Accepting Suffering

[SylverStar]

So I was watching "God and Buddha: A Dialogue" and I was listening to Deepak Chopra talk about suffering and the reason we suffer being that we do not understand reality.

It is intersting to me because, I have had a hard time thinking the world is suffering. That my cause for suffering is my own doing not what I did not understand...but what I created.

But now something just clicked and I see that it is through not understanding and not through anything I created myself. We all enter this world not really understanding...but we all have the capablility to understand and therefore escape suffering.

So now that I've had this little ephinany moment I feel that I am ready to take the next step.

Anyways...I really just wanted to share this with someone.

[Toby Stimpson]

Hmm it's an interesting thought, I'd add only the words of a Tibetan Rinpoche and say:

"Suffering isn't the pain you feel, by that point it's already too late. Suffering is the initial want, and the pain you receive after not getting what you want is the reaction."

For example, we want knowledge and enlightenment, the suffering is not getting what we expect from a teacher. In this case then our suffering coems from our own wants and expectations and perceptions... if we go past those and rise above them, we take things as they are and if we see things as they are fully, how can we suffer? We have all the info and reasons and we may find we just dont want anymore.

[Tanya]

this is an essential problem I have with Buddhism, i suuspect largely because i'm culturally a Westerner... It implies striving and wanting cause suffering....and to some degree I see that. You should learn to want less and be happy with what you have....
but...

hasn't striving and WANTing...led us to many of the things in the west we values...

ie. " I want my child to live and grow up strong"... therefore we STRIVE to invent medicines and vaccines to protect them.

"I want wars to end and the Earth to be a garden" ... therefore we strive for peace and environmental change

"I want to see my family again, even though I live in Australia and they live in America".. therefore we STRIVE to develop the technology for air travel.

It seems while striving can be the cause of much suffering.. not striving never really takes you anywhere at all.

This has always been a barrier for me in what I find is otherwise a very compelling philosophy... maybe someone can educate me on this.

[HetHert]

this is an essential problem I have with Buddhism, i suuspect largely because i'm culturally a Westerner... It implies striving and wanting cause suffering....and to some degree I see that. You should learn to want less and be happy with what you have....
but...

hasn't striving and WANTing...led us to many of the things in the west we values...

ie. " I want my child to live and grow up strong"... therefore we STRIVE to invent medicines and vaccines to protect them.

"I want wars to end and the Earth to be a garden" ... therefore we strive for peace and environmental change

"I want to see my family again, even though I live in Australia and they live in America".. therefore we STRIVE to develop the technology for air travel.

It seems while striving can be the cause of much suffering.. not striving never really takes you anywhere at all.

This has always been a barrier for me in what I find is otherwise a very compelling philosophy... maybe someone can educate me on this.

I'm studying Tibetan Buddhism and in doing so I have come to a basic understanding of the function of suffering. Having a Westerner's mind I too have had to grapple with the acts of striving and the state of suffering.

Striving leads to innovation...

Innovation can also be a double edged sword. While it eases our suffering to come up with new ways on one level, it may create suffering at another. IE energy from oil, coal or nuclear...while it provides ALOT of energy for people to consume it destroys our atmosphere. So our host suffers at the expense of our innovations.

Suffering is a state of mind that is indeed worthwhile in provoking the desire for change. Without it we would not strive to change our circumstances or ease our suffering. So I don't think that its the aim of Buddhism to inhilate suffering so much as teach that suffering is a facet of the mind and emotions that we do have control over. We don't have to get bogged beneath the suffering and we are capable of rising above it if we take the time to look at what is the root cause of our suffering. When we get to that stage and then take the opportunity to understand we have the tools to deal and cope with our suffering. Expectations are the greatest contributors to suffering but are not the sole providence of it. Decisions and outside contributions from those we share our life with or encounter in our day to day activities or even the person on the otherside of the planet who produced some device you use may contribute to your suffering...IMO 9/10s of the law is how you choose to deal with it. It is not that you should think that suffering is bad, because suffering has a function. It is the way that you use suffering that counts. It's all about the spin. The Dalai Lama teaches that its is all about how you perceive the opportunities presented to you. You can choose to take a negative or pessimists view or you can spin it around and search for the positive and find the optimistic POV.

Striving being like that of desire has its place within our being. Without it we would not move forward but it is when we let our desires rule over ourselves and we want or long so hard that it interferes with our happiness that we experience suffering. Suffering leads us to changes. So yes striving works on that level of becoming a catalyst for change. When we can change those circumstances that benefit ourselves and ease our suffering we feel like we have accomplished something and we have created a moment of happiness in our lives.

Without suffering would we experience joy and happiness?

The other part of suffering is that it is the one thing that all life shares in common. We all suffer...its how and what we learn of and from it that sculpts us into individuals and yet it is the tie that binds us all.


Just some random and not so random thoughts about suffering.

[Tanya]

I see what you are saying about suiffering being the root of compasion.

I think we are talking about 2 kinds of suffering.. that which circumstances inflict upon us, and that which we choose to take on in how we reflect on those circumstances.

I will think about this...some more..

obviously a possitive outlook on any setback ir more productive than a negitive one and less hurtful to the spirit in the long run (see my post on people you sleep with)...

I think I understand more now.

thank you.

[Cerulean_damselfly]

There's quite a few interesting writers and thinkers addressing the nature of suffering from different perspectives. The initial post had me curious to what D. Chopra might suggest as a positive solution if one accepted the initial view of human suffering as a given condition...in the context below, he suggests that the awareness of human suffering is a starting point for compassion.

http://www.chopra.com/124308.html


Tuesday: Feeling for Peace
This is the day to experience the emotions of peace. The emotions of peace are compassion, understanding, and love.
Compassion is the feeling of shared suffering. When you feel someone else’s suffering, there is the birth of understanding.
Understanding is the knowledge that suffering is shared by everyone. When you understand that you aren’t alone in your suffering, there is the birth of love.
When there is love there is the opportunity for peace....

Perhaps it might be helpful in addition to any other pieces of wisdom or awareness shared here.

Good to read so many thoughtful responses...

Cerulean_Damselfly

[SylverStar]

I have come to accept the nature of suffering...but had never accepted the shared suffering....until now. Which is a little strange because I see the interconnectedness of everyone, but for some reason felt absorbed in my own suffering.

I consider suffering to be transitory...not lasting...and not permanant. I do believe wanting and striving leads us to suffering because it means we are attached to something. Whereas I think enlightenment is being unattached...unwanting.

[Kalika]

So I was watching "God and Buddha: A Dialogue" and I was listening to Deepak Chopra talk about suffering and the reason we suffer being that we do not understand reality.

It is intersting to me because, I have had a hard time thinking the world is suffering. That my cause for suffering is my own doing not what I did not understand...but what I created.

But now something just clicked and I see that it is through not understanding and not through anything I created myself. We all enter this world not really understanding...but we all have the capablility to understand and therefore escape suffering.

So now that I've had this little ephinany moment I feel that I am ready to take the next step.

Anyways...I really just wanted to share this with someone.


:hahugh:

Don't you love that?

Thanks for sharing. :)

[Sentient_Annex]

To be unwilling to accept suffering, we would be attempting to fulfill ourselves on the most immediate level. To embrace suffering we are embracing our goals, ambitions & desires for the future.
To be able & willing to suffer we are enabling ourselves for greatness.

[Satyr]

I find it interesting while being called a "pessimistic religion" by a lot of people, some of the happiest people I've met are sincere Buddhists.

Buddhism is not just about suffering, it's more about what you are going to do about it.

As Ajahn Brahmavamso, a Buddhist monk living in Austrailia said : "Joy at last to know there is no happiness in the world".