My boyfriend isn't...

[blackroseivy]

...doesn't get it, laughs at it even - I think he may be an atheist. To him, we are "animals with cognition". He is so lost. Truly, he is - he is prone to depression (well so'm I - I'm bi-polar but on meds & very stable); he is so far away from Divinity, & here I am in the midst of re-discovering it!

He's read all the "holy books" & says that "they all say the same thing" - which is true to an extent, but he doesn't seem to really be absorbing their MEANING at all... *sigh*

So, how do I deal with this?

I am being as patient as I can with him. I know that he is entitled to his views - I don't want him to be exactly like me (or I might belong to a Monotheistic religion!). But to accept a little bit more meaning into his life - THAT would be something because he really needs a shot in the arm.

As I say here, I am NOT trying to "convert" him by any means - I just wish we could get along better, & that I didn't have to feel the need to - well, not hide my beliefs exactly, but just that I can't seem to really talk to him about them & that makes me unhappy.

Any thoughts out there?

[Endless Rain]

I think you guys should learn to respect each other's beliefs. Maybe a conversation? Where you tell him your views and he tells you his.

[Fairy_Princess]

Who said that because he finds religion ludicrous that he is far away from Divinity? Perhaps he is closer to it than most.

Most religion is pretty ridiculous when you spend too much time thinking about it.


They you come across in your post though, it sounds like passive evangelism. That kind of an attitude can make a skeptic into a smartarse in a heartbeat.

[Silverfangs]

I think you guys should learn to respect each other's beliefs. Maybe a conversation? Where you tell him your views and he tells you his.

Indeed. Don't push him to much or it will result in the opposite. Try to respect the way he looks at Life. Lack of faith in the divine doesn't necessarly mean unhappyness/depression. Maybe you could try to make him feel better going another path, taking another way, talking with him about other matters that don't involve religion. Just don't feel bad for your faith not corresponding with the one of your boyfriend. People are diferent and look to things diferently.

Good luck to you both! :)

[Drouach]

Dump him.

I wouldn't advise someone with Bi-polar to go out with someone prone to depression.

Failing that, lead by example.

You can't control him, so the next best thing is to be happy and properous in your spiritual activities.

[blackroseivy]

Indeed. Don't push him to much or it will result in the opposite. Try to respect the way he looks at Life. Lack of faith in the divine doesn't necessarly mean unhappyness/depression. Maybe you could try to make him feel better going another path, taking another way, talking with him about other matters that don't involve religion. Just don't feel bad for your faith not corresponding with the one of your boyfriend. People are diferent and look to things diferently.

Good luck to you both! :)

THIS IS WEIRD - he showed me THAT MOVIE you have in your banner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blackroseivy]

Dump him.

I wouldn't advise someone with Bi-polar to go out with someone prone to depression.

Failing that, lead by example.

You can't control him, so the next best thing is to be happy and properous in your spiritual activities.

LOL I find the 1st part of your post FUNNY! (Ludicrous??)

However, the 2nd part seems quite sensible, so thanx!! :D

[Glory]

They're his views. He's not "lost". If he's sad, he'll deal with it.

Seriously, though, I know you don't feel like you're converting him, but it's like you feel his beliefs are invalid. He can be an atheist and happy, so if you truly want to help him, allow him to feel happy within his own beliefs.

[MoonDust]

THIS IS WEIRD - he showed me THAT MOVIE you have in your banner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's a good movie.

[~*Sacred*~]

Dump him.

I wouldn't advise someone with Bi-polar to go out with someone prone to depression.

Failing that, lead by example.

You can't control him, so the next best thing is to be happy and properous in your spiritual activities.

Lets lock up all people with mental illness and not educate ourselves on how they are people to. That makes more sense. Who needs support for a mental illness anyway? Now THAT is ludicrous. *insert sarcasm here*

First, I would delve into finding if he is trying to get the upper hand on his depression. Without control over a mental illness, it's hard to be understanding on a lot of things in life.

If he is stable, I would have a sit-down. Your religion is important to you and while he doesn't agree with it you would like for it to be treated with respect instead of mockery, just as well you shall treat his beliefs or lack thereof with respect.

