This makes me sick...

[shnen]

This just makes me sick to my stomach... just thought I' pass this along as a warning....

A police investigation is under way to determine whether there's a connection between a man found in a washroom at Don Mills Middle School and a suspect who attacked a 7-year-old girl at an elementary school in Toronto's east end last month.

Police are releasing few details of the probe into Wednesday's incident, but an "All Alert" was issued through the Toronto District School Board to all schools in the area warning them about the intruder.

Board chair Donna Cansfield said the alert was sent to all schools, both public and Catholic.

The alert came after a 13-year-old girl told a teacher at Don Mills Middle School on The Donway, near Eglinton Ave. E. and Leslie St., that she saw a man go into a female washroom used by students.

The school's principal found the man in the washroom and called police after escorting the intruder to the office.

The man gave his name and phone number but left before police arrived. The information turned out to be fictitious, police said.

"We have no way of holding an intruder," Cansfield said.

The man, described as being about 20 years old, 5-foot-7 and 160 pounds, generally matches the description of the person who attacked the girl on March 5 at Holy Name Catholic Elementary School on Carlaw Ave.

The victim, who was sexually molested, described the attacker as being between 5-foot-7 and 5-foot-11, with brown hair, and a goatee and moustache.

Police said they are trying to get more specific details about the intruder at Don Mills Middle School to determine if the men are the same person.

A letter sent to all parents in the area indicated that no one was touched or hurt by the trespasser.

"We will remind students about safe practices, and we encourage you to do the same," the letter stated.

Cansfield said it's not time to turn schools into fortresses, but she said officials are reviewing safety protocols to ensure everything is being done to protect students.

But it's also important, Cansfield said, to talk to children and streetproof them for factors both inside and outside the school.

"Safety isn't a five-hour issue," she said. "It's a 24/7 issue for our kids."

There have been two other incidents in Toronto during the past month where a stranger exposed himself to students.

[Yvonne Belisle]

Thank you for posting this we have a large number of people from that general area and I am sure many more of us will add our hopes prayers and wishes that he be caught quickly before any more harm is done.

[Fawn]

I'm flabbergasted that the school could not hold the intuder!!!
What the????
Isn't trespassing illegal?
I hope they find the sicko who is doing this.

[Flar's Freyja]

I don't know what the law is in Toronto, but where I live a school may have the same problem. Even as a child welfare worker for the state, I could not intervene without a court order or law enforcement. Many of our schools here have ridiculous policies like that, and school personnel are scared to death to do anything anymore.

[shnen]

they caught the guy yesterday afternoon, some 21 year old...

What scares me the most is this is the third time in the past month to happen.
In our schools? No, I'm sorry, that is a definite line not to cross...

I don't even have children and this makes me incredibly irrate.

[Flar's Freyja]

Unfortunately, molesters are lurking everywhere. The most common are neighbors and family members, and especially boyfriends, step-fathers and bio-dads. Females also molest. The scary thought is that one who is stupid enough to go after kids in public places leaves us better off 'cause he's more likely to be caught......

[shnen]

Oh I know that, but I have never heard the school thing before, not just anyone walking in and going into the females bathroom in a public school!... there is no privacy anymore, no lines tobe broken... it jsut makes me sick, that's all...

Oh to be Prime Minister for a month... ;)

[Flar's Freyja]

Even with all of the extra security in schools here after the school shootings, etc., I was constantly amazed that some of the schools I had to visit either ID'd me to death or just took my word for it that I was an investigator......madeyou wonder who they'd let in.........

[Flaire]

I still can't believe that.. With all the stuff going on now, it should be a necessity to ID unfamiliar people at schools and places like that~ so molesters and the like *don't* get into the schools. School is supposed to be a *safe* place, but it doesn't seem like that any more, does it? (With all the bullying & shootings and goings on)

[shnen]

I just don't understand how this can happen 3 times in one month in the same city! We are quite big, but not so big as to not hear about this stuff!

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Flaire
I still can't believe that.. With all the stuff going on now, it should be a necessity to ID unfamiliar people at schools and places like that~ so molesters and the like *don't* get into the schools. School is supposed to be a *safe* place, but it doesn't seem like that any more, does it? (With all the bullying & shootings and goings on)

The goofy thing is that the policies are supposed to be the same for all of them, but they each have their own interpretation of them.....

[shnen]

I think one of the major problems here is that Canada has this - relaxed and laid back mentality, like, that would never happen here... so our punishments aren't harsh enough, and we kinda tend to have a 'not us' mentality...
..... still fuming about it too! ;):mad:

[Flar's Freyja]

Oklahoma is a leader in many things (most of 'em wrong - like juvenile crime and women in prison) and judges here have handed out 300 year sentences for child sexual abuse. No joke.

[shnen]

wow, here they'd get like 3 years probation... it makes me mad that robbery is more jail time then rape. Things are just soo messed up, the system really needs to be looked at again!

Times change and the laws must change for them!

[Flar's Freyja]

:rolleyes: That's why Freyja quit working for the system.....

Totally :flamer: burned out on stuff like that.....

[shnen]

I can totally see that!
But Freyja is happier now though? not so much corporate,legal government red tape??? :)

[Flar's Freyja]

No, just switched to stupid judges in family court.....:rolleyes:

[MammaStar]

At my son's school (he's in 4th grade), they only keep the Main entrance doors opened & there is a volunteer posted at the front at all times who check's id's, directs you to the office & if you tell them you have an appt. with someone, they call first. You can't go until you get "clearance". The doors, which are fire exits, can only be opened from the inside. All in all I do feel pretty comfortable with my son's safety there.

[Flaire]

Originally posted by shnen
I just don't understand how this can happen 3 times in one month in the same city! We are quite big, but not so big as to not hear about this stuff!

Now that just makes it even worse!


At my son's school (he's in 4th grade), they only keep the Main entrance doors opened & there is a volunteer posted at the front at all times who check's id's, directs you to the office & if you tell them you have an appt. with someone, they call first. You can't go until you get "clearance". The doors, which are fire exits, can only be opened from the inside. All in all I do feel pretty comfortable with my son's safety there.

That's great that they're doing that... :) I think HS's should start to have that too....At the HS that I went to, anyone could walk in any other door besides the main one and get away with anything~ and no one from the office wouldn't know any different unless someone reported something. :dis:

[shnen]

Oh Freyja, how frustrating, you are a very strong woman to have to do that every day! :)

It's nice to hear some places are taking percautions...
It just makes me sick that people even do these things... what can you do? We are far from a perfect society! :rolleyes:

[Flar's Freyja]

Yes, I lost a lot of respect for a judge on that stressful day last week....

It takes a village. Squeaky wheels. Getting together as a group and being loud and vocal usually gets results. And sometimes even one person acting alone can make a difference.

I actually had to go through a metal detector at one of the high schools here, but they didn't continue the practice. And don't forget - these perverts are very manipulative and devious - which goes back to most of them being a neighbor, friend, teacher, coach, employee......

Another heartbreaking part of my job is trying to help parents who didn't see this happening. Sometimes there are blatant clues but just as often there aren't - and kids are threatened with all kinds of horrors as pressure not to tell.

[shnen]

I could never do that... I would carry too much of it on myself.
I commend you for your courage and strength... :)
But if you ever need a shoulder, mine is readily available :)

[Flar's Freyja]

:heartthro

Thanks, Shnen!

[shnen]

Anytime Freyja! :)

[shnen]

update: ANOTHER GUY IN HIS 40's!!:mad:

ugh, makes me sick....

[Flar's Freyja]

:confused: Do you mean that this has happened again, or was there another guy involved in the same incident?

[shnen]

hppened AGAIN! :mad:

[Flaire]

That's just getting absurd!

[Flar's Freyja]

:eyebrow: In one week?

That's disgusting.

[Flaire]

You'd think with that many in that short of time that SOMETHING would be getting done about it...:rolleyes:

[Mythrel]

I'm not even going to get started...all of these sick, demented perverts that rape children/child pornographers and such...should all just be killed slowly with a broom stick up the a$$...

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:meanface: :flamer: :meanface: :flamer:

[Yvonne Belisle]

Well the English did a king that way but it was a hot poker I think they may have had something there!

[Mythrel]

Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
Well the English did a king that way but it was a hot poker I think they may have had something there!


nods in agreement!!! let's go make it law now!!!

[shnen]

OH, if Shnen could be Prime Minister for a day, month, weeks... she doesn't even want pay... :)

See, this is why in a sense the media is bad - one person hears about it, the media tell about it as warning, or just for viewers - but it's also giving perv's ideas too! :mad:

[Flar's Freyja]

Of course, I should have said this much, much sooner ~ while it doesn't seem we can do much about these sick individuals, one thing we can do is teach our kids to protect themselves. Children should be taught at a very early age about good touch/bad touch, not talking to strangers, what makes them feel comfortable or uncomfortable, when to tell and who to talk to ~ and that they don't always have to obey adults. I always told my kids that if any adult ever told them not to tell me something that's surely when they'd better tell.....And of course, the difference between good and bad secrets and surprises.

Did you know that children who are what we call "indiscriminately affectionate" - the child who is very open and friendly and will climb on to strangers' laps and freely give hugs - are frequently sexually abused or are easy targets? Or little girls who are "seductive" beyond their years? (dressing inappropriately, a bit too much experimentation with makeup and perfume) These signs are things to look for in children you are in contact with.

Sometimes a simple thing like always asking permission before you hug a child can be a teachable moment for them. If they're not getting this information at home, this is a way that we can all make them a bit more aware.

[shnen]

Yes, that is a very good point Freyja.:)

i guess this situation jsut makes me sick because it's a place where it's females only, you shouldn't have to worry about going to the bathroom and having a guy there to flash you or molest you... not jsut that - but isn't it a bit sick to hang out in any bathroom???

[Flar's Freyja]

Definitely. :confused: Real puzzle as to how they're getting in there.

I worked in a security patrolled office building and still felt uncomfortable going into the bathrooms when I was at work after hours.

[Flaire]

Originally posted by Freyja
Of course, I should have said this much, much sooner ~ while it doesn't seem we can do much about these sick individuals, one thing we can do is teach our kids to protect themselves. Children should be taught at a very early age about good touch/bad touch, not talking to strangers, what makes them feel comfortable or uncomfortable, when to tell and who to talk to ~ and that they don't always have to obey adults. I always told my kids that if any adult ever told them not to tell me something that's surely when they'd better tell.....And of course, the difference between good and bad secrets and surprises.

Did you know that children who are what we call "indiscriminately affectionate" - the child who is very open and friendly and will climb on to strangers' laps and freely give hugs - are frequently sexually abused or are easy targets? Or little girls who are "seductive" beyond their years? (dressing inappropriately, a bit too much experimentation with makeup and perfume) These signs are things to look for in children you are in contact with.

Sometimes a simple thing like always asking permission before you hug a child can be a teachable moment for them. If they're not getting this information at home, this is a way that we can all make them a bit more aware.


That's a real good point, Freyja...

As for the bathroom thing...:rolleyes: Guess who's not going into public bathrooms ever again? (Besides the fact that they're filthy beyond belief!) I dunno...I just never liked public bathrooms~ so much could go on in there and people outside wouldn't really notice and/or care... It's just a BATHROOM....what could go wrong in a bathroom??

Well.... :dis: Now we know....

[shnen]

Flaire... NO ONE likes public bathrooms! :sick:
*ok, well amost no one*:mad:

[Phoenix_Blue]

In most states, going into a bathroom marked for the opposite gender is not illegal. Maybe this should be rectified so that next time, the school will have some authority to hold him.

'Course, if they couldn't hold him in custody after he trespassed, I don't know what more they can do anyway.

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Flaire



That's a real good point, Freyja...

As for the bathroom thing...:rolleyes: Guess who's not going into public bathrooms ever again? (Besides the fact that they're filthy beyond belief!) I dunno...I just never liked public bathrooms~ so much could go on in there and people outside wouldn't really notice and/or care... It's just a BATHROOM....what could go wrong in a bathroom??

Well.... :dis: Now we know....

What happened to the good ole days when a teacher or other staff had to go in there with the kids to monitor them?

[Flaire]

That really happened??

Huh...Why don't they just ban bathrooms during classes.....(Do you know when it happened, Shnen??) Cuz during classes there's like no one in the bathrooms...making anyone who walks in a prime target... :eyebrow: heh...

[shnen]

I have no idea, they don't give that much specifics, but it's probalbly when it would be a single vulnerable little girl...

UGH! :mad: we need a furious smilie...

[Flaire]

Yeah....:meanface: <- How about him?

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Flaire
That really happened??

Huh...Why don't they just ban bathrooms during classes.....(Do you know when it happened, Shnen??) Cuz during classes there's like no one in the bathrooms...making anyone who walks in a prime target... :eyebrow: heh...

Yes, it did. The little ones so that they'd get their business done and get out and the bigger ones to be monitored for smoking, etc. Banning bathrooms during classes doesn't work because kids do have to go, and that's cruel.

Schools are understaffed in a lot of areas these days, at least here in the US.

And again ~ these derelicts are smart! They know how to get in there despite precautions. We need to teach our babies how to protect themselves. A thought might be to teach them never to go into a bathroom alone.......

[Margie]

Yes teachers did used to go into the bathroom with the students, but what happened? Students accused teachers of molesting them, parents freak cause they don't want teachers looking at theri kids going to the bathroom or whatever. I mean, on one hand, you can't trust anybody, teachers, police even priests have hurt and molested people. On the other hand, you have to trust somebody and you can't freak about every person who's there to try to protect you and your kids.

Freyja also made very good points about teching your children how to act. Sure even if a girl dresses sexy, she's not asking to get raped or molested, but is her dressing sexy appropriate behavior? Do you *make* your kids give "Uncle Joe" a kiss even when they're resisting? That's teaching them that it's ok to force affection and it can grow from that. Sometimes adults are wrong and kids need to know that too. Some grow up thinking adults are always right no matter what and if they get into a situation like that, they will do what the adult says, even if it's sick and twisted. The poor kid doesn't know the difference.

[Flar's Freyja]

Excellent points, Margie and 100% accurate.

I didn't mean to imply that the kids are asking for it - what I meant was that when you see a child with that type of behavior it is highly likely that they are ALREADY being molested. Or being groomed by a prospective offender. Or being raised by victims who are passing their own patterns, which many times they're not even aware of, to their kids.

I supervised a visit once where a mom brought her little girl a pink bra. The child was five years old!:eek:

Mom was a victim who never received help. Kids from families with untreated parents are more likely to be at risk for sexual abuse.

[Margie]

Originally posted by Freyja

I didn't mean to imply that the kids are asking for it - what I meant was that when you see a child with that type of behavior it is highly likely that they are ALREADY being molested. Or being groomed by a prospective offender. Or being raised by victims who are passing their own patterns, which many times they're not even aware of, to their kids.



Oh I didn't mean to make it seem like they derved it or asked for it either. I really got what you meant. I just meant that the parents need to teach their children appropriate behavior. If they don't, their children will dress and act inappropriately, not knowing any better, and this could open them up to being attacked and molested.

[Flaire]

In response to the girls dressing sexy...

At my old school, there was this new code brought in my one of the new vice-principals that stopped girls from wearing anything too low(on the top) or too high (on the bottom) (if you know what I mean)....So that meant that most tube tops & some tank tops weren't allowed to be worn anymore, as well as super-mini skirts..Which I figure to be a good thing ~ I mean..There were some girls there that were just asking for it.

Oh I didn't mean to make it seem like they derved it or asked for it either. I really got what you meant. I just meant that the parents need to teach their children appropriate behavior. If they don't, their children will dress and act inappropriately, not knowing any better, and this could open them up to being attacked and molested.

Yeah..I agree to that totally... There are guys out there who would glady prey on girls who acted like that. And for goodness sakes... They're dressing the way they do?! And they wonder afterwards why it happened to them. I think that if the parents don't teach their children what is appropriate to wear in public places, like schools, then it is partially their fault. As well as attitudes ~ I wouldn't want my daughter (if I ever had one) going around the schools acting and looking like girls are depicted in teen HS movies..That's just ridculous, and downright sick. (I'm thinking mostly of Sugar & Spice as the movie example here...I know, not a good one, but I don't usually watch those kinds of movies)

[Old Witch]

Here, we have a police officer in every school.......every child wears a picture ID around their neck, and every visitor must have a pass around their neck.......he would have been held........ and the school would have been on lockdown until they were sure no one else was in there........We are very serious about school security.

[Flar's Freyja]

Originally posted by Margie


Oh I didn't mean to make it seem like they derved it or asked for it either. I really got what you meant. I just meant that the parents need to teach their children appropriate behavior. If they don't, their children will dress and act inappropriately, not knowing any better, and this could open them up to being attacked and molested.

Exactly. So we made the same point!:)

I'm also very concerned with what the young girls have as role models. I am appalled at Miss Brittney Spears. She might have gotten older but still looks like a baby, and preteen girls are idolizing her.

Good to hear that school security is beefed up in your area, too, OW.

[Flaire]

:lol: Any of those popstar type people (Okay, BS in general since she's the BIG ONE) are bad fashion influences on pre teens... :rolleyes: As well as some of their music too.. Don't mind me, I just *really* don't like that much pop music.

[Flar's Freyja]

You're right, though. There are a few more besides Ms. Brittney, I don't follow it either so I don't know names. Very poor role models.

[Flaire]

I used to watch the music stations, way back when... Now I simply don't care~ videos with all sorts of barely clothed women prancing around...Whatever. I know I'll never look like that..Don't care either (I like Jann Arden though.. :))