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Twig
April 21st, 2002, 01:06 PM
Do you think Gandalf of TLotR is a druid?

Eric
April 21st, 2002, 04:00 PM
I'd submit that if we were applying real-world terms to Tolkien's world, Gandalf would more of a Vitki. His name itself is related to Woden, and his knowledge of the runes is evidence enough. :) He's also conversant with the alfar (elves) and dvergar (dwarves) in a manner far above most normal men.

nicanfhilidh
April 21st, 2002, 07:06 PM
Also, speaking purely in the context of the book and not of the Norse mythology Tolkien based a lot of this stuff on, Gandalf isn't a man - he's one of the Istari, a lesser Valar. That is to say, he's somewhat the equivalent of an angel in Christian cosmology. Druids were human beings, of course.

Twig
April 21st, 2002, 08:38 PM
Just a thought. ;) hehehehe

Eric
April 21st, 2002, 10:11 PM
Tolkien himself was a Catholic with a deep, deep respect of his ancestral heritage. :)

Illuminatus
April 22nd, 2002, 10:22 AM
Yup. Vala were angels, except that to battle Sauron in Middle Earth, Gandalf (and the other 4 istari, Radagast, Saruman and 2 other schmucks we don't hear much about) accepted the responsibility not only to be "clad" (take physical form), but feel pain and hardship the same as mortals do, which Vala don't normally have to do. So in that sense, Gandalf can be seen as a Christ figure, enduring all the slings and arrows of walking as a lesser being in the spirit of self-sacrafice, to fight against a fallen angel (Sauron was also a Vala, but he lost his ability to take physical form when he lost his ring). One could even go a step further to say that Saruman was a Judas of sorts :)

- Ill

Chibi-Fallon
April 22nd, 2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by Éric
Tolkien himself was a Catholic
Maybe he was just in the closet. :D

Twig
April 22nd, 2002, 10:06 PM
It seems as if we have a few simerillian (sp) fans here! :D

No, my question is... would Gandalf have been a druid in the classical sense? Given the circumstances, and in the context of the story, could Gandalf fit the archtypical druid style? Or, would this be a man that the druids of today would want to emulate? Can we as druids look to this man as a figure we want to be like? Is is unobtainable? Is it a fitting model?

When I first read of this, I thought he WAS a druid.

Let us chew on that for a while.

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

Illuminatus
April 23rd, 2002, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Twig
It seems as if we have a few simerillian (sp) fans here! :D

No, my question is... would Gandalf have been a druid in the classical sense? Given the circumstances, and in the context of the story, could Gandalf fit the archtypical druid style? Or, would this be a man that the druids of today would want to emulate? Can we as druids look to this man as a figure we want to be like? Is is unobtainable? Is it a fitting model?

When I first read of this, I thought he WAS a druid.

Let us chew on that for a while.

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

Of course you thought he was one, you ARE one. Everyone sees the hero to be like themselves in epics. And LOTR gives us lots of heros to identify with.

Radagast the Brown, the other wizard, was supposed to be all nice and down with all the critters. He's the one who sent that giant moth to go talk to Gandalf and arranged his liberation with the Eagles. If there's a druid in the story, it's him.

Or, it could be Saruman. Yes, in the Two Towers you'll see that he was real buddy-buddy with Treebeard for the better part of an age, before he went sour. Then again, why not say that Treebeard is a druid, hell, he's damn talking walking tree with attitude.

- Ill

Twig
April 23rd, 2002, 10:45 AM
. Then again, why not say that Treebeard is a druid, hell, he's damn talking walking tree with attitude

The ENTS of course!!!!!! Good call.

Twig

Mythrel
May 6th, 2002, 05:04 PM
no way!!!

Run_With_Wolvez
June 3rd, 2002, 01:46 PM
I don't think so. :P

bansidhe
June 21st, 2002, 09:07 AM
i reckon he embodies the traits and attitudes that many druids wish to emulate...wise, caring, knowledgable of nature...etc

blessings,
bans. :bubbles:

bansidhe
June 21st, 2002, 09:09 AM
omg... i really chose the losing side!!! come on maybes!!! ;)

Maggie
June 28th, 2002, 12:26 AM
Hiya Twig.......

I never thought of Gandalf as a druid type because it was clear he wasn't a member of any of the societies portrayed. To me a druid is first and always a member of the culture.......

Regards,

Maggie

Lavender
June 28th, 2002, 03:52 AM
Maggie!!!! You're back! Really great to see you again! :)

Maggie
June 28th, 2002, 11:21 AM
Thank you! My life has 'de-stressed' a lot in the past few months and I have the time to relax now and do things for fun.......:D

Regards,

Maggie

*~*Chary*~*
August 7th, 2002, 02:37 PM
you know, twig, you remind me of gandalf, honestly. And the silmarillion is good too :)

mol
August 16th, 2002, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Maggie
Thank you! My life has 'de-stressed' a lot in the past few months and I have the time to relax now and do things for fun.......:D

Regards,

Maggie

Hmm. Did you skidaddle again?

Grey
September 2nd, 2002, 12:51 AM
Sorry.... when you read the series its the brown wizard who does the nature/ animal thing (dosent show up in the movie) Gandalf is pure wizard. he even says so.

:ack:

But (yes theres always a but) he is nice old guy who knows alot. he would make a great model for anyone with patience. as a model for druids I couldnt say dont know exactly what you consider druidic- me kinda ignaraunt.
As for the Ents there a race just like dwarves or elves.he dosent talk to trees these are well not completely botanicle I mean shoot the halflings talked to the ents!

manstranger
September 23rd, 2002, 07:27 PM
I know this is kind of offtopic, but what did each of the wizards specialise in? Or the lesser vala/r?

Maybe then, we could, uh .. get a better idea of each's relationship with animals and nature?

mol
September 27th, 2002, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by Maggie
Thank you! My life has 'de-stressed' a lot in the past few months and I have the time to relax now and do things for fun.......:D

Regards,

Maggie

And now where did you go?!

Maggie
September 27th, 2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by mol
And now where did you go?!

I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere......<she sings;)

I read a lot more than I post right now, Mol. Like to catch up on what's going on........


Regards,

Maggie

mol
September 30th, 2002, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Maggie
I'm here, I'm there, I'm everywhere......<she sings;)

I read a lot more than I post right now, Mol. Like to catch up on what's going on........


Regards,

Maggie

All righty....just checking. :D

Twig
May 1st, 2003, 04:08 PM
Take away a mods powers and even the site god goes off topic!!

Sheesh

Peace,
Twig
:elf:

Alvin24
November 10th, 2004, 03:00 PM
I know this is kind of offtopic, but what did each of the wizards specialise in? Or the lesser vala/r?

Maybe then, we could, uh .. get a better idea of each's relationship with animals and nature?

Gandalf specialized in magic that dealt with fire, smoke, and light.
Radaghast dealt with animal magic and beast speech.
Saruman mastered magic that allowed him to charm and dominate others, but he was also heavily into warfare.

Dave the Druid
November 10th, 2004, 05:01 PM
twig,
you old trouble maker! :LOL:

Druid=Wizard, Wizard=Druid?
I know Wiccans that think we're a shadowy lot. Wizards no.
Gandolf a Druid? Who do Druids go to first for help? Other Druids. Who was there to help him?

Grey
December 2nd, 2004, 02:13 AM
That would be... lets see, The elven nations and their powerful leaders who were most definitely magic users of some sort *then again it seems all elves had wee bit o skill there*, such as elrond, and the lady of the wood. And not to mention Radagast the brown, and Sauruman... he went to them for help. Those last two, if nothing else, were part of his order.

and what are you trying to say about wizards being shadowy? eh? ;)

Elf Maiden
December 8th, 2004, 11:57 PM
I've always understood Tolkien's Elves to be the Druids ~ I resonate with them so strongly! To me Gandalf represents Spirit.

KellyP
December 9th, 2004, 04:48 PM
I am no Tolkien scholar so I defer Gandalf's true nature to debate among others.

However, from my reading of the books as a teen and now having seen the movies, I definitely put Gandalf into the sorcerer/wizard caste. While I may have missed it at the movies, I never get a sense that Gandalf possesses a reverence for nature. He is certainly knowledgeable of the land and its peoples. But I think a druid of his stature would have invoked the sanctity of Middle-Earth more than is portrayed and been as outraged at the horrors of Sauron for what they brought to the land as much as to the people.