[Nocturna]

Some people are atheists out of cynicism and despair. I understand this because I’ve been there.

But others are atheists and perfectly content with that. Some people are atheists and depressed, but the depression has absolutely nothing to do with their atheism. If you’re sure your boyfriend really is depressed, have you considered that maybe his dissatisfaction has nothing to do with his beliefs?

As far as his attitude towards your beliefs, I wouldn’t put up too long with someone who laughed at my spirituality. On the other hand, as other people have suggested, that might be his reaction to your attitude towards his atheism. Maybe you could just call a truce and steer clear of spiritual topics with him. Admittedly, this can be difficult in an intimate relationship.

Just my 2 cents and some things to think about. Obviously you know more about your relationship with him than anyone here.

[Philosophia]

I agree with those comments, i.e. that all religions are virtually the same and that we are "animals with cognition". They are his views only and, unless he is forcing them onto you, then I would just let it be.

[Silverfangs]

THIS IS WEIRD - he showed me THAT MOVIE you have in your banner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then he has good taste :hahugh:
Pan's labyrinth/El laberinto del Fauno is a great movie... teaches a lot about the importance of Fantasy and Dreams.


Peace!

[Shanti]

Leave him be and live your life. Your are individuals, not Siamese twins.
Be individuals and where there is common interest, then share.
My mate is a car fixing freak. I don't care about cars. He knows it too and thus he doesn't share his latest new leaky hose find with me.

I don't bother him with the details of my latest sewing adventures either.

But we have a lot of other things in common and there we share all the time.

[Fairy_Princess]

I's a good thing to be different from you SO. Imagine if he was YOU exactly you in always but in a male bod.... Could you live with yourself???

I know the thought of dating myself scares me pantsless. Thankfully Ninakins is pretty much the opposite of me. She actually cares about people.

[Drouach]

Yes two people prone to depression is a GREAT MATCH!

I am only speaking from rela life experience. One couple I was close to - it was a disaster.

So it's no so ludicrous.

It's like to people with the same problem coming together, it's somtimes a bad mistake. Not always though.

So yeah thanks for thinking DEEPLY about my post.

[Fairy_Princess]

In the United States in 2007 I'd say that realistically that at least 3 out 5 people meet the criteria for being "Prone to depression" as it's the new favourite excuse for everything and whenever someone feels bad because their life is shit (you know when you SHOULD feel bad?) they diagnosed as having depression!

When that in mind I'd say the likelyhood of 2 people who fall into that category being together is quite high....

[Vigdisdotter]

So, how do I deal with this?

You don't. It's something that he has to do on his own. If he asks questions, then of course you can answer, but ultimately you can't DO anything to move things along.

As for being laughed at....I wouldn't take it personally. If it really bothers you leave the room and if he asks why you are doing so, then calmly explain what about his response you found hurtful, then LEAVE the room. Don't make an issue out of it. Dealing with your feelings is antoerh thing he's going to have to come to on his own, and once you've told him how you feel and why, anything else would be flogging a dead horse and probably worsen the situation.

[Annest]

...doesn't get it, laughs at it even - I think he may be an atheist. To him, we are "animals with cognition". He is so lost. Truly, he is - he is prone to depression (well so'm I - I'm bi-polar but on meds & very stable); he is so far away from Divinity, & here I am in the midst of re-discovering it!
?
He is lost because he doesn´t share your belifs?!
Just because your belife makes you happy doesn´t mean that he has to belive the same to be happy. So he doesn´t belive like you do, and that makes him lost? No, that is plain wrong. I know you wrote you don´t want to convert him, but in my eyes it really looks like that.

Anne

[~*Sacred*~]

Too many people would rather shun than support.

[DarkWater]

Quoting because someone has always said it better.


Then Almitra spoke again and said, "And what of Marriage, master?"
And he answered saying:
You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when white wings of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together, yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

Taken from Khalil Gibran ~ The Prophet from the third chapter entitled "Marriage"

[Annest]

Too many people would rather shun than support.
No disrespect, but I will not support something that I belive is wrong.

[Willow Rosette]

I think instead of putting the blame on him for not being open minded you should be gratefull for what you have and respect his beliefs. But respect does not include forcing him to be "interested" in your beliefs.

