Some questions related to German ancestry

[Agaliha]

Recently I started to really look into my genealogy and to my suprise I found tons of documents and information about my mother's ancestors. Well her paternal side (maternal and paternal lines). I knew they were German, but I didn't know any details. I came to find out they came from the Alsace region of France and moved to Speier, Ukraine after the manifesto of Catherine the Great. There's documents of my great-great-great-grandfather living in the town in the late 1800s and where they came from (Wingen, Alsace, France). I thought perhaps they mingled with the fellow Ukrainians, but I guess the German founded towns (like Speier) were basically all German in every aspect. My great-great-grandfather Peter Zent came over to American in 1903 to North Dakota (Jacob, my g-grandfather was a child). My grandfather (Leo) is one of Jacob's kids. I can trace their lineage all the way to the late 1600s. My mom's paternal maternal line is also German, but I don't have as much details yet. And to my SUPRISE my dad's mother is also of German orgin-- I thought she was Native American! So that means all of our NA comes from my dad's father. Weird, as he was always told she was NA. So I came to realized German heritage is by far the most in my family. My mom's materal line is probably Slavic as the little I uncovered seem to indicate that.

Now I don't plan on suddenly changing my spiritual path, but I was wondering about something. Technically my ancestors were Christian, Catholic I believe. I have no record of any past the late 1600s. I have no idea if they came from mainland France and moved to the Alsace region (doubtful) or if they came from Germany and moved there (probably). I believe they're ethnic Germans though, everything indicates they were. So if one were to look to their ancestors for a spiritual path how would one make the jump from their Catholic ancestors that they know of to honoring Germanic deities now as a spititual path? As in if I were to look into that, would I just assume they honored Germanic deities way back (beyond when I can find records for) or what?

Also I was starting to think of having a little ancestor area on my altar, but I have no idea how or what to do with that. I don't have any photos of them. It seems tacky to frame a Census with their info on it and put it there :lol: . Does anyone else with German ancestory have any ideas how to encorporate that? I have a pretty blue vase that was my great-grandmothers (paternal). And a rooster figurine that was hers too. They're both on my altar. Should I just do something surrounding that? I have a few NA figurines that I have to symbolize those ancestors, nothing yet for the Ukrainian.

Anyway, just wondering. :)

[Brightshores]

Interesting history you've got there!! :)

Now I don't plan on suddenly changing my spiritual path, but I was wondering about something. Technically my ancestors were Christian, Catholic I believe. I have no record of any past the late 1600s. I have no idea if they came from mainland France and moved to the Alsace region (doubtful) or if they came from Germany and moved there (probably). I believe they're ethnic Germans though, everything indicates they were. So if one were to look to their ancestors for a spiritual path how would one make the jump from their Catholic ancestors that they know of to honoring Germanic deities now as a spititual path? As in if I were to look into that, would I just assume they honored Germanic deities way back (beyond when I can find records for) or what?
It's amazing how many German enclaves developed throughout Eastern Europe. My husband has ancestors from Romania who were ethnically German in exactly the way you describe.

Ok - here's the historical perspective. (Sorry if I get a bit long-winded.) :) Alsace has been fought over between the French and Germans since Charlemagne.. he gave each of his three sons one province... one got France, one got Germany, and one got the lands in between. Unfortunately, the son (Lothar) who got the lands in between was the first to die, so the two brothers started fighting over his lands. Hence developed all the countries in between France and Germany (Belgium, The Netherlands, etc.) and all the areas such as Alsace and Lorraine (the name itself comes from "Lotharingia") that have been fought over for a millenium and more.

Prior to that, the Frankish tribes were actually Germanic in origin... the main difference is that the Franks moved further to the west than their cousins did, and settled in areas that were formerly part of the Roman empire and had ethnic Latins and Celts living in them previously. If you're interested in this period of history or in the Frankish tribes, check out History of the Franks by Gregory of Tours. It's a very interesting, yet very dense, account of the establishment of the Merovingian Frankish kingdom just after the fall of the Roman empire.

Alsace is basically on the border of what was the Roman Empire. So... to make a long story short, you could, with at least some historical justification, honor Roman, Continental Germanic, or Continental Celtic deities based on your Alsatian ancestry.
Also I was starting to think of having a little ancestor area on my altar, but I have no idea how or what to do with that. I don't have any photos of them. It seems tacky to frame a Census with their info on it and put it there :lol: . Does anyone else with German ancestory have any ideas how to encorporate that? I have a pretty blue vase that was my great-grandmothers (paternal). And a rooster figurine that was hers too. They're both on my altar. Should I just do something surrounding that? I have a few NA figurines that I have to symbolize those ancestors, nothing yet for the Ukrainian.
Anyway, just wondering. :)
I too have German ancestry (hey, maybe we're cousins! 8O ). Are there any symbols of Alsace? (For example, Wales has the Dragon, Germany proper has an Eagle on their insignia, and if Alsace has anything like that, you could incorporate traditional symbology). Or, you could find a lovely picture of a place in Alsace that speaks to you, and put it in a small frame on your altar. Just a few ideas.

