The Fox Question

[budhabee]

Hi All,
I wasn't sure where to post this. Seems here is as good as anywhere. I have an important question.
What does the (FOX) represent in Celtic Mythology? Also, has anyone heard as to why the "FOX ALWAYS COMES BEFORE THE DEER." I read that somewhere in a Celtic book, but it doesn't give a reason why? Does anyone know?
Thanks
Budhabee

[skilly-nilly]

I read that somewhere in a Celtic book, but it doesn't give a reason why? Does anyone know?
Thanks
Budhabee

What book? In what context?

There is a very nice book/cards that has animals:
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/druid-animal-oracle/
but I can't seem to google up the fox , stag, or hind cards for you to look at. They're in there, though.

This
http://www.brighidsfire.com/veil/Animal3.html
has a meme from both the Druid Animal Oracle and Animal Speak on a bunch of animals.

Wait--here's Fox:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/terrir/druid.html
the fox walks on the thin ice is the message.

Foxes don't prey on deer, so I don't see how 'coming before' has a meaning.

[MariThorn]

Try looking under Sionnach, that is the Gaelic for fox.

[Lolair]

Try looking under Sionnach, that is the Gaelic for fox.
Have you tried yourself looking in Wikipedia, Google or Sacred Texts?

Here's an entry on the Fox from the Carmina Gadelica: Sian Sionnaich (http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/cg2/cg2067.htm), but otherwise all I've been able to find are fables and folktales etc. You should be able to glean some info out of folktales, just type 'Fox' or 'Sionnach' into Sacred Texts (http://www.sacred-texts.com/search.htm).

[budhabee]

Thanks everybody, will try your suggestions. Yeah, I know the fox doesn't eat the deer but their is only something symbolic in that he comes before the deer and they are somehow sacredly linked. Also an ancient female shamen was dug up over in Europe somewhere who was holding a fox head in her skeletal hand.
Very curious anyway.
thanks for help
Budhabee

[budhabee]

Thanks everybody, will try your suggestions. Yeah, I know the fox doesn't eat the deer but their is only something symbolic in that he comes before the deer and they are somehow sacredly linked. Also an ancient female shamen was dug up over in Europe somewhere who was holding a fox head in her skeletal hand.
Very curious anyway.
thanks for help
Budhabee

[fay]

Have you thought about the fact that foxes often represent cunning? Maybe 'the fox always comes before the deer' is a reference to cunning being superior to speed, which deer are known for? Just a stab in the dark but I might be right. Let us know if you find out.

[Greybird]

Also, has anyone heard as to why the "FOX ALWAYS COMES BEFORE THE DEER."

Because Fox is inconsiderate of Deer's needs. Just like a fox!

_tomatoe_

[budhabee]

Ok Greybeard.....you Goof. (ha ha) Hi Fay, yeah they are known for that arn't they. I tell you why I'm asking. I woke up in a trance one evening and sat straight up in bed to find my bed and bedroom full of swirling mist. (This is not a usuall occurance, its only happened one other time.)

To my right sitting on the bed with her hands folded before her was the most beautiful little girl ever. She had on a white cap with ruffles all around it and her white dress was layered with rings of ruffles from her neck to her feet. A small red fox was curled up at her feet. I grabbed my heart and said, "Oh my God honey, you are the most gorgeous thing I ever saw in my whole life!" She looked down at her hands and kinda smiled. I plaintively asked, "Can I hold you." She held her little arms out and I picked her up. She was as light as a feather and about 15 inches tall. I held her to my breast and told her, "Aw Honey your so sweet."

Meanwhile I had forgotten about the fox. He stood up and looked behind me. I only noticed him for a little while then lost interest as a solid steel structure at the end of my bed became visible. It went from the floor to the ceiling and only covered 1/2 of the width of the bed. A hind stepped out grazing at bed level from behind it. God he had a rack. I gasped and the little girl asked me what was wrong. I told her I saw a deer.

"Uh Oh!" She said, "He get mad!"
"What should I do?" I whispered.
"Put me down." She said, so I sat her very carefully down where I had found her and I told her I was going to lay back down and pretend I was asleep. I saw no more sign of the fox. I lay down and closed my eyes when I felt the deer walking up the length of the bed. He blew all around my head and that is the last thing I remember. I guess I passed out.

Years later I read that passage, about the fox always coming before the deer. It made me look back at that trance and I thought somebody would know the hidden meaning of the why for that.

Budhabee

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I am going to answer, as I know where that statement came from...
There is a very Ancient Code system...there are number boundaries to the system...that statement, as well , the Fochse ( FOX ) , Faery , and
Deer, and the Story you told...all add up , within the Code...Here is your answer...The Fochse , is Woman's Mgieck...The Cunning Ones...
The Deer, is Male's Mgieck...In the Olde Language , they also dealt with two columns of symbols , and in the Mgieckal System I speak of...The Woman's column, comes first...Value for symbols = 603

603 = Faery, and Fochse , before
603 = Woman's Fochse Mgieck

Man's column = 391
Doubled = 782

782 = Crreayafth's Deer Mgieck ( Craft )

Spellings are from the Olde Faery Tongue...Blessings...You may PM me

And Do know...That was a Gift to your Awakening to the Code...Someday

[budhabee]

Hello Shawn Blackwolf,
Wow! How very very interesting. Is there a book on that somewhere? Not that I'm any good at numbers. But if its something not geometry related......cause I'm like DUH with math, I would like to get ahold of it.
Thanks for responce, I had never heard of this before.
Budhabee

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Not yet...It was always Oral Tradition...I have been working on it for 12 years...If you are really interested in what it is...look for my "Icebreakers " intro...In Introductions...It will give you a beginning idea...Just know...This is very different , from the publically published knowledge , on Runes , or modern Hebrit Qabalah..." Secret Tradition "...that is why , when people demand historical " Proof "...There is none...That is how " Secret Societies " , and Initiates , have always covered their tracks..." Mouth To Ear "...therefore...To everyone else...
it does not exist , therefore someone is a liar , crazy , or worse , when we try to reveal the keys...

PM me , after you read info...if further interested...Blessings on your path...

[budhabee]

Hi Shawn Blackwolf,

Oh dear! I do not know how to PM. I am brand new to the internet. Im surprised I was able to do anything. Sorry.
Budhabee

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Just put your mouse arrow on my name...left click...Choose send private mail...

[kotu]

This is an interesting thread! Mainly for me because I recently invented my own oracle deck. The Fox is the Emperor in my deck and The Doe (female deer) is the Empress. I hadn't heard of this before!

(Link on sig to the cards if you want to look)