PDA

View Full Version : Prosecute parents who allow children to drink at home?



Cassie
April 27th, 2007, 04:46 AM
Parents who give alcohol to children aged under 15 should be prosecuted, a charity has said.

The call comes in an Alcohol Concern report on the government's Alcohol Harm Reduction Strategy.

The charity would include meal times at home in the ban on giving alcohol to young people.

Alcohol Concern also wants a 16% rise in alcohol taxes, a ban on brewers selling to retailers at a loss, and a crackdown on under-age alcohol sales.
Details here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6596515.stm)

Any thoughts about this? Britain certainly does have a huge under age drinking problem but I am not sure this is the right way to approach the problem, although something sure should be done about this problem. The streets of many English towns are quite ugly with drunken yobs at some times of the night...

I grew up drinking wine with my parents at meal times.But then again, my family always was a bit more European in outlook. In my opinion I developed a more mature attitude to alcohol as a result. . I do get drunk occationally but I have never been a binge drinker.

Lunar Raven
April 27th, 2007, 05:05 AM
Eh I'm not sure. I don't think parents should be giving their kids alcohol or drugs personally. I know some parents who actually smoke weed with their kids...and I just think that's messed up..and definitely encourages problematic behavior. It's not to say if someone gives their kid a glass of wine every now and then they'll become alcoholics, but it really isn't necessary. So..I guess I can say that I'm not exactly against the idea of prosecuting parents for giving alcohol to their kids. Afterall, underage drinking is illegal.

Tanya
April 27th, 2007, 06:50 AM
kids don't get drunk in front of there parets having a glass of wine at dinner.. they do it sneaking.. and nothing makes a kid a sneak like feeling they are doing the forbidden

pawnman
April 27th, 2007, 07:54 AM
We don't need to arrest parents who let their kids have wine with dinner. You'd end up arresting most of France and the better part of Germany. I DO agree that parents should not host parties where their kids bring FRIENDS to drink. But arresting parents for any alcohol whatsoever? Get a life...these kids already have one set of parents.

Renny
April 27th, 2007, 07:58 AM
I don't see whats wrong with having a wine or a beer with your parents at dinner. Then again my mother is german, heh. She always tells me that its a whole different story over in germany. It's just something that families do together.

ap Dafydd
April 27th, 2007, 08:12 AM
Big Brother comes to the dining table.

How are parents supposed to teach kids the responsible use of alcohol if not by sensible use at home.

Sounds like another miserable little killjoy with a white coat and a mouth like a cat's bum is having another go at the pleasurable things in life.

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

AmericanMe
April 27th, 2007, 08:15 AM
LOL. I was 8 when I got shitfaced for the first time. My mom was hosting party and the punch made me feel good. :lol: I'm not a drunk, and the worst part of it was how pissed my mom was. I'd be alot worse off if she had been arrested, and I was put into the emotional nutroll of being a ward of the state.

This idea is ridiculous. These people need to mind their own business.

Wolfpoet
April 27th, 2007, 08:22 AM
LOL. I was 8 when I got shitfaced for the first time. My mom was hosting party and the punch made me feel good. :lol: I'm not a drunk, and the worst part of it was how pissed my mom was. I'd be alot worse off if she had been arrested, and I was put into the emotional nutroll of being a ward of the state.

This idea is ridiculous. These people need to mind their own business.

'shitfaced'

'pissed'

You sound English.

Paracelsus
April 27th, 2007, 08:40 AM
But there is another side to this - we all know and approve of parents educating young people to drink carefully and responsibly - indeed, as someone said above, this is certainly part of continental culture. I don't think for a moment that is what this proposed legislation is about. What it is aimed at is not the kid who sneaks a shot from the liquor cabinet - but the irresponsible parent who deliberately supplies large quantities of alcohol carelessly and without supervision to children under 18. At the moment it would be illegal for me to buy a bottle of vodka for a bunch of kids hanging round outside an off-licence, but if they were my children, and I brought Vodka and gave it to them, then I'm free to do that.
Now the point is that this is precisely what is happening - a large number of children have a severe problem with alcohol - a reflection of our own national character, I'm sure. Even in the (admittedly very nice comprehensive) school where I teach, I know of several children under the age of 16 who are already at the stage of having a problem with alcohol, and who drink, and are drunk (on alcohol supplied by parents and elder siblings) every night. now while this is more socially acceptable than 14 year olds on acid in class (which I have had to deal with before), it is equally disturbing.
It is an issue that has to be dealt with - as part of the wider issue of appalling alcohol abuse in the UK. The current government has its head stuck up its own arse on this - encouraging people to drink sensibly while relaxing licencing laws seems a bizzare combination, but the issue is a serious one, and deserves more than a knee jerk, humorous response.

