Everything is sacred (?)

[Sequoia]

in another thread, in another forum, Greenman and I had just a quick discussion, but I'd like to expand on it.

I think every place is sacred. Even places that you'd think were aweful, hideous, horrible, defiled. . . everything has sacredness, everyone, every place, every time. Even if there were horrible things going on in that place or time, each bit of life, and yes, each bit of death, would still be sacred to me.

I don't think sacred has to be some altar nobody touches, a pristine forest, or a virgin priestess. Even a nuclear dump, even a coal mine, even a parasitic city that is like a scar on the face of the earth. . . even these things that are so horrible. . . they all have their sacredness. They all exist. Each deserves reverence and respect, no matter how you feel about them, in my opinion. . . for example. . . even a burned out, bombed out, utterly dead city (like say NY after WW3 or something, use your imagination) . . . even if it was the darkest, most horrible place on earth. . . it deserves respect, and a kind of reverence for that. Even if it was a dark reverence, a fear, or even if you were just shocked and disgusted. . . in a way, it is sacred. It was not the place nessicarily that was dishonoured, but the people who destroyed it. . . just as a woman raped isn't the one who is dirty and disgraceful and a monster . . . the rapist is. Does that make sense? The woman is still sacred, isn't she?

any part of this universe, no matter what, is still sacred. . . isn't it?

[MistOfTheSea86]

Originally posted by Puma Hime
in another thread, in another forum, Greenman and I had just a quick discussion, but I'd like to expand on it.

I think every place is sacred. Even places that you'd think were aweful, hideous, horrible, defiled. . . everything has sacredness, everyone, every place, every time. Even if there were horrible things going on in that place or time, each bit of life, and yes, each bit of death, would still be sacred to me.

I don't think sacred has to be some altar nobody touches, a pristine forest, or a virgin priestess. Even a nuclear dump, even a coal mine, even a parasitic city that is like a scar on the face of the earth. . . even these things that are so horrible. . . they all have their sacredness. They all exist. Each deserves reverence and respect, no matter how you feel about them, in my opinion. . . for example. . . even a burned out, bombed out, utterly dead city (like say NY after WW3 or something, use your imagination) . . . even if it was the darkest, most horrible place on earth. . . it deserves respect, and a kind of reverence for that. Even if it was a dark reverence, a fear, or even if you were just shocked and disgusted. . . in a way, it is sacred. It was not the place nessicarily that was dishonoured, but the people who destroyed it. . . just as a woman raped isn't the one who is dirty and disgraceful and a monster . . . the rapist is. Does that make sense? The woman is still sacred, isn't she?

any part of this universe, no matter what, is still sacred. . . isn't it?

Every place is sacred and stays that way, no matter the circumstances, the only thing that makes it "evil" are the thoughts of others. Or at least that is what I think.

[Sequoia]

exactly! I think it's all how everyone percieves it. . . . but then, what is reality, except one person's view on it?

[MammaStar]

I couldn't vote. But I do agree with you both. Depends on the person's feelings on that particular item/person/place.

Like, for me I happen to think this little spot in the woods by my house is sacred. But, the stupid gas company who ripped my woods up, didn't!

[Theres]

as a Wiccan, i feel that there is balance in all things. this means that there is no light without dark, there is no positive without negative.
if everything is beautiful, then nothing is. how would we be able to discern beauty without knowing ugly? and how can we know what is sacred if we deny that which is profane?
it's very PC and 'new age' to claim that everything is beautiful. but is that honest?
and honesty is one of the most sacred things i can think of.

by the way, i didn't vote. there was no middle ground in the poll, so i couldn't find a category that felt like 'balance' to me.
a good thread though, and i'm interested to see what evrybody thinks.

[Sequoia]

well. . . . hey, I don't claim it. To me, in my world, there is beauty in everything - even if I don't always see it. There is balence in everything - even if it's not blatently obvious. Everything is sacred in it's own right, but not everything is GOOD. . . if that makes sense. I think something can be sacred, without being the same as "good" or "right."

[Myst]

I'm with you Greenman. I'd find it very difficult to welcome energies into my circle while standing in a dump (I can just visualize the little faeries with green faces trying not to breathe heh). Sacred means


Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha.
Made or declared holy: sacred bread and wine.
Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person: sacred to the memory of her sister; a private office sacred to the President.
Worthy of respect; venerable.
Of or relating to religious objects, rites, or practices.

so for me you make a place sacred for ritual or magic, or it is made sacred by previous visitors or energies (like the stones, or a faerie grove, or that it was used for rituals by others, even perhaps deity). It becomes set apart for worship of deity, or holy work, or it is used in conjunction with religious objects, rites, and practices.

You might say it's 'sacred' in that it is part of mother earth and thus 'worthy of respect; venerable', but to me that's different. I can imagine that a space where waste exists would have interesting vibrations and energies (from other people) that could be detrimental to one's focus of will and energy. It's not that the space is no longer "worthy of respect", but that humans have some how made the environment no longer conducive to magical work. So is it sacred? Sure. But is it sacred space for magical work?

[WandererInGray]

This was a tricky question, Puma! :D

And for me, it depends entirely on the definition of the word "sacred".

Because I agree with you that everything on the earth has its worth and value. But for me....the word sacred imparts a special quality....a quality that is not commonly found.

And because of that, I'd have to disagree that *everything* on the planet is sacred. I don't find a murderer or an atomic weapon or AIDS sacred. Yes, they have their place....but not that special quality that gives things their sacredness.

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Puma,
I feel that I have to agree with Myst, WandererInGray, and Greenman. Sacred to me means that certain things are set apart and made "special" from the everyday things. Not to say that the everyday things aren't beautiful or meaningful....but a space or an item that is "sacred" has a specfic purpose, and is intended to be used differently than that which is everyday.

[Phoenix Blue]

Mayhap, everything has the potential to be sacred. And nearly everything is sacred to someone. **Smiles** The refuse from our homes is perhaps sacred to the family of opossums who dine on the rubbish.

[Emy]

I believe that everything that is genuine is sacred... well, perhaps I should say that I don't think anything "artificial" is sacred... :)

[Dryad's Wyrd]

I do believe that everything is sacred. As much as we may not like the negitive things that happen to us, I believe that they have a purpose, that they are happening to make us stronger and better people. Now, you may think that I am naive but my life, just like everyone else's, has been no "bed of roses" (a little tribute to my grandma). Traumatic things happen to us, and we may never know why, but you can be sure that there was some purpose behind it. As for "evil," I don't believe in it. I believe that there is negativity, but not evil. Good and evil (I am not bashing Christianity here) tend to be words that Christians use and we all sort of adopted. Good and evil are all about perspective. You may see eating meat as good for you but the person next to you thinks that killing animals for meat is a sin. The same goes for the idea of the sacred. It is all perspective. When you study biology in depth, you learn that all species interconnected and essential for life in their environment. Sacredness (is that a word?) is the same to me. Everything is interconnected in the sacred web of life.
That is my rant.
Dryad

[Theres]

hmmmmm...
then is dioxin a part of the interconnectedness of life? is bigotry a part of the sacred circle?
just curious.

[Earthcup]

good question! I voted everything is sacred but here's my reason....

A cute puppy and a nuclear bomb are made from the same essential building blocks of the universe. I consider those building blocks to be sacred so by extension the bomb could be sacred. Everything is made of and belongs to the same energy, how can only a portion of that energy be sacred?

Whether I treat everything as sacred is another matter. Though it's made of the same stuff I am, the same stuff waterfalls and babies and perhaps even the Gods, I do not treat roadkill as sacred. I might mutter a quick prayer for the animals spirit but that's it.

So I guess I agree with PB. Everything has sacred potential but that doesn't mean I treat everything as sacred.

[Eeluna]

I have thought about this for a long time before replying. Everyone has valid points, but I'm voting for *everything is sacred*. I consider this Universe and everything in it as a part of Divinity. Therefore everything must be sacred. Whether we, as humans, can discern this sacredness is debatable. Even trying to think of the bad stuff as sacred is extremely difficult, and yet it must be sacred, at its innermost core, for it is a part of the Universe/Divinity.

Since we can't see the whole picture, we tend to divide things into sacred and profane, and it's probably easier (intellectually and spiritually) for most humans to do so. But how much better would this world be if we all acknowledged its inherent sacredness. Humans cause most of the problems on this planet. If we *knew* deep in our hearts and souls that everything was sacred, I think there would not be hatred, bigotry, pollution or any of the other ills we bring about because of our ignorance.

[Felidae]

Of course everything is sacred!

Just because something (or somebody) has no value to YOU does not mean that they have no value, purpose, or role to play on this plane.

Everything has a reason for existing, though that reason may not be apparent to you (or anybody else).

This would also include conditions (ie, your exampled post-apocalyptic New York). Perhaps their purpose is to teach a lesson to those with the ability to heed...

I myself hate bugs: insects, arachnids - doesn't matter, excepting the lowley Roly-Poly, a pretty Ladybug, maybe a moth or butterfly - I just don't like 'em! However, this doesn't give me and the rest of the bug-hating world the right to stamp "the unacceptables" out. They serve a purpose (though I strongly question wasps...). ;)

[Rick]

In my little world, po'k chop sandwiches are sacred... mmmmmmmm..... 'cuz it's a religious experience eatin' 'em...

[Earthcup]

*wipes the drool from her chin*

time to order some BBQ sandwiches to go....

Because value some things more than others doesn't mean spinach isn't sacred but I won't touch it. You might recoil at turnip greens while I gobble them up.

For instance the enviroment. My opinion is that it is sacred however I am more concerned with human survival than enviromental protection. The earth will take all we can dish out and come back stronger while we go extinct because we depleted our habitat. I consider it something sacred to be preserved but it's not my top priority.

It's all shades of grey and aqua.. and purple.... :D

[*~*Chary*~*]

a lot of things are but there are definetly somethings that arent

[Earthcup]

Isn't sacred and profane opposite ends of the spectrum?

Therefore without something being profane there's not much meaning to the word sacred is there?

*wondering out loud...*

[Theres]

exactly. there is no light without dark, and there is no sacred without profane. therefore, how can EVERYTHING be sacred?

one other point. if we don't concern ourselves with environmental protection, we won't be need to concern ourselves with human survival. we'll be long gone.

[Myst]

I agree, and there's a lot of gray between. :)

[Arzhela]

An argument for the "everything is sacred" idea I guess would be archetypes. You need to have the role of the destroyer or you can have no role of creator or healer. So, yes, there must be a dark to define light...but in its role the dark is as sacred as the light. "There is a time and place for everything" would be the way to describe it, I suppose. However, then it would become a little complicated: to have a sacred site you would have to have a defiled, negative site. The negative site is still sacred (still part of the cycle, still plays its role) but the sacred site is also sacred. The idea of site being sacred but also being sacred in its sacredness is where I think my archetype idea begins to sound not only a little winding but also silly and trashy. Oh well.

[Myst]

"You need to have the role of the destroyer or you can have no role of creator or healer. So, yes, there must be a dark to define light...but in its role the dark is as sacred as the light. "

Well. Dark is as important as light, but that doesn't mean it's sacred, unless you think sacred means "necessary". Even tho mustard gas can kill people and you can clearcut a forest and that's destructive and thus perhaps dark, you probably wouldn't call them sacred.

[Arzhela]

I'm not defining sacred as necessary, but rather as something playing its part. Perhaps I left stuff out of my post. Balance preserves the sacredness, goodness, and timliness of things.

Destroying our planet is obviously not good. It has, however, raised our consciousness about the environment. This consciousness was almost entirely absent in the Middle Ages and Renaissance (don't believe all of that picturesque pastoral hillside stream stuff--a lot of the water sources back then were worse off then than they are now...although there were less people then and more now so the net effect has been a bad one, even though we are taking better care of our environment now then we were then).

Right, back to sacredness. As I said before, balance preserves sacredness (I'm just about ready to drag down my dictionary and from the roots of the dratted word construct a special noun form. There OUGHT to be a word "sacridity" :) ). For instance, I'm sure that it used to be sacred for a family to go into the woods and cut a fir tree for their Christmas celebration. However, with the depletion of fir trees (and forests in general) it would not necessarily be sacred for someone to do it now. Or maybe something doesn't have to be GOOD to be sacred, though I'm not sure that I like that idea at all. I'd prefer going with the balance bit, I think.

[Arzhela]

Oops. I guess that means that only some things are sacred, then, doesn't it? The archetype of the thing is sacred, but the thing itself can be sacred or not depending on the situation in which it occurs.

[widukind]

I would say anything natural is sacred. My defiinition of 'natural' in this context is life, emotions, interhuman and human-animal relationships, creativity (expressed in arts, music, etc.) and any other natural occurence or cycle, both destructive and contructive. For instance, I do include rage as sacred. It's almost as pure an emotion as love and is certainly as powerful a motivator for your actions.
In the animal kingdom I limit my definition of sacred to conscious beings, though.

[Ganga]

I really had to think about this one. A good question. I feel that everything that is in connection with Goddes and God is sacred. Rage and anger can also be used in Their service. Or even this computer (a man-made thing) is sacred when used for writing about Them. But a sacred item (let's say athame) could be viewed as un-sacred if it is used for, well, killing all the members of your coven (what a grisly example, sorry!) Of course, another way to think about is that the athame is still sacred, but the ACTION of killing is evil.

This really is a good question. It set me thinking. Let's see what my good, old Gita has to say about this:

"The humble sage sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dogeater." (5.18)
So, for the sage, everything really is sacred, isn't it?

[Mnemosyne]

I totally have to agree with Greenman. I believe that the balance keeps everything in line. There is light/darkness, happiness/sadness...etc. Since there is the profane, I don't think that everything can be sacred. For those of you who believe that everything is sacred, perhaps you would find the writings an Jainism interesting. These writings suggest that you should not injure any living thing, since everything has a soul.

[Ganga]

Jainism in not alone in saying that everything (well everything that actually lives) has/is a soul. Life is the symptom of spirit, I think.

It doesn't mean I worship everything. More like I respect everything. Or at least I try.

[Mnemosyne]

Yeah, I'm sure that there are other philosophies that suggest that everything is special. I just mentioned Jainism, since it was the last thing that I read on the subject. Trying to be a decent, moral person, I try to respect everything too. Even though I give things respect, I do believe that everything in the world is not sacred.

[WandererInGray]

Originally posted by Ganga
"The humble sage sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dogeater." (5.18)
So, for the sage, everything really is sacred, isn't it?

*ponders*

I'd interpret that quote differently, Ganga...*smiles*.....all it says to me is that the sage sees with equal vision everything. It doesn't say whether what he sees he believes is all sacred.(unless further on it elaborates, *grins* I don't have my Gita at work with me)

Let's use something that doesn't muck us down in the good/evil discussion as an example. :)

I like my nailclippers...they're good, they're handy, they're helpful.

However, *shrugs*, I don't think they're sacred.

Same with my toothbrush, my hairbrush, my contacts, my shoes, my couch, etc.

Now....my Athame? My ritual candles (again, as opposed to just the pretty, nice-smelling candles I burn all the time), my engagement ring even. Those things are sacred to me.

To me, just because something isn't sacred, doesn't mean it's profane. It seems to me that's where things get confused. As I think Myst pointed out, there's quite a lot of gray in this...it's not all black or white, sacred or non-sacred.

By my reasoning (*grins* and partially to see if I can get the discussion going a little more)....Sacred=special. If everything is sacred, then nothing is really special, because there's no division between the sacred and the ordinary.

[Witchy Cowgirl]

Yes, Wander, I agree with you. I remember, before my Dad would baptize anyone he would always say, "And now, I set this water apart from a common to a sacred use."

[Ganga]

WandererInGray, I see your point. I suppose I started thinking that "if it's not sacred, it's profane" which is a very black-and-white way of seeing things. I don't like thinking of ordinary things as something disgusting (profane) - after all, disgust is just another side of attachment. One likes to be balanced (not excessively attached or disgusted) in life - ie. see things with an equal vision.

And just out of curiosity, WG, what is your connection to India? Were you born there? I can't help but think of you as a girl dancing Bharat Natyam, and your new avatar was quite a shock to me ;)

[WandererInGray]

*grins* I like the old one I had up there too, Ganga....but this other one is neat too, it's an Omanese woman. Fitted my mood after my fiancée had to go back to his job 1600 miles away from me. :(

I sent you a PM about the other stuff. :D

[AmbivalentMirage]

I definitely agree that sacred is "set apart" and that there cannot be light without darkness. Think of the athame or wand. They are symbols of balanced magick, as one edge/end symbolizes light and the other symbolizes dark. Just as you use blessings and healing spells, sometimes bindings and banishings are also necessary (although unfortunate).

:sunny:In Judaism, we were given the Torah because the Jews were called to be set apart unto their G-d and only their G-d. It did not and does not make them superior, better, or special, but it simply means that they are set apart in their own priesthood to their own connection to the Divine. The laws of kosher were instated NOT for health reasons, but as added means for separation. Jews were and still are commanded to be kind, respectful, friendly, and peaceful to gentiles, but to keep their lifestyle pure according to the law that took them from being a group of nomads to a civilization of devoutly spiritual people. :) If any part of that sounded arrogant, I sincerely apologize. I'm not trying to make Jews sound more special than other peoples, I'm simply using us as an example of what "set apart" is. Every culture has its regulations that make it "set apart" unto its own dieties and beliefs, and no regulation makes any group superior to another.


... I think the "jew" part of jewitch is really showing!! :lol:

[Blueowl]

That was too difficult for me to vote on without an explanation...I would have picked other...I feel that "sacred" is something an individual holds her/himself..no matter what the object, person , place is. Excellent question!!!!

[moonmorgan]

If you are interested in this topic, make sure to check out The Witches' Voice (http://www.witchvox.com) because they just did this topic for their January essays and have received LOTS of responses.

[Blueowl]

Thank you Moonmorgan...its been awhile sinceI had been to that site!