A little Paganism in your spare time...

[AuroraWillow]

Being raised in an atheist household, when I recently started getting interested in different religion, Paganism especially, it's been difficult to know how to make the transition from non-believer to believer. I realized, after the fact, that for a while I've been treating religion like a hobby - I'm interested when its convenient for me, and certain activities associated with religion seem more "fun" than devotional. I know enough to know that this is definitely not the right way to go about things, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I simply don't know how to treat it any other way.
Does anyone have any advice on how I can break out of this view and maybe move into something more...meaningful?

[Windsmith]

Why isn't that the right way to go about it? Spirituality shouldn't be drudgery; a religion that's somber all the time is a religion that's just not worth my time. There's plenty of meaning and meaningfulness is fun - in what my wife calls "sacred silliness." Go on; have fun; see where your path leads you. As long as you feel like your practice helps you grow, like it's helping you to be in right relationship with the world and to understand the world and your place in it, I'd say you're on the right track.

[AuroraWillow]

When I say "fun", I don't really mean silly. I mean it in more of an "inconsequential" type way. I seem to want to treat religion as something that I do, like knitting, or playing computer games, rather than something that's always just a part of my life. I feel sort of like the younger kids that "play" at being Pagan, and then find some other game to play when it's not fun anymore. And, I know that's not what I want. :)
And, strangely enough, I seem to pay more attention to religion (reading, meditating, and posting things like this) when I'm PMSing. I don't know if that means anything lol.

[Nitefalle]

Something that may help is doing a small devotional every day. I used to do that and it really helped me to see the spiritual IN my every day life, whether I was focusing on it or not. I would say a little prayer in the shower every day (my only true alone time) - I got the prayer from The Circle Within, by Diane Sylvan. Even though it's meant for Wiccans, it's a really great book on how to build devotional practices. The prayer basically asked the gods to help me see their beauty in all things, feel their touch and hear their voices throughout the day.

I also do little things that have carried over from my childhood. For instance, growing up my Catholic mother always said a Hail Mary whenever she saw an ambulance (and she still does). I picked this up from her, but tailored it to my spirituality. I follow a Celtic path, so I say a short prayer to Brighid and Belisana, to send healing to those in need and give mercy to those in pain. Whenever I see roadkill, I say a short prayer to Arduina. Little things like these add up until you have a pattern of actions and thought that supplement the mundane moments and weave them all together into a whole.

[TempestDra]

Do it anyway.:) At least, as long as something remains interesting, stick with it! Even if it is only just a hobby. You don't lose anything if you find out later on that it wasn't for you, and in the meantime you may well figure out what would fit you better.

I was raised as an atheist as well, so not only am I still learning all this devotional attitude stuff, I sometimes feel incredibly silly. And sometimes, it seems like I'm filling out things in my BoS for the sake of "collecting" information, instead of actually believing. I really picked this up as a hobby first, but the rest came after. I wouldn't have stayed interested if I hadn't been able to point at specific instances in my life during which I could point at the world around me and go: "THIS. This is totally holy somehow." The spiritual attitude followed after I started exploring that sensation more. Now it's just second nature for me to look at all the flowers outside and not just go, "Neat, spring!" but also go, "Wow...Spring," and feel an overwhelming sense of awe.

[cheddarsox]

I'm not sure how long you've been at this. At first, I was attracted to some of the practices, without understanding what it was all about. Participating helped me "get" it, where it began to be real to me at a deeper level, and became integrated into more and more of my daily life.

For me, the process was organic, in that I didn't force it. There are holidays that I totally couldn't relate to years ago, that are now deeply meaningful for me. There are still some holidays that I don't get into...I guess I'm not there yet, or that there are other things I need more.

I longed for a faith that I could practice authentically, and I have one. No more going through the motions, my heart is deeply into it. I do it because it is real to me.

If you have been at it a long time, and don't feel a deep authentic connection...maybe it is not where your heart is. If you've not been at it very long, give it time and see how it develops.

cheddar

[Nitefalle]

And sometimes, it seems like I'm filling out things in my BoS for the sake of "collecting" information, instead of actually believing.


Oh man, I was totally guilty of that!!! LOL My first year in college, I completely took advantage of our superfast internet connection and being able to print tons of pages for free and I just printed everything I could and saved it to a disk and also handwrote a lot of stuff in some notebook I can't even find anymore (I may have thrown it out). I put stuff in a binder I still have and every once in awhile, I like to take it out and look at it and smile to myself, wondering what I was up to. I was so convinced that I NEEDED all that information in order to be a "real" practicing Pagan. Wow, I haven't thought about that in awhile :hahugh:

[Semele]

Being raised in an atheist household, when I recently started getting interested in different religion, Paganism especially, it's been difficult to know how to make the transition from non-believer to believer.

