Discussion thre for Wiccan Ethics

[SilverClaw]

Please read and post your comments in this thread thank you :)
http://mysticwicks.com/showpost.php?p=3158954&postcount=4

I will be back to post my thoughts soon.
Oh one thing I do ask is do you think these things like the Rede and the Three fold law only apply to your spiritual / religious practices or do you think it applies to all areas of your life?

[Lyrien]

Hmmm....

I am not now, nor have I ever been Wiccan, so this somewhat clashes with my own personal belief system. However, I will do my best to keep the thoughts separate, yet coherent.

Three fold law: I do not believe that my actions come back to me amplified. I believe that you receive what you put out.

Rede: I don't like the Wiccan Rede in that it is impossible to function without harming something. Viewing it as an ideal, and not a law is probably a better interpretation, although it does set you up for failure. I view the rede as another way to communicate the golden rule. In almost any religious path there is a version (http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm) of this sentiment. I love the concept, I just feel it's badly worded in the rede.

Both of these do not only apply to my spiritual practices, it is universal thru life.

[Lyrien]

Sorry, a phone call distraction caused me to forget that there was more to comment about.

Karma: Again, I view this the same as you get what you put out. It may or may not come back before the end of this life. AND if your entire life is spent hurting people for your own personal gain (or some other such example) then your payment most likely will come to you in another life. The same is true about past lives. If your current life is habitually horrible, perhaps you are paying a debt. Or if it's particularly wonderful, perhaps you are being rewarded.

Fate: Not a fan of the typical concept. I view it more in the same line as Karma, not that your life is planned to the letter.

Soul and Spirit: I've always used these interchangeably and probably shouldn't. I believe I have a soul, yet I don't believe that my tomato plants do. However, they do have a life force that probably could be called a spirit. Perhaps the spirit is the general life force of our existence...our world. A life force that is present in all things, including us. We, as souls, just play in the life force. Ooooh, deep thoughts.

Permission: A way of asking the life force/spirit if you can use it for your gain. (possibly worded badly) Generally a good idea to do.

[Mitsuko]

On the Threefold Law and Karma:

I believe in this, mostly because I've seen the results, good and bad. Those things can also be chalked up to Karma, which I also believe in. More or less these two are the same. What you do comes back either to help you or to kick you in the bum at the worst possible moment.

On Fate:

I'm not sure if I believe in Fate, because it almost negates the "Free Will" idea. If everything that happens is fated, then you're more or less stuck to a path from the moment you're born to the moment you die, and there is no getting off. You might take different routes to get there, but you still end up in the same place. Free Will, which humans are supposed to have, allows us to pick up and choose a completely different path.

On the Rede:

The Rede does not command us to "harm none". It tells us that any action that will harm none is acceptable. The Rede is not a law. "Rede" means advice. I doubt human words will ever be able to express a truly perfect law of ethics.
I agree completely with this.

On the Soul and the Spirit:

I'm fairly sure that these two are very close to one another. The soul is supposed to be the essense of you, what you are, who you are. If you look at the definitions of the spirit, its more or less the same.

On Asking Permission:
It is the polite thing to do.

[~NightFire~]

I'm not Wiccan by the way... :)

*The Threefold Law;

I believe that if you do bad things, then sometimes it will get back to you (it depends I suppose). But I don't think that it will always be 3 times as bad, & I don't believe that it will always come back to you either.

*The Wiccan Rede;


The Rede does not command us to "harm none". It tells us that any action that will harm none is acceptable. The Rede is not a law. "Rede" means advice. I doubt human words will ever be able to express a truly perfect law of ethics.

I also agree with the above statement. :)
I think that you should always try your best not to harm anything, or anyone-you won't (& can't) always succeed-but as long as you're trying your best! :hahugh:

*Karma;

I do believe that good things can happen to good people, & that bad things can happen to bad people.
But I also believe that good things can happen to bad people, & that bad things can happen to good people.
So...I don't know really! :lol:

*Fate;

I believe that some things are meant to happen (but-depending on what you do in your life-may not), & that some things aren't (but again- they may happen, depending on you).
But I believe that you can't control everything, & that the Universe/outside forces can't control everything either.
However, I do believe that everything happens for a reason (cause & effect-it might be physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, good, bad, whatever).

*Soul & Spirit;

I believe that everything (living/in nature/etc) has a Spirit (life force/energy/etc) inside it.
But when I think of a Soul, I see as more of a Christian concept I suppose-something that goes to Heaven or Hell (which I don't believe in) when you die.

*Asking Permission;

Yes-you have to be polite.

All of the above applies in every area of my life. :)

Also; am I the only one who can't connect to some of the links for this lesson when I click on them (it could just be my annoying computer)?

