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EvieLee
June 11th, 2007, 02:30 AM
I have a question that has been puzzling me for a while.

In a few threads here and in other places, when the traditions of Dianicism are raised there's usually an answer of "I'm not Dianic, but I'm a goddess worshiper/whatever."

I'm wondering, for those that don't define yourselves as Dianic, what do you think is the defining difference between you're path and a Dianic path? Is it just the politics and stereotype surrounding Dianic women that seperates you are some fundamental theological principal?

When I first saw the Dianic and goddess paths in the fork in the road, I resisted the Dianic label because "I'M NOT WICCAN" *foot stamp*. I was uneducated as to the various Dianic traditions because of a lack of up-to-date literature.

(Note: This may be confusing as I completely understand those that aren't exclusively devoted to a/the goddess but include the god as well. That's not what I'm talking about here, as there are Dianics that take that path too. And I hope this doesn't sound too much like a foot stamp gripe - I'm struggling with a uni paper which is causing frustration at the moment [hence my grumpy mood indicator]. :) )

LadyWillow
June 11th, 2007, 03:07 AM
For me, I'm just not quite sure of what I am. I started out as Wiccan, and well that's nice, but I'm not sure if I'll continue to be Wiccan or what not. I mean, I don't follow much of anything that is considered traditional for Wiccans, so am I Dianic or am I something else? I'm just trying to forge my own path really. I mean I'm definitely more drawn to goddesses. I'm just not big on god's, but I'm not completely sure what I'm really focused on at this point. I mean, if I knew more about the dianic path, then I may make a decision, but until then, I'll continue to be an oddball.

And I'm sorry if my ramblings seem just like ramblings, I probably should be in bed,lol.

Philosophia
June 11th, 2007, 03:13 AM
Dianic Witchcraft is a path of Goddess Worship, and tends to be more feminist, female orientated.

Here are some particulars on Dianic Witchcraft:

They are:

* Belief in female divinity, most often referred to as "The Goddess."
* Celebration of Celtic holy days.
* An underpinning of feminist ideology.
* A belief that women's bodies are sacred.
* An honoring of women's experience as authentic.
* An understanding that patriarchal society does not accurately reflect women's experience.
* No recognition of male Gods in ritual or elsewhere.
* A belief that only women-born-women truly understand women's experience.
From here (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=8359).

Goddess worship tends to be a general description for the veneration of a female Goddess or Goddesses. Unlike the Dianic tradition, it can be conservative, non-feminist, and usually not Wiccan.

Willow Rosette
June 11th, 2007, 04:09 AM
HUH thats interesting. I never really thought about it before. I always assumed that the Dianic tradition meant either leaving out or not believing in the God and the rest was similar. Off to check it out to see if I can find something. Thanks for the thought provoking since I cant sleep.

**Edit** Wickepedia is not the best but it is a start.

"Most Dianic Wiccans worship the Goddess only, acknowledging that She is the source of all living and contains all within Her. There are Dianic witches who practice other forms of paganism (possibly including honoring a male deity or deities) outside of their Dianic practice. Some Dianics are monotheistic, some are polytheistic, some are non-theistic.

Most Dianics worship in female-only circles and covens, but there are mixed-gender Dianic traditions. Eclecticism, appreciation of cultural diversity, ecological concern, and familiarity with sophisticated concepts of psyche and transformation are characteristic. Originally lesbians formed the majority of the movement, however modern Dianic groups may be all-lesbian, all-heterosexual or mixed.[2]

Some Dianic Wiccans as "positive path" practitioners do neither manipulative spellwork nor hexing; other Dianic witches (notably Zsuzsanna Budapest) do not consider hexing or binding of those who attack women to be wrong."

I dont see how you could be Dianic and be monotheistic.

Another one

http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Heights/5665/dianic.html

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usnc&c=trads&id=3278

http://www.carm.org/wicca/dianic.htm (there is that monotheistic thing again..Please explain that to me????)

OK so they all seem to be saying the same thing in general.

