Agnostic Pagans

[Glory]

Is there anybody out there? (Good question...)

[Merrilyn]

Yep. There a few, or more.. of us here.

[maverick9750]

I was one :) just keep an open mind, and open eyes, there is a god out there for you somewhere, I personally believe that for every character aspect that people have, there are gods out there that posses it, but trying to find the one for you is like trying to find a BF/GF, it takes time.

[equinox2]

Yep! A lot of us!:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Just check out the whole category above, the "Pantheism" section in Paths. Many there are agnostic or, like me, have an outright naturalistic worldview (no supernatural). Enjoy-

[Glory]

Okay, cool. Thanks all of you. :D

[ravenscape]

I second equinox2. It's been a real treat to discuss topics of interest with other not-so-theist pagans. My only kibbitz is that the Pantheist Path subforum could be a little more busy. :)

[Oddzilla]

*waves*
I consider myself under this banner. Title. Label. Whatever.

[Glory]

Whatever it is, it's confusing! :cheers:

[Hamelyn]

I've recently come to grips with being an agnostic. I was Christian as a child. Then I progressed down a long neo-pagan path. Recently, as the result of a major change in lifestyle, I've seen much of my life turned upside-down. This isn't an exception.

I don't know what I think about the divine. That puts me way outside my comfort zone; I was raised to be very spiritual. But instead of being a mere extension of something greater, I'm learning how to be an essential part of something greater, and that in a way makes it all worth it. I just have to keep telling myself that, telling other people that so I believe it, and so forth. It's hard not to panic sometimes when everything gets turned around!

But yes, I'm an eclectic agnostic mystic. I hate all the labels, but that's the ones that mostly apply to me. :P

[rainqueen]

Agnostic pagan would pretty much be how I'd currently describe myself. I tend to think there's... something out there, but any thoughts I have on what are more like ideas than beliefs.

[Glory]

Agnostic pagan would pretty much be how I'd currently describe myself. I tend to think there's... something out there, but any thoughts I have on what are more like ideas than beliefs.

I find that to be my dilemma also. I latch onto these ideas and theories but the actual application of belief is where I fall down.

[wolf]

If you're actually agnostic, why bother? (this is actually a serious question)

[gwendar]

Agnostic pagan.
This might be me, I'm not positive.
I might be more of an atheist. Or non-theist. Or ... I don't quite know yet.

To wolf:
I can't speak for anyone else, but my thinking on it is something like, the actual belief in god(s) is not important, but there is value in pagan myth and symbolism that can help with personal development.
I think....
As I said, I'm still unsure, and I don't fully embrace any label for my spiritual views at the moment.

:)

[faceperson]

wolf
A general concept in agnosticism is pragmatism; if it ain't broke, your view is likely consistent with reality. This allows the agnostic the freedom from pure subjectivism [a world where beliefs are truth, and that A and not A are both equally true] and from staunch materialism [there is nothing that cannot be stamped, organized, filed, classified and known outside the traditional scientific method]. Some may be more comfortable leaning towards either, a few wonderous souls like to think both when convenient, some believe both for their own reasons. A pragmatist can be forward progressive instead of trying to synthesize facts with dogma. This can lead towards strange theories and seemingly contradictory world-views, so a measure of wisdom is required to stay honest, as with all things. Agnosticism can be a freeing experience, and it can melt into wishy-washy epistemological twilight lands. Individuals who deem themselves capable of self-sufficientcy spiritually and philosophically are naturally attracted to the position, or those who feel the need to create synthesis between ideologies for the sake of internal or external peace also may find solace in this paradigm. But as with anything, there are a thousand reasons why a thousand people do any one thing in particular. Just think critically and hold onto your wallet and morals.

[Glory]

And my answer to wolf...

Paganism for me is not the worship of gods. I separate it from religious practice. If that was so, I truly don't believe there would be such a plethora of gods to 'pick' from (or be picked by, however you see it).

As an agnostic, I recognise their might be a power out there, and personally, I think there likely is. I don't know what it is, I don't know what to call it. This is what makes me agnostic. But just because I can't give what that 'power' is a name, an identity, or even a definition, doesn't mean I can't be pagan.

And even if I do one day find myself believing in some form of divinity... I won't be a pagan because of that divinity. I'll be a pagan because it's who I am. That's why I bother. :)

[ravenscape]

If you're actually agnostic, why bother? (this is actually a serious question)
The short answer is that spirituality =/= theism.

Though I don't feel a connection of any sort with a monolithic Divine or Divines, I do feel a great deal of connection with what is around me that I can perceive. I want to celebrate that connection. It feels sacred and precious to me.

So, I bother.

[maverick9750]

I was an agnostic for my 1st 30 years, I knew that there was more to the universe than "pure science" explained. I would talk to spirits and play magick constantly as a child, but I never actually recieved anything convincing concerning divinity. I was utterly facinated by the concept, but I just couldn't bring myself to believe that the monotheistic paradigm was true, and polytheism was just ludacris. (lol, societal conditioning) I went to catholic high school, and constantly debated with the jusuit who taught my religion class, often to a standstill. it wasn't untill I heard about wicca a little over a year ago that it had even occured to me that polytheism was possible. and for the longest time (and still a little bit) I haven't quite been convinced that I am dealing with gods instead of just rather powerful spirits (where is that line actually drawn?) I didn't stay a wiccan long, I'm now exceedingly ecclectic.

my point is everything comes in its own time, some people may never be called to a god(des), they may not need one, and those will never truely believe, because they won't experience it. and once you are called, its not "belief" or faith, but an actually a personal knowing. i feel if faith is nessecary, you are talking to the wrong god.