[PaulKrul]

It might be a good idea to think for yourself why YOU belong to your path. If you know why you belong there and have really thought about it, then you can tell him your reasons.

In my case it would be because though we are mere animals capable of cognitive thinking, part of that cognitive contains urges for spiritual, social (ritual) and intellectual seekings. Which is what led me to Druidism. It does not matter if my beliefs are correct, scientifically or otherwise, what matters is that it helps me be a more complete being.

In my opinion atheism and paganism have no reason to be hostile to each other. Paganism is atheism combined with spiritual elements and a more defined set of values in life. If your boyfriend does not care about spirituality, then he can not be forced to participate with your religion. But if you both respect each other then that should not matter.

[~*Sacred*~]

No disrespect, but I will not support something that I belive is wrong.

I'm a little confused....I was speaking of depression, so with your answer it sounds like you are saying depression is wrong.

Perhaps we got our wires crossed and misinterpreted too much.

[Annest]

I'm a little confused....I was speaking of depression, so with your answer it sounds like you are saying depression is wrong.

Perhaps we got our wires crossed and misinterpreted too much.
Obviously! I am most certainly not saying that depression is wrong. I read your post as if you meant that all here should support the original posters view on her bf, (being lost and so on), and that was what I replied to.

[RainInanna]

I feel that way sometimes, but then I remember it is perfectly normal for two people to have different interests in a relationship and find other outlets to express them. I've learned that my SO and I have have so many other common interests and I love him for so many reasons, that I can accept he's not spiritual. That's why I have other relationships - family and friends - with whom I can discuss things I might not discuss with him.

[~*Sacred*~]

Obviously! I am most certainly not saying that depression is wrong. I read your post as if you meant that all here should support the original posters view on her bf, (being lost and so on), and that was what I replied to.
Ah yes, just crossed wires :) That makes more sense to me, LOL! No, I wasn't saying to support the OP's view on her bf, I think it would be best to be accepting and respectful of each others views.

[Silverfangs]

Quoting because someone has always said it better.

Then Almitra spoke again and said, "And what of Marriage, master?"
And he answered saying:
You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when white wings of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together, yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

Taken from Khalil Gibran ~ The Prophet from the third chapter entitled "Marriage"



:hahugh: No words. Just beautifull!:hahugh:

[Athena-Nadine]

I can't help but thing that someone who would accuse someone else of being "s lost," of being "so far away from divinity," and of "not really absorbing their meaning at all (in regards to "holy" books," is just as close minded, if not more so, than the person being complained about. Who is to say that he has to absorb some specific meaning from anything? Why must he feel connected to some divine power in order to not "be lost?"

Maybe he is perfectly content with his own beliefs and views of the world and life and everything else. Maybe he doesn't need anything else to feel connected to the world in his own way. Not everyone needs or wants that.

Making fun of someone else's beliefs is disrespectful and should not be tolerated, but neither should unwelcome evangelizing, of any religion or path. There is no difference in the first post than there is in a Christian complaining that I am so misguided, lost, and need help finding Jesus. Acceptance and respect is a two-way street.

[blackroseivy]

It might be a good idea to think for yourself why YOU belong to your path. If you know why you belong there and have really thought about it, then you can tell him your reasons.

In my case it would be because though we are mere animals capable of cognitive thinking, part of that cognitive contains urges for spiritual, social (ritual) and intellectual seekings. Which is what led me to Druidism. It does not matter if my beliefs are correct, scientifically or otherwise, what matters is that it helps me be a more complete being.

In my opinion atheism and paganism have no reason to be hostile to each other. Paganism is atheism combined with spiritual elements and a more defined set of values in life. If your boyfriend does not care about spirituality, then he can not be forced to participate with your religion. But if you both respect each other then that should not matter.

Very thoughtful & well-put - I thank you for that. :D

[blackroseivy]

I can't help but thing that someone who would accuse someone else of being "s lost," of being "so far away from divinity," and of "not really absorbing their meaning at all (in regards to "holy" books," is just as close minded, if not more so, than the person being complained about. Who is to say that he has to absorb some specific meaning from anything? Why must he feel connected to some divine power in order to not "be lost?"

Maybe he is perfectly content with his own beliefs and views of the world and life and everything else. Maybe he doesn't need anything else to feel connected to the world in his own way. Not everyone needs or wants that.

Making fun of someone else's beliefs is disrespectful and should not be tolerated, but neither should unwelcome evangelizing, of any religion or path. There is no difference in the first post than there is in a Christian complaining that I am so misguided, lost, and need help finding Jesus. Acceptance and respect is a two-way street.

I never said that he "had" to do anything - only that the idea is, it would be nice if he could. That's all. I'm just sorry I put things so badly here, because it came out reading totally unlike what I meant at all.

[cheddarsox]

If your boyfriend is indeed lost, and has something vital missing from his life, than him seeing your practice and how it enhances your life is likely to get him interested.

But sometimes people who have something that they love, just can't imagine how someone without it can be happy, even when they are.

The best way to show what you have is worthwhile is to let it shine in your own life. Live your life as an altar to what you believe.

And, to be sure, you have things to learn from his take on life as well, we all have much to learn from others.

You can't force this kind of thing. Even though it seems like it would be convenient if he was into it with you.

[Fairy_Princess]

I never said that he "had" to do anything - only that the idea is, it would be nice if he could. That's all. I'm just sorry I put things so badly here, because it came out reading totally unlike what I meant at all.


Once again, this thinking is can lead to a form of passive evangelism. It would be nice for YOU is he did, but perhaps it wouldn't be be "nice" for him....

[Pythagoras_FD]

Well how much of an issue is it in your relationship?

Incompatable attitudes about spirituality can indead make for incompatability in a personal relationship. It is not a character flaw, it is just the way things are.

If it is not that much of an issue, then just leave it be. Let him know when his disagreement crosses the line to disrespect and be prepared for him to do the same to you.

[Vigdisdotter]

Incompatable attitudes about spirituality can indead make for incompatability in a personal relationship. It is not a character flaw, it is just the way things are.

I would say that is also depends on HOW they are "incompatible." For example, I'm a Germanic Heathen and my boyfriend is an Anglican. Common sense says that we are incompatible, yet we respect each other's views and have WONDERFUL conversations about religion and spirituality.

Sometimes incompatibility is in the mind, and not a reality.

[Pythagoras_FD]

I would say that is also depends on HOW they are "incompatible." For example, I'm a Germanic Heathen and my boyfriend is an Anglican. Common sense says that we are incompatible, yet we respect each other's views and have WONDERFUL conversations about religion and spirituality.

Sometimes incompatibility is in the mind, and not a reality.

That is why I said incompatability in attitudes not incomapatability in systems.

Although sometimes attitudes and systems get blended together enough to produce the same result.

[Vigdisdotter]

That is why I said incompatability in attitudes not incomapatability in systems.

Although sometimes attitudes and systems get blended together enough to produce the same result.

That's just it. I don't see a distinction between the two, since one influences the other and visa versa.

Also how we perceive the expressed attitudes has as much to do with it as the attitude itself.

[Pythagoras_FD]

That's just it. I don't see a distinction between the two, since one influences the other and visa versa.


Influence is not the same as determination. To say otherwise is to suggest that ALL practitioners of a religion must and do have the same attitudes about those that disagree with them. A suggestion that is manifestly false on its face.

Influences can and do produce tendancies, and recognizing these tendancies is completely valid. But there is most definitly a distinction between the tendancies of influence and the determination of causality.



Also how we perceive the expressed attitudes has as much to do with it as the attitude itself.

Often in human behaviour perception is significantly more of a determining factor than reality.

[Vigdisdotter]

Influence is not the same as determination.

I never said it was. I said I don't see religious belief and attitudes towards as being separate.


Often in human behaviour perception is significantly more of a determining factor than reality.

Sure it is, but that is a choice made by the one perceiving.

[Fiamma]

Paganism is atheism combined with spiritual elements and a more defined set of values in life.



How do you figure?

I know atheists with far stronger and better-defined values than most religious folks I've ever met.


Atheism is being without religion, without belief in god.
Paganism is a collective term for about a zillion different religions. Regarding what they are and aren't, the two are mutually exclusive.