differently. First off, I agree with Myst that many who replied here, did not know all of the issues. The original link provided, did not have any anti-other pagan paths messages on the main page. So they based their conclusions on that link. Secondly....the question wasn't phrased "Do you support the PUC and all of their beliefs and actions.". It was "Do you support the PUC". And to many, Pagan Unity is an especially important ideal. If they researched further into the PUC, I'm sure that most people would agree that some things that the PUC is doing, are wrong. I don't think people are as ignorant as you seem to think they are. I think that it's a matter of not having enough information at the time of their posts, not a matter of being predjudiced, or biased, as you so implied. I personally find it extraordinarily offensive, that you would imply this about people whom you do not know. Instead, perhaps you should concentrate on asking them, personally, to tell you WHY They support the PUC, and then make your judgement calls. JMHO. :)

[mol]

*sigh*

Labels...

[Arduinna]

Did someone change the title of the poll? or the Topic?

I thought the question was "do you consider your religion earthbased" I don't remember the question being do you support the PUC?

Or was that another thread? I'm confused??

[Éric]

Originally posted by Danustouch
I personally find it extraordinarily offensive, that you would imply this about people whom you do not know. Instead, perhaps you should concentrate on asking them, personally, to tell you WHY They support the PUC, and then make your judgement calls. JMHO. :)

You find it "extraordinarily offensive"...?

How do you think I feel in all this?

Whomever supports the PUC, I'm sure they have their reasons. Their reasons are largely unimportant to me, however, as long the PUC continues to lie about my religion and people seem willing to support it. "Pagan unity" and the PUC are not the same animal.

I'm not going to get into any personal arguments with anyone over this. If you support them, then you support them. It's unlikely that I could change that, even were I to try. All I can do is present the unfair and bigoted manner in which they're treating members of certain religions. People are free to make their own judgements. They're also free to look into the situation for themselves to learn the facts, as opposed to writing me off as reactionary. That would seem to entail a measure of responsibility, as well as freedom. I have no reason to lie about this. Trust me, if I had my way, none of this would ever have come about.

[Myst]

I can understand that Éric.

I'm glad that you showed up to show part of the other side. This is something we all really need to think about and look into.

[Danustouch]

And nobody is denying your right to be upset. What I am saying, is that it is not a good idea, at this point, to accuse the people who responded to this thread, of supporting the things which you are so against. I don't think that the people who responded here, saying they did support the PUC had enough information at that point. Most people, simply go bye the information that they are provided with, in making a judgement. I'm sure had you stated your opinion in THIS thread, earlier, and given the evidence, they probably would have agreed with you. All I'm saying, is that it would probably be a good thing to not make assumptions about what people do and do not believe about you, and about other people, until they come right out and say..

"So and So, and Such and Such religion are murderous pigs". That's all I'm saying. I'm sure you can understand that. In other words..sometimes it's wiser to ask.."Did you mean that......." instead of declaring ..."I Can see you mean that....". That's all I'm saying.

And yes..if your implication was that these people are biased, and support bias and predjudice, then yes..I am offended. Because I'm offended easily by premature judgements.

[Éric]

You're going to have to be offended, then. :( I'm not going to go soft on this issue to spare someone's feelings. It's simply too important.

In the spirit of fairness, however, I apologize to anyone whom didn't know the facts beforehand. I do have a tendency to assume everyone's on the same playing field. It's something I'm working on.

[Danustouch]

Thanks..thats' all I was saying, is that not everyone is always on the same playing field, and therefore, shouldn't be judged as such. Apology accepted, and I don't expect you to "soften the issue" or to not be angry about what is going on. I can understand it, really. I'm still reading up on it myself. Thinking it over..but I CAN understand why you are angry, and I applaud you for standing up for your beliefs.

[Mystic Wolf]

Pagan is defined as not being Christian, Jewish or Islamic (tied together by their common ancestry) in its simplest terms. By that definition, close to 2/3rds of the world's population are pagan including those faiths such as Buddhist, Hindu and other eastern mythologies.

Of course when the definition was coined, many didn't even know about the far east and its ways much less its religions and faiths.

[Illuminatus]

AS A CARD CARRYING DISCORDIAN I SUPPORT THE PUC AND I PLEDGE MY SWORD TO CUT DOWN ANY INFIDELS WHO NAME THEMSELVES ENEMIES OF THE GLORIOUS PUC AND THE TENNANTS IT STANDS FOR!

LONG LIVE THE PUC!

[Earthcup]

Ok, where is everyone getting these cards? How come I never got one?

I've been giving some though to the earth-based thing and I've decided my religon is based on me and how I interact and view other people, entities and things. It's all about me.

Sorry about the poll being a bit simplistic. I tend to assume everyone follows the same issues I do. It's one of the things I'm working on.

I feel really bad for all those people who put their trust into the PUC only to have it broken.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Earthcup
Ok, where is everyone getting these cards? How come I never got one?

I got mine from a friend, any discordian has a few on his person he uses to convert passers-by.

Or, you can print one out for
yourself:

http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/popecard.html

That site is good, as are others.. do an internet search on "pope card" and you're well on your way.

[Earthcup]

*stands on head to read the back of the card*

I need a new printer...:(

[Xentor]

Mine is universe-based and energy-affirming. I guess I'm not pagan.

[Morr]

i honestly dont care...

[BrightStar]

Hi all!!!
Well,put 10 Pagans in a room,and ask them to define what a Pagan is.
You'll see a fistfight for sure!
The goal of the PUC seems to be to inform elected officials that Pagans do vote,and should not be ignored come election day.
Sending elected officials cards on a certain day of the year,usually the Summer Solstice, that say "I'm a Pagan (fill in the blank)
Such as I'm a Pagan Lawyer,or I'm a Pagan Doctor,or I'm a Pagan cop,and I vote.
Now,if one is going to inform elected officials that they do have a Pagan constituency,they have to define Pagan,and that is where the fights start.
Some Pagans go totally fricky-dicky when they see Satanists listed as Pagans,as they see Satan as a Christian invention.Now,I don't agree with that,but many do.
One of the most active people for the PUC in Oklahoma is voudun(sp?).So,I know they don't discriminate against that path or Santeria.
But,if you look at any group that even attempts to involve Pagans in the political process,you will see all heck break loose.We can't even agree as to what we are.If any group attempts to define it,they are attacked by whoever is left out of the definition.
Pagans can't actually agree on anything politically.Any group formed to do so is attacked from the inside and outside,by Pagans.
So,here's a question.I'm very involved in political activism,and also am a lawyer.I'm also Pagan.
Why should I do anything to help organize Pagans politically?
Why should I try to advance or protect the rights of Pagans at all?
If one is going to be attacked by fellow Pagans for it,why bother?
Peace and Love
BrightStar

[VARG]

I don't like any organization who wishes to 'unify' all Pagans. It's just like american democracy; who says we need to be ruled by humans?

[9-2-2]

I'm a city-slickin' death mage. Bet they'll love that! :toofless:

A couple of years ago, there was dissention among the ranks of the PUC (I'm surprised they're still around), and a huge faction seceded to form another group... I forget what it's called. And the secession was over this very issue. I was a part of that group, and after several years have passed, I was surprised to hear about it again. But yes, the PUC spreads about a lot of nonsense, and just because they deftly remove a quote or two from the website doesn't mean they've changed at the core. It's all stupid nonsense, a play at politics, fame, and label-games. Even though they say they're definition of Pagan is not the only one, they are a big fat face for the rest of the world, and they're still delivering their skewed trash to warp the views for the rest of us. Please thank your local PUC fundie. :)

[Cat]

Internet witch wars...I so don't care.

[Protagonist]

"Pagan" means "non-abrahamic." That's basically it. If they want to redefine it to mean "earth-loving-age-of-aquarius-crystal-ravenwolf," go for it, but you won't have much good conversation at the Pagan potluck.

[Protagonist]

I don't like any organization who wishes to 'unify' all Pagans. It's just like american democracy; who says we need to be ruled by humans?
I don't think the PUC is trying to "rule" anyone.

Furthermore, if not humans, who else is going to rule? If one doesn't support humans ruling themselves... what does one support? Some kind of theocracy in which the Gods are consulted? Even in an anarchist situation, you'd still have humans ruling themselves.

[Semjaza]

My paganism is Land-based, and while it is life-affirming, it is also death-affirming, though I suppose that they are one and the same...

I'll think on it more...

Cheers,

Semjaza
FFFF