Does it bother you?

[Nect]

There's only one New Age store where I live and although the ambience is sooooooooooo comfy and makes me feel homey, I get a bit disturbed to see that it sells a lot of expensive paraphernalia such as crystal wands, athames, pendulums, etc. Apart from the merchandise being overpriced, the focus quite naturally slips onto the products - or the form - rather than what's behind these items. I understand that the rental is high in that area, so marking prices up a bit is a natural thing to do. But it just makes me uneasy to see that a shop that allegedly promotes spirituality is still so stuck in its opposite - material form. The shop *does* give off the idea that if you pay to come here for a workshop that lasts two hours, you will become more in tune with your spirituality. I'm not saying these workshops don't work, but they really *are* overpriced. They only perpetuate what I would've thought they would want to undermine, that money can even *buy* one's spirituality.

I don't own any expensive Wiccan supplies because, though they are pretty, they don't help me in my practice. I just think it upsetting to see that some who are keen in learning about Wicca (or other paths) are first taken advantage of financially when they step foot into these shops.

What do you think about these shops?

Nect

[Man/Wolf]

We are a capitalistic society. If there is a market, people are going to make money off of it. The ones who are in it to promote spirituality instead of the profit margin are few and far between and most of them go broke in a short time. There are a few who prosper, but not many. Be content that you are able to worship and perform your rituals without the expensive tools. Some think that they can't.

[Phoenix Blue]

I'd kill just to have one. The one shop that was around here, Veronica's Room, seems to have closed. It wasn't even a New Age or Pagan shop--just an aromatherapy shop that sold a few nice Pagan-ish items on the side. **Sighs** But the last time I tried to go down there, on a Tuesday, it was closed.

On the shops in general. . . **shrugs** I go to a shop for what I want to buy. I'm not there to buy the $300 crystal wand, so I don't really pay serious attention to that part of a store's inventory. . .

Does the store have books that I can't find elsewhere? Does it have the "basics"--stones, incense, essential oils--available for an affordable price? Yes? **Grins** Then let the New Agers worry about the $300 price tag for the crystals. And the classes. . . **shrugs** there're lots of ways to improve one's own spirituality. Classes are one way of doing it.

Remember that any store, even a Pagan/New-Age store, is a business first and foremost. The owner has mouths to feed and two roofs to keep over her head. :cool:

[Myst]

I agree with Phoenix_Blue. Also, any source you find isn't worth it's weight in salt if it makes Paganism/magic/Wicca to be all in the tools. We know you don't need any of that stuff at all. Personally I own a few expensive tools because they're nice and I like working with them. :)

[Nect]

True. Let the New Agers worry about the $300 crystals. :) As for the classes, some people do learn better that way, but, like I said, I think they're a bit too expensive. But then again, those who hold those workshops usually fly in from elsewhere, so I guess the costs do balance out (of course, they still make profit).

*Nect wonders what she was going on about*

Nect

[Mystic Wolf]

The shop (The Witches Grove) where I live has those things as well. We also have simple things and herbs that must be imported to our desert area. The emphasis is on the work when anyone asks and not the tools. Our best sellers are books, candles, teas, herbs and oils. A lot of the fancy stuff sits on the shelf for quite some time. Some Pewter and Silver goblets I have been eyeing have been on the shelf since the store opened in 2000. Our classes range in price from $5.00 to $80.00 (a sixteen week course on Tarot).

Now I will admit, that I bought my wife a sword for Yule because she liked it, not because she felt she needed it. Our athames are simple wood handled knives you can find anywhere. We have also bought a few "Toys" there when we can because we support the shop and had some extra money. Mostly we purchase books, candles, the herbs we can't grow locally and some nice gourmet teas.

Most of our other stuff is either common household items re-appropriated for magical and ritual use or things that we have made.