Hope this helps! :)

[Agaliha]

Interesting history you've got there!! :)

:) I was pretty suprised. I had no idea about a lot of the details!

Ok - here's the historical perspective. (Sorry if I get a bit long-winded.) :) Alsace has been fought over between the French and Germans since Charlemagne.. he gave each of his three sons one province... one got France, one got Germany, and one got the lands in between. Unfortunately, the son (Lothar) who got the lands in between was the first to die, so the two brothers started fighting over his lands. Hence developed all the countries in between France and Germany (Belgium, The Netherlands, etc.) and all the areas such as Alsace and Lorraine (the name itself comes from "Lotharingia") that have been fought over for a millenium and more.

I started doing research on the general history of the area, but you explained it far better than I've seen so far. :lol: Though I'm sure a lot of details are being left out, I'll fill in the blanks in due time.

Prior to that, the Frankish tribes were actually Germanic in origin... the main difference is that the Franks moved further to the west than their cousins did, and settled in areas that were formerly part of the Roman empire and had ethnic Latins and Celts living in them previously. If you're interested in this period of history or in the Frankish tribes, check out History of the Franks by Gregory of Tours. It's a very interesting, yet very dense, account of the establishment of the Merovingian Frankish kingdom just after the fall of the Roman empire.

I'll see if my library has that book, seems like it'd help me out.

Alsace is basically on the border of what was the Roman Empire. So... to make a long story short, you could, with at least some historical justification, honor Roman, Continental Germanic, or Continental Celtic deities based on your Alsatian ancestry.

Wow. Roman, Germanic or Celtic. I figured Germanic and I was aware of Roman connections, but not the Celtic. Interesting!

I too have German ancestry (hey, maybe we're cousins! 8O ). Are there any symbols of Alsace? (For example, Wales has the Dragon, Germany proper has an Eagle on their insignia, and if Alsace has anything like that, you could incorporate traditional symbology). Or, you could find a lovely picture of a place in Alsace that speaks to you, and put it in a small frame on your altar. Just a few ideas.

We could be! I have these surnames in my lineage:
Zent, Wetzstein, Helbling, Heck, Samtmann, Gerhardt, Hoerner, Weingartner...and some others.

Good idea, too. I never thought of that :)

Thanks!

[seapearls]

PM me and I can help you try to figure all this out. I've got my tree in some parts back to the 600's, I have many Franks in my tree. You can view the desctiption of my tree here and the dynasties that are listed.

http://heathenwv.blogspot.com/2006/10/my-bloodline.html

As for making the jump from Christian to Germanic deities, unless there is proof you have to assume it could be either depending on where and when they were living and definitely who they were, famous or not. For example, I know my Merovingian and Carolingian lines were Christian without a doubt and I know my Yngling line was mostly Heathen. It's all been documents thru history. The same goes with my viking ancestors, I know Ragnar Lodbrok was a Heasthen and that Rollo the Viking turned Christian before he died. The same with King Clovis so that helps my research because I don't have to wonder. I don't think it matters much what they were anymore, it was their deeds if I know them that matters.

When it comes to an ancestral altar it doesn't have to be anything spectacular or in one spot either. I have framed pictures of different ancestors thruout the house. I honor them by doing my genealogy and if I'm thinking of one in particular I speak their name and a whatever comes to mind as I go to bed. I know they hear me.

[Nitefalle]

Hm, I have paternal ancestry from the Alsace region, as well, and I do believe they were ethnically German - in fact, it is my current surname, the same surname of the Alsace relatives (though I know that some came over in the late 1700's, as we have a certificate stating such). I don't know if all of them came over, or just some. I also don't know if my surname originated from that region or if they came from elsewhere and merely settled there, and if so how long they were there before coming over. The history gets REALLY muddled from when they came over until the late 1800's - I can track back to my great-great grandfather with my surname, but beyond that I don't have anything.

I also have more current German heritage - my maternal great-great grandfather was Otto Kucher - he was fresh off the boat, though I don't know where in Germany he came from. My paternal great grandparents (on my grandmothers side) were the Schultzes and the Breunigs, based out of Minnesota, though I don't know when they came over. I think they may have been first or second generation German American, but that's just a hunch.

This isn't my only heritage, just the strongest bit which happens to be German.


LOL - we should have a "Who's related to who on MW" thread!!!