Wizard or druid, who cares? Gandalf Rox!!

Ron
December 9th, 2004, 05:05 PM
Yes. Gandalf I regard as something of a young Myrddin.

Sonic Seamus
December 9th, 2004, 05:47 PM
Meh. I think if anyone were Druidic it would be the elves. Poets, know their liniage(sp?), feel both the natural and spiritual worlds.

I dunno, Bards or Ovates maybe but the elves never really got involved with the other races until Sauron started his little rumble so the authority that druids had was not a trait of the elves.

Ron
December 25th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Meh. I think if anyone were Druidic it would be the elves. Poets, know their liniage(sp?), feel both the natural and spiritual worlds.

I dunno, Bards or Ovates maybe but the elves never really got involved with the other races until Sauron started his little rumble so the authority that druids had was not a trait of the elves.
JRR Tolkien's Elves are the children of the gods, in his lore.

nia
December 26th, 2004, 12:19 PM
in my opinion, and just in my opinion, he was a man who was connected with and observant of what was going on around him, especially in the earth, and he did what he could to make it better, usign whatever means he deemed appropriate - learning, wisdom, magic, weapons.

to me, he was a druid.

lightdragon
January 19th, 2005, 10:38 PM
i chose Gandalf as a druid.Mainly because i heard druids were often called wizards. Offhand I would say Gandalf would be a ceremonial magician. Radaghast would probably be ceremonial magician and a druid. I saw no druidical aspects per say from the Hobbit or the Ring triology.
Tolkien i believe was supposed to have put in christian concepts in the books.I never saw any.

Twig
April 17th, 2005, 07:20 PM
"Tolkien i believe was supposed to have put in christian concepts in the books.I never saw any."

Oh yeah they are there. The "ressurrection" of Gandalf after the fight with the Balrog. Sam and the others being Frodos disciples, blah blah yak yak It was a damn good piece of artistry IMO thats it.

My thoughts are that he actually leaned toward a druidic description of Gandalf because he comes from England and that would be the tradition he most likely heard about growing up....ummm remember he had no tv....or radio thinking about it. ;)

Peace
Twig
:elf:

Jenne
April 17th, 2005, 07:23 PM
My sil says Gandalf is a hippie. LOL I think she rather has a point.

Sonic Seamus
April 28th, 2005, 07:31 PM
"Tolkien i believe was supposed to have put in christian concepts in the books.

They said the same thing about Star Wars. :rolleyes:

I suppose any story involving the conflict between "good" and "evil" can be claimed in that sense.

Grey
April 29th, 2005, 01:21 AM
Yes but star wars, unlike LotR, has actualy sayings in it strait from the bible, not to mention George lucas himself said it was an allegory aswell as Sci-Fi.

odubhain
April 29th, 2005, 03:35 PM
Do you think Gandalf of TLotR is a druid?
Of course he is. Druids are also eternal spirits inhabiting bodies. Right now, my body is getting to be much more like Gandalf's every day that passes. :-)

Searles

monsnoleedra
February 5th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Wouldn't Tom Bomadril be the Druid? He is the one that is supposed to be another of the great one's but gave up his interaction for the forest. He is actually the first to free the Hobbits from a tree.

Their's even some speculation that is is stronger than all the other wizards but has forsaken humanity somewhat.

_Banbha_
March 28th, 2008, 09:42 AM
Dear Admins and Forum Guides,

I am at something of a loss as to why this thread is in "Paths: Druids, Celts and Celtic Christians" and not either the "Books" or "Poetry and Literature" Forums where it seems a more perfect fit.

There is another thread here about an odious book "The 21 Lessons of Merlin" that is also largely fiction but it does not advertise it self as such and the thread stands as warning or a place to debate that...not that I've seen much support for it.

But in this thread the OP (who I very much believe meant no harm) is asking a question about _Lord of the Rings Trilogy_. Last I heard, the Celts are a real people with varying and complex cultures, languages, and traditions, not to mention their our own literature and actual history. Please do not disrespect those things things with this thread's continued presence here.

I respectfully ask it be moved.

Étaín