What constitutes the mysteries?

[David19]

I wasn't sure where to put this, 'cause it's partly about Wicca but also a general question about the Mysteries (so if you think this should be somewhere else, please feel free to move it).

But, there's a lot of talk about Wicca and the Mysteries, and it being a mystery religion, but what does this mean?, like what makes a religion a mystery religion.

For example, Christianity was originally a mystery religion that you needed to be initiated into, but would you consider modern Christianity still a mystery religion?, if yes or no, then why or why not - what is missing from most modern forms of Christianity that early Christianity had.

I've read that some things that made a religion, a mystery religion was that they experienced and knew rather than believed e.g. they experienced directly the supernatural, and deities, and knew they existed rather then belief in them.

Today, I got 'The Ancient Mysteries - A Sourcebook' by Marvin W. Meyer from the library, and in it, he says:


The mysteries were secret religious groups composed of individuals who decided, through personal choice, to be initiated into the profound realities of one deity or another. Unlike official religions, in which a person was expected to show outward, public allegiance to the local gods of the polis or the state, the mysteries emphasized an inwardness and privacy of worship within closed groups. The person who chose to be initiated joined an association of people united in their quest for personal salvation

Again, I've also heard this before that the mysteries looked at the myths and the god or gods in the myths at a more deeper level, that neither was more "true" than the others (e.g. one person could view a myth such as the abduction of Persephonie as being what happened (i.e. she got taken to Hades, by Hades), while another will look at it in a deeper way, neither being more "truer" than the other (although some people seem to think only the deeper level is "true" and only the "masses" take them at face value, which, IMO, is just elitism).

But, what do you believe constitute the mysteries, what makes a religion, such as Wicca and others mystery religions (or what made Christianity a mystery religion, what is it lacking now, etc).

Anyway, I'd appreciate any help you could give me in understanding this.

Thanks.

[Ben Gruagach]

I hope this doesn't violate any rules here but this topic is exactly what my upcoming book is about. There is a lot of confusion about what Mysteries are, at least in a Wiccan context, and whether and exactly how something counts as being a mystery religion.

Meyer's book is a good one. Others that you might want to look for if you want to research the topic more are:

"The Mystery-Religions" by S. Angus (ISBN 0-486-23124-0)
"Mystery Religions in the Ancient World" by Joscelyn Godwin (ISBN 0-06-063140-6)

And from a modern ceremonial magick point of view I've found Nema's "The Way of Mystery" (ISBN 0-7387-0290-0) to be very helpful.

I think the key conclusion is that both Wicca and Christianity have factions within them which do count most definitely as mystery religions. They have teachings which they reserve only for their initiates, they focus on ecstatic practices with the goal of becoming closer to the Divine, and they focus on specific mythologies with an emphasis on connecting that myth to the initiates' lives and the world in general.

There are also definitely factions within both Wicca and Christianity which do not fit the mystery religion definition. (And personally, I'm not convinced that working a mystery religion spiritual path necessarily means being a formal member of an established group. Solitary mystics certainly abound, and if the only difference is whether they are a member of a formal group it seems to be rather petty to say they are therefore not really working a mystery religion.)

[Eran]

David,

The "Mysteries" are about having a personal experience having to do with contact with the Gods, and realizations concerning the way the World works. The Mysteries are not "secret" - they are all around us. Therefore, anyone can experience these Truths whether being part of a Mystery Tradition or not. Particular Traditions each have their own methods of approaching and expressing these truths. That's what makes a Tradition - the specific rites and techniques that a particular group of people use to open doorways which allow others to have direct experience with the deep ground of being in which the Mysteries reside.

Wicca / Witchcraft is the remnant of one such ancient mode of expressing and approaching these truths. It's not the only way. There have been others, there will be others.

As for your question - What are the Mysteries? - that's difficult to answer in words, because it is an experiential thing. Poetry can come close to expressing it, and so can music. It's hard to express in a forum such as this, for a variety of reasons - politics and the desire to ridicule and disprove are among those those reasons.

In brief, though, one way to express it is that you are divine, you are related (geneticaly) to Divinity. Your own life, forever, is assured. Death is but a transition. The Gods are real, and are in you and around you. All is One.

That's just words, though. The essence of an initiatory Mystery Tradition is to give you direct experience of this reality. It's about certainty, not belief. It's about what's in you, not about what you think or see or about what anyone else wants to convince you of. It most certainly is not about published books, and it is not something you can learn by trying to break into the secret rites of someone else - which is something many people do try.

I wish you luck. I hope you can get your questions answered.

[David19]

Thanks to both of you, I think I understand it a bit more, basically, the mysteries comprise certainity (that the god/gods you worship are real, etc).

