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View Full Version : Helping those who won't help themselves



Iris
April 26th, 2007, 02:16 PM
What do you do with someone who doesn't seem to wanna deal with their problems?

I have a friend, who has some very serious issues...I won't go into the details, but he basically had a very difficult, messed up childhood, and seems to have finally come to the realisation that he has some serious emotional problems left over from that time. I have suggested counselling to him, time and time again, yet he never seems to pick up on the suggestion. He has difficulty vocalising what he feels, so maybe this is the reason. Then again, there could be a shame issue with relating some of his past experiences...and shame is a very powerful emotion to overcome. Like many abused children, I think he partly still blames himself for what he went through, and I don't think there's a way to make him realise it's NOT his fault...I'm hardly a professional counsellor, and I really feel he needs to TALK about this stuff, with someone who knows what they are doing/saying. He's never even told me all of it, not by a long way. I'd be willing to listen, if he wanted to tell me, but again, I think there's a huge shame issue in the way...I also get the sense that he's almost...I dunno if this makes sense...protective of his pain...?? Does anyone know what I mean? Almost like he feels 'This is MY pain and you can't share it, so there.' Almost as if...he doesn't quite WANT to let go of it, or doesn't know how...or something. I'm not entirely sure...it's just a weird impression that I get...

I feel like this person has spent so long living in survival mode that he doesn't really know any other way. His emotional responses to...EVERYTHING...are abnormal. He's hyper-defensive when there's no need to be, quick to feel vulnerable over the slightest thing and consequently lash out. This has led most people who know him to totally withdraw from him. They don't want to tolerate his defensive, easily-angered and vindictive behaviour. And I understand that. I'm one of the few who refuses to be driven away, because I see this for what it is - a defensive reaction that means nothing. I wonder if he TRIES to drive people away sometimes, maybe because he feels unworthy of having friends, or ashamed, or 'tainted' by his past, or something like that? I'm not entirely sure. Goddess knows it wouldn't be the first time he's said something to me like 'And if you never want to speak to me again, I understand...' he will say this with a defiant air, almost bravado, almost like he's obscurely proud of being so damn prickly...but the bravado isn't the whole story. I refuse to be driven away, and end up another person who proves his distorted views about himself. I understand some of how he feels, because I have some similar defensive mechanisms myself, although definitely not as extreme as his. So, I won't be manipulated by his personal demons into abandoning him. It's not always easy not to walk away, but for whatever reason, I feel bound to this person and so, I endure... :)

It's recently come to my attention that he's realised (and it took long enough) that his responses to things aren't quite normal. For the first time he'd doing some specific thinking about what he feels, and why, and what the reasons behind his behaviour are...and he's not dealing with the introspection well. He's turning completely inward, resorting to alcohol most of the time to numb the pain. I won't see him go down this route. I want to see him deal with these revelations in a healthy and productive way, and to grow from them...because I feel his growth as a person has been held back for many years by his 'survival mode' emotional stance, and by refusing to confront his issues and deal with them in any real sense. I want to see him manifest his pain in a healthy manner, not by substance abuse...and when the time is right, I want to see him let go of this burden he should never have had to carry in the first place. It's true that for a long time, I've had the attitude that I wanted to help 'fix him'. But I know that the changes will only stick if he does the major part of the work himself. How do I make him see that he has to stop his downward spiral, and use his new-found insights productively, as a means to heal the problems, instead of letting them get him down like this? How do I get him to talk to someone about it? I know that I can't 'make' someone do something they don't wanna do. But I care for this person and don't wanna see him ruin himself through drink and sadness...

Thoughts? :(

Shanti
April 26th, 2007, 02:31 PM
Well, what you think, what you want, what you hope for are really irrelevant and of little help to your friend.
What your friend thinks, what your friend wants, what your friend hopes for are what matters for your friend.
The reason I point this out is because of your post. Very passionate and caring for sure, but if your talking to your friend with a lot of, I wish, I want , I, I , I.....its probably not going to do much good.
Helping your friend with finding his/her own wants, thoughts and hopes is what will be more fruitful.

And counselors are not for everyone. Pushing something, someone isn't ready or wants to do is only going to create walls.

Be a friend as its obvious you are and care very much. Thats the best thing you can do.

Sometimes you cant help people. It happens. It happen to me. I spent years trying to be a friend and help someone. Finally it was so obvious that his self destructive path was going to be walked, I backed off. Theres nothing that can be done when someone wants to walk the rough road. Thank the spirits, years later, several jail terms later, he finally woke up and now has a good life.

Some people just have to hit bottom before they can climb up.
Sometimes that the only way they can find the strength they need.
I hope this isn't the case with your friend.
I wish you both the best.

Willow Rosette
April 26th, 2007, 02:35 PM
I dont know if this helps but I have my own pains that I kinda feel I cant let go of becuse I deserve them... If I let go of them then Im not taking responsibility for my actions kinda. Even if he isnt actually responsible he might feel this way. :hugz:

Iris
April 26th, 2007, 02:54 PM
Well, what you think, what you want, what you hope for are really irrelevant and of little help to your friend.
What your friend thinks, what your friend wants, what your friend hopes for are what matters for your friend.
The reason I point this out is because of your post. Very passionate and caring for sure, but if your talking to your friend with a lot of, I wish, I want , I, I , I.....its probably not going to do much good.
Helping your friend with finding his/her own wants, thoughts and hopes is what will be more fruitful.

Thank you, Shanti...this is what I needed to hear, I think. I've become aware that my feelings about this are for some reason very much tangled up with 'How can *I* help?' 'Why won't he talk to *ME*?' I'm not sure entirely why that is...but it hit me last night that it doesn't matter WHO helps, as long as someone does, and it doesn't have to be 'me' who 'saves' him...I think I had a bit of a superhero delusion going on. But I truly do want what's best for him, and if I'm not part of that equation, then so be it...

I can't think of a solution that doesn't involve talking the problems out, and getting to the root of them and addressing THAT. It seems to me that if he's been living with these issues for most of his life (about 25 years!) and they haven't been resolved yet, then maybe he needs a helping hand to resolve them effectively. A lot depends on finding a good counsellor, too...I speak from experience! If he wants to do the work himself, who am I to tell him he can't? But I really feel he would benefit from the advice of a professional. But maybe I'm projecting what *I* want on to him...ah crap, I'm trying to be helpful and I'm just coming across as overbearing... :(

Part of the reason I'm so upset by this entire thing is that I, too, have seen people go down the 'bad road'. I've seen them go, and never come back. I had a pretty terrible experience last year with someone in my family who did just that. I don't want my friend to be the next one. :(

Shanti
April 26th, 2007, 03:45 PM
Just remember you can try...but try is all. If he doesn't want to receive your help and care, he wont. I hope he comes around though. I didn't give up on my friend till he was arrested the second time. I couldn't let myself get torn up emotionally anymore. So I understand the level of concern. Remember even if it seems like your not helping and he still chooses the rough road, you may have helped but it might not show till later.
My friend came back to thank me because some of what I said and did, stayed deep inside and did help him later on.
So some of your effort may be deep inside your friend.
Keep up the hope.
~hugs~

mithrilmoon
April 26th, 2007, 04:00 PM
What do you do with someone who doesn't seem to wanna deal with their problems?

I have a friend, who has some very serious issues...I won't go into the details, but he basically had a very difficult, messed up childhood, and seems to have finally come to the realisation that he has some serious emotional problems left over from that time. I have suggested counselling to him, time and time again, yet he never seems to pick up on the suggestion. He has difficulty vocalising what he feels, so maybe this is the reason. Then again, there could be a shame issue with relating some of his past experiences...and shame is a very powerful emotion to overcome. Like many abused children, I think he partly still blames himself for what he went through, and I don't think there's a way to make him realise it's NOT his fault...I'm hardly a professional counsellor, and I really feel he needs to TALK about this stuff, with someone who knows what they are doing/saying. He's never even told me all of it, not by a long way. I'd be willing to listen, if he wanted to tell me, but again, I think there's a huge shame issue in the way...I also get the sense that he's almost...I dunno if this makes sense...protective of his pain...?? Does anyone know what I mean? Almost like he feels 'This is MY pain and you can't share it, so there.' Almost as if...he doesn't quite WANT to let go of it, or doesn't know how...or something. I'm not entirely sure...it's just a weird impression that I get...

I feel like this person has spent so long living in survival mode that he doesn't really know any other way. His emotional responses to...EVERYTHING...are abnormal. He's hyper-defensive when there's no need to be, quick to feel vulnerable over the slightest thing and consequently lash out. This has led most people who know him to totally withdraw from him. They don't want to tolerate his defensive, easily-angered and vindictive behaviour. And I understand that. I'm one of the few who refuses to be driven away, because I see this for what it is - a defensive reaction that means nothing. I wonder if he TRIES to drive people away sometimes, maybe because he feels unworthy of having friends, or ashamed, or 'tainted' by his past, or something like that? I'm not entirely sure. Goddess knows it wouldn't be the first time he's said something to me like 'And if you never want to speak to me again, I understand...' he will say this with a defiant air, almost bravado, almost like he's obscurely proud of being so damn prickly...but the bravado isn't the whole story. I refuse to be driven away, and end up another person who proves his distorted views about himself. I understand some of how he feels, because I have some similar defensive mechanisms myself, although definitely not as extreme as his. So, I won't be manipulated by his personal demons into abandoning him. It's not always easy not to walk away, but for whatever reason, I feel bound to this person and so, I endure... :)

It's recently come to my attention that he's realised (and it took long enough) that his responses to things aren't quite normal. For the first time he'd doing some specific thinking about what he feels, and why, and what the reasons behind his behaviour are...and he's not dealing with the introspection well. He's turning completely inward, resorting to alcohol most of the time to numb the pain. I won't see him go down this route. I want to see him deal with these revelations in a healthy and productive way, and to grow from them...because I feel his growth as a person has been held back for many years by his 'survival mode' emotional stance, and by refusing to confront his issues and deal with them in any real sense. I want to see him manifest his pain in a healthy manner, not by substance abuse...and when the time is right, I want to see him let go of this burden he should never have had to carry in the first place. It's true that for a long time, I've had the attitude that I wanted to help 'fix him'. But I know that the changes will only stick if he does the major part of the work himself. How do I make him see that he has to stop his downward spiral, and use his new-found insights productively, as a means to heal the problems, instead of letting them get him down like this? How do I get him to talk to someone about it? I know that I can't 'make' someone do something they don't wanna do. But I care for this person and don't wanna see him ruin himself through drink and sadness...

Thoughts? :(


He sounds like someone I once knew intimately. People who react abnormally to others and situations, who are lost in pain and who deal out even greater pain to others, need to want to change. As a previous poster commented, unless your friend recognises the need to seek help, and he consciously wishes to break these destructive patterns of behaviour - whatever their cause - nothing will happen, longterm.

I hope he will find the strength to DO something about all of this.

Annorah
April 26th, 2007, 05:43 PM
Positive energies sent for you and your friend.

Ultimately, it is HIS decision on whether to get help or not - all you can do is to be supportive and be there for him.

:hugz: