Lycian vs Lycan: Clearing Things Up

[Seshen]

It's fascinating what one comes across when surfing the Net. But it's useful to find out what misconceptions are out there also.

Here's the latest on our Trad, and my official response. (http://www.seshen.com/WiccanWitch/lycianlycan.html)

[Theres]

if she wants to be even more historically accurate, 'Lycian' is someone or something from Lycia in ancient Anatolia (modern Turkey).

"I wanted to set the record straight before it became "fact.""

[Seshen]

if she wants to be even more historically accurate, 'Lycian' is someone or something from Lycia in ancient Anatolia (modern Turkey).



That wouldn't be historically accurate at all, because our Tradition has nothing to do with Turkey. "Lycian" is used linguistically, not as a marker for a geographical location.

[Arion]

if she wants to be even more historically accurate, 'Lycian' is someone or something from Lycia in ancient Anatolia (modern Turkey).

That's what I was thinking.

[Theres]

That wouldn't be historically accurate at all, because our Tradition has nothing to do with Turkey.
sorry, but it would be completely accurate historically.



"Lycian" is used linguistically, not as a marker for a geographical location.
i see what you're getting at, but if you are going to change the definition of existing words then you are going to have to expect some confusion too.

[Toby Stimpson]

To be quite honest you have really very little on your actual tradition.. you say what it's not, but really you dont say what it is. You dont say what the wolf totem means to you... you don't give a reason why people might jump and Theres is right, Lycia and Lycian has direct links to the old city in hellenic/roman asia minor... its you who is taking the word and changing it.

I've had a look on google, and found you're main website, I'm a little confused. You're main Gods are modelled after the tarot cards... but there is no Wolf archetype in the tarot. So what does the wolf have to do with your tradition other than the name, Im curious...

[Seshen]

sorry, but it would be completely accurate historically.

i see what you're getting at, but if you are going to change the definition of existing words then you are going to have to expect some confusion too.
Historically if you're referring to geographic location. But in using it linguistically, it can be applied as an adjective successfully here.

"Lyc-" comes from the Greek language for "wolf" and "-ian" is the standard English ending meaning "of" or "pertaining to." We haven't changed the definition in the slightest. As for confusion, I'm sure folks can figure out easily the difference between Turkey, Wicca and a lighting company (which also bears the name).

[Seshen]

To be quite honest you have really very little on your actual tradition.. you say what it's not, but really you dont say what it is. You dont say what the wolf totem means to you... you don't give a reason why people might jump and Theres is right, Lycia and Lycian has direct links to the old city in hellenic/roman asia minor... its you who is taking the word and changing it.

The page refers to a small trend; it's not meant to give details on the Tradition. People need to go to the website for that.


I've had a look on google, and found you're main website, I'm a little confused. You're main Gods are modelled after the tarot cards... but there is no Wolf archetype in the tarot. So what does the wolf have to do with your tradition other than the name, Im curious...
No, our Gods aren't modeled after the tarot. We have used different tarot spreads to explain the Deities, who were here long before the tarot. They are convenient illustrations to represent the God/desses, just as the alphabet letters are convenient symbols for the sounds we use. Do you see where I'm going with this? We're not explaining the wolf in the tarot; we're explaining the forces of nature as Deities. The wolf resides elsewhere, in our Wheel and some oathbound areas.

[Toby Stimpson]

I don't necessarily think that people would make that leap...and know th difference. When I first saw the name, I immediatly assumed a Greek or Anatolian reconstructionist group. Lyc is meaning wolf yes, but to go with the word Lycian is to directly look at the only thing the word has ever been used for... As far as dictionary.com is concerned Lyca (wolf) does not even come into it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lycian

I think perhaps the the more appropriate way without making and creating confusion would be Lycaian, as Lycia is and only has been used, as by definition of dictionary.com as meaning the city of Lycia, the Lycian language, and the inhabitants/speakers of Lycia and Lycian.

I am still a little confused though, I eman it sounds like an interesting tradition but... Im still confused how the Wolf comes into the picture. I saw only a couple of places where the wolf was mentioned, and even then it didnt go indepth, can you explain a little more?

[Jolixte]

If it's a definition you made up, why would there be misconceptions about it?

[Erincelt]

I am still a little confused though, I eman it sounds like an interesting tradition but... Im still confused how the Wolf comes into the picture. I saw only a couple of places where the wolf was mentioned, and even then it didnt go indepth, can you explain a little more?

As a practicing Lycian Wiccan myself -- albeit with only a very small coven -- I'll try to shed a little light through the filter of my personal gnosis. (Disclaimer: I'm tired as all get-out right now, so I'm terse and brainless.) The Wolf comes up in the broad symbolic scheme, and in its metaphorical influence on the structure and ethics of the Tradition. It is a symbol for the primal self, and invites us to stand up to our challenges with strength and nobility -- and even humility. (Ie, "know your place.")

The strength of the wolf is the pack -- so, we offer challenges to each other, and simultaneously aid each other in conquering them. The strength of the pack is the weakest member -- so... see above. ;) For an example, among the information on the main site is the Wolf Exercise.

I highly recommend Boniface's Lycian podcasts to get a feel for the philosophical implications of wolf symbolism as used in the Tradition. If nothing else, he comes across better than I do at trying to explain.

[Boniface]

Some people have had a problem with our tradition being called "Lycian," saying that it refers to the location in the region of Anatolia and therefore our tradition should have something to do with that geographic area. The word itself, however, comes from the Greek word for "wolf." We use it in this manner: "lyc = wolf" and "-ian = of pertaining to." So the word "Lycian" carries the meaning "of, or pertaining to, the wolf." The location named "Lycia" is so named because of the population's dedication to "Wolfish Apollo." Here is a reference:

http://books.google.com/books?id=YeiU2OnJKaUC&lpg=PA272&ots=X_4dKFBJVi&dq=lycian%20of%20men%20and%20wolves&pg=PA272#v=onepage&q=&f=false

[Boniface]

I've had a look on google, and found you're main website, I'm a little confused. You're main Gods are modelled after the tarot cards... but there is no Wolf archetype in the tarot. So what does the wolf have to do with your tradition other than the name, Im curious...

The images of the Tarot are "archetypal" and so relate easily to the Gods and Goddesses. We as human beings, in trying to understand the forces of Nature, have anthropomorphized them into the cultural images of the deities. In the Lycian tradition we know that the images of deities are NOT the deities themselves, simply useful tools in our efforts to relate to these forces of Nature, so the Tarot images are just as valid in depicting them as any others.


And for the "wolf" in our tradition; our third degree initiation is called the Wild Hunt and wolves have a part in that. The ritual itself is secret, so I guess this answer will not satisfy you. Oh well.