I've also read that initiates of the Eleusinian mysteries came away with a more positive view of death (and probably amongst other things), and a confirmed view that they would receive a special spot in Hades.

And, thanks for those book recommendations, I'll try and get those books, as I'd like to learn more about this (but then I also realize that no matter how many books you read, the mysteries probably can never be understood in words and have to be experienced or felt to be truly understood, like right now, I'm drinking a chocolate milkshake, I could describe how it tastes to you, but you'd need to drink it (experience it) yourself to really know what it's liked (not sure if that's a good analogy, BTW)).

Anyway, again, thanks to both you, I really appreciate both of your help.

[Ben Gruagach]

I like how Eran described the Mysteries. Very accurate and completely in accord with everything I've experienced myself and learned through research of various mystery religions.

Another book I forgot to mention which is good for focussing on Wiccan mysteries is "Witchcraft: A Mystery Tradition" by Raven Grimassi. If you have questions specifically about this book I'm sure Raven would be happy to oblige in his own section in the Authors area (http://www.mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=66) here at MysticWicks. (I provided a link directly to Raven's section.)

Edited to add: here's a link to a thread in Raven's section specifically for Raven's mystery religion book (http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=137934).

[Dawa Lhamo]

I agree with Eran... very well put!

The Mysteries are fundamentally experiential. Someone cannot tell you them, they cannot write them (in a book)... the most someone else can do is lead you to the edge of them. They are entirely personal, voluntary... it is an *experience* of the sacred... often they deal with the nature of divinity/Divine, the nature of the world... the really big questions...

You might be able to read about Mystery traditions, or even read their own sacred texts, but the whole idea of a Mystery *tradition* is to create a certain environment in which someone can experience the Mystery. And only through that *experience* can someone truly grok the Mystery.

"Grok" is a good word here, I think. It's more than just understanding. ^_^

In addition, myths play an important role in the Mysteries. Sometimes they seem just straightforward stories, but I think, on a fundamental level, myth is really a way of approaching a Mystery.

[~Belladonna~]

I agree with Eran! The Mysteries are not "secret" at all and any one of us can experience them (not just initiates). All you have to do is open your heart and Soul and look to your higher self. It's about knowing, feeling, experiencing the Divine and truly knowing why (not just in this world either) - when the Mysteries finally click with you it is kind of like you've been let into a big secret and now you're apart of it (maybe that's why they call it "secret")? You can't explain in words or find the Mysteries in books or on the net, it's something you have to experience and find out for yourself. I honestly think we cannot move closer to Enlightenment unless we have experienced the Mysteries, but it's all pretty straight forward, not something that only the "chosen ones" can experience or anything like that. They are there for us ALL to experience!

[~Belladonna~]

Oppps, how old is the thread lol. Sorry for bumping it up.

[Dawa Lhamo]

lol, it's not old, don't worry. ;) It was just posted yesterday. ^_^

[~Belladonna~]

Oh Gods, it's official, I'm going crazy lol. DOH!

[Dawa Lhamo]

Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most. :lol:

[~Belladonna~]

8O :lol: 8O

[Sesen]

Some people believe that all religions started out as mystery religions, but the knowledge was lost or hidden over time since the closing of the mystery schools. Not in a direct sense, like some conspiracy, but because most people only took the myths at face value and there was no longer a place for initiates of the mysteries to teach new disciples. In this sense religious mythology contains deeper wisdom for those that look past the story to what it might mean on an esoteric level. I'll give an example from my own studies, though this is opinion and not fact, I'm not an historian.

In ancient Egypt the city of Alexandria was a hot bed for philosophical and religious thought where people from all religions came to study. Hermetism was born from this culture as a mixture of the mysteries from several different religions. Mostly those of Egypt and Greece. Once certain religions came under the control of people with political and military motivations the famous library of this city was destroyed and much of its knowledge lost. As a result of this dangerous climate some Hermetists made there way to the Muslim city of Harran where Pagans were still welcome. Once the Muslims decided the Pagans had to either convert or die, the Hermetists found a loop hole in the Koran and took the Corpus Hermeticum as their holy scripture and Hermes Trismegistus (identified as Idris in Islam) as their prophet and said they were the Sabians mentioned in the Koran. Since no one really knew who the Sabians were they were left alone for the time being. Eventually their knowledge spread throughout Europe in the form of the alchemical writings with their heavy emphasis on symbology. Even a cursory examination of these texts will show how they easily coincided with the religion of the land they were written in. Which is a testament to the belief that the mysteries exist within all religions.

I started a thread in the theology and philosophy forum today that I believe fits in nicely with this discussion if anyone is interested in popping over there and sharing some of your thoughts on what certain religous stories might mean if studied as symbolic teachings.