However when I am helping out in the shop, it is my job to try and figure out what they feel they need and best please that need. If they feel they need the $300 crystal ball so they can start learning about scrying instead of placing water in a bowl at home then I won't talk them out of it. If they come to me and say "I want to learn to scry, where do I start?", I will sell them an $8.00 book and have them come back if they have any questions or any other needs. It is that differentiation that makes a good Pagan store. As long as this store isn't trying to take advantage of people, I don't think there is any harm in having the fancy expensive stuff.

The Grove struggles from month to month because we don't hard sell people. However the sell of one crystal ball or a couple of swords is welcome because that will purchase enough oils or incense to sell for the next month. Heck even if all we sold in one day was a $300 dollar crystal ball, that would be a very good day with above average sales.

[shnen]

I have not been fortunate to visit such a shop yet. I do look forward to it, but not the prices, nor do I doubt I will buy anything... ok, well probably I will!
I have bought some stuff from a great little online Canadian store... and they are super great... I want to take a road trip out there sometime to see their physical store. It's a few hours away from Toronto...:) and their prices are really reasonable

[Myst]

What store is that shnen? :)

[shnen]

Flashbacks... it's in St. Thomas

[Sowelu]

I agree with you. That's why I usually make my own ritual tools if I need them. My husband brought home a huge 2 foot round piece of wood home from work. I did some beautiful wood burning work on it with a large pentagram, it took me 4 days to make it...as soon as I can, I will post some pics here. I also made a beautiful hand carved wand and other stuff. Putting your energy into making things-to me-means more sometimes than buying it in a overpriced store. But, yes....ritual tools are really over-priced at some places.
here are a couple of web sites to check out if ya haven't already been to them:
www.capricornslair.com
www.abaxion.com

[Myst]

Originally posted by shnen
Flashbacks... it's in St. Thomas

Yeah. I thought it was either Flashbacks or the Magic Box (Sarnia) or possibly the Mystic Bookshoppe (London). I know the owners of Flashbacks pretty well. Heather always comes to the annual festival we run. *nods*

[shnen]

It's the only place with a good selection and online - that's the big thing for me.. I have spoken to one of the ldies that work there and she was super nice! I also enjoy the handwritten notes I get with the orders... a nice touch!

Hey Myst... 2 questions...
1. "annual festival we run" what one is that?
2. how bad is it snowing out there? it's super bad here!

[Myst]

It's coming down isn't it! Yeesh :) So much for spring..

It's an annual Pagan gathering I'm on staff for, in southwestern Ontario - here's the URL (I'm the webmistress ;)) - http://sacredcircle.bravepages.com

[shnen]

awe yes!!! thanks!;) :D

[MammaStar]

We have one here locally, that's kind of New Age-y as well. The funny thing was, I'd forgotten all about it, until Laiste reminded me!!!! :lol:

I like it, he has tons of herbs & will special order if you desire. Tons of books AND THEY AREN'T ALL LLEWELLYN TITLES EITHER!!! :boing:

There's tons of stuff, all different prices too. It's a store, converted from an old house. When Laiste and I went, we had a blast going through all the different rooms. And yes, we bought stuff as well.

There are other "new age" stores in another town nearby, but, IMO, they cater to the "baby boomer" lost generation. (no offence to boomers out here, my mom is one of them, just an observation). All fluffy bunny crap nothing of substance. Which is why I am so grateful for Laiste reminding me of that "Casa Verde" existed.

[Myst]

was gonna PM it but then I thought "eah, maybe other people would want to know now". Sorry I don't mean to advertise *hangs head in shame* :D

[shnen]

am I southwestern ontario? OOOhhh... I am in a wedding on August 17th... :scream: :meanface: :mad:

[Myst]

hehe I dunno. I'm not really sure where you're from :D

[shnen]

oh, sorry... Toronto! :o

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Nect
There's only one New Age store where I live and although the ambience is sooooooooooo comfy and makes me feel homey, I get a bit disturbed to see that it sells a lot of expensive paraphernalia such as crystal wands, athames, pendulums, etc. Apart from the merchandise being overpriced, the focus quite naturally slips onto the products - or the form - rather than what's behind these items. I understand that the rental is high in that area, so marking prices up a bit is a natural thing to do. But it just makes me uneasy to see that a shop that allegedly promotes spirituality is still so stuck in its opposite - material form. The shop *does* give off the idea that if you pay to come here for a workshop that lasts two hours, you will become more in tune with your spirituality. I'm not saying these workshops don't work, but they really *are* overpriced. They only perpetuate what I would've thought they would want to undermine, that money can even *buy* one's spirituality.