Can you be montheistic, meaning there is only one God, but it be only 1 Goddess?? I cant imagine a Dianic group thinking only 1 God and I have never heard of belief in only 1 Goddes. Worship yes but not saying none of the others exist. Hmmmmm

Fiamma
June 11th, 2007, 11:05 PM
Can you be montheistic, meaning there is only one God, but it be only 1 Goddess?? I cant imagine a Dianic group thinking only 1 God and I have never heard of belief in only 1 Goddes. Worship yes but not saying none of the others exist. Hmmmmm


Personally, I don't think that one makes any more sense than the other. But yeah, there are plenty of monotheistic goddess worshippers/dianics out there

Fiamma
June 11th, 2007, 11:07 PM
When I first saw the Dianic and goddess paths in the fork in the road, I resisted the Dianic label because "I'M NOT WICCAN" *foot stamp*. I was uneducated as to the various Dianic traditions because of a lack of up-to-date literature.



Well, I know that a LOT of folks don't consider Dianic traditions to be Wiccan for lack of acknowledgement and equal reverence to male divinity, because well, it really is a sorta revolving point of Wicca, what with the wheel of the year and the birth of the god, courtship of the god and goddess, fertility and all....

Theres
June 11th, 2007, 11:28 PM
* Belief in female divinity, most often referred to as "The Goddess."
then why "Dianic"? why not just "Goddess Worshipper"?


* Celebration of Celtic holy days.
this makes no sense to me whatsoever. can there be no Hellenic Dianics? (or whatever)


* An underpinning of feminist ideology.
okay, if you (they) say so. politics and spirituality have never blended well for me, but whatever.


* A belief that women's bodies are sacred.
i believe this and i'm not 'Dianic'. for that matter i believe that men's bodies are sacred too... does that make me "Zeusic"?


* An honoring of women's experience as authentic.
i believe this too, but again, i'm not Dianic.


* An understanding that patriarchal society does not accurately reflect women's experience.
see my last two comments.


* No recognition of male Gods in ritual or elsewhere.
this has never made any sense to me either, unless it is an attempt to burden the gods with mortal insecurities or (once again) politics.


* A belief that only women-born-women truly understand women's experience.
once again, this works for me and i am NOT Dianic.

Philosophia
June 12th, 2007, 12:03 AM
then why "Dianic"? why not just "Goddess Worshipper"?

Because Goddess Worship is an umbrella term and Dianic is a sub path of it.


this makes no sense to me whatsoever. can there be no Hellenic Dianics? (or whatever)

Predominantly it is the Celtic sabbats.


okay, if you (they) say so. politics and spirituality have never blended well for me, but whatever.

It tends to be a major part of the Dianic tradition.


this has never made any sense to me either, unless it is an attempt to burden the gods with mortal insecurities or (once again) politics.

First, it has nothing to do with mortal insecurities or politics. It may not make sense to you but for a great deal of people, including myself, it does.


i believe this and i'm not 'Dianic'. for that matter i believe that men's bodies are sacred too... does that make me "Zeusic"?

i believe this too, but again, i'm not Dianic.

once again, this works for me and i am NOT Dianic

It doesn't make you Zeusic. Did you read the rest of the Dianic link I gave?
What I gave is an extremely basic outline of the path. The rest of the path can be seen in the link I gave.

Here are some more (this is usually for Dianic Wicca but I go by these except for the Wiccan Rede concept):

The Dianic Tradition - Core Beliefs:
The Dianic tradition is a holistic religious system based on a Goddess-centered cosmology and the primacy of She Who is All and Whole unto Herself.
The Dianic tradition is a Women's Mysteries ritual tradition that celebrates women's life cycle events.
The Dianic tradition is celebrated in exclusively women-only circles.
Dianics honor women's voices, thoughts, and ideas.
Power is sourced through our wombs (or "womb space, " if a woman has had a hysterectomy).
Emphasis on the body of woman as manifestation of the Goddess.
Inspired by the nature and aspects of the Roman goddess Diana (and her predecessor, the Greek goddess Artemis) as a protector of women and wild nature, we are committed to finding positive life-affirming solutions for personal and global problems.
Dianic ritual and magical practices honor women's creativity, intuition, and ability to improvise (creative inspiration in the moment).
Spiritual practices are inspired by the awareness that the Goddess has been known throughout time, by many names, and in numerous cultures worldwide.
Dianics recognize that women's magick is a sacred trust. Therefore, Dianics do not teach our Women's Mysteries and magick to males.
Sexuality is sacred. When lovers meet in mutual love, trust, and equality, these expressions of love and pleasure are a gift of the Goddess.
Sacred play as a form of spiritual practice.
The Dianic tradition is a teaching tradition.
Adherence to the Wiccan Rede.
The mythic cycle of the Goddess is celebrated in the earth's seasonal cycles of birth, death, and regeneration, and as it corresponds to women's own life cycle transitions.

