weekly T & D #3

[Rudas Starblaze]

from the Book of Satan, chapter 1:4.

"I request reasons for your golden rule and the why and wherefore of your ten commandments."


this of course is attacking the ten commandment and the "be attitudes" etc. etc. of the holy bible. of course we all know by now that Levay wrote the SB to be the opposite of the HB. i have a feeling this will be a shorter discussion than the last one! lol

but have you ever wondered why the rules of the HB are truely set and why they are so strict? as its also writen in the holy bible, "all will fall short of the glory of God."

[Shanti]

IMO, why is the HB so set and strick? Control.

[Jess the Cat]

I think that the rules in the HB are strict because they suit the strictness of society at the time it was written. Things that were taboo back then are no longer (damn that book is need of an update). Plus I guess it gave the Hierarchy something to point back to when they believed they had the right to tell people what to do.

As for the quote "all will fall short of the glory of God", it was either written by someone who was so devoted that this was the writers honest opinion, or another way to give people the impression that no matter how they feel or what they achieve its nothing next to him upstairs.

[Stormbeard]

Basically, this line sets the entire premise of Satanism.

To warn you though, he does go on taking apart Christianity for the rest of the chapter.

[Rudas Starblaze]

I think that the rules in the HB are strict because they suit the strictness of society at the time it was written. Things that were taboo back then are no longer (damn that book is need of an update). Plus I guess it gave the Hierarchy something to point back to when they believed they had the right to tell people what to do.

As for the quote "all will fall short of the glory of God", it was either written by someone who was so devoted that this was the writers honest opinion, or another way to give people the impression that no matter how they feel or what they achieve its nothing next to him upstairs.

actually, having studied the HB for most of my life, you would be suprised at how much of the "modern" stuff actually went on back then. they didnt have the legal system we have nowadays that can screw a person over for the smallest things. they didnt have the forensic BS (which in my opinion IS BS), but they did have methodes of discovering the truth. i know this is going to go WAY off topic.... but for goodness sakes, queen cleopatra(sp) created the first vibrator, and that was how many thousand years ago? a wooden box filled with bees that she shook and held against her..... well, put two and two together.....

"all will fall short of the glory of God" was pretty much served as a warning to let everyone know that "we are sinners" and should strive to do the best we can according to God.....

but, what makes some of those commandments and be attitudes seem redundant? thats what im going for in this topic and discussion.

i know, damn me for being evil!:smoke:

[Cassie]

...but have you ever wondered why the rules of the HB are truely set and why they are so strict?


I think the 'rules' of the OT were established to keep the Hebrews seperate from other groups, cultures and religions of the time. I think they were quite logical within the context they were set in, and frankly many other religions have or had similar rules. I don't think they were especially strict for the time and culture they were set in.

You also mentioned The Beatitudes, but I don't see them as 'rules' at all, but rather ideals to aspire to. Personally I see them as one of the 'gems' of Christian beliefs.


but, what makes some of those commandments and be attitudes seem redundant? thats what im going for in this topic and discussion.


I think some of the ten comandments are redundent simply because the times have changed. Others are obviously redundent to those of us who don't believe in the Christian/Jewish monotheistic concept of God. But some of their basic warnings against murder and deceit still have relevence.
As for the Beatitudes; I think they contain some eternal wisdom, as do various texts from many other religions.

My problem with Satanism is that because it seems to oppose everything about Christianity on principle; it dismisses a lot of good stuff. Moreover it seems trapped by it's relationship with Christianity; without being in opposition to Christianity it doesn't seem to have much to hold it together. For example, the whole theme of this thread would seem to be redundent if you don't have a pathological opposition to Christian beliefs. To put it another way, would it be possible for Satanism to exist at all without Christianity to rebell against? Can Satanism exist without reference to Christianity?


but for goodness sakes, queen cleopatra(sp) created the first vibrator, and that was how many thousand years ago? a wooden box filled with bees that she shook and held against her..... well, put two and two together.....
I have no idea where that fits into this thread but anyway it just goes to show you can never underestimate Egyptian ingenuity! I am glad we have invented batteries meanwhile though! ;) :smoke:

[Rudas Starblaze]

I am glad we have invented batteries meanwhile though! ;) :smoke:


everything else was good stuff Cassie, but this *points up* is TMI!!!:lol:
_wedgie_

[Morr]

Y-H-V-H began as a tribal God.

Aberaham was part of this tribe and he took this God to make him his own personal tribal God. As time passed and Aberaham's children and family grew into one big tribe that settled in one area/land, Y-H-V-H became a tribal God ANd a sovreign/land God.

So to the ancient Hebrews/Jews, he was IT. The only God they worshiped and who was important to them.

The commandment -- You shall not put other Gods before me -- does NOT dismiss the EXISTANCE of other Deities, but simply says -- If you want to devote yourselves to me, better make me your #1.

I know several Deities who do the same, including my own patron, The Morrigan. It is not an unusual request from a Deity.

However, as the years and ages passed, and the Judeo-Christian way became the controlling way (especially through Christianity), Y-H-V-H became the ONLY existing valid force/Deity, the only opmnipotant (sp?) power.

That is where, in my opinion, things went wrong.

As for the other commandments, again, a Deity that requests his/her woshippers for a certain code of conduct, or a certain type or worship is not unusual at the least. Also, these commandments and the rest of the laws in the Old Testament come out of a specific culture, in a specific geographical location, with a specific history and specific sociological aspects.

Don't forget, Christianity picked apart the OT and its laws, and took whatever it felt like it. For example Kosher Laws. Christians do not keep them, however, Jews do and these laws date back to as early as the 10 commandments. They came as sociological ideals for dietery needs of the time, and living healthy at the time.

Most of those commandments, or set of moral codes, do exist in other ancient cultures in one variation or another.

I think LeVey just wanted to piss Christians off, frankly. The role of Satan represents a lot of things, yes. it is one thing to use his character as a metaphor for a code of conduct or a set of ideals (independence, rebellion, etc). It is another to use this base of ideals as a means of creating something to soley bash or mock another religion.

That is, at least for me, my impression of Satanism.

Don't get me wrong, I am all about independence of the mind and body, rebellion and putting yourself first (along the correct, legal context). But I don't see why one must feed off of another religion for the sake of pissing others off or mocking it, or attempting to prove it wrong somehow.


Just my 2 cents.

[Shatril]

Interesting information there Morr, thanks.

As for the discussion questions, that is so obvious as to not even require much of a comment.

However, I do believe that the HB has been so misinterpreted, and misused that it is pathetic. I believe that the original intent was for it to be more of a personal growth teaching than the leading of churches. Another discussion entirely.

This also, does scream of the believe nothing unless it rings true for you advice though.

Shatril

[Stormbeard]

I think LeVey just wanted to piss Christians off, frankly. The role of Satan represents a lot of things, yes. it is one thing to use his character as a metaphor for a code of conduct or a set of ideals (independence, rebellion, etc). It is another to use this base of ideals as a means of creating something to soley bash or mock another religion.

Satanism is not solely for the purposes of blasphemy. I am a Satanist without any ill will towards any other religion.

The Satanic Bible contains a lot of of anti-Christianity (rather than anti-christian) ideals and statements, but why not?
Has Christianity ever held out a hand of friendship to other religions?

[Shatril]

Basically, this line sets the entire premise of Satanism.

To warn you though, he does go on taking apart Christianity for the rest of the chapter.

Is this SB followed by all Satanists, or is it viewed as a sharp stick in the eye of Christians?

[David19]

Is this SB followed by all Satanists, or is it viewed as a sharp stick in the eye of Christians?

I didn't think the Satanic Bible was followed by all Satanists. Like I think Theistic Satanists don't really agree with all of it, or only read it out of interest.

And, the Temple of Set, I don't think, follows the SB, they're on a different path.

[Stormbeard]

Is this SB followed by all Satanists, or is it viewed as a sharp stick in the eye of Christians?

It is like the King James Bible to a Christadelphian. While there are parts of it that are spot on, there are others which are simply irrelevant or misunderstood.