Inner Conflict

[Silverfangs]

After some thinking I decided to post something that is concearning me in a way.

As I mentioned before in other threads I can't remember, my pagan path suffered a "gap" of scepticism.
Before that "gap", I was very keen on the hellenic panteon, havin a close relation with Athena. After the "gap" I started investigating some celtiberian gods related to Portugal, like Endovelicus, Ataegina and Trebaruna.

If in the beginning of this research and praying to those gods, I felt it was going well... but when I made a simple ritual celebration, I looked to my Athena sculpture and I kinda felted bad. Since then, I just keep wondering if I'm doing the right thing. I mean... this gods I was trying to make a connection with, are lusitanian gods, I thought I would more easily identify myself with them, than with the hellenic gods. Yet I kinda feel unconfortable with this new relation... like if I was abandoning someone that always cared for me.

So now I am divided between the Olympian Gods and the Celtiberian Gods...

Anyway... did any of you went through something like this? What do you sugest?

[Theres]

i can understand your conflict somewhat, and i don't think it is that uncommon.

i too experienced this feeling some time ago, as the path i found myself following was very connected to the gods of my homeland (England). i felt it necessary to make this connection as deeply as i could, but after a number of years realized that i had no true or deep feeling for the Celtic gods of the British Isles at all... not even a little bit. i finally decided to stop trying to force a cultural connection that (for me) just did not exist, and turned to the pantheon that had always fascinated me even as a child, the Greeks. this (along with a VERY strong signal from my Lady Hekate!) had the effect of totally altering my path and turning my spiritual world completely upside-down.

all of this is resolved now, and i've never been happier or felt stronger about my path. and all of this occured with absolutely no feeling of regret for me.

i guess the point of all this is that we will sometimes feel certain cultural obligations to follow the path of our earthly ancestors, but that needn't necessarily dictate the feelings of our spirit. if you are still feeling strongly about Athene i would suggest you continue to explore Her.

in any case i wish you happy resolution whichever road your choose.

[Silverfangs]

Thank you for your advice Theres. I think you said it all - "force a cultural connection". That is just what I feel... I guess it all depends in a lot of meditation and research to see what comes by... for now, I just keep having a strong connection to the hellenic world.

[Theres]

I guess it all depends in a lot of meditation and research to see what comes by... for now, I just keep having a strong connection to the hellenic world.
i didn't mean to summarily dismiss your exploration of the gods of your homeland, but yes, i think you are correct about meditation and research.

and good luck to you!

[Silverfangs]

And I did not assumed that :) I will still research and meditate about both roads before I start walking one of them. It is better than starting again and then realize it is not the best path.
Looking for "signs" is another way to try to find some answers. ;)

[Toby Stimpson]

Hmmm, I certainly can't match There's great advice, but can certainly add my experience to the pot and perhaps help you in some way :).

I started looking into wicca when i was 15, and I kinda sorta maybe honored this "wiccan god and goddess concept". But it never really stuck. I started becoming interested in the Morrigan and Kuan Yin, but only because of a song I had heard. Then I started looking at Morgan Le Fey, mainly because of the Mists of Avalon book and movie :p. So for the longest time maybe a year and a half I went in this way, and I wasn't really learning anything.

A year later I started talking and chatting with two people and they began a renaissance in me. I was maturing at the time and began to open my mind up. And I realized... I wasn't learning anything because I wasn't looking. I took these gods in name only... and a little of what they represented. So I wasn't really doing anything with them... and I began looking into Hinduism...which as we all know became my primary religion. But in the early days i sti9ll felt bad for not honoring Morrigan.

As I went through and learned more, I would sometimes get ahead of myself and try to learn TOO much which resulted in me being confused and I became skeptical at those points. I would overcome them, only by slowing down a bit and taking my time. Skepticism isn't the worst thing, doubt isn't the worst thing becasue they allow you to put things into perspective.

I certainly hope things turn out for you!

Namaste

Tobias

[Silverfangs]

Thanks for sharing your story. It is good to know I am not the only one that is confused... I guess it hits us sometimes in our lifes. :)


Peace!

[Fiamma]

After some thinking I decided to post something that is concearning me in a way.

As I mentioned before in other threads I can't remember, my pagan path suffered a "gap" of scepticism.
Before that "gap", I was very keen on the hellenic panteon, havin a close relation with Athena. After the "gap" I started investigating some celtiberian gods related to Portugal, like Endovelicus, Ataegina and Trebaruna.

If in the beginning of this research and praying to those gods, I felt it was going well... but when I made a simple ritual celebration, I looked to my Athena sculpture and I kinda felted bad. Since then, I just keep wondering if I'm doing the right thing. I mean... this gods I was trying to make a connection with, are lusitanian gods, I thought I would more easily identify myself with them, than with the hellenic gods. Yet I kinda feel unconfortable with this new relation... like if I was abandoning someone that always cared for me.

So now I am divided between the Olympian Gods and the Celtiberian Gods...

Anyway... did any of you went through something like this? What do you sugest?

I'm a Hellenist myself, and over the last few years I've had more than passing interest in the Norse, Finnish and Gaulish pantheons (I would have probably had a very strong interest in the Iberian Celts as well, had I been able to find any information on them til very recently...even then it's so limited...)

One thing you might want to keep in mind, and you may have considered this already...there's nothing to say that you must only worship the gods of one pantheon exclusively. While it can certainly be a bit of a challenge, I know a number of folks who worship deities of two or more pantheons and keep to culturally and historically accurate worship practices for each.

If you feel a pull to both of them, don't ignore it. Go with it and see where it takes you. One of the connections may be only for a specific time, or both may be with you forever. The gods will help you figure it out.

[RavenStars]

In the past I struggled with a goddess I was transitioning away from. It felt like I was betraying her, and that she was turning her back on me in disgust. I realize now that I was projecting my emotions onto her, and in fact felt guilty. But I feel now that she understood me and was in fact helping me get what I needed for the next phase of my life. As soon as I realized that the rubric of the Divine would have a new name and dominion, I felt healed. I still turn to Yemaya at times, she just isn't the goddess I work closely with any more.

Is it possible that you could continue to work with Athena, asking for her guidance as you explore that next phase of your life? I don’t think she’s a jealous Goddess, and I do think she wants the best for you.

[Garm]

These are deities, not spouses

I often feel awkward about shifting back forth in alliances

But sometimes one has to go off on another tangent for a year or more and then return later to pick up the thread

Often the break and the chance to get another perspective will add depth and more understanding to your relationship when you do resume later

No path in itself is sufficiently complete IMHO

[Willow Rosette]

I believe that sometimes the one we are meant to learn from at that moment is the one to come to us, and as we grow what we need to learn changes as well as who will teach us this lesson.

Having said that I totally believe in blending. I know alot of people dont but in my house you will find everyone from Bast to Buddha to Innana and Freya and Bridgid is starting to show herself as well. And everyone gets along wonderfull!!

When you find your own truth you will know what is best for you. :hugz:

[Silverfangs]

Thank you all for all your responses. I readed them carefully and started to see things a little more clearly.

Fiamma, about the Iberian Celtic gods you are right. Few information is published. There are few books, but they are all in portuguese I guess. On the net, not even in Portuguese websites I find a great amount of info. I guess that is why I feel more confortable with the Hellenic.
Anyway, I chose the theme of my final work in the University to be "The Celt-Iberian cults and traditions" (hope the teacher will accept it), where I will try to investigate more about their rituals, gods, and everything between.
Everytime I gather some information I'll try to translate it and put it here, with all the bibliographical informations.

... just one question - where is the best place in the forum to put my updated research?




Peace everybody! And once again thanks for your advises. :)

[Fiamma]

Thank you all for all your responses. I readed them carefully and started to see things a little more clearly.

Fiamma, about the Iberian Celtic gods you are right. Few information is published. There are few books, but they are all in portuguese I guess. On the net, not even in Portuguese websites I find a great amount of info. I guess that is why I feel more confortable with the Hellenic.
Anyway, I chose the theme of my final work in the University to be "The Celt-Iberian cults and traditions" (hope the teacher will accept it), where I will try to investigate more about their rituals, gods, and everything between.
Everytime I gather some information I'll try to translate it and put it here, with all the bibliographical informations.

... just one question - where is the best place in the forum to put my updated research?




Peace everybody! And once again thanks for your advises. :)

Research on the gods themselves would certainly have a home right here. Information about the religion overall would probably be most appropriate in paths though you might want to ask there for clarification.

It's very likely that you've seen this before, but in kcase you haven't...

E-Keltoi volume 6, The Celtss In The Iberian Penninsula

http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/index.html

Also, this is fairly new. I don't know how good the information is, and I've not been able to find anyone who knows enough to deny or substantiate (I would suspect though that there are some inaccuracies, I know that their Greek mythology leaves a bit to be desired, though it is not super-bad. I would suspect similar of the Iberian.) If you get a chance to look over it and comment (or it you've already seen it) I'd be interested in hearing how the information checks out with what you have.

http://www.timelessmyths.com/celtic/iberian.html

[Morr]

After being an Irish Reconstructionist for several years, I've gone through a transformation and had other Deities come to me, asking for my attention. This was a difficult transition for me -- Going from a hardcore, Irish only, path -- To opening up to a more eclectic path.

While I still define myself as an Irish Polytheist, that is, my Irish Gods come first and I live by the Ancient Irish ideals and customs (as much as I can in this modern era), I have opened up to the Kemetic Gods very much, to Mother Mary who is my guide, to the God of my Ancestors (Y-H-V-H) and service of my local Jewish community in honor of my Ancestors (which is a huge Ancient Irish ideal, by the way), and through it all mixing Kitchen and Green Witchery in.

I learned that it is OK.

If different Deities have something to teach you -- Let them. It doesn't take away from the loyalty or relationship you have with other Deities or cultures, it adds to your spirituality and personal growth.

Let your heart lead you to your Gods and Spirit Allies.

[Silverfangs]

If different Deities have something to teach you -- Let them. It doesn't take away from the loyalty or relationship you have with other Deities or cultures, it adds to your spirituality and personal growth.

Let your heart lead you to your Gods and Spirit Allies.

Thank you Morr, for sharing your personal experience and for your advices. :)

Fiamma, I didn't knew those links. Thanks for sharing them. The first one, I'll check it better latter since my time is running up (got a medieval archaeology exam tomorrow). For the second one, I think it is ok, but it has some information that it is incomplete or missing. For instance Ataegina was not seen as the goddess of the underwold, but of spring and earth. The god referred as to be the god of the Underworld is Endovelicus (wich is seen as having two sides - a dark and a light.).

I put here two links for the main attributes of these gods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endovelicus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ataegina

For the rest of the website, the only thing is little accurate is that they only refer to Spain when they talk about Hispania, instead of talking about the entire peninsula. For the rest I think it is okay (don't know about the possible roman/greek gods correspondency).

[coeur]

I agree with Garm. I do frequently shift back and forth as a chaote. They're not my spouses and I'm not married to them. Of course, I still treat them all with respect but I think they do understand that sometimes different deities of different traditions apply to my life better than others.

[Silverfangs]

I agree with Garm. I do frequently shift back and forth as a chaote. They're not my spouses and I'm not married to them. Of course, I still treat them all with respect but I think they do understand that sometimes different deities of different traditions apply to my life better than others.

That makes me go to the eternal discussion of - "aren't the gods of multiple cultures related by their archetypes?". I mean... The Celtic god of war, isn't the same entity as the Norse god of War, or something like that? Or are they really independent, individualistic entities, with just the same "occupation" that defines them? I guess this kind of God to God relationship is something very keen to the Roman world, that seems to hit me lots of times.

[coeur]

That makes me go to the eternal discussion of - "aren't the gods of multiple cultures related by their archetypes?". I mean... The Celtic god of war, isn't the same entity as the Norse god of War, or something like that? Or are they really independent, individualistic entities, with just the same "occupation" that defines them? I guess this kind of God to God relationship is something very keen to the Roman world, that seems to hit me lots of times.

While it's true that most cultures have deity equivalents of one another (Athena-Minerva, for example), it is important to note that not all cultures grew up in the same environment; thus, different deities have different applications as their followers needed different things from them. In other words, mankind continue to have the same type of problems, but different situations. I think that explains a lot of differences between different kinds of deities.

The Chinese needed deities different from those of the Native Americans; the Vikings needed deities different from those of the Greeks. It's a question of how people lived their lives and what was of central value to them. The Vikings were more nomadic than the Greeks, and the Native Americans were more nature-based than the Chinese. Likewise, some people today are more nomadic or business-based or nature-based or even technology-based. You may like your deities to speak to you through possession or perhaps you're more into the circle-triangle technique of High Magic?

[Silverfangs]

While it's true that most cultures have deity equivalents of one another (Athena-Minerva, for example), it is important to note that not all cultures grew up in the same environment; thus, different deities have different applications as their followers needed different things from them. In other words, mankind continue to have the same type of problems, but different situations. I think that explains a lot of differences between different kinds of deities.

The Chinese needed deities different from those of the Native Americans; the Vikings needed deities different from those of the Greeks. It's a question of how people lived their lives and what was of central value to them. The Vikings were more nomadic than the Greeks, and the Native Americans were more nature-based than the Chinese. Likewise, some people today are more nomadic or business-based or nature-based or even technology-based. You may like your deities to speak to you through possession or perhaps you're more into the circle-triangle technique of High Magic?

Thank you for your answer. Looking at things in that way I think you are right. :) I guess I understood what you meant. Putting into a (silly) metaphor, if a fire takes place in New York and other at Berlin, at the same time, both are resolved by firemen who run at the place. But, even beeing both firemen, they are still different firemen. They where raised in different places and cultural enviorments (I said it was a silly metaphor... lol).

Peace! ;)