From here (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=uswi&c=trads&id=8451).

Willow Rosette
June 12th, 2007, 01:05 AM
Personally, I don't think that one makes any more sense than the other. But yeah, there are plenty of monotheistic goddess worshippers/dianics out there

But how would that be monotheistic when the deffination is belief in only one God? Can that mean only one Goddess?

Philosophia
June 12th, 2007, 01:09 AM
But how would that be monotheistic when the deffination is belief in only one God? Can that mean only one Goddess?

Monotheism generally means that it recognizes or "worships" one supernatural being, regardless of "gender".

Willow Rosette
June 12th, 2007, 01:15 AM
Monotheism generally means that it recognizes or "worships" one supernatural being, regardless of "gender".

Thank you.. That was the part I was not understanding. So is this still with the Christian concept that only one is "real" or simply only worshipping one?

Philosophia
June 12th, 2007, 01:23 AM
Thank you.. That was the part I was not understanding. So is this still with the Christian concept that only one is "real" or simply only worshipping one?

Your welcome. Usually its simply only worshipping one. Most of the Dianics I know openly state they acknowledge a lot of deities but they don't worship them. Some, though, won't acknowledge the Christian God or Satan but other Wiccans and witches do the same thing.

Willow Rosette
June 12th, 2007, 01:25 AM
Simply only worshipping one. Most of the Dianics I know openly state they acknowledge a lot of deities but they don't worship them. Some, though, won't acknowledge the Christian God or Satan but other Wiccans and witches do the same thing.

Thank you, although I knew we had a multitude of beliefs (obviously) I really didnt know this was one of them. I guess it just never crossed my mind since we are such an eclectic family.

Philosophia
June 12th, 2007, 01:32 AM
Thank you, although I knew we had a multitude of beliefs (obviously) I really didnt know this was one of them. I guess it just never crossed my mind since we are such an eclectic family.

Thats why I love this community. Not one person's beliefs are the same, and even within the Dianic community its the same. There are the hard core, eclectic, reconstructionists, male, etc..

Fiamma
June 12th, 2007, 03:04 AM
Your welcome. Usually its simply only worshipping one. Most of the Dianics I know openly state they acknowledge a lot of deities but they don't worship them. Some, though, won't acknowledge the Christian God or Satan but other Wiccans and witches do the same thing.


That would be henotheistic then. Monotheism is the belief in the existence of only one deity. Henotheism is polytheistic belief, with active worship of a single deity or very small group of deities.

Fiamma
June 12th, 2007, 03:13 AM
Predominantly it is the Celtic sabbats.


Interesting, I didn't know that the Dianics primarily celebrated only the Celtic days. I thought they usually still did somethign to do with the entire neopagan wheel of the year.

Philosophia
June 12th, 2007, 03:54 AM
Interesting, I didn't know that the Dianics primarily celebrated only the Celtic days. I thought they usually still did somethign to do with the entire neopagan wheel of the year.

Predominantly they do but it depends on who you talk to. Most of the time it's a variation of the Celtic sabbats, i.e. neopaganism. Some include the God and some don't. Others use Zsuzanna's sabbats or Shekinah Mountainwater's. I know a few Dianics who don't do the sabbats at all and usually stick with the esbats. But it really depends on the person involved.

EvieLee
June 12th, 2007, 09:39 AM
Just a quick note that I'm loving all your answers and will gladly be replying to everyone. I'm no troll honest. :) My paper deadline snuck up on me rather quickly, so after tomorrow I'll be back to be less troll like a sociable. :hahugh:

RainInanna
June 12th, 2007, 10:18 AM
Just a thought to remind us to please keep the rules of the Paths forum in mind in this thread - http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=113890


These threads are not for debate. We have a theology forum. These threads are to provide information and share information. I suggest if you are questioning another Path's principles then you do it in a more proper environment, such as the theology forum.

I'll come back to this thread later when the baby is not waking up from his nap :P

RainInanna
June 12th, 2007, 04:16 PM
I've been pondering my response here, and the more I think about it, the more I realize I may have just been avoiding the name "Dianic" because it is so controversial. This has become all the more noticeable when, while digging around for old threads on the subject, I saw that I had posted in so many in previous years; obviously I've had an interest off and on but didn't stick to it.

Fiamma
June 12th, 2007, 04:50 PM
Predominantly they do but it depends on who you talk to. Most of the time it's a variation of the Celtic sabbats, i.e. neopaganism. Some include the God and some don't. Others use Zsuzanna's sabbats or Shekinah Mountainwater's. I know a few Dianics who don't do the sabbats at all and usually stick with the esbats. But it really depends on the person involved.


Ah, the neopagan wheel. You throw me off by referring to it as Celtic, since four of those days are Celtic, and four are not. I know nothing of the other versions of the days, did not realize that they exist.

Willow Rosette
June 12th, 2007, 10:01 PM
Just a thought to remind us to please keep the rules of the Paths forum in mind in this thread - http://www.mysticwicks.com/showthread.php?t=113890



I'll come back to this thread later when the baby is not waking up from his nap :P

I hope I dont sound rude but I didnt think we were debating. I thought we were discussing what it meant to be Dianic and trading personal opinions on what that intailed.


Just a quick note that I'm loving all your answers and will gladly be replying to everyone. I'm no troll honest. :) My paper deadline snuck up on me rather quickly, so after tomorrow I'll be back to be less troll like a sociable. :hahugh:

Never thought you were a troll honey. Maybe a lurker would be a better word??? But your deadline is much more important. :hugz:

EvieLee
June 12th, 2007, 11:39 PM
Dianic Witchcraft is a path of Goddess Worship, and tends to be more feminist, female orientated.

Here are some particulars on Dianic Witchcraft:

From here (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_va.html?a=usxx&c=trads&id=8359).

Goddess worship tends to be a general description for the veneration of a female Goddess or Goddesses. Unlike the Dianic tradition, it can be conservative, non-feminist, and usually not Wiccan.

Ah, see that's where I was getting confused. When I think about it, it's similar to the Wicca / Paganism issue. I was under the impression that Goddess Worship and Dianicism were, well not interchangable, but on an equal footing. I didn't realise that 'Goddess Worship' was an umbrella term similar to 'Paganism'. So if the Dianic paths are a speicific example of Goddess Worship traditions (for lack of a better word) are there examples of any others?


Well, I know that a LOT of folks don't consider Dianic traditions to be Wiccan for lack of acknowledgement and equal reverence to male divinity, because well, it really is a sorta revolving point of Wicca, what with the wheel of the year and the birth of the god, courtship of the god and goddess, fertility and all....

Yes, I've found that too, although I've also found that there is a growing distinction between Dianic Wiccans and Dianic Pagans. Dianic Wiccans being those that incorporate a Goddess focus into Wiccan practices, and Dianic Pagans (an umbrella term in itself) those that have moved away from the Wiccan base specifically those that don't incorporate a God at all). Although the initial Dianic tradition was based in Wicca it jas grown and evolved quite fluidly.




On the monotheistic issue, I've always considered myself, as a Dianic, monotheistic. But maybe I'm using the wrong term. My practices revolve around one all encompassing divinity that is Goddess. That was always how I thought the Christian variation of monotheism worked. But I've known hard poly, soft poly, heno, etc Dianics as well.

Philosophia
June 12th, 2007, 11:54 PM
Ah, see that's where I was getting confused. When I think about it, it's similar to the Wicca / Paganism issue. I was under the impression that Goddess Worship and Dianicism were, well not interchangable, but on an equal footing. I didn't realise that 'Goddess Worship' was an umbrella term similar to 'Paganism'. So if the Dianic paths are a speicific example of Goddess Worship traditions (for lack of a better word) are there examples of any others?

Well, Goddess worship can literally mean anybody that worships a Goddess. So if a person exclusively worships Aphrodite, for example, they would be considered a Goddess worshiper. From people I know who claim they are a Goddess worshiper, any path that only worships a Goddess or Goddesses is generally considered one.

EvieLee
June 13th, 2007, 02:52 AM
I see. It was a mean question I know. Bit like asking for examples of Paganism. Thanks Philosophia. :hahugh: