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Danustouch
May 3rd, 2002, 09:53 PM
Can be deadly according to this article...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/746831.asp

Parents, be careful.

Margie
May 3rd, 2002, 10:27 PM
That's good information. Some common sense but informative for some who may have questions on it and aren't sure!

Thanks Danus!

Yvonne Belisle
May 3rd, 2002, 10:42 PM
I slept with all of my kids when they were younger but for the first year I used a bassinette on my bed against the wall. It gave me the sense of security of knowing my baby was right there without having to worry about them getting caught between the wall and the matress or under me. When they were to big for the bassinette they moved to thier own crib with the exception of my youngest who stayed in my bed till he was 3.

Danustouch
May 3rd, 2002, 11:28 PM
I heard somewhere that they have a special kind of bassinette now, where the side pulls down, with a part that pulls out, level with the bed. So the baby can still be in the bassinette, but close to you at the same time.

Loon
May 4th, 2002, 01:21 AM
According to an article I read, cosleeping is more common in the world than babies sleeping apart from their mothers. Research that has been done finds that mothers and babies sleep facing each other, are responsive to each other's movements and sleep lighter. Also, babies nurse more and receive more sensation stimuli. The article suggests that these factors might reduce the instance of SIDS for cosleeping babies, but it does recommend that the safety of the bedding, etc. must be considered. It also mentioned that alcohol and drug use "appear" to be the main reasons mothers have killed their sleeping children.

seawitch
May 4th, 2002, 01:37 AM
i slept with my baby till she was old. we both loved it and i believe it helped with the bonding. it was great for nursing. and she'd probably still be sleeping with me but i remarried.
the bassinet thing is still very good and maybe better for some.
just do what ever works, right?

Loon
May 4th, 2002, 02:24 AM
I heard somewhere that they have a special kind of bassinette now, where the side pulls down, with a part that pulls out, level with the bed. So the baby can still be in the bassinette, but close to you at the same time.

Here's the link:
Arm's Reach Co-sleeper (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/baby/B00005LOXN/qid=1020493223/br=1-18/ref=br_lf_ba_18/102-9489371-8523337)

Loon
May 4th, 2002, 02:40 AM
Here's a link to the Web site of the University of Notre Dame professor (James J. McKenna) who was quoted in the article. And I just realized that he's the author of the article on cosleeping I referred to before.

Mother-and-Baby Behavioral Sleep Laboratory (http://www.nd.edu/~alfac/mckenna/index.html)

Loon
May 4th, 2002, 03:12 AM
Here's the Consumer Product Safety Commission press release:
CPSC, JPMA Launch Campaign About the Hidden Hazards of Placing Babies in Adult Beds (http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml02/02153.html)

Yvonne Belisle
May 4th, 2002, 08:23 AM
These are very good to have thank you. I think it's important to know the positive and negative on what we consider before it becomes an issue when there are kids. Now if only we really could plan for every eventuality I would be set. Oh well we plan for what we can:)

Sequoia
May 4th, 2002, 10:34 PM
hmm. . . personally I think those were prolly freak cases. . . . I mean. . . look at how many babies die for "unknown" reasons every year? It seems like a huge number they were saying. . . what was it, about 180? But think about how many children were born in that year? how many thousand? I know that sounds a bit callous - but take it into context. That's probably a very very small percentage. And it was probably parents who weren't watching the child or who didn't usually do it. Or maybe it was something none of us know.

All I know is that I'm planning on having my baby sleep in bed with me.

Myst
May 4th, 2002, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Danustouch
I heard somewhere that they have a special kind of bassinette now, where the side pulls down, with a part that pulls out, level with the bed. So the baby can still be in the bassinette, but close to you at the same time.

I plan to use that. Though I'm a pretty relaxed sleeper my fiance tends to move around a lot, and as well both my cats and my dog sleep in our bed as it is. We sleep in a queen and even now some nights it's too small lol

Danustouch
May 5th, 2002, 12:24 AM
Well...Puma, even if the percentage is rather small..that is one risk i'm unwilling to take. I believe in taking the safest route possible in choices where my child is concerned.

materra
May 5th, 2002, 02:12 AM
I agree with Loon, I have also heard that alcohol, drugs or neglect were components of these deaths before now. I would like to add that mine slept with us, and neither of us were so unaware as to roll over the babies. Ever. Most of the planet has children sleeping with their parents for the 1st part of their lives. So if you are going to have kids, don't be afraid, and if you have some concerns, it looks as if there are now solutions.

Yvonne Belisle
May 5th, 2002, 08:26 AM
I also recall drugs and alcohol being components in those deaths as it impares the mothers sences.

Margie
May 5th, 2002, 08:58 AM
I breastfed both my daughters and I brought them in the bed with me when I did so. Sometimes they'd stay there and we'd both just sleep, sometimes when they were done they woke me a little and I put them back in the crib (right next to our bed). I was never afraid of hurting them in the middle of the night because as soon as I had them, all of a sudden I was the lightest sleeper in the world, every little breath, coo, hearbeat I was aware of. I think the information is good for new mothers, mothers who maybe have never been around children before and who really don't know that things like that *can* happen. It's informative but if you're aware and connected to your child I think it can be prevented from happening. If you're smart enough not to go to bed drunk and high with your child then it probably won't happen. If you're careless than it's a good wake up call to get your act together. It could happen for no reason at all but you should just be *aware* that it can and does happen and you should take all the steps you feel are necessary to prevent that for your baby.

Danustouch
May 5th, 2002, 11:39 AM
I also recall drugs and alcohol being components in those deaths as it impares the mothers sences.

Yep..I'm sure that's one of the larger componants. However, there are other things which could cause a mother to be unaware during her sleep. Extreme Fatigue, for instance. I know many mothers feel totally exhausted for the first couple of months after the birth of their child. Especially, due to the feeding routines. So..if the mother is particularly exhausted, and falls asleep...she might not wake if her baby is in danger. Instincts allow mothers to be lighter sleepers, but there is always the chance that this same "light sleep" would eventually catch up with her, and she will fall into a totally exhausted deep slumber.

Or..if the mother is ill with a cold. Or, has to take prescription meds, or cold medicines, or allergy medicines.

Yes..these situations may be a rarity, and I'm not telling anyone what they should do with their child.

For me, I guess that when I have a kid, I will take every safety precaution necessary. My need to have the child in bed and close to me, will not surpass my need to be absolutely sure that she is as safe as possible. And I also feel that if there is a bassinette right beside the bed, where you are sleeping, the baby will still be close enough to you..etc. So I just see it as an unnecessary risk.

I'm glad that nobody here discussing this has had a situation like this arise with their children, or anyone they know. But..on the other hand, there is anything can happen. There are few assurances in this world.

I'm reminded of when my mother was preparing for my little Sister's birth. We had the old crib that I used as a baby in the attic. However, she had to go out and buy a brand new one, because the bars on that crib were just large enough for a baby to get their head stuck in. The newer cribs were built to prevent this. Now..I never got my head stuck in it, and I'm sure it was a rare enough occurance back in the days they were making those cribs. But obviosly, those who engineer new furniture for babies, etc, are aware that there IS a risk, and choose to lessen the possibility of those things occurring.

So for me, "It hasnt' happened to anyone I know yet"..isn't enough assurance. But..that's just me :)

Yvonne Belisle
May 5th, 2002, 12:34 PM
There are lots of travel bassinettes out there and that is what i basically had an old heavy duty stroller bassinette the sides had metal under that fabric and padding. I kept my bed against the wall and I always sleep on that side so I put the bassinette between me and the wall. By the time any of my kids out grew that they were old enough that I felt ok with them in the crib near me. With Michael my 5 year old we didn't have a crib and he stayed in bed with me till he was 3 sometimes we moved him to his playpen if we needed some privacy. I do know that I personally will normally wake over tiny sounds because of having them that close on one occasion my second was in the hospital and the baby in the crib next to my son got sick I called the nurse in but she didn't believe me since that childs mother was asleep next to that crib and didn't hear anything then she turned on the light because I insisted and I was right. That poor kid would have slept in it for another 2 hours if I hadn't heard him. So always trust yourself.

Loon
May 5th, 2002, 05:56 PM
The CPSC warning is so broad that it can be misleading. The real danger is not cosleeping or even bedsharing, but leaving a baby unattended in an adult bed. Entrapment and suffocation can be concerns in cribs as well if they are not regulation or if soft bedding and pillows are used. The CPSC data isn't specific enough to warrant condemning bedsharing in all circumstances. Certainly there are special considerations for bedsharing, but I think the CPSC is generalizing from extreme cases. It's still important information for parents and care givers to be aware of, though.

Myst
May 5th, 2002, 06:10 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. It is important to be aware of all the facts and to make personal decisions.

Margie
May 5th, 2002, 09:36 PM
You two said it great Loon and Myst!

Arduinna
May 6th, 2002, 01:38 AM
I'm another person who slept with their child when they were small. I always knew where she was in relationship to me. It's just one of those things that is hard to explain unless you've experienced it.

Old Witch
May 8th, 2002, 01:54 PM
It's hard to explain how you know where your children are......but you do..............

Margie
May 8th, 2002, 02:51 PM
There have been lots of good points on both sides of this. I think it's totally up to you what you do. I slept with my daughters in the bed alot when they were babies. At times, I see/read/heard something that made me keep them in their crib for a few nights cause I got freaked. I think it's totally your choice what you do and it's just good to have the information of what might/could happen. Then you can make an informed and educated choice about what you want to do.

Semele
May 9th, 2002, 10:34 AM
Let me just start by saying that when Trey was a baby and I was still nursing...he quite frequently slept with us. Had I known then what I know now....

I am a pediatric nurse and I can't count the number of times I have gone into a patient room to find a baby in bed with the parents in a dangerous position. The parents are often times sitting almost upright holding the babies and they are sound asleep and the baby is upside down or hanging off the bed or smashed into the rails. These are parents that I would brag about and chart how appropriate they are because of the devotion I see when they are awake. They are often exhausted, as was mentioned earlier and filled with stress and worry. They think they are protecting their child by keeping it close to them but in reality they are endagering them. I always considered myself a very alert sleeper when he was in bed with us, but I am sure these parents did as well. How many times did I sleep through the night and just assume that he did too because I didn't hear anything.

Also if you are nursing there is an even bigger danger. You may both be sleepy and the baby may fall asleep at the breast, as they commonly do anyway. However you may be sleeping as well and not realise you need to remove the breast from the babies mouth and facial area. Those things have a mind of their own!!! Milk can let down very quickly and choke a baby. Granted you would probably wake up quickly when you hear your child choking, but at that point how much have they already aspirated into their fragile lungs. Pneumonia or pneumonitis is highly likely to occur. As well, there is an increased incidence of Otitis media or ear infection in babies who are allowed to go to bed with a bottle in their mouth. Not to even mention the dental issues. Babies should be fed on demand by an alert parent. In many ways breastfeeding in bed, asleep, is no different than propping a bottle and it holds the same dangers.

Sorry...I will get off my soapbox now!! Suffice to say, this is something I have thought a lot about in regards to our upcoming baby. Another key factor in my decision not to let the baby sleep with us is that I don't want the same fight we had with Trey when it is time for them to sleep in their own bed. To this day Trey still gets out of bed and gets on the couch or in the floor outside our door. Bad habit to break.

Yvonne Belisle
May 9th, 2002, 10:51 AM
Thank you for the additional information it is very hard to make a choice like this with just statisitcs and no aditional information. You have first hand knowledge and that is something very valuble.

Semele
May 9th, 2002, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by Yvonne Thomas
Thank you for the additional information it is very hard to make a choice like this with just statisitcs and no aditional information. You have first hand knowledge and that is something very valuble.

No problem. Again, I don't want to sound like a snotty know-it-all. I mean I did it myself. It is a lot more convenient and the bonding is awesome. I just think that for myself I will try harder to keep this kiddo in it's own bed!

Danustouch
May 9th, 2002, 03:49 PM
Yes, thank you Semele..everything you said just reinforced my feelings on the issue, and I agree with you 100%. To me, the simple fact is...if there is the slightest possibility..of harm coming to my child as a result of it being in bed with me, it's a possibility I'm going to rule out :) Thank you for relating your experiences. Alot to think about!

Yvonne Belisle
May 9th, 2002, 07:21 PM
Never a know it all but with your profession you have a lot of knowledge and experiences that most of us are lucky enough not to have. :) Like nailpolish near the eyes! That was a nightmare for me but I felt better talking to someone who had more than my miniscule knowledge. :)

Loon
May 9th, 2002, 11:04 PM
Here's a rather long, but very good, article on cosleeping vs. not cosleeping:

Cosleeping: Can we ever put the issue to rest? (http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0BGH/6_17/63772186/p1/article.jhtml?)

Ravensnest
May 13th, 2002, 08:32 PM
It really is a personal decision but, if one is making the decision based on the possibility of laying on or smothering their child in their sleep I wouldn't. There are no reported cases of parents who were sober doing harm to their baby while sleeping. It has always been in cases of using bad judgement.. drugs, alcohol or deciding to sleep with baby on the couch where baby got caught between the cushions.

I slept with my daugter from the time she came home from the hospital and not once did I ever roll over on her. Just as with any animal we have a built in "radar" that alerts us just as it wakes us from a dead sleep when a child is in another room but, wakes up. The only time we don't do that is when we are impaired. So, if it were someone who was drinking too much or taking drugs by all means do not let that baby sleep with them.. of course maybe they shouldn't be having a baby to begin with if they aren't willing to stay sober so that they can take care of the child properly to begin with. That's another discussion all together!

Danustouch
May 21st, 2002, 04:11 PM
Ravensnest, I'm not sure if you saw Semele's post, but she made some very good points. It ISNT always a case of a mom being drunk, or on drugs, and rolling over on her child. Sometimes, it's just stress, or sheer exhaustion. And I can't count how many times i've sat down on the bed, and woken up two hours later..not having known how incredibly exhausted I was. Yes..it's a personal decision..but stating that it's ONLY cases where drugs or alchohol was involved, doesn't help anyone to make a decision, because it's been proven that that ISNT the only situation that it happens in.

Arduinna
May 21st, 2002, 04:21 PM
If you want to go strictly by the numbers then it's a miracle cribs haven't been outlawed as 180 babies died while slepping with parents over 3 years. Yet in the same time 2500 babies died in cribs.

Wonder why no one is afraid what will happen to the child in a crib?

Myst
May 21st, 2002, 04:32 PM
Let's keep in mind that some studies consider cosleeping not to be just when the baby is in the bed, but when it is close enough that you can "access, respond to or exchange sensory stimuli such as sound, movement, touch, vision, gas, olfactory stimuli, CO2, and/or temperature" (McKenna et al., 1993, p. 264)

An interesting page that talks about cosleeping more safely - http://www.larkfarm.com/AP/family_bed.htm

So I've learned that I will have my baby cosleeping, but he or she won't be in the bed, but in a bassinet made to be secured to the bed and keep the baby close but safe.

Loon
May 21st, 2002, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Arduinna
If you want to go strictly by the numbers then it's a miracle cribs haven't been outlawed as 180 babies died while slepping with parents over 3 years. Yet in the same time 2500 babies died in cribs.

Wonder why no one is afraid what will happen to the child in a crib?

In one of the articles I read, it said that SIDS was originally called "crib death," implying that babies were more likely do die while sleeping in a crib than with their parents.

Arduinna
May 21st, 2002, 11:16 PM
yes they have done studies and proven that babies that sleep next to their mother breathe at the same rate she does and have a lower incidence of sids.

Ravensnest
May 25th, 2002, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Danustouch
Ravensnest, I'm not sure if you saw Semele's post, but she made some very good points. It ISNT always a case of a mom being drunk, or on drugs, and rolling over on her child. Sometimes, it's just stress, or sheer exhaustion. And I can't count how many times i've sat down on the bed, and woken up two hours later..not having known how incredibly exhausted I was. Yes..it's a personal decision..but stating that it's ONLY cases where drugs or alchohol was involved, doesn't help anyone to make a decision, because it's been proven that that ISNT the only situation that it happens in.

I also stated that it was always in cases where parents used "bad judgement" and I would say if you're so exhausted you don't feel you would awaken if you rolled on or heard your baby crying then you probably should say.. tonight the baby isn't sleeping with me. But, then again maybe you should let the baby stay the night with someone who would be able to hear them if something happened whether they were in the bed with you or in a crib. If you're so exhausted you wouldn't wake if they needed you then good judgement would tell you to get help with them. Common sense is the key here.. don't put yourself in the position of not being coherant enough to tend to baby and you should be fine if you get to the point where you are going to be incoherant be it from drugs, alcohol, sleep deprivation or any other means then by all means NO do not let them sleep with you and find someone who can help you tend to them because you obviously can't at that moment.

It is very difficult to have a new baby and not be sleep deprived. But common sense will tell you (if your doctor didn't) to lay down and nap with the baby. Get your rest when you can and yes, the house and other things tend to go a little at first until you get your rhythmn down but, eventually you do and that way you don't end up so sleep deprived you can't tend to your baby.

Let's face it.. if you're so exhausted you crash so hard you can't hear your child then they are in danger even in the crib.

Common sense.. good judgement that's the main point in making this and any other desicion in life for that matter.
Dottie
Ravens Nest Incense & Oils
http://ravensnestincense.com

Danustouch
May 25th, 2002, 12:37 PM
Sids was originally called Crib Death...yes..but they've done an enormous amount of research into SIDS since then, and it has been linked to smoking, to e-coli bacteria, and a number of other things, and probably has very little to do with sleeping in a crib.

And I also think that great attention IS paid to crib safety. That is why certain cribs have been recalled numbers of times, and why they are constantly doing research into improving crib safety.

Silver Venus
May 27th, 2002, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by Myst
So I've learned that I will have my baby cosleeping, but he or she won't be in the bed, but in a bassinet made to be secured to the bed and keep the baby close but safe.

:) I too have been thinking about this allot recently and have decided to get a 'moses' basket that stands next to the bed for the first 3 months, then he will go in a cot by the side of my bed.
I was going to get a cot from birth, with one side that comes completley off, so the mattress of the cot can be aligned with your matress and you baby can sleep next to you but in its own space where no harm can come. Ive decided to get this when my baby is 3 months old as the size of the cot may seem massive to him being so small at first and the basket is cute to carry him in to take downstairs and to friends and families houses.. yes its only used for a short while but I feel its the safest option for me and my babe..

Thank you all for this thread, its so great to be able to read so many opinions and so much information/advice! :)

Ganga
May 27th, 2002, 10:46 AM
I'm coming to this thread a bit too late, but what the heck. I used to sleep with my babies for the simple reason that I was breast-feeding. It was so easy and cozy to just roll over and stick the breast in the baby's mouth. No getting up, walking to the crib, sitting to feed, bleary-eyed, torturing myself. Even a crib next to my bed would have forced me to sit on the bed, lift the baby closer, etc. I know, I've always been lazy. But it has kept me quite comfortable all through these years.

In many cultures, babies sleep with their Mommies.

Autumn
June 12th, 2002, 11:45 PM
I did co-sleep at least part of the time with both my girls, you can't use drugs or get drunk, but on the subject of hospital bedrails, no offence intended but adults die from getting caught in those things! They don't keep people in bed, they merely remind you to stay in bed!

SIDS reasearch is continueing but as long as our culture is afraid of a practice used by much of the world the stats will be non representative of the truth.

LadyJ0713
July 11th, 2002, 02:05 AM
Hi My son had a rough birth. His head was fractured by the midwife in two places. He had to sleep in our bed because he would stop breathing. The only way we knew when he'd stop is when he would wiggle a little. I didn't get much sleep the first year but he is still alive and a happy healthy 2 1/2 year old. He still sleeps with us. I feel safer with him next to me. I know no one is stealing him out of his room. I keep telling my sig other that he won't be sleeping with us when he goes to college. It's been hard on our love life but we manage. I don't get sex as often as I'd like but it's the price I've choose to pay for my son.

Faery-Wings
July 11th, 2002, 07:29 AM
Welcome to MW, LadyJ0713! I am glad your son is doing fine now. Both of my kids slept the first few months in a bassinet next to my bed, so I could hear them and reach out and touch them any time I needed to. My son had severe colic and I ended up putting him in his own room earlier than I had planned on. My daughter, on the other hand, had reflux and would throw up out of her nose. She stayed next to me a lot longer because I was always scared she was going to choke in her sleep. There are so many personal reasons both for and against co-sleeping. Thank you for sharing your story. :)

Angelwulfe
July 22nd, 2002, 08:59 PM
my daughter has been sleeping with me most of the time. she's almost 2 weeks old. my fiancee works nights right now so she usually sleeps with me. he's a really sound sleeper and rolls all of the place so when he's home she sleeps in her cradle next to our bed. i've been breast feeding so it's been really helpful. i've been aware of the risks but i'm a pretty light sleeper and like others have said i just know where she is on the bed. it also has helped with the bonding process.