Myths and the gods

[Arion]

Some of the threads in the G&G forum got me thinking, and i wondered if other recons shared my views that mythology doesn't play a major role in religion and how we see the gods, or if i'm on my own on this one. I've just always been under the impression that myths were metaphors and fictional stories with the gods representing certain ideals to get the point across, and not having much religious significance. From what I've read, ritual is most important when it comes to understanding the nature of the gods, no?

[Tim]

I absolutely agree... specifically from a Hellenic standpoint... anyone that has done any research of the actual Greek religion knows that the myths were written by poets not prophets... they were never looked at as creed... the imagination of writers were not limited by any consideration of religion or morality... Arthur Fairbanks does probably the best job explaining the differences between myth and religion in his book A Handbook of Greek Religion.

[Faol-chù]

Some of the threads in the G&G forum got me thinking, and i wondered if other recons shared my views that mythology doesn't play a major role in religion and how we see the gods, or if i'm on my own on this one. I've just always been under the impression that myths were metaphors and fictional stories with the gods representing certain ideals to get the point across, and not having much religious significance. From what I've read, ritual is most important when it comes to understanding the nature of the gods, no?


I honestly think that "metaphors" and the stories you are calling "fictional" definitely had power. I think, though that there were more "stories" than just the ones that have come to us in writing or been generally recorded in some way.

It seems to me that the stories we have recieved have*definitely*, for a period of time, influenced the course of society. It also seems to me that what we have, mostly in writing reflect the views of people in high standing in society, at a time when it was 'fashionable' to compose (written and oral) epic tales which reflected national character and history, as perceived by them (or perhaps what they wanted others to see). I think, also, that perhaps the gods named were those which dealt with 'national' issues, and perhaps not necessarily 'everyday' ones. I think the question then becomes, "What of these gods is relevant to me?" Maybe none. Maybe one or two. There are other gods besides those recognized by those in political power. We don't necessarily have all their names...

And besides that, what constitutes a "god", anyway, as compared to anything else?

Just stirring the pot...:)

Le meas,

[Seren_]

Some of the threads in the G&G forum got me thinking, and i wondered if other recons shared my views that mythology doesn't play a major role in religion and how we see the gods, or if i'm on my own on this one. I've just always been under the impression that myths were metaphors and fictional stories with the gods representing certain ideals to get the point across, and not having much religious significance. From what I've read, ritual is most important when it comes to understanding the nature of the gods, no?

For me, mythology is an important part of how I see the gods. I don't see the myths as being literal, but to me, even as metaphors or fictional stories - however you want to interpret them - they were created to inform people of how the deities are. I don't see this as being explicit, but reading the myths herlps me 'get' them in a way.

The myths give me an idea of their personality, so to speak. Ritual provides a mechanism by which I can experience and honour them...so I would agree that ritual is important in that it can help to provide understanding of the nature of the gods, but I would say myth is equally important/significant. Both elements come into play in my experience of them, but ultimately my understanding is based on a foundation of both, resulting in my own UPG.

[Arion]

I absolutely agree... specifically from a Hellenic standpoint... anyone that has done any research of the actual Greek religion knows that the myths were written by poets not prophets... they were never looked at as creed... the imagination of writers were not limited by any consideration of religion or morality... Arthur Fairbanks does probably the best job explaining the differences between myth and religion in his book A Handbook of Greek Religion.

Thanks, I agree totally, and also thanks for the book recommendation! I'll have to read that one.

[Twinkle]

I just got it myself Arion. I'll get you a link for it.:hahugh:

[Tim]

Thanks, I agree totally, and also thanks for the book recommendation! I'll have to read that one.
I really think it's because of conditioning, generation after generation, that we find ourselves putting such a great deal of weight on myth when the ancients did not (at least the Greeks). It's a concept that's difficult to break because the myths give us something to point to... but there is no Hellenic Polytheist's Bible and there never will be.

[David19]

For me, mythology is an important part of how I see the gods. I don't see the myths as being literal, but to me, even as metaphors or fictional stories - however you want to interpret them - they were created to inform people of how the deities are. I don't see this as being explicit, but reading the myths herlps me 'get' them in a way.

The myths give me an idea of their personality, so to speak. Ritual provides a mechanism by which I can experience and honour them...so I would agree that ritual is important in that it can help to provide understanding of the nature of the gods, but I would say myth is equally important/significant. Both elements come into play in my experience of them, but ultimately my understanding is based on a foundation of both, resulting in my own UPG.

I agree with you, to me, the myths are important in getting a glimpse of what the gods are like, their personalities, etc.

Without mythology, I'd be a bit confused as to how you knew what the gods were like, e.g. how would you know that Apollo liked both girls and guys, that YHWH was a jealous god, etc.

[Tim]

The problem with myth (at least dealing with Greek myth) is (1) mythology is was never considered religious creed and had little to do with actual worship; (2) in myth, imagination was not limited by any consideration of religion or morality; (3) the list of beings worshiped in myth does not exactly coincide with those in regular worship; (4) where the list of Gods in myth and religion do match, myth presents them as archetypical figures with the exclusion of the many epithets the Gods and Goddesses were worshiped with.

So basically, one has a story that the poet wanted to convey and the Gods are written into literary archetypes without consideration of the totality in whcih they were seen by the religion. This is why so many Recons will insist that the Gods are not their myths.

[Dragonstar Iris]

I should definitely pick up your book, Tim, as well as the one you recommended in this thread. I guess if this is something to pursue more seriously than it's something that I need to read into some more. ;)

However, I can't deny that the myths lend an air of romanticism to the Hellenic way of life, and I can't help but think that's what drew me to the culture and religion. When I was in grade school and I first learned about the Greek pantheon (in Catholic school too!), I just felt completely drawn to them and became easily immersed in the tales. I think it may have actually bothered my teacher and librarian at the school too. Lol.

[Tim]

@Dragonstar Iris

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to dismiss or discount the myths, just place it in proper perspective.

[Dragonstar Iris]

@Dragonstar Iris

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to dismiss or discount the myths, just place it in proper perspective.

Oh no, I understand you completely. I'm just interested in your perspective.

[Arion]

However, I can't deny that the myths lend an air of romanticism to the Hellenic way of life, and I can't help but think that's what drew me to the culture and religion. When I was in grade school and I first learned about the Greek pantheon (in Catholic school too!), I just felt completely drawn to them and became easily immersed in the tales. I think it may have actually bothered my teacher and librarian at the school too. Lol.

Hehe, I went to a Catholic school as well. It kind of bothered me that they teach that the Greek gods are only mythological figures in literature, and not religiously valid like Catholicism and their god. In my school, I got the impression from the class and the teacher that anyone who actually believed in the Greek gods and their myths had to be crazy, and that Christianity was so much more evolved. I got a bit steamed :p Anyway, in my grade 11 ancient history class, I did a presentation on Greek religion, and compared a few of the religious figures, symbols, and myths to Christian ones, and talked about how alike they are. It actually stirred up quite a class discussion :D
My teacher loved it, she wass kind of into New Age stuff, and had taken part in goddess rituals with her yoga group, so she was open to different religious beliefs. She was going on about goddess worship, and how it made a lot more sense for God to be a woman instead of a man. It was a fun day in Catholic land ;)

[RainInanna]

It kind of bothered me that they teach that the Greek gods are only mythological figures in literature, and not religiously valid like Catholicism and their god.

I remember it dawning on me as a kid, "wait, those gods are make believe, but that one is definitely real... because... ? wha?". :hahugh:

[Twinkle]

I should definitely pick up your book, Tim, as well as the one you recommended in this thread. I guess if this is something to pursue more seriously than it's something that I need to read into some more. ;)

However, I can't deny that the myths lend an air of romanticism to the Hellenic way of life, and I can't help but think that's what drew me to the culture and religion. When I was in grade school and I first learned about the Greek pantheon (in Catholic school too!), I just felt completely drawn to them and became easily immersed in the tales. I think it may have actually bothered my teacher and librarian at the school too. Lol.


I've read it. It's great book.:)

I had the same draw to Greek Mythology as well as a child. Sure...it draws you in....and that's not a bad thing. The problem is that people read the myths and the hymns and start worshiping an archetype. They don't delve into the totality of the god. Cultural perspective is really important.

[David19]

I just found this site, http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/SevenSages.html and it says this about Poets and ancient Hellenic belief:

The Poet
When humans contemplated Dawn for the first time, wisdom was the treasure of the poet alone. Of all men he was the wisest, for the gods had chosen his soul as receptacle of their confidences. Thus filled with inspiration divine, the poet knew better than any other man the secrets of the world. And since Apollo found more pleasure in leading the Muses than in warming his tripod, neither the inspiration of the Pythia nor that of seers could match the poet's wisdom. And since the divine is far beyond human reason, nor could anyone else follow the secret paths of sacred absurdity by means of rational thinking. The gods might have blinded the eyes of the poet, but they consented in opening his soul wide. Then mankind looked into that soul as in a mirror and was delighted at its beauty and purity, its freedom and simplicity, its justice and sense. That inexplicable vision mankind called 'wisdom', an unpolluted gift, a golden path to heaven. That is why also posterity acknowledged

"As we to the brutes, poets are to us." [George Meredith 1828-1919, Diana of the Crossways]

For compared to the poet, the rest of mankind crawls in mud and blood. But 'A poet is born, not made', and later the gods—for reasons unknown—must have blinded his soul as well, for the poet was inspired no longer. And his soul being exhausted, Wisdom had to rebuild her palace elsewhere.

I could be wrong but it seems to say that the poet is granted the ability to "speak" about the gods (like what they are like, personality, etc), would this give a new view of the Greek myths (since most of the myths, like Homer's, were written by poets).

[Dragonstar Iris]

I have to admit that the fact that the Hellenistic deities actually HAVE personality, so to speak, is what makes them so much more enticing than the god of Christianity...who you're not even supposed to question.

Sorry I was gone, I came home to Michigan after my semester was over. :)