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Agaliha
May 25th, 2007, 11:40 PM
Anyone want to discuss the Book of Veles?
Anyone read it? Is it part of your path?
Does the fact that it might be a forgery matter to you?


According to Wikipedia (Book of Veles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkiQ5qldGaRQAgUxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE2c2w3M2VvBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA3cEdnRpZANGNjY1Xzc2BGwDV 1Mx/SIG=11ulc68ls/EXP=1180236729/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Veles))--


The Book of Veles (also: Veles Book, Vles book, Vlesbook, Isenbeck's Planks, Велесова книга, Велес книга, Книга Велеса, Дощечки Изенбека, Дощьки Изенбека) is claimed to be a text of ancient Slavic religion and history.
It contains religious passages and accounts of history interspersed with religious morals. The earliest events in the book could be dated around 7th century BC and the latest happened in 9th century AD.

The book was allegedly discovered in 1919 and lost in 1941. Its authenticity is disputed, it is suspected to be a forgery made in the 1940s or the early 1800s; Moreover, different modern editions of the book have different versions of its text. Regardless, most Slavic Neopagans use it as their sacred text.

More about the authenticity here: Authenticity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Veles#Authenticity)

Also does anyone know of a full english translation? :awilly:

Wolf O Volos
May 26th, 2007, 12:01 AM
Anyone want to discuss the Book of Veles?
Anyone read it? Is it part of your path?
Does the fact that it might be a forgery matter to you?



:hahugh: You are too cool Agaliha!


Actually, I HAVE read parts of a translated version, I will have to really dig around to figure out which site I found the translated version on... and I DO use parts of it in the little bit of ritual I use in my practice.

I think the idea of it being a "forgery" is intersting, to be honest. The fact that it details certain histories, and certain mythological stories, doesnt HAVE to be 100% authentic, it is the message and some of the more interesting verses within it that seem to be of most importance to me.

Not to incite a riot here among our Christian friends, and those that refer to themselves as Neopagan/christians or what have you... but one of the most published works of religious text, "the Bible" could ALSO be disputed as to its actual legitimacy. The idea that it could have been commissioned by a cardinal to be translated just a little different, to conform to the needs of the chirch and its followers at the time, seems rather valid to me. The idea that bits were left out because they also were not to the standards of what the church wished to teach seem valid as well. And there ARE things that seem just a little more mythological, than factual.

The reason I bring it into the discussion, is because if millions worldwide can read the bible, and use it to further their spiritual growth, even if there are things that people outside of their faith can point out just dont make sense... then the Book Of Veles could be rather comparable in its "legitimacy" as a source for spiritual growth and learning. The idea to me is that even though there are questions as to who actually wrote it, the text within still inspires thought, and causes one to think about, and maybe begin to understand a little more about the roots of the slavic faith. Truth be told, much of the slavic faith is handed down generation to generation, so while some of the texts within the book may not have actually been WRITTEN word for word by those people accredited to it, I have a pretty good feeling that the stories themselves were indeed passed on from the proper times periods as described in it.

I will get to digging, for those of you interested, and see if anything within my old archived materials have direct text from the Book Of Veles, or if i can find that site I used to copy some of the "translated to english" verses I found.

Agaliha
May 26th, 2007, 02:48 AM
Before I respond to your comment, I found some of the book! HA!



_The Book of Veles_

1.This Book of Veles we devote to our God who is our sanctuary and strength.
2.Once there was a man, so peaceful and decisive that they called him the father of Russians.
3.And that man had a wife and two daughters. He had livestock and cattle and many sheep
4.and lived in steppes and he could not find husbands for his daughters anywhere and he prayed
5.to Gods for his blood not to die like that. And Dajbog answered his prayers and
6.gave him what he asked for. So were married those who are among us. 7.And we are obliged to believe because it is clear that God Veles brings children.
8.We owe to our Gods and therefore we praise them:
9.May our vozhd be blessed now and forever.
10.Sorcerers (Volshebnik) said that and left.

1.In those times there was the father of Slavs Bogumir and he had three daughters and two sons. They took their livestock
2.to steppes and lived in grass as in the times of fathers. And they were obedient to God and clear-minded.
3.And so their mother, who was called Slavuni and cared for them, told 4.Bogumir the seventh day: We have to merry our daughters and see our grandchildren. That
5.she said and Bogumir saddled his horse and went away. And he reached the crater which was in the field and stopped
6.at the fire. And he spotted in the evening three males approaching him on their horses
7.and they told him: Hello (zdravo budi = be healthy),what are you looking for? Bogumir confessed his problem to them
8.and they replied him that they were on quest to find themselves wives.
9.Back came Bogumir to his steppes and brought three husbands to his daughters. Since then exist three tribes, united and glorious.
10.From them became Drevljans, Krivics and Poljans because the first 11.Bogumir's daughter was called Dreva, the second one-Skreva, and the third-Poleva. Bogumir's
12.sons were called Seva, and the younger one Rus. From them became Severians
13.and Russians. Three husbands were three harbingers: Morning, Noon and Evening.
14.That people settled seven rivers where they lived behind the sea in green lands
15.and herded its livestock even before coming to Karpatian highlands. 16.That was the time of 1300 before Germanarech.
17.In those times was a great battle on the coast of GothicSea and there our ancestors....(lost part)
18.from the white stone where they buried all warriors and chiefs

19.who had fallen in battle...(lost part)
21.We had come from the green land to the GothicSea and there we found (GothicSea is the Black Sea)
22.the Goths who barred our way further. And so we fought for that land and for our lives.
23.At that time, our fathers had already been on the coast and the river Ra ..And with great efforts
24.they had been taking their people and livestock across the river continuing towards Don and there they met Goths
25.and to south the GothicSea. But Goths were intent on going against us
26.and so we were made to fight for our lives and survival
27.because the Huns were following our fathers and attacked them, killed the people, (seems that Huns followed Slavs, not the other way around as the official history says)
28.and their livestock they were stealing. And so the glorious people moved to the land where the sun sleeps at night (do you have any explanation for this part?)
29.and where there is a lot of grass and fertile field and rivers full of wish and where no one dies. (sweat dreams...)
30.The Goths were still in the green lands and arrived barely before our fathers who started
31.from the great river Ra which separates us from the others
32.and runs into the sea of Fasist (whatever the Fasist is)
33.There a man of Belojaran tribe crosses the river there and gets ahead of (belojaran?)
34.Sinian traders who headed for Frazhec because Jegunes on their island waited for (I am not sure I spelled it good, but I have no idea who Sinians and Jegunes are)
35.traders and robbed them.
36.It was half a century before Aldorech and even before that the tribe of Belojarans was (Aldorech sounds like Germanarech. Must be some ages or specific events or periods)
37.powerful.Hunese traders started following Belojaran man telling him that they will give him silver (Hunese traders?)
38.(lost part)...for that....(lost part)
39.(lost whole)
40.and two horses of gold. He went away and evaded the treachery of Huns, then went around the Goths
41.who were so cruel and reached Nepra. And their Prince is without honor
42.and taxes them twice. So the traders came to us, went back to Sinia 43.and never ever returned.

1.Gods gave to Bogumir all mundane treasures...
2....it was like this among us...
3.and from the elders we chose Prince, whom we since the days of old 4.called our leader...they were Princes for a long time and Greeks won't 5.change them. They will be til the end as it is honorable for a husband of that tribe
6.to give offsprings who rule us. After Bogumir, there was Or with his sons. And when
7.Huns started a great battle for fortifying their great land, we left it
8.towards the Russians. Now another time has come, we are obliged to gather and go forward, so that others
9.wouldn't say that we left our land and conquered the other's, but to have them say that
10.we fight for ourselves. Because of that, Russians, don't leave Greeks on your land, but
11.fight for it...In that time river Ra was a border with other lands, and today our enemies
12.fall on us. We are obliged to fight for our grandsons, to keep our steppes
13.and not to give our land to anyone... 14.so we are obliged to do different. We will not burn (dub) on our fields, neither sow on them(dubs or fields?)
15.nor harvest the ashes, because we have the grassy steppes, we will herd the livestock, guarding it
16.from the enemies...

1 Conscience commands us not to hide the words
2 and tell only truth about our people.
3 Let's say the truth about them, about our first Ban and Princes that we were choosing
4 and dethroned. Kisek lead his people and livestock to the steppes to south
5 and there they lived where the sun shines. And to him came father Or and said:
6 We both have children, men, women and elders to defend from the enemy. And so they
7 did and became one tribe-they united livestock so they were
8 worth their Gods now and forever. When
9 they started discussing, some decided to become one and others not. And then father Or
10 took his people and herds and went to land far away. This he told us then: There we will found
11 a town. And it was Golinj because the steppes were bare(go=bare in Serbian). And Kisek went further
12 and took all his people to other place as not to merge with people of father Or. So ancestors
13 founded the land and settled it, the same as Kisek went with his people and founded
14 another land and settled it. That way they divided and bordered themselves and so
15 became foreigners to each other. They had bread and salt and didn't fight.
16 Both Kisek's people and those of father Or were glorious since that time
17 and their glory ran long because sword and arrow the knew. (this tablet sounds really glorious)

1 Even in the times of old it was said that we will, if we unite with them, create
2 ....and many children we will give birth to.
3 from Golunj and three hundred towns and villages where from valleys hearths smoke. There is Perun ours
4 and land ours, too. And here, the bird Mother of All sings about that day and we await that time
5 when Svarog's circle will end with us. Then, the Mother of All will come to us.
6 The Mother of All told to us when we were miserable: Defend our land well. And Vendes,
7 when they went to the west of the Sun, before the enemy divided the land and bad faith they had.
8 Aggressive and forceful the people were and trust in word they had.
9 We are not stupid and out of reason and we don't believe until we see.
10 Vendes, return to our lands to ancient steppes and watch what
11 misery was before we left the Five rivers which remained cut off to the right
12 of us. And the Mother of All said that fire will take the ashes to us and Golinj destroy
13 and burn. Gods Kupalo and Dazhd, dazhd(a verb) because the land is miserable
14 destroyed and beaten by horse hooves while your sons, riding horses over it,
15 roamed it. So the Gods in these steppes sent enemies in rage. We have to abide them
16 not like in time of Antes because those Antes slew many with sword and plundered your home
17 because strangers don't build homes.


1 Then we were lead by father Or, Kiy lead the Rus, Shchek lead his
2 tribe, and Hrvat his Hrvats (Croats)... and because we are grandsons of Gods
3 Hrvat and Shchek divided from the others, and we settled Karpatean mountains. There were
4 other towns already built and we had other tribesmates and great wealth.
5 Then the enemies attacked and we ran to towns of Kiev and Golunj and there we settled.
6 Our fires we lit until Svarga and sacrifices we made to please the Gods.
7 And then Kiy died after ruling us for thirty summers. And after him came
8 Lebedian who was called Slaver(not the one who keeps slaves) and he lived twelve summers. And then came Veren,
9 from Vilikogradje twelve too, and then Serezhenj ten. On their throne they
10 achieved victory over the enemy, evil of the darkness they removed from their sons and built for us
11 and for you. And then Goths came to the steppes doing us evil but decisive were
12 our ancestors when they fought for their lives and glorious they became because they praised Gods. And so
13 we are grandsons of the Gods, of Svarog ours and Dajbog. And then we suffered evil and before we
14 had great power and defended ourselves from dishonorable Goths and Varangians for many
15 summers. Then Ilmers supported us and so we defeated the enemy. And they had
16 ten Tsars who were as wolves and had the bravery of lions. When we 17 attacked them, they started using treachery and, to defend themselves, they buried their swords.


1.Above us Mother of All flies because new troubles come. Our borders were weak
2.so many enemies burned our homes and hearths. Sadness covered our lands.
3.Smoke from burned steppes went all the way to Svarga. And Zhal cried for us.
4.Mother of All cries to Vishnji to give us wood for fires of our hearths.
5.He sent us aid and alone with our fathers struck at our enemy. And then Germanarech retreated and Goths
6.fled to the coast across the MalaKalkaRiver. And so they freed the land all the way to the river Don.
7.And on that side of the Don is the river Kalka Velika a border between our tribe and the others. And there
8.Goths warred for 400 years with their enemies. Then we began to sow our land
9.and richly farm the land of Alans. At the markets we traded livestock, leather and grease for
10.silver,gold,drinks and goods. And our life was peaceful after that 11.until Goths struck at us again. That war lasted for ten summers. We joined
12.and defended our land and our faith from the enemy.
13.So the Holy Ones came to us. First Kolada, and then Jaro
14.and RedMountain and Ovsenj the Great and Small. The Holy Ones walked our (cities),towns and villages
15.as good hosts bringing and spreading
16.peace on this world.


1.Go,our brothers, tribe with tribe and clan with clan, and fight for our land
2.as it is fit for us and in no other way. Because we are the Rus, we praise our Gods
3.with song, dance, celebration for their glory. Because we settled the land which
4.with our fingers we put on our wounds so that we could stand before Marmora when we die.
5.And she would say: I can't blame the one who is a prisoner of earth and I can't divide him from
6.it.And our Gods spoke there: Those are the Rus because they put, 7.earth on their wounds and brought it to Nav. In those times, the Princes were chosen
8.and there were many Princes and leaders. And all those Princes were 9.from common men. Because it was like this: You cultivate the land for yourselves, but be Princes,
10.because it was decided that you care for the others. And bread, food and all for life the people had every
11.day.Other Princes take taxes and give rule to their sons,
12.and so on from grandfathers to grandsons. The last probably refers to other nations.


1.Here,Dajbog the mighty comes to aid our people. That's why we are not afraid
2.we have faith in Him and we feel His care. And we were waiting for that day when we had...
3.(lost whole)
4.Voronezhec was the place where Goths moved in. The Rus
5.didn't defend it and little remained of it. After the battle, fire scorched our hearths and our farmlands
6.into powder and ash which winds scattered to the four sides of the world. Then the Rus left their place.
7.Don't bless that Russian land, but remember it. There
8.the blood of our fathers was spilled and it is ours by Right(note the capital R).Voronezhec
9.brought glory to the Rus and Svarog. Hold it near you with all your force, return it to
10.your Princes, preserve the Holy Russia. Because her pastures fed and dressed
11.our Princes and hearths. Let's serve it and defend it because it clothes,
12.feeds and refreshes us forever and until death. And they served it, and many
13.laid their bones there, as in the times of Menzemir's Antes.
14.They named us Sloveni because we sing honor and glory to the Gods. Nothing
15.do we ask for, only rise their glory. Prayers we say while we wash our bodies and
16.glory...

FROM: a Yahoo Group, leszi The Slavic Pagan Online Study Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/leszi/)


I hope it's accurate :huh:
I'm going to read it...

Wolf O Volos
May 27th, 2007, 11:03 PM
Thats pretty much the version I have as well. Although mine also has another pice to it that has a folklore-ish story about a young man who goes to dinner in the house of Byelobog, Meets Dhazdbog, Veles, and a few of the others... but then tries to steal something like dinnerware from the table of the Gods, and the subsequent lessons he learns from the gods as they each question him about the theft.

I will have to either find it on the web ( this additional folk tale ) or I will get to typing it in here so others may read it.