The ironic opposition of your statement to that of my own is astonishing. I was always raised to Believe and recently discovered that I just don't. Oddly enough my friend we have had the same experiences with religion. I think most folks tend to use religion in the manner you described. Then they feel guilty for not being 100% devoted , thereby instilling guilt and the need to go back to church and pray...its a nice cycle of self perpetuating meaningfulness set up within the human psyche to get us the comfort we need from the most readily available source. Religion.

[-Sky-]

I can relate to you AuroraWillow!I was not raised atheist,but Christian Orthodox though. I am not a very active Pagan due to every day life that keeps getting in the way and my procrastination. So i do rituals and meditations only when i really feel connected. I know how you feel,i also feel that i am not very devoted and that i am missing the every day contact with my deities. But in the end,as other people said it is not that bad.
There are so many little and easy things you can do to stay in touch with your spirituality!:) You don't need to celebrate the sabbats with a ritual,you can just silently revere and honour. So at first do small things like Nitefalle suggested. Take a walk to the forest/park/countryside,light a candle every night,spent some minutes meditating or honouring the divine,drink herbal tea or hold a crystal in your hand,listen to celtic music.

I would like to talk more about that with you so pm me sometime.:)
Blessings,
~Anna

[Toby Stimpson]

Being raised in an atheist household, when I recently started getting interested in different religion, Paganism especially, it's been difficult to know how to make the transition from non-believer to believer. I realized, after the fact, that for a while I've been treating religion like a hobby - I'm interested when its convenient for me, and certain activities associated with religion seem more "fun" than devotional. I know enough to know that this is definitely not the right way to go about things, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I simply don't know how to treat it any other way.
Does anyone have any advice on how I can break out of this view and maybe move into something more...meaningful?

I can definitively relate to that! Although my parents are Athiests, or agnostics... either way they're not very strong church goers :p ... I never really grew up around religion, except in school (but I grew up in Wales where the Church of England is tied a little bit with public schools).

So when I started to become spiritual and gained more and more self confidence... I did begin seeing things somewhat like a Hobby. I didn't believe sometimes because at times it didn't fit in with my life. Then I would became a believer again :p. I think because I was not necessarily understanding what I was reading, that subconsciously it was easy to become confused and confusion was a BIG throw back, you know? When I started to take things more slowly, in my reading and putting things and connections together.. essentially working from the ground up, I started to become less doubtful. But, I mean there is one thing to the intellectual that is a curse really, and that is that it is easy to become doubtful. So really, i accepted that my religion is not one based on faith but based on Theology... and in that way my religion is an Intellectuals religion, which just so happens to be my hobby as well. maybe it's not a bad thing? :)

Namaste

Tobias

[-Sky-]

But, I mean there is one thing to the intellectual that is a curse really, and that is that it is easy to become doubtful.

I really agree!But i see it as a curse and a blessing. Because doubting a little is essential to eventually finding the truth. But doubts and insecurity can be great obstacles to magic and especially Paganism that deals with what we call the supernatural.

[Toby Stimpson]

I really agree!But i see it as a curse and a blessing. Because doubting a little is essential to eventually finding the truth. But doubts and insecurity can be great obstacles to magic and especially Paganism that deals with what we call the supernatural.

Ahh true, but you see... doubt drives us to seek answers, or a better understanding. Once someone understand the simple myths and their place in the religion... they move more and more away from legend and into Philosophy... and when that happens, it is very hard to go back to the faith you see in everyone else... instead you gain your own faith, but not in the metaphors, but the essence of the meanings. This is the curse becasue we can no longer bask in the same simple mystery as others... becasue we gain a better grasp and understanding on the mystery behind the veil. I am not a religious Pagan, I am a social Pagan.... in my own lookings into the Religion of the world.. I chose religions that had a huge number of philosophical schools... but I know that I cannot be just simply devotional on the same level as some others... I have my own way, but it causes doubt for me sometimes becasue i forget that I have my own way, and I instead become doubtful of my place becasue I compare my way to more simple methods. Do you know what I mean?

