Dealing with Christian prayer

[Russ]

So one of my Catholic friends has stated she will not stop praying that God brings be back into the one true religion. That she will be like "The Widow banging on Heaven's Gate demanding justice."

Sure enough when I go to a potential job to check up on things everyones acting like they have no idea whats going on. I got the situation under control. But it got me thinking and decided to share what I've learned.

Whenever Christians start praying for a Pagans conversion it seems then things go crazy for them. Job oppurtinities vanish, bills coming flying out of nowhere, health goes down. Basicly there life starts sucking harder and harder untill they convert.

Now this all squares with Chaos Magick theory. That to cast a spell on has to strongly believe it will work, have no doubt that it'll backfire and be able to workthemselves into an altered state. Christians do all of those in prayers to get people to convert: fasting, working themselves into a fit by repenting (Think Jesus Camp and how the worked themselves into a frenzy).

And before someone says there not all like that I'd like to respond in my own sarcastic way "and water is wet." :-D

We know this, but I'd like to focus on the ones out to convert us by any means necesary.

So when it looks like your the target of this kind of thing how do you deal with it?

As I live in the Bible belt with many friends praying for my conversion this is of major interest to me.

[Hærfest Leah]

I'm orgininally from the same bible belt, east Tennessee. I could care less what anyone is praying for for me. I ignore it and they can have at whatever they wish. It will not change my life one bit. Things only go wrong for you if you let them convince you it's going to until you convert.

[Sage Rainsong]

Hmm well I haven't had the same problem because I don't know too many fundie Christians but I have read about this before. I have heard of a practioner empowering a large black stone (I think that it was obsidian) to absorb the energy of the prayers comming your way. Obviously thats controversial but it could be worth a shot if you feel that you are having problems.

[Russ]

I dunno maybe after recent events I'm just paranoid...

Then again other pagan friends have cautioned me to be on the super defenseive and they tend to be right.

[EvieLee]

I've had the luck of having several strongly Christian friends say they'll pray for my conversion.

Nothing happened.

Their intentions were good. They were only trying to keep me from going to hell (as good friends tend to do).

It's not like whoever has the most members by the year 3000 wins or anything. Most religions come from a good place, imho, even the fundies.

[Philosophia]

I've had people pray for me. Nothing happened but I thanked them for their effort and good intentions. Personally, I take it as a compliment.

[MoonDust]

I've had the luck of having several strongly Christian friends say they'll pray for my conversion.

Nothing happened.

Their intentions were good. They were only trying to keep me from going to hell (as good friends tend to do).

It's not like whoever has the most members by the year 3000 wins or anything. Most religions come from a good place, imho, even the fundies.
I think this is great way of looking at things. As long as there is respect from both ends and one of us tries to be the bigger person we've done all we can do.

[Autumn-Forest]

My "friend", Beth used to tell me she is praying for me and my friends for a long time. She said she would pray every night for us. Its amazing how we can become every fiber of their life, thinking about us repenting, going to church with them, etc. I think its even a little obsessive. When have Witches and Pagans ever said that they'll do a spell for them for them to 'come back to the light' of the Pagan view. Never, I think if Christians weren't so gung-ho on converting us, we'd actually live in harmony. Beth pets me the wrong way, I know that, and I find her more of an annoyance than a friend because of her constant God naggings, I don't even talk religion around her because I know it'll be a fight, why would she persist on doing so?

Anyhow, I was a little confused about your question, you said that their health etc goes down, do you mean the Pagan or the Christian in the situation?

I have had this converting thing happen to me before, I just ignore it, but its annoying.

be well,
Autumn

[Garm]

One day at work I started getting that queasy, distracted and slightly naseous feeling I usually get when I'm under psychic attack

It was like "oh ---- who's on my case now?!"

It took me minute to remember that there was massive catholic youth day affair being held my city, thousands of them were doing their fourteen stations of the cross and what not

I don't think it was anything personal, but the vibes were making me ill

I put on some somewhat satanic goth metal nice and loud [Fuer und Licht by Umbra et Imago]

The atmosphere cleared up very quickly


Just be grateful you don't live next door to Pastor Ted

""We [Christians] have lost every major city in North America," Pastor Ted writes in his 1995 book Primary Purpose, but he believes they can be reclaimed through prayer - "violent, confrontive prayer." He encourages believers to obtain maps of cities and to identify "power points" that "strengthen the demonic activities." He suggests especially popular bars, as well as "cult-type" churches. "Sometimes," he writes, "particular government buildings . . . are power points." The exurban position is one of strategic retreat, where believers are to "plant" their churches as strategic outposts encircling the enemy.

[Author's footnote: Pastor Ted is aware that his martial plans alarm some outsiders; in Primary Purpose he writes that when he began his campaign for Colorado Springs, "spiritual warfare was not a popular subject. . . . I didn't speak publicly about my own experiences.""

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/4/24/134737/474

[Bettie]

Trying slapping them.

Or tell them that every time they offer up a prayer for you, you're going to sacrifice a goat, just to get back at them. Usually at that point they tend to start backing slowly away..... :)

[LadyCelt]

A while back, I used to pray for my parents to find God. I stopped doing it once I learned aobut free will. You also gotta remember they are probably not alone. I was fed, mainly by people online, that it was my job as a "good Christian" to bring them to god and save them from Hell. It made me feel like I messed up if I did not change them. It was a very hard time for me.

I think people need to be careful with prayer. I have someone in my life where I could see Artemis or Bast being helpful for, but I do not pray to them for her since she's Christian. I think it works both ways. People don't realize that prayer is something we need to be careful about. I pray to God for my Pagan friends, but not for conversion. I just pray for them like my Christian friends to help them out through hard times etc. But, it is also very difficult for the Christians in these situations too. I think the hardest part of it is that they feel they are helping and doing the right thing.

[DarkDancer]

why would she persist on doing so?

I think I can help you with that one.

Imagine you are standing in a house. There are a couple of other people in the house with you. One person is hanging a picture and trying to get it straight. Another is sitting on a couch watching television. Oh, did I mention that the house is fully engulfed in flame. You of course are fire prrof (saved) can't be hurt by the flame, however the others in the house, not so much, the tounges of flame are licking at their pants. They don't notice. So you try to convince them to leave the house. They don't see any reason to.

I think that that is how Fundie Christians see the world.

[MoonDust]

A while back, I used to pray for my parents to find God. I stopped doing it once I learned aobut free will. You also gotta remember they are probably not alone. I was fed, mainly by people online, that it was my job as a "good Christian" to bring them to god and save them from Hell. It made me feel like I messed up if I did not change them. It was a very hard time for me.

I think people need to be careful with prayer. I have someone in my life where I could see Artemis or Bast being helpful for, but I do not pray to them for her since she's Christian. I think it works both ways. People don't realize that prayer is something we need to be careful about. I pray to God for my Pagan friends, but not for conversion. I just pray for them like my Christian friends to help them out through hard times etc. But, it is also very difficult for the Christians in these situations too. I think the hardest part of it is that they feel they are helping and doing the right thing.

what a wonderful way to put it all.
It's good to remember that not all christians are a certain way just like not all pagans are.

[Autumn]

I don't worry about this, I set a shield around myself and my home and I keep it tuned to allow only loving energy to cross it. therefore the part of the payer for my general well being comes through but not the part about my changing my faith, no matter how 'they' intend it, it's coercive energy and it won't come through, it works for me.

[LostSheep]

I think that that is how Fundie Christians see the world.
that's what always seems to be forgoten whenever "Christians" are mentioned: not all behave like that. There's almost as many kinds of Christianity as paganism, but they're always painted with the same brush, it seems. I don't think I've ever met one of these kind of "Christians" (though there's not much to do with Christ about them, theirs is a very Old Testament view of things) in real life, outside of George W. bush (who i've never met either, come to think of it); again, I suppose, like extremists in, say, politics, they just get heard out of all proportion to their numbers because they shout the loudest.

""We [Christians] have lost every major city in North America," Pastor Ted writes in his 1995 book Primary Purpose, but he believes they can be reclaimed through prayer - "violent, confrontive prayer."

So is Pastor Ted (whoever he is) representative of all Christians? How many followers does he have? More than 3? And were those catholics actually causing any offense to anyone else, beyond just being Catholics?

[KylalaKitty]

Hmm well I haven't had the same problem because I don't know too many fundie Christians but I have read about this before. I have heard of a practioner empowering a large black stone (I think that it was obsidian) to absorb the energy of the prayers comming your way. Obviously thats controversial but it could be worth a shot if you feel that you are having problems.

Sounds like a good idea. I should try that. I never thought of it as a forum of psychic attack, but very well could be. I actually made a thread a while back asking if it was wrong for the Christians to "pray" for others, because praryer is a form of magic that they are doing against your will. Thats how I see it anyway, and I think its BS that they do that.