[cheddarsox]

I wasn't sure if I should respond because I don't consider myself an agnostic, I am an Ardent Pantheist. I practice a faith...but a faith that up front states that as humans, we can never fully know the totality of the truth. It accepts that a part of the whole, can't understand the whole of the whole. It's a perspective issue, we just can't see it.

But there are things I can and do know, and I practice that. That's what and why I bother. The practice of my faith enhances my life, and the lives of those around me. There is no deity that desires, needs or demands my practice. It is my personal response to my faith.

And my practice deepens my understanding...like using a newly learned language helps one better understand the language and the people who speak it.

[kismet]

I'm constantly changing my mind. Hence, my siggy.

[Stormbeard]

I don't trust anybody who believes 100% in anything.

[Glory]

Okay lately agnosticism has been confusing. I'm over it now. Someone give me a god kthx.

Yeah I'm kidding. But has anyone ever wished that you could just find something to believe in? Although I'm with Stormbeard in that pure belief is a little scary to me, because I run on the need to question everything.

[Windsmith]

Okay lately agnosticism has been confusing. I'm over it now. Someone give me a god kthx.

Yeah I'm kidding. But has anyone ever wished that you could just find something to believe in?Oh, completely. The need to believe in something greater than self - that we are an intrinsic part of something beyond ourselves - is a deep-seated emotional and psychological need in humans. Our brains may even be hard-wired for it. That need was why I decided I was an atheist one day and went out and introduced myself to my college chaplain the next. It's why I jumped from Christianity to Paganism without considering that all I was really doing was tossing out the one God I didn't believe in and substituting an infinite number of gods I didn't believe in. And it is, ultimately, why pantheism works so well for me: I get the celebratory and community aspects of religion; I get spiritual nourishment and focus; and all I have to believe in is the Universe - a being whose existence I cannot deny (even if it does turn out to be just a hologram).

[Glory]

Oh, completely. The need to believe in something greater than self - that we are an intrinsic part of something beyond ourselves - is a deep-seated emotional and psychological need in humans. Our brains may even be hard-wired for it. That need was why I decided I was an atheist one day and went out and introduced myself to my college chaplain the next. It's why I jumped from Christianity to Paganism without considering that all I was really doing was tossing out the one God I didn't believe in and substituting an infinite number of gods I didn't believe in. And it is, ultimately, why pantheism works so well for me: I get the celebratory and community aspects of religion; I get spiritual nourishment and focus; and all I have to believe in is the Universe - a being whose existence I cannot deny (even if it does turn out to be just a hologram).

It's why pantheism calls to me also, because I can see what I'm believing in. Of course on the flipside, I occasionally get hit with pessimism and just see it all like it's random, dead and pointless but hey...

[Merrilyn]

Thanks for starting this thread, Glory.
There aren't many agnostic pagans around here, as compared to some of the more popular paths, so it's a refreshing and personally interesting discussion.

Just wanted to say. :)

[Glory]

Thanks for starting this thread, Glory.
There aren't many agnostic pagans around here, as compared to some of the more popular paths, so it's a refreshing and personally interesting discussion.

Just wanted to say. :)

Thanks Merrilyn, I'm glad you could benefit from it. :) Like it was said earlier, the Pantheism subforum is pretty good for reading about non-theist or uncertain paths, but for me personally it's nice to know I'm not the only agnostic pagan out there (which, granted, would have been unlikely, but it can still feel that way).

[equinox2]

Glory wrote:
It's why pantheism calls to me also, because I can see what I'm believing in. Of course on the flipside, I occasionally get hit with pessimism and just see it all like it's random, dead and pointless but hey...

You never have to have that problem again, if you like. After realizing what a powerful meaning and purpose a Naturalistic worldview (like Pantheism) gives to life, that has never been an issue. A couple books come to mind:

Nonzero, by Robert Wright

View from the Center of the Universe by Joel R. Primack and Nancy Ellen Abrams

In my own words ( a short clip from an essay I wrote last month) :

Understanding evolutionary history has shown me that all life on earth is my family, bonded to me through billions of parental links of love. This gives my life incredible meaning and purpose. Through fits and starts, evolution has crafted the universe in ever more wonderful ways and it will probably lead to a just and sustainable world. It could happen after centuries of environmental disasters, bloody wars, and untold suffering, or it could happen sooner, through our efforts to build a loving, rational culture focused on this world. It’s up to us to choose when we’ll get there. We stand at the dawn of a new age, the first time we know of when the universe became able to reason and plan. My family, your family including all life on earth will live with the consequences tomorrow of the decisions we make today. Seeing my kids, or any kids, reminds me of that. What could be a greater purpose, and a greater reason to take control of one’s life? What could possibly be a stronger moral basis for ethical behavior - a clearer reason to love my neighbor as myself?


Love & Light-

[Glory]

Thanks for the recs, equinox2 - naturalistic paganism is something I'd love to explore, I'll definitely check out those books, as well as the links in your siggy.

[Whillow95]

I just recently answered a question on Yahoo Answers that really made me start questioning my beliefs. I have felt close to the Celtic pantheon but, I've never really 'connected' to any of the goddesses or gods. With the things I have experienced in this life I need to believe that there is something out there. I'm just not really sure what that is.
I believe that the 'original' god/dess has been around since the begining. They have taken on different forms and many different names to 'go with the times'. I'm not sure anybody ever got it right, or will.
I still worship and pray, I just don't presume to use names. Glorious Goddess and Gracious God work for me.:shift: :shift: :shift: :shift: