King Minos Ring Declared Authentic

[Earthcup]

I'm double posting but I thought this might be of more interest here....

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...1&e=10&ncid=757

[Danustouch]

The link didn't work, Earthcup :(

[Theres]

nope, it's expired.
too bad too, because this got my curiousity up.

[Mnemosyne]

So what was the link about? Based on the subject title, it sounds interesting. Did the ring really belong to King Minos? I'm actually so intrigued, since any ring from King Minos would be so old and valuable. hmmm sounds like they have been digging around Crete. I don't know if I want to know if they find the minotaur from King Minos' labyrinth. :D

[Earthcup]

This link should work....

http://news.excite.com/article/id/94342%7Coddlyenough%7C04-05-2002::10:40%7Creuters.html

This gold ring was declared a fake when it was found in the 20's but a priest held on to it anyway. Recently experts have discovered it is 3,500 years old.

Legend has it that the ring was hurled into the sea by Minos himself.

[Mnemosyne]

Hooray, this link works. :) Thanks so much for posting this information. I'll have to tell my students about this finding. Of all the information that I have taught this year, my students find King Minos to be the most fascinating. I guess that you just have to tell kids about a king who had a really cool palace and fabulous jewelry, and they listen.

[Theres]

and a Minotaur!

[Mnemosyne]

lol. Yes, a minotaur. The Minotaur gets people interested in learning about King Minos myths. I have this children's book for mythology. Perseus and the Minotaur are on the cover. When students saw the Minotaur, they had to open the book and start reading about the myths. Hey, whatever it takes to get kids to open a book! :D

[Theres]

i made tapes of a friend's collection of myths called 'Heroes, Gods and Monsters of the Greek Myths'. they were on LP, a boxed set from the early sixties.
each different myth was read by either Julie Harris ('The Haunting") or... damn, i can't remember the guys name. great reading voice though. (you know... that famous guy!)
they range from about 2-3 minutes each, to about twenty minutes.
a good collection. i can't remember the publisher, and don't know if it's still in print.

[Mnemosyne]

The tapes sound fabulous. I myself have never heard myths told on tape. Hopefully, you can still find tapes on mythology, since so many people are audio learners. Sorry but I have no idea whom the famous guy may be. You have left me wanting to know though. Is he known for his readings or mythology. The guy who comes to mind for teaching about myths is Joseph Campbell.

[Theres]

Richard Kiley! that's who did the male voices.
and the scripts were by Bernard Evslin. my friend with the records informs me that they are available on CD, and she has seen them at Amazon.com.

[Calixto]

Well even if the ring is authentic Minoan, it would still be a stretch to say it was King Minos' ring.

The general idea nowadays is that Minos was likely a title assumed by the rulers of Knossos, something like "Pharaoh" or "Caesar."

But it is interesting that several sites seem to have Minoa in their name, even in Sicily (where Minos died in the legend). This is true even though "Minoan" is a name assigned by the archaeologist Evans. But these Minoas all have "Minoan" strata in them...

Makes one think, no?

[Earthcup]

Legend has it as Minos' ring, I didn't mean to imply it really was.. sorry for the confusion! :D

[Mnemosyne]

Of course, it is so unlikely that we could prove that the ring actually belonged to King Minos. However, the point is that it is so fascinating to find a ring from that period. Calixto, I had no idea that people now think that "Minoa" was a title like "pharaoh" or "caesar." Wait, did the people on Crete use Linear A? I recall that the language has not been translated yet.

[Calixto]

It is one theory for the name.

But Linear A is not translated yet. Just as the Linear B tablets reveal the ruler of the Mycenean palaces were called Wanax (Just like Agamemnon in the Iliad), it is possible that the Linear A tablets when (and if) translated might show the title of the ruler of the Palaces of Crete.

[Mnemosyne]

I am positive that we will learn more about the Minoans when Linear A is translated. Is it closely related to Linear B? I remember learning in Greek history class that Michael Ventris was able to decipher Linear B. From what I remember, he was a young, brilliant man. But unfortunately, he died so tragically young in a car accident. Hopefully, there are some good classicists working on the deciphering of Linear A.

Was Agaemmenon called "Wanax" in the Iliad? I used to do a lot of studies on that epic, but I don't remember him being called that. Oh silly me! :D

[Calixto]

Yep, though most versions show Anax, since the W (Digamma) fell out of use by the Classical period.

In the Classical period, Anax/Wanax was reserved for deities.

Basileus (Guasileus in Linear B) was originally something like a foreman, then a minor king (such as Akhilleus or Odysseus), then just king (Classical era). In the Byzantine period, Basileus became used for Imperator.

Ilios/Ilium was originally Wilios in Homer too.

My suspicion is, Linear A is likely warehouse documents like Linear B, but even so, can reveal a lot of information. (No one had any idea that Mycenean society was so bureaucratic and centralized, going on Homer, they thought they were similar to say the Vikings or Celts. Instead it seems they were bureaucrats with a strong swashbuckling aspect. :) Probably this came from Minoan influence, as they seem to have been also very centralized.

The problem with Linear A, is that Linear B quickly displayed the Indo-European word endings that allowed them to translate. Linear A, when they apply the values to known symbols from Linear B comes out non-Indo-European. Additionally there are far fewer tablets to work from. With Linear B it was easy to try to figure out the Greek. But this language is difficult.

I read some work by Chadwick (who helped Ventris out) on Linear A. There seem to be some similarities to both Eteo-Cretan (which could be the Minoans in the Classical Era, as they are non-Greek natives of Crete, like the Pelasgians of Hellas itself) as well as some incriptions from Cyprus (where both Minoans and Myceneans fled to during the Dark Ages). But still not enough to work with. The most promising idea is that Minoan is related to Carian (a language of Anatolia), something several classical writers said of the Minoans and the Eteo-Cretans.

[Mnemosyne]

Yes, now, I remember about the digamma. In Greek class, I never found listening about digammas interesting, so I just didn't listen. I like how you compared the Myceneans to the Vikings and the Celts. From what I know, the Mycenaeans were quite belligerent people. In fact, they measured their wealth based on how many weapons that they owned. These folks also borrowed from the Minoan culture though. Does anyone know if the Minoans were warlike people? I just think of them as being peaceful. But then again, that Minotaur myth does dissuade me a tad.

Thanks for explaining why Linear A is so difficult to translate. By the way, what is Eteo-Cretan? I have never heard of that language before.