How Did Your Gods Become Gods?

[IrishDancer]

In your various beliefs, how did your gods become gods? Were they once men? Do you believe you'll become a god? Or, like Christians, do you believe your god always was?

[brymble]

mine took a correspondence course and applied for a certificate of godhood online.

[Toby Stimpson]

Its a good question. Well to be honest when it come to Christians, they dont have any scriptural evidence as to where God came from, so for those I have met they just say that it doesn't matter where God came from, just that he created Humans.

In my belief system, There are sooo many legends. I mean, Shiva for example is said to have been created or manifested from Vishnu (in the Vaishnava traditions)... in Shivite traditions he is said to have just appeared infront of Brahma and Vishnu at the beginning of the universe.

Durga is said to have been either a primordial force, or to have been formed from all the other Gods. She's also said to have been a manifestation of Pavati. Kali too has a LOT of legends.

Ganesha is said to have been created by Parvati inorder to guard the door of the room she was bathing in.

Muruga is said to have been born from the left over semen from when Shiva made love with parvati for the first time. Another legend states that he was originally conceived by shiva, but was transferred into several other wombs.

Ayyapa was said to have been born from the union of the female form of Vishnu, Mohini and Shiva (who did not recognize Mohini for who she actually was.)

Krishna was an earthly manifestation of Vishnu (or just brahman), same with Rama.

Now in Hinduism this is the interesting thing... I suspect many Gods were actually ancient leaders and Kings who became deified. I mean there certainly are ideas about Gurus and Kings being manifestations of the Gods. Rama, being a manifestation of Vishnu, and Hanuman being a form of Shiva.

[RavenStars]

I don't know how else to say this but... In my view there was a big "BANG" and the Divine as I understand it came into being. The gods of our world are aspects of this event, mirrored in our image (but no less Divine) or at least in ways we can understand. In some traditions the gods came from heroes, in others they always were. We are all of the imminent Divine.

[IrishDancer]

Its a good question. Well to be honest when it come to Christians, they dont have any scriptural evidence as to where God came from, so for those I have met they just say that it doesn't matter where God came from, just that he created Humans.

Actually, the Bible's pretty specific when it comes to God's origins, it's just really hard to wrap your brain around. "Always" is a hard concept, since humans have a beginning and we see new life's beginnings all the time. But God makes it clear in the Bible that He *always* was and *always* will be. He existed before time, before the world, before light, and He says specifically that He is the A, the Z, the first, the last, the alpha, the omega, etc, etc.

So, God tries to make it really clear, I just think it surpasses human understanding. But, like RavenStars mentioned, I guess there are other traditions where gods always were? So maybe this isn't exactly foreign to pagans.

As far as the Hindu stuff you were describing, that's really interesting! I love hearing about all the traditions. My mom talked a lot about Celtic heros that were said to have become gods or were said to be giants. We're allegedly related to Fionn mac Cumhaill, who's said to be a giant and immortal and all kinds of stuff.

[Fairy_Princess]

They stayed level 70 for so long they jsut sort of ascended and gained a second character class to augment their first, when the second class reached level 70 they were deified.

[cartweel]

My gods came from here - *points at chest*
came through here - *points at head*
and went up there - *points at sky*
and also down there - *points at ground*

[IrishDancer]

My gods came from here - *points at chest*
came through here - *points at head*
and went up there - *points at sky*
and also down there - *points at ground*

Wait, so you invented gods?

[SoulFire]

All gods are manmade. OTOH, the gods have always been gods. ;)

[Lolair]

My gods are part of the earth, existing as long as the earth has. Their actions affect her cycles, so they are a part of her - not separate from her. Perhaps they are her children, perhaps they are aspects of her, but they seem quite distinct to me. Other deities are more like spirits, guardian spirits of forests, lakes, rivers, hills, trees... they are as old as what they protect. Perhaps there was/is a master planner in all of this - the fates are some of the oldest deities known, feared by the other gods, maybe they had a hand in it ;)

[cartweel]

Wait, so you invented gods?

In a sense, yes, and in a sense, no. SoulFire has captured part of the conundrum of it all. This is the way I logic it: We as humans have created the Gods--or more correctly, our relationship with the Gods--throughout our history. They are, in a sense, personifications of the sort of archetypes that Jung described that have gained a sort of individuality and personal energy through our interaction with them. So, in a sense, we have created the Gods.

OTOH, as SoulFire says, the Gods have always been Gods. They are what has come from Earth and the Universe and what gives us life. They are the energy and power "behind the Veils" or the "mystery" that was born with the Beginning. This God/mystery in our hearts as life-force *points at chest* is translated through our unconscious, our culture, our awareness, and our abilities as beings of this world *points at head* and becomes the Gods as we know them *points at sky and earth*.

(Obviously this is only my interpretation and it falls at the softer end of the hard vs. soft polytheism spectrum. Take from it what you will.)

((Edit: Now that I've sat and thought about it, I think trying to logic it so much sort of defeats the point, in a way. This is where the spirit enters into things.))

[Anubis RainHawk]

Perhaps it might help to look at Starhawk's blog article http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/starhawk/2007/05/religion_is_a_human_construct.html might be helpful

[childofbast]

They stayed level 70 for so long they jsut sort of ascended and gained a second character class to augment their first, when the second class reached level 70 they were deified.

LOL! Love the WOW humor.

Anyway, I think the Gods are nature spirits or spirits of place or abstraction.

I worship Irish deities, for the most part. There was an interesting thread about them here... On whether or not people considered them Gods. I do consider them to be Gods and/or fairies. The myths speak of them as having great power or of having huge proportions. Some people say they came from a flying ship of sorts, others that they came from Spain... Where the Gods came from doesn't matter as much to me as what they represent, though. Like... I don't feel I need to validate the Gods I worship, only what they stand for. Does that make sense?

[IrishDancer]

In a sense, yes, and in a sense, no. SoulFire has captured part of the conundrum of it all. This is the way I logic it: We as humans have created the Gods--or more correctly, our relationship with the Gods--throughout our history. They are, in a sense, personifications of the sort of archetypes that Jung described that have gained a sort of individuality and personal energy through our interaction with them. So, in a sense, we have created the Gods.

OTOH, as SoulFire says, the Gods have always been Gods. They are what has come from Earth and the Universe and what gives us life. They are the energy and power "behind the Veils" or the "mystery" that was born with the Beginning. This God/mystery in our hearts as life-force *points at chest* is translated through our unconscious, our culture, our awareness, and our abilities as beings of this world *points at head* and becomes the Gods as we know them *points at sky and earth*.

(Obviously this is only my interpretation and it falls at the softer end of the hard vs. soft polytheism spectrum. Take from it what you will.)

((Edit: Now that I've sat and thought about it, I think trying to logic it so much sort of defeats the point, in a way. This is where the spirit enters into things.))

My God, and people think Christianity's confusing! :lol: I think I'm going to have to think about that for a while.

[IrishDancer]

Perhaps it might help to look at Starhawk's blog article http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/starhawk/2007/05/religion_is_a_human_construct.html might be helpful

Nice link :) I liked the quote, "“My love’s eyes are as blue as the sea” and you say, “My love’s eyes are as blue as the sky”, we don’t need to fight a religious war about it."

[IrishDancer]

I don't feel I need to validate the Gods I worship, only what they stand for. Does that make sense?

That's a really great quote. Can I use that some time?

[childofbast]

lol Sure, thanks. :)

[Tullip Troll]

Actually, the Bible's pretty specific when it comes to God's origins, it's just really hard to wrap your brain around. "Always" is a hard concept, since humans have a beginning and we see new life's beginnings all the time. But God makes it clear in the Bible that He *always* was and *always* will be. He existed before time, before the world, before light, and He says specifically that He is the A, the Z, the first, the last, the alpha, the omega, etc, etc.

So, God tries to make it really clear, I just think it surpasses human understanding. But, like RavenStars mentioned, I guess there are other traditions where gods always were? So maybe this isn't exactly foreign to pagans.

As far as the Hindu stuff you were describing, that's really interesting! I love hearing about all the traditions. My mom talked a lot about Celtic heros that were said to have become gods or were said to be giants. We're allegedly related to Fionn mac Cumhaill, who's said to be a giant and immortal and all kinds of stuff.


However the Story of God(the bible) was written and passed down by man, so I think your God could be considered invented as well.

(not pickin on ya just looking at it from a diff view)

[Tullip Troll]

however i am not sure how mine came about only that they made themselves known and their beginings are speculation from us pee ons, I also believe in achieving GOD Status.

