Non-pagans using the Tarot?

[StarEyedShelly]

Hello everyone!

I was just wondering: What do you all think about non-pagans using the Tarot? I know it probably doesn't happen all that much, but hypothetically. When I do a reading, I always start and close with a prayer to the Goddess. I need to feel the energy flowing through me before I can even start. But do you think that's necessary? Is belief in a higher power (and it could be any higher power, God, Allah, etc) essential for a proper reading?

What are your thoughts?

[The Panther's Dream]

Most of the tarot readers/psychics I've heard of/read about in my area aren't pagan, a lot are Christian. IMHO religion doesn't really have a lot to do with skill/ability to read or utilize the tarot in an effecient or accurate manner. :)

[Bethra]

Personally I don't class myself as Pagan and I have been reading Tarot for 20 years. I believe the insight comes from within me and my ability to tune in to the energies surounding the person I'm reading for. To me it has little to nothing to do with higher or divine belief.

[Merrilyn]

Personally I don't class myself as Pagan and I have been reading Tarot for 20 years. I believe the insight comes from within me and my ability to tune in to the energies surounding the person I'm reading for. To me it has little to nothing to do with higher or divine belief.

Much agreed.

[Starlight*Rains]

I was Christian when I started using Tarot. I definately agree that religion has no effect.

[saffydaff]

remember tarot began in the 1300s....when NOBODY was pagan ! (or they didnt dare admit it if they were ! ) Religion makes no difference to tarot.:viking:

[TheRiverDaughter]

Religion makes no difference to tarot.:viking:

Which is good! Since I'm not sure what religion I am, but I'm pretty sure I'm not all pagan <grins>

[SphinYote]

remember tarot began in the 1300s....when NOBODY was pagan ! (or they didnt dare admit it if they were ! ) Religion makes no difference to tarot.:viking:

1400s (actually, depends on what you define as a tarot deck...;))

Indeed. Tarot cards developed from italian playing cards and were originally just a card game (I've heard comparisons to poker, but I don't know if that's accurate or not...). The iconography was, and still is in many decks, particularly those that draw on the Marseilles and Waite traditions, predominantly christian allegory.

It wasn't until the eighteenth century that people began crafting its history and mythology, the sacred uses it has today.

I know that some people will debate that. And I grant that I'm standing by the historical line of using the written record, written documentation (it's possible there was an oral tradition or usage that remained undocumented for a long time, but I doubt it personally).

Personally, I like to give credit to more the idea of more recent creativity. Why everything has to be believed to be ancient before it's acceptable as a spiritual tool is beyond me...I don't mean incorporating references to ancient myth, Egyptian or otherwise, I think that's quite valuable, but why the object itself has to have that patina of ancient lineage...I don't know, I just get tired of it. Why the obligatory pedigree? ;) I suppose most religions and spiritual movements do that though.

[Phoenix Blue]

Personally I don't class myself as Pagan and I have been reading Tarot for 20 years. I believe the insight comes from within me and my ability to tune in to the energies surounding the person I'm reading for. To me it has little to nothing to do with higher or divine belief.
What Bethra said. :) Tarot's been around a lot longer than (neo)Paganism.

[Amethyst Rose]

My grandpa used tarot cards when my mom was just a kid, and afaik (he died when my mom was 12), he was Christian. Tarot definitely doesn't have anything to do with religion.... I do not, nor have I ever, related them (with prayer or other ritual) to the god/dess.

[Vigdisdotter]

What do you all think about non-pagans using the Tarot?

Why would it even be an issue? After all, the earliest known decks were HEAVILY influenced by Christian icons and ideals.

Maybe the Christians should be asking the question about pagans? :P

[Keldra]

Of all the Tarot readers I know, I am the only pagan...

Every other Tarot reader I've been acquainted with has been Christian, Jewish, atheist or agnostic. So I can't say that the idea of non-pagan Tarot readers has ever seemed odd to me at all -- I just don't associate Tarot with religion, and only very loosely with spirituality.

[blackroseivy]

The deck is, in fact, Xtian basically. It has traces of a pre-Xtian system, namely Platonism; Neoplatonism, developed in the Middle Ages, was brought about because of the pre-Xtian system. It heavily influenced thought in all 3 monotheistic religions. It is, therefore, both - but it was developed by Xtians for Xtians for a game with symbolic connotations.

[blackroseivy]

1400s (actually, depends on what you define as a tarot deck...;))

Indeed. Tarot cards developed from italian playing cards and were originally just a card game (I've heard comparisons to poker, but I don't know if that's accurate or not...). The iconography was, and still is in many decks, particularly those that draw on the Marseilles and Waite traditions, predominantly christian allegory.

It wasn't until the eighteenth century that people began crafting its history and mythology, the sacred uses it has today.

I know that some people will debate that. And I grant that I'm standing by the historical line of using the written record, written documentation (it's possible there was an oral tradition or usage that remained undocumented for a long time, but I doubt it personally).

Personally, I like to give credit to more the idea of more recent creativity. Why everything has to be believed to be ancient before it's acceptable as a spiritual tool is beyond me...I don't mean incorporating references to ancient myth, Egyptian or otherwise, I think that's quite valuable, but why the object itself has to have that patina of ancient lineage...I don't know, I just get tired of it. Why the obligatory pedigree? ;) I suppose most religions and spiritual movements do that though.