[Sofya]

On the Three-Fold Law: My view is, whatever you put your intent(energy) into becomes stronger(charged). Its power is amplified. If left up to Fate, the outcome might be different, but if you mess with the natural course, you'd better be ready for powerful and unpredictable results. This law is a good reminder to "be careful what you wish for" to think a request through, consider all the possible ramifications.

The Wiccan Rede: Same as above, a reminder to consider all the possible harm, a chance to decide if the request is worthy, to be more specific in your wording.

Karma: A decription of how your choices and requests change your course, the vehicle for the energy you put out.

Fate: This describes the way a choice or request you make keeps effecting your life course, like in one of those choose-your-ending books, each decision you make alters the final outcome, so choose wisely.

Asking permission: Helps keep perspective, a little humbleness never hurts, an attitude if entitlement can hinder the free flow of energy. Also, it's one last chance for you to weigh the worthiness of your request, if you ask for permission, and don't feel it was granted, it's time to go back to the drawing board, so to speak.

All of these apply universally, I believed in all of these concepts before I had any idea there were real witches still. 8O

[maudlin]

i think of the wiccan rede as having a "chaos" like effect, ie a butterfly flaps its wings in tokyo and theres a hurricane in california. what you think you are doing maybe good, but really could have disastrous results if you do not think it all the way through. this could also apply to the threefold law.
but i do believe in it and try to adhere to it as much as i can.

fate: i believe in fate. but i dont believe in predestination. if that makes sense. i think everything will end up a certain way. like you will get to the end of the tunnel, or road and whatever is at the end of it is supposed to be there for you, but what path you choose to take is your own choice.
(also: another analogy that might not be as circular: you know you are making chicken and mashed potatoes and carrots for dinner. this is the preset end result. you could choose to make the chicken first, then the carrots then the potatoes, or you could do the potatoes, chicken and carrots, etc. its the same concept. end result is the same, path is different)

soul and spirit:

everything has a spirit, an essence if you will. the trees, sky, earth, even the buildings. i believe in this idea more firmly.
i think the soul is a concept of who we are, as people, beyond our physical bodies. i think of the soul as more of a religious concept, like we are accountable to ourselves because of the fact that we have a soul. it seems strongly christian to me, like i have to be good because if im not my soul will go to hell after im dead. i dont know if i believe in it as strongly as i do the idea of a spirit. but im still working these things out.

asking permission:
i think its necessary, due to the fact that everything has a spirit. no one wants to be infringed upon by another, so we shouldnt do the same to other things.

if im being unclear in any of these, let me know. i have an issue with being circular in my explanations sometimes. maybe due to the fact that i was a philosophy major for entirely too long.

[Sofya]

Spirit/Soul: I feel that everything (visible and invisible) is infused with an energy that is beginning to be recognized and understood by the scientific community. I believe that the "soul" is a description of self-awareness of higher forms of life. I'm not sure that the difference between a human being and a mass of space gas is that great, I don't apply that much superiority to my physical form versus any other form of matter(or anti-matter), but now I'm getting into some deep metaphysics and my brain is starting to ache. :hahugh:

[LIGV]

What is the Threefold Law?
Hi everyone! Well to me the Threefold Law basically is the good old "what goes around, comes around" or newton law "every action has an equal or stronger reaction" I think that's how it went. Anywways, like it has been said before, I do tend to believe in it, I sort of lets you believe that they'll be justice made in the future for wrong doings, but belive me sometimes I wonder if its true, cause' I try to be a good person, but still see bad people beeing a lot happier and successful than me... hmm.
What is the Wiccan Rede ‘An ye harm none; do as thou wilt’? And what is it meaning?
All you can to is try. I feel that more than a belief, is a way of life. But, you can only try, why, it's so so so easy to hurt somebody that sometimes you don't even realize it. You don't really want but it just happens or on the other hand... Sometimes BEACAUSE you don't wanna hurt somebody else it is you who ends up getting hurt. A friend of mine once said. "trying is just an excuse, you can either do something or not do it " but in this case I think that theres a lot of gray area.
What is Karma?
"Karma is a wtch, and she bites" we have that saying sort of. I belive in Karma as a matter of fact I believe that I'm carrying over some bad Karma from another life, because no matter how I try can't get things right on this one. :yayah: But, yeah I do belive in Karma there has to be a justice system in the world.
What is Fate?
Believing in Fate brings a whole new sets of believes, like "if everything is predetermined was the use, no matter what I do I'll die beeing in debt and lonely" just to set an example. Takes the whole joy out of life, and then brings questions on why then I was delt this hand. Maybe there is somekind of fate, but I believe is according to the paths we choose, sort of a action and consequence thing. I you keep on the current path this will be your out come. OR you are destined for something but there are different ways of getting there and those are the decissions you make daily. So as you can see I have mixed emotions about fate. It was fate, is a good out clause for a lot of things that happen in life, seems to easy.
What is Soul and Spirit?
I think that the vocabulary is too limited to explain what are the soul or spirit. I've always thought of them as one of the same really.
Asking permission?
To me is a matter of respect, but it's something that it's personal to everybody's believe system really.
:spaceman:

[merrydawn]

I view The Threefold Law and Karma similarly. They are basically saying that whatever you do, it will come back to you.

The Wiccan Rede: I view it as you do what you want as long as it doesn't harm anyone. If you do something to harm someone then it goes back to the Threefold Law and Karma.

Fate: I believe in fate to a point. For example, it can be fate for you to meet "that special someone," but it is your choice (free will) what happens after you meet.

Spirit and Soul: I've always thought of the spirit and the soul as the same thing in humans. I've always thought of animals as having spirits but I've never really thought of animals as having a soul. I guess I think of soul as a human type of thing.

Asking Permission: I guess I've never really given a lot of thought about asking permission. It is definately the polite thing to do. I'll have to work on this.

[one of mist]

Merry meet,
I must first say sorry about the spelling, I have had a rather busy day and the brain does not work so well on three cups of coffee.....

to me the Three fold law and Karma are very similar, what you put out into the universe will come back to you, be it good or bad.
The words "So mote it be" are there to help stop/ reduce the effects of unintentional harm.?

The Wiccan Rede is there to remind us not to intentionally harm, be it human, animal or plant. (hurt is something no one can avoid,during this life time no matter how hard you try or how carefull you are you will hurt someone.you just can not please everyone all the time )

Fate is one that I find hard to explain, if something is ment to be then no matter how hard you try to avoid or change it, or make diffrent choices some things are going to happen. Sort of like the important stuff will happen and it is ment to be no matter how hard you try to change it.

Spirit and soul mmmm I thing everything has a life force and if you call it spirit or soul it does not matter but that you recongise that a life force is there then that is all that is needed.

Asking permission is very important and I usually am rather straight forward in my conversations so sometimes am seen as being rude ( by humans).

I am enjoying this course thank so much for doing it.
:)

[Caitlin.ann]

I've taken a few days to answer these questions as quite frankly I wasn't sure what my own stance on them were. :)

The Threefold Law: I don't believe in a Threefold law per se, so much that "whatever you do will come back to you". I don't think it will be three times as good or bad as the previous action, but it will be lesser or greater in intensity. I hope that made sense, lol, I wasn't sure how to word that.

Karma



Spiritual cause and effect. It's often interpreted as meaning that good behavior will be rewarded, and bad behavior will be punished... if not in this life, in some future reincarnation.

What you wrote in the lesson thread, Hymnia, summed my belief in Karma up. I've believed in this view of karma for a long time now, and I really can't add to what you've stated about it in the lesson thread. I also equate this with the Threefold law.

Fate:

I believe the things in life, the major things which are meant to happen, will happen. But I think the little day to day stuff are controlled by the individual person.


Soul and Spirit:
I've always used these terms interchangeably to mean the ethereal essence of the individual. This is the part of the person which will move throughout incarnations and whatnot, etc. And has been stated before, I believe that everything has a lifeforce/soul. :)


Asking Permission:
I've rarely asked for permission, which is something I need to work on. It is the polite thing to do, but sometimes that slips my mind. :)

I'm also enjoying this class and I can't wait for the next lesson. :)

[MoonRain]

Threefold Law & Karma

I believe you get what you give in any situation. I believe it falls under the laws of attraction; if you send out negative energy/actions you will receive negative energy/reactions in return (same thing for the positive side). As Belleshazar said, I don’t believe that your action/energy is returned amplified. However, having said that, I also think that if you truly believe the threefold law to be fact then, yes, that is what will happen for you. The subconscious mind is a very powerful thing.

Wiccan Rede

I believe the Wiccan Rede is a guideline; not just for magical workings but for everyday life as well. If your intentions are good, then that is what is important. Mistakes can be forgiven.


Fate

There was a time when I believed that a persons’ life was dependent upon “gods will”, then I learned about free will…and then I got really confused. I’m a little lost when it comes to this topic; I believe we all have a purpose in life but whether or not that comes as a pre-determined plan created by the Divine is still up for debate. Maybe that is where free will and reincarnation come in? The Divine programs each one of us with a purpose then using our own free will we do our best to achieve that purpose. Our souls are then reincarnated at the end of our physical lives as many times as is needed to achieve the aforementioned purpose…and speaking of souls

Soul and Spirit

I too believed these words could be used interchangeably to describe the life-force within a person. Hymnia, your definitions of the two makes sense.

Asking Permission


‘Tis important to ask permission always…no ifs, ands or buts.

[Lady Valkyrie]

The Wiccan Rede is merely advice not Holy Law. The word "rede" actually means wise advice or wise counsel. The Wiccan Rede has become very dogmatic nowadays. I believe that a person should be able to do what they want so long as they are not harming an innocent child or an animal. The only way I accept the harming of an animal is if the animal is harming you or if it is going to be eaten for food.

I do believe that sometimes what goes around comes around... what do I call this philosophy? I don't rightly know... all I know is that sometimes when you give out good you get good in return... sometimes when you give out bad you get bad in return... and sometimes it doesn't matter whether you are freakin good or bad you don't get jack crap in return....I don't know... Some really evil people in this world don't seem to get what they deserve and some people who just give selflessly of themselves don't get so much as a pat on the back or a thank you in return... it's almost a roll of the dice at times. Will people get what they deserve in the next life? One can only hope.

[dancingfaerie]

Threefold Law & Karma
I have always believed in this. If you do something whether it be good or bad, it will come back at you.

Wiccan Rede
I have always lived by this. I try not to harm things intentionally.

Fate
I have never really thought about this. I have never been sure whether or not I believed in fate. Maybe its a good time to start thinking about it.

Soul and Spirit
I have always thought of spirit and soul as the same thing.

Asking Permission
It is the polite thing to do. Its disrespectful not to.

[yarrow_elfglow]

Karma/Threefold Law:

I think they are the same thing. No matter what you do, it can be good or it can be bad, but it will come back to you. it always does.


Wiccan Rede:

You should do no harm to others

Fate:

Fate is something that happens in your life that you have no control over.

Soul and Spiri:

I think they are both the same thing

Asking Permission:

Is defently a must.

[KageMori]

To me i belive in the three fold law, karma, and soul/sprit, and asking permisson

as for fate and the wiccan rede or however thats spelled im not all the big on. I understand that if you doing something that you should really try not to harm anyone and stuff like that but really like somebody said before sometimes it just cant be avoided.

Like you harm plants and stuff when you pick them to be used for spells or potions or whatever.

and as for fate i really just dont like to think that im not in control of my life. i like the idea of what happens to me happens because i did it to my self. i dont like thinking that my whole life was planned out long before i was born.

[Arinya]

On the Three-Fold Law: I do believe that the type of energy we put out returns to us and that the amount we recieve increases as the amount we put out increases. If you do a lot of good things and a few bad things you'll attract more good energy to yourself than bad - but there will still be some bad although how bad it is can vary really. I don't, however, believe that the idea of what you do returns to you in exactly three-fold. I think there are definently degrees as well as overtime effects.

The Wiccan Rede: A nice idea and general guideline but as stated, just some advice.

Karma: I don't believe in karma whatsoever - I believe that we are here to learn and progress spiritually through "life lessons". If someone in this life learns the true meaning and value of guilt because they murdered someone I don't believe a punishment for the murder will be carried out in there next life BUT the knowledge learned will remain as a part of their higher self. Karma, in my opinion, was an idea created to subjugate a lower class of people.

Fate: I don't think all things are preordained but I do believe that there are higher beings that on occasion might guide us to go down a path that will benefit or help us to learn but that in the end we do what we want.

Asking permission: A good idea but not always necessary.

And by the by I'm not Wiccan, only here to learn about Wiccan ideas. :)

[SilverClaw]

*bump for new students*

[Starduster]

The Three Fold Law:
I've always believed this because I know first hand that it is true.

ex: I was once given too much change after eating in a restaurant but didn't realize it until I was about to leave. I decided to keep the extra change. The next week I lost a 50 dollar bill....and never found it.

So I seriously try not to mess with this law, lol!

Karma:
see above. Seriously I have bad Karma and have felt for years that I must not have been a good person in a previous life.

The Wiccan Rede:
If your actions do not harm (including yourself) than it is acceptable.

Fate:
I believe in fate but I also believe we can have an impact on it.

Spirit and Soul:
I believe we have them........I have to.

Asking Permission:
I certainly believe in politeness. However, I see i've taken so much for grated. That will have to change.

[FOREST SAGE]

Three fold law....yes i believe what goes around comes around...what you send out does comes back ..weather it be bad or good depends on what you sent out...

Fate: i do believe that we were given free will...but lol...we were given a choice what path we choose..how can i explain this....OK imagine standing on a road..in front of you are several path ways...which one you take is entirely your choice..all up to you..this is freedom of will...but all the path ways are fated...predestined...did that make sense? only way i can put it in words...lol

Soul and Spirit: i think you cant separate the two...to me their one and the same...

Asking Permission: its always polite to do so..

[FOREST SAGE]

sorry i skipped one...opps...

The wiccan rede....yes i beleive not to do harm to anyone..