I don't own any expensive Wiccan supplies because, though they are pretty, they don't help me in my practice. I just think it upsetting to see that some who are keen in learning about Wicca (or other paths) are first taken advantage of financially when they step foot into these shops.

What do you think about these shops?

Nect

If you dislike material trappings and the capitolistic system they necessitate, why stick to using exclusively immaginary components and items for your rituals? They're cheaper, and on the astral plane nobody can tell the difference.

- Ill

[Myst]

ahhh *counting on fingers* about 2 hours from TO, give or take :)

[Danustouch]

It doesn't bother me that the "material trappings" exist. I think each person uses what works for them. Some people "NEED" those glamourous/glitzy items to make them feel more "serious" in their rituals. I had a friend who always bought top of the line expensive stuff for her altar, including many expensive antiques. When I asked her why she felt it was necessary, she said..."Because I figure that if I'm going to be asking my God and Goddess for blessings during the rituals, this in some way shows that I'm willing to INVEST in it..it's almost like an offering. A sacrifice.". I can understand what she means. It's not my particular belief, but I can understand it. And it doesn't even bother me when stores charge a lot for this type of item. Because they have to make a living too, and let's face it, Occult Shops probably don't get the level of traffic that a "hallmark" or "kmart" does. It's harder to make a living off of it. Though, I do my research on wholesale dealers, so I know what's fair, and what's not in pricing. The only thing I think bothers me, is when a store offers a class...and then as part of their class they say something to the effect of "To do a protection spell, you'll need a black candle, etc, etc etc. My Protection Spell Kits, cost only 29.95!". I just think that's a little TOO blatant. If a store wants to offer a class, I think they should offer the class without the goal of advertising. Having the class in the store itsself, is most likely advertisement enough. I know I can't walk into an occult shop, without buying SOMETHING. :) Heh. I just don't like it when shop keepers seem to imply that their product is the "Best" product, or the "Only thing that really works". And often, by their advertising in such a way as the above mentioned, subliminally, that's what they are doing. Speicifically, if the class they are offering is a "Begginers Basic" type class, where the people attending haven't been in the craft long enough to really find what is necessary to them to buy, and what is not. I don't know if any of this made sense..but..I'm done now...heh.

[Sowelu]

Myst...are there web sites for those stores you mentioned?

[Myst]

Just flashbacks as far as I know. http://www.flashbacks.on.ca/

[Myst]

Originally posted by shnen
am I southwestern ontario? OOOhhh... I am in a wedding on August 17th...

Just so ya know, you can get day passes and stay there for a few days. I think the Bardic competition will probably be on the weekend especially, but there's workshops, firedancing, all kinds of fun stuff :)

[Sowelu]

Thank You!:)

[Topazz]

Hi, Mystic Wolf. Is that the same Witches Grove shop that was picketed last week by Christian protestors?

[Sowelu]

Hmm?:eek:

[shnen]

JadeDragonFly... about Flashbacks...
You can email them asking for other stuff, their site is currently being updated, but they have tonnes of everything, so if you don't see something you want, it's best to email them and ask.
Just so you know!!!;)

[Sowelu]

Thank You. I am searching around for places to order some good incense. So, if you have any suggestions, please share?;) :D

[Myst]

heh it seems like their website is *always* under construction. :)

[shnen]

They just redid it, and they took off a lot of items, they are trying to do it differently... the place that had something to do with their online orders and payments went belly up... so they had to change it...


JadeDragonfly
they have tones of incense, herbs, gems and stones, oils, etc.
Just email them!

[kblackthorne]

Am I the only one here who remembers the old joke?

"What's the difference between NeoPagan & New Age?
A decimal point."



You said it in your original post. The shop is a New Age shop.

"New Age" is about teaching you (the masses) that I am the guru with all the answers, which you must pay me cold, hard cash to receive. (That bit of wisdom will be $19.95, please.) And by taking this class, you can learn everything you need to know.

Whereas most good Neopagan teachers start out by telling you they DON'T have all the answers... but are willing to share what they have learned.

Now, I'm not trying to completely knock New Age stores. For years I lived in a town that had one, and I went in there regularly. (Where else was I going to get my favorite incense, or books, or charcoal?) Heck, I grew so fond of the store, I still stop in when I go back to that town.

What I AM saying is that you're chiding the New Age store for being New Age. :)

[Lavender]

Originally posted by kblackthorne
Am I the only one here who remembers the old joke?

"What's the difference between NeoPagan & New Age?
A decimal point."


:lol: I remembered it as " About $300.00".

Stores like that don't bother me. Mainly because if I thought the items were too expensive, I won't spend the money for them. I like to make as much of my own stuff as possible. Unfortunately, if they are the only place in town, then they can pretty well charge whatever they want. It's sad still because they're "selling" a way of life that should not have a price tag. But people will pay that much for a rock. There are a lot of stores like that around here. I can walk into some metaphysical store & buy a crystal for $100.00 or I can go to a rock & gem shop & buy a similar crystal for $5.00. A lot of people haven't realized that the only difference is the price tag.

[Mystic Wolf]

Originally posted by Topazz
Hi, Mystic Wolf. Is that the same Witches Grove shop that was picketed last week by Christian protestors?

Yes it is. ;). I just wasn't going to mention it because I didn't want to draw attention to myself.

However overall the public opinion has been very favorable for us. The community is very supportive and has been stopping by the shop.

The local sheriffs department has been investigating and I think they are taking it to the District Attorney this week to file charges so in the end everything is coming out all right. The Goddess has put our little shop on the map. The story was not only picked up by Witchvox but has been reprinted in forty states and 2 countries in Europe so far. The local papers are doing followup stories to deal with the amount of mail they are receiving from around the country (USA) as well. My Teacher and the shop's proprietor have been invited to join the sheriff's community outreach program to educate people on what Wicca and Witchcraft are and what they are not as well as to promote general Paganism.

Anyway I'll let it go at that as I don't want to usurp this thread. If people want they can email me or send me a private message. If there is enough interest I'll start a thread dedicated to our efforts.

[Nect]

Danustouch wrote
I think each person uses what works for them. Some people "NEED" those glamourous/glitzy items to make them feel more "serious" in their rituals. I had a friend who always bought top of the line expensive stuff for her altar, including many expensive antiques. When I asked her why she felt it was necessary, she said..."Because I figure that if I'm going to be asking my God and Goddess for blessings during the rituals, this in some way shows that I'm willing to INVEST in it..it's almost like an offering. A sacrifice.". I can understand what she means. It's not my particular belief, but I can understand it. And it doesn't even bother me when stores charge a lot for this type of item. Because they have to make a living too, and let's face it, Occult Shops probably don't get the level of traffic that a "hallmark" or "kmart" does. It's harder to make a living off of it.
Absolutely, some people like or need these pretty things to put them in the mood...which is something I would probably go for if I could afford it! At the end of the day, it's just "business" that makes things ugly - once it's in the market, profit, not values, shoot to the top of the list. *sighs*


Mystic Wolf wrote
If they feel they need the $300 crystal ball so they can start learning about scrying instead of placing water in a bowl at home then I won't talk them out of it. If they come to me and say "I want to learn to scry, where do I start?", I will sell them an $8.00 book and have them come back if they have any questions or any other needs. It is that differentiation that makes a good Pagan store. As long as this store isn't trying to take advantage of people, I don't think there is any harm in having the fancy expensive stuff.
Agree. I think that was the point I was trying to make! :lol:

Actually, when I thought about it a bit more, I realized it's not the shops that are the problem...it's the consumers! I'm not saying using pretty tools is bad - c'mon, some ARE beautiful! - but it's one thing to know that they help and another to think that one would be powerless without them. And a lot are of the latter group...and they do create the market for these New Age shops. Ack, if I had the money to open a shop, why not sell to these people what they are dying to buy? Sadly, even if a New Age shop owner would sit down and tell its visitors, "Look, spirituality is a personal journey. You do not need to spend hundreds of dollars to pursue it, it's all about your own hard work," I'm sure some people would *still* ask, "How much will you charge me if you taught me this and that?" *sighs* Living in our culture, I guess it's pretty hard to understand the concept of 'pricelessness' when literally everything has a price tag, might as well put one on spirituality.

*sighs again*

Nect

[Myst]

That's true about Pagan books too. "hey look, I read a book, now I know everything about Wicca!" Oy.

[Topazz]

If New Age and Pagan shops depended on people like me to spend money there they would all go out of business. I use next to nothing in the way of tools and paraphernalia. Guess I just have a good imagination. :T

Thanks for your response, Mystic Wolf, glad it is turning into a good thing for you after all. :)

[bluebear]

The best things in life are still free.
Blessings
Bluebear

[kblackthorne]

There's an occult shop a few blocks from where I live. Really good shop, run by a couple of people (& their dogs) who live upstairs from it.

And you know, those folks have turned DOWN my money when I've wanted to spend it as often as not. :) Either advised against a purchase, let me cut herbs at no charge, or whatever. Then again, when I've wanted to drop some bucks on a major item, they can be pretty sure I'll come to them, first.

It looked, a while back, like they might close. (Family emergency -- they needed to go to a sick relative.) When they stayed open (she died), I came in to say hello. As always, I looked for something to spend a few dollars on (incense... always need incese) and got scolded for it. "You don't have to spend money to come in here. We're just happy to see you. Tell your brother to stop by & say hello."



Most of my paraphanalia wasn't bought in a specialty shop. My athamé started out life as a letter-opener. My cauldron came from a flea-market. (Yes, an honest to gods antique cauldron -- with a lid!) My wand was a gift. My chalice was made for me. Candleholders? 99¢ store. Candles? We make 'em at Imbolc.

Do I have "pretties"? Sure.

Did I pay "New Age Shop" prices for 'em? No way on earth!

[Laiste]

Originally posted by LdyStarlite
We have one here locally, that's kind of New Age-y as well. The funny thing was, I'd forgotten all about it, until Laiste reminded me!!!! :lol:

I like it, he has tons of herbs & will special order if you desire. Tons of books AND THEY AREN'T ALL LLEWELLYN TITLES EITHER!!! :boing:

There's tons of stuff, all different prices too. It's a store, converted from an old house. When Laiste and I went, we had a blast going through all the different rooms. And yes, we bought stuff as well.

There are other "new age" stores in another town nearby, but, IMO, they cater to the "baby boomer" lost generation. (no offence to boomers out here, my mom is one of them, just an observation). All fluffy bunny crap nothing of substance. Which is why I am so grateful for Laiste reminding me of that "Casa Verde" existed.

HEY!! When are we going back?!! I am really getting sick of the three stores around me...one is more expensive than the other and they don't meet my needs!!

[gunner]

"Sorry I don't mean to advertise *hangs head in shame*"

i wouldn't call that "advertising" in the offensive and annoying sense, e.g. the magic bracelet guy, who came in and seagulled us. this is just passing on useful information between friends and not only acceptable but to be encouraged. no apology wanted or needed i think.