Just a Question

[Malcolm]

For all the Asatruar/heathens...


You ever think sometimes we fight cause our gods give us an excuse to? I know I'm a Lokean, and jotnar and all that crap....

I just sometimes wonder what exactly it means to be a "warrior" and I think its kind of stupid really.

There aren't very many folks I can't make see the stars from their backs. Honestly, I've never been to awful afraid of a scrap. I got knuckles...truth be told I've never lost one. Got scars sure, but never hit the ground.

You all push a lokean to the side, but I don't boast. I know better. I know about UPG. Trust me...I know about it.

Just sometimes...I...don't want this anymore. Is it okay to leave?

I'm asking because you all know more than me. I value you as my peers. You know the lore better than I. Don't kid yourselves though, I've read them as well. I just think in my state of mind I might have missed something.

[Hærfest Leah]

For all the Asatruar/heathens...

You ever think sometimes we fight cause our gods give us an excuse to? I know I'm a Lokean, and jotnar and all that crap....

Partialy on the excuse part, I think some fight because they want to or think they have to in order to get attention or fit some stereotype of being some big mean Heathen.

Others do only when they have to in order to set straight the idiots that may try to roam (note I said not run) among us.

And still others fight because they have convinced themselves that they always need to have the last word and/or are always correct & noone else knows jack and sould neber correct them this causign all sorts of fights.

I just sometimes wonder what exactly it means to be a "warrior" and I think its kind of stupid really.

We were just discussing warriors (well Maiden Warriors anyways) on the Troth list. There are many ways to look at being a warrior in our modern world but in essence I think a lot of the main basis is still off the original meaning. Not all Asatruars are warriors in that sense, not all have been in roles or jobs in their life where they've actually been to any type of battle/war/conflict. I don't feel it a stupid concept because I have been there plus I know there is more to it (see quote below). However, not all of our ancestors were warriors so why should our modern thought place more emphasis on it.

Speaking in terms of todays "physical" warrior, if your not in the military or other dangerous career (i.e. cop, fire fighter, bomb squad, medic etc) you can also take on the warrior role of being protector of yourself or family or others. Take it upon yourself to learn how to fight off others in the event you ever need to. But hopefully you'll never need to. Make an example of yourself to others by being of strong mind & body. Things that are physically demanding aren't the only ways to be a warrior in todays world but again I think the physical aspect (with the correlating mental conditions to go along) is what the warrior mentality was mostly about then and what todays view is based from.

In the non-physical aspect tho...Gundarsson says in Teutonic Religion, pg 71...

"By bravery is meant not only physical bravery – most of us do not have to engage in bodily combat very often – but the bravery which it takes to risk everything for what you know to be right; to face ugly truths, even about yourself, and to deal with them boldly; and to overcome the fears which everyone holds within. Every such act strengthens your soul; though no one but yourself knows of them, they are yet tir-fast – “glorious” – deeds. To wrestle with social pressure sometimes asks the strength of Beowulf wrestling Grendel; to battle with financial difficulties may call for the brave mood of Sigurdhr slaying Fáfnir. Be sure that these are deeds worthy of boasting at symbel, and never back down before another just because she/he may seem to be stronger or better placed."

You all push a lokean to the side, but I don't boast. I know better. I know about UPG. Trust me...I know about it.

Well that doesn't include me since I have never done that. I haven't even had much interactions with lokeans to be honest. I also have no problems with UPG, some are allergic to it, I am not although it all depends on the source in whether I'll believe it or not.

Just sometimes...I...don't want this anymore. Is it okay to leave?

You can do anything you choose, that's all up to you and you need permission from noone. It's worse to pretend to be something your not and that's being honorable & truthful in itself.

I'm asking because you all know more than me. I value you as my peers. You know the lore better than I. Don't kid yourselves though, I've read them as well. I just think in my state of mind I might have missed something.

Not sure what to say here really. As for kidding ones self...I know I'm not an authority and never claim to be. I'd like to be able to help you here. PM me if you'd like to chat more on this and I'll try.

[Malcolm]

For all the Asatruar/heathens...


You ever think sometimes we fight cause our gods give us an excuse to? I know I'm a Lokean, and jotnar and all that crap....

I just sometimes wonder what exactly it means to be a "warrior" and I think its kind of stupid really.