AmericanMe
April 27th, 2007, 08:43 AM
'shitfaced'

'pissed'

You sound English.

Except "pissed" in our slang means angry, not drunk.

Phoenix Blue
April 27th, 2007, 08:47 AM
This idea is ridiculous. These people need to mind their own business.
Damn straight.

AmericanMe
April 27th, 2007, 08:48 AM
But there is another side to this - we all know and approve of parents educating young people to drink carefully and responsibly - indeed, as someone said above, this is certainly part of continental culture. I don't think for a moment that is what this proposed legislation is about. What it is aimed at is not the kid who sneaks a shot from the liquor cabinet - but the irresponsible parent who deliberately supplies large quantities of alcohol carelessly and without supervision to children under 18. At the moment it would be illegal for me to buy a bottle of vodka for a bunch of kids hanging round outside an off-licence, but if they were my children, and I brought Vodka and gave it to them, then I'm free to do that.
Now the point is that this is precisely what is happening - a large number of children have a severe problem with alcohol - a reflection of our own national character, I'm sure. Even in the (admittedly very nice comprehensive) school where I teach, I know of several children under the age of 16 who are already at the stage of having a problem with alcohol, and who drink, and are drunk (on alcohol supplied by parents and elder siblings) every night. now while this is more socially acceptable than 14 year olds on acid in class (which I have had to deal with before), it is equally disturbing.
It is an issue that has to be dealt with - as part of the wider issue of appalling alcohol abuse in the UK. The current government has its head stuck up its own arse on this - encouraging people to drink sensibly while relaxing licencing laws seems a bizzare combination, but the issue is a serious one, and deserves more than a knee jerk, humorous response.

I have a question in response, why is it any business of the government to tell people what legal substances they can put in their own bodies?

Being negligent to the point of killing someone is one thing, but the fact is that most people drink responsibly, and none of these self-proclaimed nannies have the authority or the right to decide what everyone else can drink.

Philosophia
April 27th, 2007, 08:48 AM
I don't understand the logic to this. Wouldn't education be a better solution to this issue? If they stopped demonizing it and taught how to properly "respect" the consumption of alcohol then I highly doubt there would be so many issues about it.

AuroraWillow
April 27th, 2007, 09:33 AM
This is going to sound pretty insensitive, but what happened to survival of the fittest? If a parent isn't smart enough to watch, and educate their children, or a kid isn't smart enough to know you can't drink a whole bottle of everclear in one day, why does the government need to protect them? I think we have way too many protections for stupid people in this country, and way too many punishments for smart people.

Call me an evil bitch if you must, but also consider that as a country we're getting dumber, and more legislation to protect dumb people isn't going to make us any smarter.

Amelserru_halqu
April 27th, 2007, 09:37 AM
This is going to sound pretty insensitive, but what happened to survival of the fittest? If a parent isn't smart enough to watch, and educate their children, or a kid isn't smart enough to know you can't drink a whole bottle of everclear in one day, why does the government need to protect them? I think we have way too many protections for stupid people in this country, and way too many punishments for smart people.

Call me an evil bitch if you must, but also consider that as a country we're getting dumber, and more legislation to protect dumb people isn't going to make us any smarter.

Evil? Well damn... I guess I"m evil too.

Wytchie
April 27th, 2007, 09:38 AM
I think this is another case of legislating for the many to stop the actions of a stupid minority..most here seem to agree that the occasional glass of wine at dinner is not the same thing as people who go out and buy large amounts of alcohol for their children and their children's friends...the latter certainly are in a minority, and it seems sad that the rest of the more-or-less-sensible population may have their actions dictated and curtailed yet again just because of these few.

Of course I agree that children should be protected from the stupidity of some adults, but surely this could be done in other ways than a blanket ban for everyone?

As another poster said, I think this is an issue that needs addressing, but with careful consideration, not just a panic response.

Marcasite
April 27th, 2007, 10:55 AM
I think parents should be encouraged to give their children a glass of wine with dinner every so often when they are teenagers. It teaches moderation. My parents let me have a glass of wine with dinner from 14 on and I have developed a very healthy attitude towards drinking for it.
Making alcohol forbidden and outright refusing to allow teenagers to have any drinks even at home with their parents is only going to make it more taboo and more desirable. More teens are just going to drink to get drunk. It's not a good solution at all.

Athena-Nadine
April 27th, 2007, 11:08 AM
I agree. A glass of wine here and there isn't a big deal. Making these things completely taboo causes a good deal of the problems, as far as I can see. It's the same thing with sex.

In the US, I have known parents who have been arrested for allowing their children to drink alcohol in their homes already. One was an idiot and deserved it for hosting a high school party and letting everyone get smashed, but the other two got in trouble for the harmless occasional glass of wine or beer because someone else couldn't mind their business. They all almost lost their children over it. :rolleyes:

lynn271
April 27th, 2007, 11:20 AM
I believe Prohibition is the ultimate goal of groups like these.

ShadowcatX
April 27th, 2007, 11:20 AM
I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a minute. Science has proven that many chemicals that are not (overly) harmful to adults can have a powerful impact on children's brain development if they partake before puberty. However, wether or not alcohol is one of those chemicals is currently unknown, with no conclusive evidence to either side.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the government keeping it's nose out of our business, but I kind of doubt had this article been about parents slipping their kids cigarettes every once in a while that the response would have been the same.

Nox_Mortus
April 27th, 2007, 11:30 AM
no this shouldn't be prosecuted, except for in really extreme cases (which is probably how it would work anyway) I can see parents getting in trouble for getting kids drunk and whatnot, which doesn't seem too unreasonable, but yeah if someone got charged for giving their kid a beer or glass of wine to have with a meal or something, that would be ridiculous.


I have a question in response, why is it any business of the government to tell people what legal substances they can put in their own bodies?


Its not legal if your underage.

Wytchie
April 27th, 2007, 11:38 AM
Its not legal if your underage.

Thats kinda the crux of this though isn't it; that at the moment it IS legal, but that the government are suggesting that it should be made illegal.


I can see parents getting in trouble for getting kids drunk and whatnot

This is a very good point, I think perhaps this would be a more sensible way to go, a law about intoxicating or causing the intoxication of a minor, rather than a total ban on alcohol in the home.

lynn271
April 27th, 2007, 11:42 AM
Its not legal if your underage.

In many states is IS legal if the minor is with his parents or guardians. That's what this group is trying to change.

sari0009
April 27th, 2007, 12:03 PM
Parents who give alcohol to children aged under 15 should be prosecuted, a charity has said.

The call comes in an Alcohol Concern report on the government's Alcohol Harm Reduction Strategy.

The charity would include meal times at home in the ban on giving alcohol to young people...

I'm not in favor of criminalizing so much in life simply because bigger and bigger portions of society are criminalized, underlying problems are still not solved, and new problems are added, making addressing very real problems at the root level all that more difficult.

However, some addicts enable not only access to alcohol but they also toxically nurture psychological-social components of addiction in their children (misery loves company), some of whom are most likely already genetically prone to addiction.

Education works best, and it should include demanding open dialogue that leads to figuring out sane boundaries.

Is there no law already in place that would make contributing to delinquency (inclusive to contributing to alcoholism in a minor) of a minor a punishable offense? That way, if a guardian allows children uncurbed access to alcohol and instills psychological components of addiction, they're already in contempt of the law.

Temptation
April 27th, 2007, 01:09 PM
I grew up drinking wine with my parents at meal times.

Same here. I think I was 7 or eight the first time my lemonade was laced with red wine.

It was never seen as something only adults get to do. As a consequence, alcohol has never had any real appeal to me other than being something that accompanies a good meal.

I understand that the alcohol abuse in the UK is severe among young and old alike, but this is really not the way to fix the problem. The binge drinking over there seems to be a cultural thing more than anything else. It's not the only country that has to deal with a population with a drinking problem. They need to figure out why people drink so much, before they can even begin to start an effective prevention program aimed at the young.

_Banbha_
April 27th, 2007, 01:25 PM
I think the proposed legislation is all wrong as well.

It is a serious problem in Britain though. Has anyone seen a TV show called "Ladettes to Ladys"? It's a competion about transforming 12 alcholic barflies into ladies who really need an AA meeting more than a finishing school. Well, the finishing school is a close second. _inabox_

SphinYote
April 27th, 2007, 01:46 PM
So, if this were put into effect, would it mean that children couldn't be given certain types of cold medicine?

Speaking of which when I was a kid, sometimes regular cold medicines, even perscription didn't do any good for me, and the only thing that allowed me to get to sleep when I had those twice-a-year bad colds was a hot toddy (Lemon juice, whiskey, and honey).

I hated them then, and don't much care for them now. I don't think they made me into an alcoholic. (Though it may be due to the fact that it's rather hard to enjoy being drunk when you're asleep, and one bottle of beer is usually enough to make me too tired to actually enjoy being drunk....I have never seen what the big deal was...)

Rudas Starblaze
April 27th, 2007, 02:35 PM
responsible parents keep an eye on their kids. and that also incudes monitoring their drinking. because regardles what "law" says, theyre still gonna do it.

would you rather your kid and his/her friends drink in the safety of you home where you can keep an eye on them? or would you rather them be behind the wheel of a car or at some party where they could be raped or killed? Hmmm, prosecute responsible parents who are protective of thier kids safety? or not prosecute parents who let their kids go out and do stupid shit and cause harm to themselves or someone else? Hmmmm.....

Semele
April 27th, 2007, 02:46 PM
Actually a glass of wine with dinner is healthy and benificial, even to younger folks who consume diets that normally increase cholesterol. Call it a cultural balancing act. Fish, chips, and red wine anyone?? lol!

For those exceptions that create alcoholic 12 year olds and generally neglect their children...well are there not systems in place in Europe like that of our social services? If they are trying to make laws regarding the interest of children I assume there are...so let them protect those individual cases and not punish the rest of society. They will save time, money, and grief.

ShadowcatX
April 27th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Actually a glass of wine with dinner is healthy and benificial, even to younger folks who consume diets that normally increase cholesterol. Call it a cultural balancing act. Fish, chips, and red wine anyone?? lol!

For those exceptions that create alcoholic 12 year olds and generally neglect their children...well are there not systems in place in Europe like that of our social services? If they are trying to make laws regarding the interest of children I assume there are...so let them protect those individual cases and not punish the rest of society. They will save time, money, and grief.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but you seem to be insinuating that neglecting the kids causes them to turn into alcoholics. That is incorrect. Don't get me wrong, it can cause them to abuse alcohol, but alcoholism has a genetic component with it and that can cause anyone to turn into an alcoholic. (That doesn't necessarilly mean they're abusing alcohol, though they probably will the moment they get the chance.)

Lunar Raven
April 27th, 2007, 04:58 PM
Hmm interesting replies so far. To clarify my opinion, I don't think it's horrible to give your kid a glass of wine..just un-needed

I don't know though, my opinion probably stems from my family problems. I come from a family filled with crazy alchohlics, and most started with "just a try".

..but also, underage drinking IS illegal. If you allow them to drink, what are you saying? It's okay to break certain laws, as long as you think they're stupid? And also..if you allow them to drink, why not allow them to do other illegal things..such as smoke pot..or worse?

Ok, so I might be being a bit extreme now, but the point is still there.

AmericanMe
April 27th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Here's another angle on this debate to consider: the idea that parential supervision and example of responsible drinking is a good thing.

Just like driving, gun use, and power tools, drinking can be another one of those life lessons that parents instruct their children on so they can do so safely and responsibly. I think in some ways, few evils in the world has collectively brought more long-term harm on kids as sheltering them.

Cassie
April 27th, 2007, 06:47 PM
This is going to sound pretty insensitive, but what happened to survival of the fittest? If a parent isn't smart enough to watch, and educate their children, or a kid isn't smart enough to know you can't drink a whole bottle of everclear in one day, why does the government need to protect them?

I am against the suggested legislation , but I am in favour of legislation that might help the situation.
It is not the child's fault if the parent is 'too dumb' to educate his or her child correctly. Therefore I think the government does have a right and a duty to make laws that protect children.
I also think the government has a right and a duty to protect the rest of us from the vandalism and often violent antics of people who have been drinking excessively.