[LadyCelt]

^^^^ I'm not sure if the rule is universal or just Wiccan when it comes to magic, but I feel people need to consider free will. I watched a Christian program a while back where the host said she believes that praying in a bad way is like negative witchcraft. I think she's right. What works for one person may not for another. This is why I don't pray to the Goddess for my Christian friends. It just feels like it'd be wrong, so I don't do it.

[LacyRoze]

I've never prayed for anyone to be converted to Christianity and I never will. To me, your path is a personal choice to be made by you (general you) and you alone. I will pray for friends when they're having a rough time, hurting, etc. But to pray for conversion is just wrong to me. ...

[Vigdisdotter]

So when it looks like your the target of this kind of thing how do you deal with it?

The same way I deal with spells from pagans. Shields, reflective defences (besides my personal shields) and bindings.

[inkywitch]

The same way I deal with spells from pagans. Shields, reflective defences (besides my personal shields) and bindings.

I'm gunna say DITTO... when I feel the need.

Most of the time, I don't really feel or see any ill effects on my life for people Praying for me. Though, I haven't had too many people try and save me, tbh.

I Shield daily, just because I pick up a lot of emotional dirt and bullcrap around the place and I work in Massage Therapy, so it's good to protect me and my client that way.

That may be the reason I've not really found much effect from it. Or maybe they need to pray harder :P

[Vigdisdotter]

That may be the reason I've not really found much effect from it. Or maybe they need to pray harder :P

Probably a bit of both :) I also shield 24/7, only way to stay sane ~_^

[ap Dafydd]

Not that I've ever had a Christian threatening to pray for me but if I did, then I'd just regard it as a chunk of good wishes coming my way and let my own spiritual certainty spin it into just that.

Much rather have them praying for me than turning up with a can of petrol and a large stake!

gwyn eich byd

Ffred

[Piney Boy]

If these people are TRULY your friends they would not push so vehemently for your conversion. Anyone who is so blinded by a path that they can not see all of us are unique spiritual creatures seeking our own forms of truth is an extremist in my mind. I don't condemn any spiritual forms or training as long as they accept equality of all. When someone tries to force his or her will on my mind or reasonings then I will seperate myself from them.

[Sequoia]

Whenever Christians start praying for a Pagans conversion it seems then things go crazy for them. Job oppurtinities vanish, bills coming flying out of nowhere, health goes down. Basicly there life starts sucking harder and harder untill they convert.

Some of the most rescuing things that have happened to me have come about because a group of people were praying for me - and that group happened to be Christian.

Not all Christians are Teh Evilz. I imagine that if people were praying to change you, and that you were resisting, the energy would be a little bit odd. But that doesn't mean that Christianity or Christian prayer is bad.

I'd suggest to you that you take the energy coming from it (which is essentially a positive energy - they want to "help", in essence, as they fear what they don't understand is harming you) and use it to your advantage. The more you fight against a lot of energy work, the worse that fight is going to get, especially with the mass of energy behind it being the Christian church - say what you will about Wicca and Neo-Paganism, but those big boys have been around for two millenia, and there's some right strong energy there.

I say, use it to your advantage. Imagine that it's just more positive energy bolstering you forward. Use it like a wave - surf, don't drown.

[Russ]

I take it you didn't read this part of my post...


And before someone says there not all like that I'd like to respond in my own sarcastic way "and water is wet." :-D

We know this, but I'd like to focus on the ones out to convert us by any means necessary.

[River]

I have tried to take it as a compliment, as in they care so much about me that they would pray for me blah blah blah.

But honestly, I am offended by it. Especially when my friend does it, it makes it seem like she doesn't actually accept me, she only tolerates me.

And yet I feel obligated to brush it off, whereas if I offered to do a spell or ask the goddess to be with her, she would give me this whole big speech about how it would be wrong.

Double standard, much?


It makes me feel like a stain on the friendship.

[Vigdisdotter]

Double standard, much?

Have you ever pointed that out to her?


It makes me feel like a stain on the friendship.

I have a number of non pagan friends. Hell, I'm dating an Anglican. Yet we are all able to accept we each believe differently. I have no problem with my christian friends praying for me, because I KNOW what they are preying for: my happiness, my health, NOT for conversion.

To be perfect honest (and blunt) you might want to examine if the friendship is worth the cost.

[Jadewynd~]

I wouldn't take much offense to it but, that is me. I believe any prayer that is done with good intentions isn't bad.
But, no matter how much a person prays for conversion of a friend or family member it is in vain. A persons spiritual development it between that person and their maker. No amount of prayer can change that person unless they want to change.

[Russ]

I wouldn't take much offense to it but, that is me. I believe any prayer that is done with good intentions isn't bad.
But, no matter how much a person prays for conversion of a friend or family member it is in vain. A persons spiritual development it between that person and their maker. No amount of prayer can change that person unless they want to change.

I always have a good response to this one. If the spells/prayers/ect. have no effect on the person unless they want it to work.

Why be against love spells. After all by this logic the spell will only affect the girl or boy if they want it to.

Mind you I'm not advocating the use of love spells. I just follow this it only works if
"they let it" logic to it's conclusion.

[Jadewynd~]

I always have a good response to this one. If the spells/prayers/ect. have no effect on the person unless they want it to work.

Why be against love spells. After all by this logic the spell will only affect the girl or boy if they want it to.

Mind you I'm not advocating the use of love spells. I just follow this it only works if
"they let it" logic to it's conclusion.

I deal with conversion on a yearly bases by some family members but, not many. I am of a earth base faith and my husband is of jewish faith. My family is of a Christian base so, I have learn to deal with it by my own method. Love them , and pray for their own self realization that maybe they will be respectful of my own spiritual development. Guess what, it seems to have worked. I do run into some members that still try and convert but, that's all they can do is try. They are not hurting me unless I allow it to hurt me. I 've accepted there are some people that will not understand my way nor will I'll live their way. But, the answer is to know it, and accept that is them and this is me and move on. Worry about yourself and change what you can in the world but, don't force it. It's too bad that there isn't more people who believe in this; live and let live.

[Russ]

So then it's okay to cast a love spell, or any other commonly considered unethical spell because it will only hurt the victim if "the let it"?

[Jadewynd~]

So then it's okay to cast a love spell, or any other commonly considered unethical spell because it will only hurt the victim if "the let it"?

:huh: No , where did you get that from? I wouldn't recommend it but, everyone has different practices.

[Russ]

LOL Jade (mind if I call you Jade?) I think we need to slow down before we lose each other.

To make it clear I don't advocate those things. It's just when I hear this "don't let it" it sorta implies that anyone on the receiving end of the whamy deserves to be whamied. ESPECIALLY if the "don't let it" doesn't give advice on how to "not let it." I do not mean equally vague "choose not to let it" either.


To answer some other questions. The person having the trouble was the pagan, these incidences would occur to such a point it passed being passed of as just a run of bad luck. (Keep in mind the Bible says God will use tragedy and suffering to draw people to him. Many Christians thus when they pray and fast on some level may focus on this and there fasting, praying and repent can work up massive energy levels; or so say my Chaos Magician friends).


A few of my favorite defenses.

An iron chariot right out of the Bible God couldn't over come a tribe that had chariots of iron. (Obviously you want a small one that's about alter sized).

Thor's hammer. According to legend Christ is afraid of Thor and flees from him. Also obviously being buddy buddy with Thor works.

Of course your standard banishing, shielding and warding.

Finally this little Has-Been-A-Heathen-In-Denial-For-Far-Too-Long counter attack! Force there energies to be focused else where.

[Sequoia]

I always have a good response to this one. If the spells/prayers/ect. have no effect on the person unless they want it to work.

Why be against love spells. After all by this logic the spell will only affect the girl or boy if they want it to.

Mind you I'm not advocating the use of love spells. I just follow this it only works if
"they let it" logic to it's conclusion.

I'm not against love spells, I just think they're moronic. Mostly for the reason mentioned above - you can't trick, force, or otherwise unduly influence someone into loving you. Not truly.

Besides that, having to do a "love spell" in the first place is pretty pathetic.

[Lady Valkyrie]

I've had enough of the Christian prayers trying to convert my arse to last 3 lifetimes because of my cousin who is one of those holy rollin, toungue talker Christians. It was that type of Christianity that made me see that yes there is Magick even within some Christian sects whether they want to admit it or not doesn't matter. So when I've come against my cousin's conversion prayers I work up my own prayers with props (spells).

[LostSheep]

Thor's hammer. According to legend Christ is afraid of Thor and flees from him. Also obviously being buddy buddy with Thor works.
.
:eyebrow: ? What's the source for that? Is it derived from the Vikings or something?
Would a 1st century Jew have been aware of Norse mythology?

[David19]

:eyebrow: ? What's the source for that? Is it derived from the Vikings or something?
Would a 1st century Jew have been aware of Norse mythology?

I doubt Jesus, or most Palestinian Jews at the time, knew who the Vikings or the Norse were, let alone their gods. It probably comes from Norse folklore or something, probably from the time of the conversion, I think I've read that during the Christian conversion, there are records of priests being confronted by Odin and Thor and also of Thor and Jesus, although I haven't got a source for that, maybe someone else will?.

[dragoncrone]

I haven't had anybody offer (or threaten) to pray for me in a long, long time. When I was younger I would have been uptight and possibly gotten in their face about it. "Let me get this straight - you worship a god that controls you by fear and guilt - of which my practices have none - and you're going to pray to him, for me??"
But now in my threescore-and-some years on the planet, my usual response is a smile and a nod followed by a speedy exit. However, I must say, if for instance I worked with someone that was witnessing on me every fricken day, that would be kind of like Chinese water torture,,,drip drip drip,,,which just wears on you and uses up energy.
The same way you feel when you're stuck in a carpool and have to listen to music that you hate...

[EvieLee]

To add a nice turn to this thread, I had a wonderful prayer "threat" on aa trip to Japan in high school.

At the Hiroshima Peace Museum an old woman came up to and handed me a card. On it it had written in five different languages "May I pray for your soul's peace?" (or some such). It was so beautiful you couldn't help but say yes and she sat me down on a bench and put her hand on my head to pray.

Not exactly relevent to the OP, I know, but nice to consider yes?

[Jadewynd~]

LOL Jade (mind if I call you Jade?) I think we need to slow down before we lose each other.

To make it clear I don't advocate those things. It's just when I hear this "don't let it" it sorta implies that anyone on the receiving end of the whamy deserves to be whamied. ESPECIALLY if the "don't let it" doesn't give advice on how to "not let it." I do not mean equally vague "choose not to let it" either.


To answer some other questions. The person having the trouble was the pagan, these incidences would occur to such a point it passed being passed of as just a run of bad luck. (Keep in mind the Bible says God will use tragedy and suffering to draw people to him. Many Christians thus when they pray and fast on some level may focus on this and there fasting, praying and repent can work up massive energy levels; or so say my Chaos Magician friends).


A few of my favorite defenses.

An iron chariot right out of the Bible God couldn't over come a tribe that had chariots of iron. (Obviously you want a small one that's about alter sized).

Thor's hammer. According to legend Christ is afraid of Thor and flees from him. Also obviously being buddy buddy with Thor works.

Of course your standard banishing, shielding and warding.

Finally this little Has-Been-A-Heathen-In-Denial-For-Far-Too-Long counter attack! Force there energies to be focused else where.


Yes you can call me Jade :smile:

Ok, back tracking....:chattin: I think understand were you are coming from now. Statements like "don't let it" or "choose not to let it" you don't understand how it is possible without a guideline to get you there. It comes from a discipline mind, which takes time to develop. Similar to how a martial artist student breaks a board with their hand. Or, a person that walks on glass or hot coals. You wonder well how is that possible .It is the same with the mind; mind over matter.

So, yes they can pray for your conversion all they want do you think it is actually going to work? Who really has the control you are them? Hope that made sense-lol. :collapse:

[Willow Rosette]

So one of my Catholic friends has stated she will not stop praying that God brings be back into the one true religion. That she will be like "The Widow banging on Heaven's Gate demanding justice."

Sure enough when I go to a potential job to check up on things everyones acting like they have no idea whats going on. I got the situation under control. But it got me thinking and decided to share what I've learned.

Whenever Christians start praying for a Pagans conversion it seems then things go crazy for them. Job oppurtinities vanish, bills coming flying out of nowhere, health goes down. Basicly there life starts sucking harder and harder untill they convert.

Now this all squares with Chaos Magick theory. That to cast a spell on has to strongly believe it will work, have no doubt that it'll backfire and be able to workthemselves into an altered state. Christians do all of those in prayers to get people to convert: fasting, working themselves into a fit by repenting (Think Jesus Camp and how the worked themselves into a frenzy).

And before someone says there not all like that I'd like to respond in my own sarcastic way "and water is wet." :-D

We know this, but I'd like to focus on the ones out to convert us by any means necesary.

So when it looks like your the target of this kind of thing how do you deal with it?

As I live in the Bible belt with many friends praying for my conversion this is of major interest to me.

Im just now seeing this thread but Im confused. My life does not go bad when a Christian prays for my conversion. I honestly dont mind because in their way they are simply praying for my happiness. I think if someone looks at it as "Damn they are praying again my life is going down the drain", then it will.

As always something only has a power of you if you allow it to. Their prayers only have the power to add love and happiness into my life and not take it away untill I change my beliefs.