There aren't very many folks I can't make see the stars from their backs. Honestly, I've never been to awful afraid of a scrap. I got knuckles...truth be told I've never lost one. Got scars sure, but never hit the ground.

You all push a lokean to the side, but I don't boast. I know better. I know about UPG. Trust me...I know about it.

Just sometimes...I...don't want this anymore. Is it okay to leave?

I'm asking because you all know more than me. I value you as my peers. You know the lore better than I. Don't kid yourselves though, I've read them as well. I just think in my state of mind I might have missed something.


Wow. Drunken posting for the loss. I was reading through these forums again and stumbled across this. I don't even remember writing it. I must have been TOSSED. Man. this is just embarassing. :lol:

[Rick]

How the hell did I miss this?!?

I just got Gundarsson's Elves, Wights, & Trolls. I'm only in chapter 2, but my paradigms are rapidly shifting. If you (generic "you") are Heathen, READ THIS BOOK!

My paradigms have shifted regarding UPG, too. EVERYTHING is UPG, because everything that we know is based on what we observe/experience/etc. It becomes Tradition when a lot of people agree on it, and Lore after a lot of people agreed on it a very long time ago... :hehehehe:

[S_Wodening]

I will have to pick up Elves, Wights, & Trolls. I have been meaning to get a copy. If I may ask Rick, in what way is it shifting paradigms? Landwights have always played a role in my worship so I am really wondering what he has to say.

As to UPG, my view is yes, all lore was once UPG. However, the ancient Heathens grew up in a Heathen society that had known virtually nothing else for thousands of years. Their only contact was with other pagan cultures that were very similar to their own. We on the other hand have been raised in a largely Christian society which, no doubt, has skewed our view a bit. So while I am not willing to throw UPG out the window, I think I will always be wary of it, and rely mainly on ancient lore even if it was once UPG.

[Malcolm]

Elves, Wights, & Trolls

I almost ordered that today. Glad to hear its worth the read. I'll put it on the list.

[Hærfest Leah]

I just got Gundarsson's Elves, Wights, & Trolls. I'm only in chapter 2, but my paradigms are rapidly shifting. If you (generic "you") are Heathen, READ THIS BOOK!



I've had this book for a few months now and all I've read is perhaps the first 10 pages, school took over as usual. I have all next week off school between terms so I may read it then. I have 6 books for only 2 classes next term so I'm trying to give my brain a needed break on reading. <wow did I just say that>

[Rick]

I will have to pick up Elves, Wights, & Trolls. I have been meaning to get a copy. If I may ask Rick, in what way is it shifting paradigms? Landwights have always played a role in my worship so I am really wondering what he has to say.

As to UPG, my view is yes, all lore was once UPG. However, the ancient Heathens grew up in a Heathen society that had known virtually nothing else for thousands of years. Their only contact was with other pagan cultures that were very similar to their own. We on the other hand have been raised in a largely Christian society which, no doubt, has skewed our view a bit. So while I am not willing to throw UPG out the window, I think I will always be wary of it, and rely mainly on ancient lore even if it was once UPG.
Well, I started to say that it's adding flesh to the skeletons with which I was already familiar, but for me it's somewhat beyond that... more like giving the skeletons faces & personalities, if that makes any sense. Gundarsson weaves the similarities & differences & ties & connections between each of the 'tribes' of wights (here using that term as a sort of catch-all for many of the classifications of beings that fall somewhere between men & Gods) into a far more complete & complex tapestry than I have ever been able to cobble together for myself . Seems I have either a WOW or a DOH on each page... might just be me, I don't get out much... :hehehehe:

Hehehe... your comment on UPG reminds me of what I tell my IRL rune classes: the materials presented are my UPG, which is based upon nearly 40 years of study & research... :hahugh:

[S_Wodening]

Well, I ordered the book yesterday, and am looking forward to reading it. Wights have always interested me, but it can be difficult to draw connections between them. For example, the ettins and thurses are both giants, but one intermarries with the Gods, while the other is their enemy. It makes one wonder why that is.

[S_Wodening]

I got my copy of Elves, Wights, & Trolls in the mail Friday, and have read the first few chapters. Most of the information I already knew, but it has kind of rekindled my interest in the wights that was so active early in my Heathen life. A very good read I think that any Heathen needs to add to their library.