[lamoka]

What is a social pagan compared to a religious pagan??
namaste

[Toby Stimpson]

What is a social pagan compared to a religious pagan??
namaste

Its a term I just made up :). Basically... I don't belong to a Pagan tradition (I'm Hindu and Buddhist... and well, a mix of many other things), but I once was and I identify as a Pagan... I also take part in Pagan festivals and am knowledgeable about Paganism...so, as opposed to a religious Pagan, Im a social Pagan becasue I am a part of the Pagan subculture.

Its almost like being a social Jew and a non religious Jew.... being part of the culture but not taking part in the religious aspect.

[lamoka]

:) Got it!!!
namaste

[-Sky-]

Ahh true, but you see... doubt drives us to seek answers, or a better understanding. Once someone understand the simple myths and their place in the religion... they move more and more away from legend and into Philosophy... and when that happens, it is very hard to go back to the faith you see in everyone else... instead you gain your own faith, but not in the metaphors, but the essence of the meanings. This is the curse becasue we can no longer bask in the same simple mystery as others... becasue we gain a better grasp and understanding on the mystery behind the veil. I am not a religious Pagan, I am a social Pagan.... in my own lookings into the Religion of the world.. I chose religions that had a huge number of philosophical schools... but I know that I cannot be just simply devotional on the same level as some others... I have my own way, but it causes doubt for me sometimes becasue i forget that I have my own way, and I instead become doubtful of my place becasue I compare my way to more simple methods. Do you know what I mean?

Yes!:) You seem like someone who has soulsearched a lot and have the intellect to prove it. I am very much into Philosophy myself and sometimes even without realising it i combine it with my spirituality. But i like being a religious Pagan,wish i could be more. The Old Ways have an incredible charm and the mysteries are beautiful to be experienced as mysteries. You see when you are a social Pagan(if i understand the term hehe) you miss some of the great magic. But on the other hand i admire you because you are knowledgable and although you dispelled some myths and legend you still believe.

[Toby Stimpson]

Yes!:) You seem like someone who has soulsearched a lot and have the intellect to prove it.

Thankyou :)... knowing yourself better takes away distraction to knowing other things I like to think.


I am very much into Philosophy myself and sometimes even without realising it i combine it with my spirituality.

Well, thats the interesting thing... a friend of mine once said while we were having a debate: there are three parts to religion; Ritual, Myth/legend, and Philosophy/Theology. All these three are vital to the growth and survival of a religion, both in people's hearts and in the world at large. Ritual is the physical way of acting out the ideas of the religion... Myth/Legend is a convenient and sometimes crucial way of basing the ideas of the religion on something... philosophy is how the religion grows and changes. All these three things are vital, and also in some ways hold truth to them. So Philosophy and Spirituality are actually, in my mind, both very compatible twins.


But i like being a religious Pagan,wish i could be more. The Old Ways have an incredible charm and the mysteries are beautiful to be experienced as mysteries. You see when you are a social Pagan(if i understand the term hehe) you miss some of the great magic.

Well... I've moved on to something else you see... but many of the things I find in my current traditions can be found in paganism, I'm sure, but just in different ways. For me, they work much better and I can fully give myself over to them. Like I'm a social Pagan because I suppose I feel Im learning the same things as Pagans are... just in a different way. When you get right down to it, religion is about the Human condition now. before it may have been only about upholding social law, or even just holding up the universe through meaningless ritual... butt, religions today and a large few of the past all saught to answer the basic questions about existence, and they all came to the same answers... those answers are only masked by cultural differences.


But on the other hand i admire you because you are knowledgable and although you dispelled some myths and legend you still believe.

Well, it's not so much dispelled myths and legends... its more, looked through at their essence of what they meant. I mean, for example... christmas time, someone tells you that Santa Clause/Father Christmas gives gifts to good children. Its a myth yes, but it has power... it'll make the child think about being a good child... that translates into not being a naughty child. The child grows up, just based on the myth of santa clause, as a good person (well in theory that is :p)... the myth has power, and the MYTH has a very important place.

I still believe in the myths, partly becasue they have their place but also because they act as a focus. Myths are always told as stories... people like stories becasue it brings God closer to them. When they see their deities in situations that are very human like situations, it makes them feel closer to that God that at the same time is reputed to have taught the philosophical aspect of that religious tradition. Although the legends might sometimes be over the top, they are pleasent for the Human mind.

[-Sky-]

knowing yourself better takes away distraction to knowing other things I like to think.
What do you mean?Can you explain that a little more?



Well, thats the interesting thing... a friend of mine once said while we were having a debate: there are three parts to religion; Ritual, Myth/legend, and Philosophy/Theology. All these three are vital to the growth and survival of a religion, both in people's hearts and in the world at large. Ritual is the physical way of acting out the ideas of the religion... Myth/Legend is a convenient and sometimes crucial way of basing the ideas of the religion on something... philosophy is how the religion grows and changes. All these three things are vital, and also in some ways hold truth to them. So Philosophy and Spirituality are actually, in my mind, both very compatible twins.
I'll have to save that.lol I have not made such an organised thought about what religion consists of but it is very true!


I still believe in the myths, partly becasue they have their place but also because they act as a focus. Myths are always told as stories... people like stories becasue it brings God closer to them. When they see their deities in situations that are very human like situations, it makes them feel closer to that God that at the same time is reputed to have taught the philosophical aspect of that religious tradition. Although the legends might sometimes be over the top, they are pleasent for the Human mind.
So do you see myths as allegoric and symbolic and not as actual events that happened once upon a time?I know it is not very intellectual but sometimes i find myself believing that some myths and legends happened in a far away time.

[Toby Stimpson]

So do you see myths as allegoric and symbolic and not as actual events that happened once upon a time?I know it is not very intellectual but sometimes i find myself believing that some myths and legends happened in a far away time.


You know, I havnt fully decided yet. Because I'm still growing up and experiancing pains and struggles like debt and tuition and stress from University, etc, etc,. I cant say that I only think all myths are allegory. Myth and legend are ways to keep history alive, especially in cultures with no writing system. So I might say that I think some myth is purely allegory meant to tell a moral lesson, and others I might say are embelleshed with some grain of truth.

You see, as a rational mind I KNOW that a monster 100 leagues tall could not have existed on this planet say 10 000 years ago to battle, lets say Zeus. BUT, theres many layers to dimension and reality, so who is to say that in one reality, these beings we call Gods arre not battling things, or living out the legends we find in mythology? I mean truth is I LOVE mythology, you look at my bookshelf and it's chock full of world mythology from north American, to Japanese, and all the way between. So I cant really say I have formed a definite opinion, and perhaps its better to say that its a spectrum? Even if mytrhs were mere allegory, they are still very important to religion... a religion without any mythology surrounding it, or the main people/spirits in it wouldnt catch the attention of the Human mind because it would bee 'boring' lol.

[-Sky-]

BUT, theres many layers to dimension and reality, so who is to say that in one reality, these beings we call Gods arre not battling things, or living out the legends we find in mythology? I mean truth is I LOVE mythology, you look at my bookshelf and it's chock full of world mythology from north American, to Japanese, and all the way between.

These is what i believe as well!:) There are so many pararell realities,different dimensions and planes of existance. It is very likely that the stories of these myths happened not in Earth but in this realms not easi ly accessible to us nowadays.
I love mythology too!!!*thumbs up* Which is your favourite?Lately i've been very interested in the Kitsune spirits of Japanese mythology.

[Toby Stimpson]

These is what i believe as well!:) There are so many pararell realities,different dimensions and planes of existance. It is very likely that the stories of these myths happened not in Earth but in this realms not easi ly accessible to us nowadays.
I love mythology too!!!*thumbs up* Which is your favourite?Lately i've been very interested in the Kitsune spirits of Japanese mythology.

About the parralel realities and different dimensions. It amkes more sense to me for something like that to have occured and maybe somehow affecte dour reality. But also I think it makes sense in a different way because we mostly know that there are different planes of consciousness... and if we percieve a natural event in a different or alternative state of consciousness, we dont know what we might be able to see. The energy of a volcano exploding might be just a volcano, but through different eyes there may be a relationship between the energy movement in the natural event and the energy movement ina higher plane between entities. Its one of thsoe interesting things... but I suppose it's a complete cop out, becasue it allows me to both see things and non literill in our physical universe, but also as perhaps actual events :p.... such a hypocrasy!

On the mythology note. See, Mythology to me is filled with lessons and all sorts of great things. I think people oftyen dismiss it...but you can learn a LOT from mythology. When I first started becoming interested it was when iw as like 14/15 and I imagined myself like a little Giles from Buffy with all his books on Monsters and spirits from around the world. And so i just kept to it. Its also one of the building blocks i think to understand a religion too, becasue once you're familiar with the mythology...you don't become as confused when eading the philosophy or sacred texts when an allegory or allusion to mythology pops up :p.

So far Ive studied Hindu mythology to death, Greek Mythology I dabbled in, Egyptian and are just starting Japanese. It depends what resources I have available at my hands. I dunno, its fascinating stuff... folklore is really cool too, becasue after a while you really can see patterns.