[Rudas Starblaze]

In your various beliefs, how did your gods become gods? Were they once men? Do you believe you'll become a god? Or, like Christians, do you believe your god always was?

i think i was just born that way ID!:hahugh:

[Credulous Warlock]

*Deleted by Kaylara*Go spam your own website with this crap.

[Simply Puzzled]

In your various beliefs, how did your gods become gods? Were they once men? Do you believe you'll become a god? Or, like Christians, do you believe your god always was?

This has been on my mind a lot recently, and the solution I have come up with suggests that the term god implies unity where there is none. For starters, we are talking mostly about deities that come from non-English speaking cultures, and we are lumping them together, using one word to translate both the Theoi of Greece and the Kami of Japan, which are two very different things.

Anyway, language aside, I think the gods are a mix of beings that come from multiple places:

1. Some are beings that have existed on another level since time immemorial. All gods might represent one class of being from one level or multiple kinds of beings from many levels, though I tend to think it's the latter.

2. Some are heroes whose accomplishments earned them worshippers and therefore a place among the gods, such as Lugh.

3. Closely related to 2, some are ancestors whose family spread and kept honoring them.

4. Some are personifications of natural forces. These gods tend to be more "generic" with less personality attached to them: see Oceanus vs. Poseidon.

5. Some were created by humans and through means not understood by humans came into existence or the role was filled in by a deity from one of the categories above.

I don't think any one of these can fully describe all the different entities labeled under the term "god" which is, unfortunately, what we are stuck with in this language for the time being.

[Ælfred]

My own theory is that the gods are our distant ancestors. Perhaps they lived extraordinary lives and were remembered and deified by their own tribe, over the centuries evolving from hero to divine being. I believe they are similar to ghosts but more advanced, and can impart wisdom and assistance to those who believe in them. Other gods, such as Mani and Sol (moon and sun) on the other hand, would be personifications of nature rather than the spirits of advanced beings who were once human.

[David19]

I think I agree with what Simply Puzzled said, the word god has many definitions for many different people, and some gods are not the same type as others (e.g. the Greek gods are a different type of god than the Japanese Kami, etc).

I'd agree with Simply Puzzled's listing of where gods can come from:

Some have always existed, or came into existence before humanity.

Some can be deified ancestors or heroes e.g. like some of the Loa of Vodou, etc.

Some might be personifications of natural forces and other forces (e.g. primal deities, deities of the elements, etc, although they would still have some kind of personality).

But, I think there are a lot more ways gods can come about that any list can mention.

Also, it depends on your definition of a god, some see Lilith as a god, others see her as a demon, etc.

[IrishDancer]

Great post, Simply Puzzled. Really breaks it down well :)

And Tullip, in response to:


However the Story of God(the bible) was written and passed down by man, so I think your God could be considered invented as well.

(not pickin on ya just looking at it from a diff view)

No offense taken :) I can see people coming from that point of view, and that totally depends on your beliefs. I was just curious as to what people believed -- within their own beliefs. Christians think that all gods worshipped here, apart from Satan and the God of Israel, were made up. A lot we learn about as "myths" in school. I was just curious as to where others believed their gods originated, since Christians have a book where their (our, I should say, since I am one!) God actually tells us about His origins. And I really like the Celtic stories about heroes becoming gods.

Of course, a lot of people here believe the God of the Bible couldn't be what He seems to be in the Bible because of the translation changes and blahdie blah. Just like Christians believe your gods are myths or demons or whatever.

And :hugz::hugz::hugz: Rudas!

[Hamelyn]

Well, we can't really be sure our Gods were what they are to us, either, IrishDancer. Just as we believe the Bible has a long line of mortal interference (which was sometimes done on purpose, but mostly just because mortals are mortals and centuries of heritage are bound to influence how you view something, even the divine), our beliefs as neo-pagans are just as elusive. To make it worse, we have to deal with arcane Mystery cults and uncertain prehistoric concepts. That's on top of dealing with the same translation errors and ethnocentric editing that various cultures put on their religions. For example, I have always been drawn to worship the Greek pantheon despite the fact that I have no Greek heritage. What Greek theater says about the Gods is different from what their myths said about the Gods, and some of those myths contradict other myths, and it's hard to tell what was actually believed and what served as a parable. Yes, it's confusing. But if it didn't challenge you on a personal level, would it really be worth your prayers? I'm sure you've met Christians who worship God because it's how they were raised and never really thought about it, and I'm sure you can tell the difference between these individuals and Christians who have had their faith tested, and emerged from those tests with a greater understanding of their role in the grand design.

