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Theres
April 9th, 2002, 03:32 PM
Julian II was Emperor of Rome from 360-363 CE.
he is perhaps most well known for trying to bring Paganism back to Rome after his father Constantine the Great had made Christianity the official religion of Rome in an edict dated 313.
Julian was born in Constantinople, the Eastern capitol in 332. as a young man he was imprisoned by his uncle Constantius II at the time of Gallus' execution in 354. however, he regained Imperial favor by marrying Constantius' sister Helen in 355. this was a good career move, as Julian was named Caesar later that year.
however, while serving as Governor of Spain Constantius ordered him to provide troops and supplies for the Emperor's war against the Persians in the East. Julian refused, was proclaimed Emperor by his own troops, and a rebellion ensued. when Constantius died in Cilicia on route to meet him in battle, Julian became Augustus and the unchallenged Emperor of both the Eastern and Western Empires (360).
now Constantius was a Christian, and in 357 he had ordered the Pagan altar and the statue of the Goddess Nike removed from the Senate in Rome. but Julian, who favored the old Pagan ways, had never embraced the new religion, and one of his first deeds upon becoming Emperor was to have these artifacts restored.
unfortunately, his reign was not long lived. he died in battle against the Persians in 363.
but the altar and Nike statue remained in the Senate until they were again removed by Gratian in 382. there was a Pagan insurrection ten years later, when they were brought back once again, only to be removed for good in 394. the Roman Empire became The Holy Roman Empire, which evolved into the Byzantine Empire shortly after the sack of Rome by Barbarians in the following century.
Julian was a prolific writer, earning him the title 'Julian the Philosopher'. much of his writings are still extant. however, due to his Pagan beliefs, history now knows him better by the title 'Julian the Apostate'.

so all of this got me to thinking about how completely different the world we now live in would be if Julian had ruled for, say, twenty years instead of three. would the 'old ways' have regained a stronger foothold? would Paganism be more accepted now?
Christianity was already well on its way to becoming a popular religion by then, but would it have become the dominant religion of the western world?
much of our modern world was formed by the influence of the Roman Empire. but i'm wondering how you guys think things might differ today if Julian hadn't been killed in 363?

Earthcup
April 9th, 2002, 06:49 PM
Christianity would still be a major power but I think a few versions of Paganism would have survived. Maybe they would have been monotheistic or henotheistic but I think something would have survived.

In Rome I think that true polytheism would have continued in rural areas but the cities would have mostly monotheistic cults as a result of Christianity's influence.

I think it would have had the biggest effect on the Celtic and Norse peoples. Christianity's spread might have been a little slower and might have been more tollerant due to Rome's multi-faith influence.

It would also have a huge impact on American religons and cultures. In North America there would still be colonisation with all it's "problems" but I think the culture would have been embraced and merged into a NA/European religon and culture.

In South America I think the religous systems would have changed a little in response to the newcomers but the temples would still be in use today and the culture would have survived for the most part.

It's affect on art and literature I can't even begin to imagine!

Theres
April 10th, 2002, 04:27 PM
i think the areas of art and literature would probably have changed the most.
religion does inspire creative variations. and one of the reasons the 'Dark Ages' are called that is because very little art and literature came out of this time. if you had time to paint or sculpt or write (provided you could write), then you were taking to much time and energy away from your devotions.
thank the Gods for the Renaissance!

Theres
October 8th, 2003, 02:47 AM
*bump*

TYRRHENUS
October 8th, 2003, 05:19 AM
First Greenman, I am impressed with your knowledge of Roman history. I'm suprised I haven't seen you at Nova Roma or Societas Via Romana.
Julian II has been deemed a God by Roman Recons. (We have no problem doing this as in the Religio Romana - the official state religion, the Senate had the power to make Gods by decree.)
Anyway, even if Julian had succeeded, or if this Semitic religion we call Christianity was nipped in the bud by say, killing Constantine, this would not have changed the fact that an iceberg, rock, piece of metal, whatever hit the Earth in 435 CE. It was this 'rock' which covered the world in darkness for two years. All of humanity was shifted. It set in motion a four hundred year period known as the Dark Ages (when literature and learning were the last things on our minds). The Dark Ages set in motion another 400 year period known as the Middle Ages (When we first started to pick ourselves out of the darkness.).
So I think three things on this matter:
1) We are 800 years behind in evolution because of this 'rock.'
2) It wasn't Christianity that set us back.
3) It sounds strange but, I think Rome could have survived the collision if it had previously enforced some sort of language policy. It was much to easy for the different peoples of the Empire to disintegrate. Like an archaic Yugoslavia.

www.juliansociety.org/

mol
October 10th, 2003, 09:22 AM
i think the areas of art and literature would probably have changed the most.
religion does inspire creative variations. and one of the reasons the 'Dark Ages' are called that is because very little art and literature came out of this time. if you had time to paint or sculpt or write (provided you could write), then you were taking to much time and energy away from your devotions.
thank the Gods for the Renaissance!
Well, there were also restrictions on WHAT you could paint in sculpt due to the Church control. This was the biggest hindrance on the arts.

Theres
September 6th, 2004, 05:02 PM
*Bump*

Pol
September 6th, 2004, 05:06 PM
I think that, had Rome not become Christian, it would not have spread as far or quickly, if at all. I often muse at the fact that I follow a religion because Rome told my ancestors to do so. Ah, irony.