Yes - but read Robert Place's "The Tarot: History, Symbolism & Divination" - it SOOOOOOOO set me straight about everything in Tarot. He is absolutely to-the-letter as to the history; & there is something spiritual peeking through the cards, even in Tarrochi, that game! It is philosophy, which borders upon the spiritual in more ways than 1, that he sees in the cards. It's a fascinating book.

Anyway, just goes to show you that anyone can really use the cards - but they do belong firmly to the Western Mystery Tradition, too. Even if you play Tarrochi. ;)

[aniraangel]

Heh. Don't say tarot in my town *pokes church* the christians here loathe any form of divination. Not that I care. people called me a witch when I was ten and thought paganism was extinct.

I'm of the opinion that the cards contact your own enery, and thus have no effect on religion but rather the ability to hone your own and others energies. Of course, whatever works, go with it. :D

[Aidron]

The tarot, for me, is about talent and ability. Neither inherently relate to spiritual affiliations. Your morals, your gods, and your beliefs really can only empower the tarot, but are not the basic underlying principle which gives it substance.

[inkywitch]

Hello everyone!

I was just wondering: What do you all think about non-pagans using the Tarot? I know it probably doesn't happen all that much, but hypothetically. When I do a reading, I always start and close with a prayer to the Goddess. I need to feel the energy flowing through me before I can even start. But do you think that's necessary? Is belief in a higher power (and it could be any higher power, God, Allah, etc) essential for a proper reading?

What are your thoughts?

I don't really care who uses Tarot. I don't really see them as a strictly Pagan tool at all. I believe anyone who is open can use them.

I don't think Deity is necessary in divination, though it certainly couldn't hinder. And I don't think having a belief in a higher power is essential at all. But having a belief in psychic ability and some kind of belief that everything in connected I think is needed.

I think the power of divination comes from within, and the tools are the way to interpret the subconscious, or 'higher selfs' message/guidance. You can do that without belief or help for a deity.

[Dawa Lhamo]

lol. I'm Pagan, but I've never really connected my religion with my reading... If it has to do with the Divine, then it's the Divine Within... but really, I think it's more about being able to see patterns and analysis and interpretation... And honestly, I don't think there's much that's mystical about it. ^_^

Lol, and there *is* a lot of Hermetic and Christian-type symbolism in the Tarot... But I think that's because those are symbols which resound in our subconscious... because they're present in society, in Western culture. ^_^

No, I think that if connecting it with your religion helps you, then good. If it works, by all means, use it. But then it's an individual truth, rather than a Universal one. ^_^

[wolf]

Well, statistically, since there are a lot more Christians than Pagans, there are going to be a lot more Christian Readers than Pagan Readers.

I do believe that there is a connection with the divine/spirit (insert your own definition here) when readings are done.

[Shatril]

I have never thought of divination as a strictly pagan thing either. I also believe that when we read tarot, either consciously (as I do) or subconsciously we are connected to our source. I just don't think that tarot would be effective without our power to connect to source, as all we would then get would be random cards with no useful information obtained. Even the Jungian Psychologist that use tarot agree that we are tapping into some Source and that the cards drawn have meaning as they relate to a given situation.

[MysticMoggie]

Short answer - we live in a multi-faith society and it is just like me as a Christian having a copy of the Koran on my shelf and dipping into it occasionally for spiritual insight and guidance (which I do btw - I also use it more effectively than the Bible as an oracle, but please no-one tell Osama Bin Laden or Jerry Falwell about that!). No harm in cross-pollination!

Long answer - To me, mortal and immortal religion are different. I feel a very strong attachment to the Anglican Church, since I have been brought up to believe in God and in Jesus' example as a prophet and holy man. I went through a long period of searching for my "mortal" religion, dealing with issues of living in a multi-faith society and the exclusivity of some Christian sects; I even flirted with Judaism where the concept of the righteous Gentile allowed for plurality of religions; however of course that brought up the historical and cultural issues and it seemed like conversion to Judaism was out (and in the course of the quest I met the son of a prominent Jewish politician who had actually converted to Christianity as the "fulfilment" of Judaism...!!! - we met going opposite directions - the media had hyped his conversion up as being "anti-semitic" but neither his father nor he himself were annoyed because it was part and parcel of the bashing their particular party was getting at the time since it had just left government after 20 years in power). So I made my peace with moderate Christianity.

However there are issues directly linked to more spiritual and "divine inspiration" questions that I had, and my need to undertake a kind of pilgrimage and quest over the last few years to clarify insights that I was getting (ironically linked with said politician above: at that party both he and his son were in attendance and although we had never met before the father seemed to pick me out from the general crowd and make it his first priority to speak to me in particular...I had been given an invite to this party because others had noticed my peculiar "interest" in him - I was on the opposite side at the time - and this was the Holy Grail for me!) into politics that were definitely premonitions and clairvoyance but too loosely linked - at the time - to reality. Developing and using these talents - even recognising them for what they were - meant a complete break with everyone else I knew around me apart from a couple of people who I knew would understand what was going on - and I actually found that I was able to express tarot and other forms of divination as an adjunct to my faith, and conversely to explain my faith in terms of a higher power speaking through beings and experience which humanise and explain insights available.

Paganism and Christianity are two branches of how the Divine express a code for moral living (paganism being central to European and other northern/temperate cultures; Christianity, Judaism and Islam having developed within the cultural understanding of the Middle East); whilst tarot and divination belong to everyone as a means of distilling divine insight into a purer form for direct contact with the Divine. For me Spiritualism and Christianity are not even mutually exclusive: Spiritualism explains what happens when we die whereas Christianity and other forms of religion give me a moral/ethical basis on which to live my incarnate life.