Counter arguments to Christianity

[SSanf]

This thread is isn't intended to rag on anyone's religion. However, non-theists are most likely, in our society, to be confronted by Christians intent on "saving" them for their own good. When that happens, it is often mentally healthy to have a well defined set of reasons in your own mind why that just doesn't work for you. Knowing why in your own mind helps keep frustration and anger at bay.

Please, add your own thoughts and counter arguments.

BE RESPECTFUL!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Did a historical Jesus exist? (http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm)

Did Jesus Exist -- The Probing Mind (http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html)

Did Jesus Christ exist? All sides to the question (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcno.htm)

The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ (http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm)

[SweetIsTheTruth]

When that happens, it is often mentally healthy to have a well defined set of reasons in your own mind why that just doesn't work for you.

How dare you offer bait that I could in no way refuse to take!

Knowledge is power indeed! And the best defense is a good offense. There are so many approaches one might take, I hardly know where to begin here.

To start with, don't be fooled into debating Christianity itself in these situations. Christianity isn't the issue here. Instead, focus on the bible, from which Christianity springs. There are literally thousands of passages one might use to prove one's point to be found there.

One might start with the most basic of logical proofs, being an argument by definition. Given the following passages;

Numbers 22: And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

Genesis 3:Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Here we have two instances where a donkey and a snake are said to speak much like a human would. Compare those passages to the following definition;

FABLE - NOUN: 1. A usually short narrative making an edifying or cautionary point and often employing as characters animals that speak and act like humans. (The American HeritageŽ Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.)

Therefore, by definition, the bible can be nothing but fable. The nice thing about this one is, should the person get offended once you point this out, you merely tell them they need to take their argument up with the dictionary, not you, since you didn't write the dictionary. Your struggle will be to keep a straight face in your desperate attempt to suppress your own laughter as you tell them this.

Another approach to take is to attack the immorality found in the bible. The following passages are an excellent choice;

Lev 25:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying, (establish the fact Jehovah himself is allegedly speaking here)

44Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

45Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

46And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

So here we have a supposedly moral god, telling us to buy slaves from surrounding nations, make slaves of little children, that our slaves become our property & that we can will such property to our descendants upon our deaths. And all this comes straight from the mouth of Jehovah, who also advises us to give our slaves a day off a week and not covet the slaves of our neighbors in the ten commandments.

So when engaging in a debate with a Christian who wishes to convert you, simply tell them you don't find slavery to be moral, you find it morally disgusting that a god would instruct us to make slaves of little kids, you do not believe it morally proper to own other human beings much like one might own cattle, as Jehovah recommends. Inevitably, you will be told that the slavery in those days was short term, since slaves could be freed at Jubilee every seven years. Politely point out that only applied to Hebrew slaves, since Leviticus 25 makes it clear slaves from other nations were owned for life and willed to descendants upon the slave owner's death. This also proves Jehovah was racist, since there were separate rules for Hebrew slaves, who could be freed at Jubilee, and the non-Hebrew slaves who could not. Extra points if such a discussion occurs in a church/state separation argument and you tell them they should be glad our government isn't based on the bible, otherwise you could enslave your opponent's spouse, parents and kids as your personal property! (HEHE! Yes I have experience in these types of debate!)

Alternatively, you could also appeal to science;

Mark 4:8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.

Now, the only way one could see 'all the kingdoms of the world' from a high mountain, would be if the earth were flat. On a spherical earth, all the kingdoms of the planet COULD NOT BE SEEN from a high mountain. Therefore, you can't accept Christianity since you know it is scientific fact the earth is spherical. Should the person respond by claiming this passage is figurative and not meant to be literal, you get extra points if you answer 'then so is the resurrection."

These are a few of my responses that have provided me with literally hours of entertainment. The good thing about engaging in these debates, is they will never ever realize they have been trolled strictly for your own pleasure.

It can also happen that rather than having a Christian attempt to convert you, they will instead attack whatever non-Christian religion you happen to be. Know in such instances that if you busy yourself defending your own religion, you will in fact lose the debate. Instead, change the subject and bring up some of the examples found here. This will change the nature of the debate, placing you on the offensive and placing them in the position of having to defend the bible and their religion, rather than you having to defend yours. At no point will they ever figure out their debate position went from offensive to defensive.

In other words, the best possible defense against Christianity is the bible itself. By all means use it to your own advantage and above all, have fun with it!

[SSanf]

LOL!! I sure don't want to get into an argument with you!

[David19]

Personally, if I came across a fundamentalist who said I shoul become Christian, I'd just ignore them, I mean, why would I need to waste my time and breath debating with them?.

They may not have a social life but I do.

[SweetIsTheTruth]

Personally, if I came across a fundamentalist who said I shoul become Christian, I'd just ignore them, I mean, why would I need to waste my time and breath debating with them?.

They may not have a social life but I do.

There could be numerous reasons, not necessarily having a thing to do with debunking Christianity. For me, such debates helped me to dispense with the last remaining vestiges of a Christian upbringing, although that was not the entirety of it. As a child. one may not necessarily have the opportunity, or know the methods, to counter certitude in others, whether that certitude be religious or otherwise. In engaging in such debates, particularly if carried out on a regular basis over time, one begins to learn much about people one might not have previously known, in addition to learning how to address certitude carried around by others. You begin to see the cognitive dissonance in some who, while pretending to take the moral high ground, completely gloss over things such as slavery as found in the bible and commanded by Jehovah.

In other words, although the point may appear to be simply to troll those of certain religious beliefs, there are all manner of lessons one can learn regarding people's beliefs, their responses to one's challenges of those beliefs and the psychological tricks people will play on themselves in order to reinforce the dogma.

Honestly, I haven't participated in such debates for some time, because my needs and reasons for doing so no longer exist.

[Fairy_Princess]

I don't argue, I say "That's nice, would you like a cookie now." No matter what they say. It really ticks them off and they leave me alone. I don't feel the need to convince their religion is shite, I just them to STFU and leave me alone mostly.

[SweetIsTheTruth]

It really ticks them off and they leave me alone.

HA! That's obviously provocative. But then again, any who would try to convince you there is something wrong with you from mere fact of being born, obviously has no concept of manners or social norms regarding communication, so in a sense, could most certainly be asking for provocation in response to the provocation they give out.

[Matsumoto]

I just randomly start speaking in toungs and praising the desolate one, as if I don't realize what's happening. It hasn't failed me so far. What's sad is I AM christian and these people try ton convert me from one form to another, and I'm like "are you SERIOUS?"

[Jolixte]

The last and only time I will ever bother talking about it, I said that I believed the Christian God was immoral because he would send a person like Gandhi to hell simply because of a belief, and that I wouldn't worship an immoral god.

[bigolalaskan]

I usually thank them, tell them I respect their faith, and close the door. Usually works well. In other circumstances, if the talk get to religion and there's bible thumpers around, I move on. Not worth the frustration.

My own opinion is: There is one supreme power. Its all how we all visualize it. I visualize it in a Goddess & God.

Christ's story has been told so many times, in so many different cultures. Just change the name and the region.

Do I believe his word according to the new testament? Can we stop laughing now? The bible, more so for the new testament, was a way to bring the masses under control. The human powers that be realized a single deity belief, one with severe and everlasting threat of torture, could (and did) change the masses from individuals with individual thought, to a bunch of sheep that could be herded and controlled. It helped christiandom rule and subdue the aboriginal population.

I believe the bible is a regional "history" of sorts. The bible was written for the cultures in the middle east. I'm not middle eastern so how could it apply to me? I'm from Celt and German descent. The christian religion never held water with me. Not once in the 46 years it took to finally educate myself and discover something that did call to my soul, give me faith, and give me freedom.

My 2 cents.

[David19]

I usually thank them, tell them I respect their faith, and close the door. Usually works well. In other circumstances, if the talk get to religion and there's bible thumpers around, I move on. Not worth the frustration.

My own opinion is: There is one supreme power. Its all how we all visualize it. I visualize it in a Goddess & God.

Christ's story has been told so many times, in so many different cultures. Just change the name and the region.

Do I believe his word according to the new testament? Can we stop laughing now? The bible, more so for the new testament, was a way to bring the masses under control. The human powers that be realized a single deity belief, one with severe and everlasting threat of torture, could (and did) change the masses from individuals with individual thought, to a bunch of sheep that could be herded and controlled. It helped christiandom rule and subdue the aboriginal population.

Just wanted to say, "eternal torture" is only found in Christianity and Islam, not in Judaism.