Serious Question

[Azrael]

I am curious to know if there are any forbiden or dark rituals or magic (I.E Necromansy) in wicca? I do not anyone to take this the wrong way, I am a very curious person and am very interested in wicca and magic.

[Nect]

hmmm...can you elaborate? I'm just a bit slow...

Nect

[Azrael]

Black Magic

[Nect]

Azrael, I really don't mean to be irritating but, what is *your* definition of 'black magic'?

Personally, I think magick is just magick - I don't relate quite well to the whole deal about black and white magick. In Wicca, we do acknowledge the duality of light and dark, so in that sense, then we *do* pay attention to dark aspects and there are rituals tailored for this facet. However, what I think you mean to ask is stuff like hexing and cursing? That is clearly forbidden, but there isn't a list of Wiccan "can-dos" nor a list of Wiccan "cannot-dos" - we abide by the Rede the best that we can, acknowledge the Threefold Law or Law of Return, and practice magick accordingly (on top of these two basic rules, there are others depending on the tradition you follow). Anything that goes against these rules are forbidden.

Don't know if that helped!

More ideas, people?

Nect

[Azrael]

Thank you for your help, it has explained allot. I know a person who thinks he's a sorcerer (I can't help but laugh at him). What would people be called if they practised the "dark arts" (I know I'm over simplifying this)? Is it possible to become corrupted by evil and walk a dark and evil path? I know these are crazy questions and I hope you all can understand what Im trying to get at. Thanks

[Nina]

In my opinion, there is no black or white magick, just as Nect says. It all depends on your intent. Follow the rede, and only perform magick when it will 'harm none'. And I always consider that if you are trying to make somebody do something, then that is restricting their free-will - and that is harmful.

A good rule of thumb is to say "Would I want someone to do this to me?" If the answer is no, don't do it to someone else. Think through the consequences. If you perform a spell simply saying 'make me rich' and not putting any restrictions on it, there's nothing to say that the divine won't respond with one of your relatives/friends dying and leaving you money in their will. It's an extreme example, but it could happen.

I would not practise magick before learning a lot about it. It's unlikely you will make a horrendous mistake, but it's best to be prepared. Why don't you check out some of the links on this thread:
http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6703

[Azrael]

Thanks for all the help Nina and Nect

[Myst]

Ok, in Wicca, the rule is "harm none". Even that isn't as simple as it seems.

In other branches of Paganism, harming someone else is fine under certain circumstances. Heck in some beliefs the core requirement is that you look out for yourself to the exclusion of everyone else. People who tell you people don't hex or curse eachother have been luckily unaffected; I know because I've been there and had it done.

I'd probably laugh at the guy too, if he calls himself a sorcerer. Not so much because one can't be (I suppose someone could), but because words like that generally aren't used except in role playing games. It sounds like he's just trying to be cool. Usually someone who practices magic without religion is a magician. Very rarely will people call themselves "sorcerers", "wizards", or "mages" outside of games (I've personally never met anyone who has). There's other belief systems based on what some consider "evil", like Satanism etc. but then that's something you should learn more about if you really want to know what it's based on. :D

Personally I'm not Wiccan. I don't follow "harm none" or "threefold laws". In certain circumstances you need to protect yourself, even if means possibly hurting someone, at least to me. This is a choice you have to make for yourself, and it's ok to think about it and rethink about it.. your beliefs may always be changing. Just try to learn what you can and think carefully, and as has been said don't use magic until you have studied it and know the basic techniques involved, and really take the time to find your path and your beliefs.

[Nina]

Should have said that my ideas are definitely Wiccan in flavour! Thanks for clearing that up!!

[Nect]

Me definitely Wiccan in flavor, too! :mmm:

As for hexing and cursing to protect yourself, I would think that self-protection would be sufficient (hopefully, anyway!) in deflecting harm. Prevention is the best cure. If you don't want harm to come your way, for example, focus on strengthening yourself and your shield instead of zapping those who want to do you harm. Certainly, if harm is already in your face, self-defense would be necessary. But then again, there are so many of these hypothetical situations! For Wiccans, as long as "harm none" and "Return" rules resonate loudly and clearly enough in your head *as* you consider to perform any action, magick or not, and adhere to them, then you're fine. What some people call 'white magic' do sound quite friendly, I guess, but without the permission of the person on whom the magick will be worked, i.e., like Nina said, that person's will is not fully respected, then it would be unethical. For example, healing spells are supposedly white, I would guess, but if you worked it on, say, a fundamentalist who detests the very idea of magick, you would be forcing something on him against his will, even if it was supposed to help him.

And your socerer friend, what a cutie! :D Ah, the Dark Arts! (pssst...is he the real life Saruman??? :lol: I beg your pardon, my humor isn't usually that bad, but just couldn't resist this one!) To me, anyone who would classify any kind of magick (although I think there's only one kind) as Dark Arts has very much been swallowed by society's attraction to mysteries. By labeling something 'Dark' and being able to tap into it, this person goes on an ego-trip. And by doing so, this person also believes that magick is something exclusive to some and, basically, is unnatural because only some special ones know about it. But magick *is* natural. It happens. It is not exclusive to certain individuals, and that, I think, would be something your friend wouldn't happily accept.

By the way, Azrael, you're not asking silly questions and I give you a :thumbsup: for laughing at him ;) . Just out of curiosity, does your friend practice a religious path or does he only do magick?

Nect

[Azrael]

He claims to be athiest.

Thanks Nect. I try to enter every situation I encounter with an open mind and I tend to ask lots of questions so I can start to understand what I'm seeing and experiencing. Plus I'm a naturally curious person (Yes I drove my parents crazy with all my questions and getting into everything, now I just drive my wife crazy :D )

[Nect]

Atheist...that's interesting...

:thumbsup: for asking lots of questions! :D An open mind is the best thing anyone can equip themselves with.

You may have managed to drive your parents and wife crazy with your curiosity, but don't you even try to scare us with that! :lol:

Anyway, welcome to MW, Azrael! ;)

Nect

[Mystic Wolf]

I would like to point out that even if you are Wiccan and follow the three-fold law, that some injustices require you to weigh the benefits of the spell and the karma that will bounce back to you. There are things that can be done without harming another but still will cause you "grief" in the long run when you get it back.

[Sequoia]

well, I personally am not Wiccan (although I can't seem to convince my little brother of this.. . -_-; every ten minutes it's "CAN YOU HEX ONE OF MY FRIENDS?" "CAN YOU TURN ME INTO A FROG?" "CAN YOU MAKE ME RICH???" ), though I do practice "magick." It's really just energy work to me, but. . . a rose by any other name ;)

I think that one would define black magic, if there was such a thing, as workings that were done with negative intent. . . or perhaps even things that were done without permission. For example, healing energy is a good thing, 99% of the time. But what if this person didn't want it, or you didn't tell them? How much DIDN'T they want it? Are they of similar faith to you? Just how sick are they, is your energy vital? Depending on those factors, you could be going AGAINST their wishes, and hence prolly get something back, not as you wished it.

Magick is prolly like a wish spell in D&D. You have to be REEAAAAAALLLLLYYY careful with what you wish for. . . (for example. . . a friend of mine wished for a girlfriend and "pussy" . . . to Bast. . . . . . . cats were following him around for a year :D;; )

I think intent is everything. I don't usually use 'spells', I just work with the energy. I guess like an artist would paint on his/her own instead of within lines or to a specific design. . . I mean, sometimes I do. But not normally. I find it works better if I just follow my instincts. I do, however, belive in the idea that if you do something, no matter what, it comes back three times (good or bad. . . so. .. ^^ I try to be good LOL)

btw, Myst. . . ^^; my friends and I have been known to call ourselves mages, to distinguish between what we do, and what say wiccans or other groups do. Because it's not quite the same thing. But no, we're not running around casting Fireball. ;)

[Radocs]

Vas Flam Vas Flam Vas Flam!

Sorry couldn't resist... >_<

[Myst]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
my friends and I have been known to call ourselves mages, to distinguish between what we do, and what say wiccans or other groups do. Because it's not quite the same thing.

Uhhuh. That would be why the sentence was "Very rarely will people call themselves "sorcerers", "wizards", or "mages" outside of games" :D

[Myst]

Originally posted by Radocs
Vas Flam Vas Flam Vas Flam!

hehe! is it bad that I had to go look that up :lol:

[Phoenix Blue]

Quoth Puma Hime:
Magick is prolly like a wish spell in D&D. You have to be REEAAAAAALLLLLYYY careful with what you wish for. . . (for example. . . a friend of mine wished for a girlfriend and "pussy" . . . to Bast. . . . . . . cats were following him around for a year :D;; )
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

"Wrong species! Wrong species!"

[Lyntwyn]

Maybe not. EWWWWW!

[WandererInGray]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
well, I personally am not Wiccan (although I can't seem to convince my little brother of this.. . -_-; every ten minutes it's "CAN YOU HEX ONE OF MY FRIENDS?" "CAN YOU TURN ME INTO A FROG?".....

*grins* Try the..."that would be redundant" response to the frog questions.... ;)




Magick is prolly like a wish spell in D&D. You have to be REEAAAAAALLLLLYYY careful with what you wish for. . . (for example. . . a friend of mine wished for a girlfriend and "pussy" . . . to Bast. . . . . . . cats were following him around for a year :D;; )

:rotfl: That has to be the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!!!

[Myst]

hey wait... Wiccans hex and turn people into frogs... *scratches head* D'oh! Maybe I should be Wiccan after all. I like amphibians!

:lol: (jk!)

[Radocs]

Originally posted by Myst


hehe! is it bad that I had to go look that up :lol:

Depends on how much of an Ultima fan you are. :rolleyes:

[Myst]

Ultima? Actually I wasn't even aware of where it was from, I just happened to find a reference to it on a page of "magery spells" I assumed were from roleplaying :D

[Radocs]

The Ultima series is pretty old though it got pretty bad after #7. Really good RPGs. :)

You may have heard of Ultima Online as well which is loosely based on the series and uses all those crazy magic words. ^_^

[Sequoia]

hehe I've never heard of Ultima. . .