I believe the gods are archetypal spirits of sweeping regions and concepts. They are subject to divine law and the laws of nature, but within their realms of influence are capable of performing feats of a miraculous nature. As for their origin, well, they exist because they must exist. The physical world demands the existence of the spirit world, because the spirit world is where the animating forces that manifest here exist. In a very real sense, Dionysus is agriculture and wine and ecstatic trance and sodomy. Ganymede could just be a story used to explain a constellation and justify a philosopher's yearning for his male students, but when I view him as the epitome of service as the cup bearer of Zeus, it touches my soul.

I hope this makes sense a little.

[latin_baller]

maybe theyre real in a sense but not conscious like us, like simply parts of our mind. Maybe thats why we are told to read all we can about them before we invoke them.

Like, how people see them how they are not for example. People dont know Set as the eater of souls as it says in the book of the dead, they just ignore or dont know that and their Set comes out how they want( or think) him to come out. Also, the Egyptians did consider him EVIL at some point

[ninurta2008]

My gods were always gods, even when they were being worshipped during the stone age. And in time their names began to be written on pictographs that evolved into cuneiform.

[Toki Wartooth]

Um, they were born that way? I guess going back to the older gods, I believe they somehow emerged with the beginnings of the Universe.

I'm unsure as to whether humans can achieve god status. My beliefs incline toward no, but I'm open to the idea.

[memnoch]

I have several answers, first and foremost I am my own god without me nothing else would matter (on an individual level). Second is I have declared myself agnostic as I have always been unsure of any real higher power. Third, my god (in symbolism) is Loki. I was always interested in gods and I was in a real point of transition in my life, looking for a purpose. As I was studying things just hit me in my face. Loki's day is Saturday...my favorite day, Loki loves dragonsblood, my favorite scent, onyx is said to represent Loki, I've always loved onyx, ect. I was not ready to fully believe. So I figured if it was meant to be I would find out. I offered myself up to Loki with a blood sacrifice. I cried out that if he existed to make himself known.

I went out that night with my best friend, his fiance, and another couple to the RHPS (rocky horror) in Columbus, about an hour away. The plan was to go up, have fun, get 3 hotel rooms, one for each couple, and one for me and whomever I brought back. Due to a detour, construction, and getting lost we got there two hours late. We then couldn't find a single hotel in Columbus with a vacancy. We finally find a place about 20 minutes outside of Columbus and get 2 rooms, one for each couple and I would stay in my friends room with them.

We then decide to have a few beers and relax. After about a half hour everyone is ready to call it a night. We settle in our rooms, my friend got a suite so I could have a pull out couch in a seperate room from him and his fiance. I open another beer and turn on an SNL rerun, depressed about the events of the night, yet amused. Then I hear them getting it on, turning my depression into anger. After about 20 minutes I hear his fiance yell for me. I wonder what is wrong, but I wait. She yells again, so I ask what she wants, and she tells me to come into their room. I walk in to see him under the covers and her spread eagled naked. She asks me if I want to **** her. I ask if she is serious, and she says she is. I ask again, and still she is. I look at my friend and he smiles. My clothes have never come off so quick in my life. At that moment I realize that Loki was there for me.

[Tobias]

There is a special relationship between the material world and the spiritual one. I cannot say which one created the other, or whether both came into being simultaneously through the Big Bang. Or even if there was a "Big Bang." All we can see and recognize now is that "spirit" matter connects to the physical, in that we are both spirit and the physical. And we see the same pattern in the animal and plant life all around us, as well as the non-living matter of the Earth.

The gods are simply spirit matter that has evolved to the point of not needing a physical "home" to attach itself to. That, and having developed other character traits and abilities to elevate themselves to "god" status, rather than just dis-embodied spirits.


So I theorize, that once quite a while ago all spirit matter lived together in harmony in one star not too far from here. When the star exploded, we were ripped apart from each other, as the matter we connected with hurled away through space. Some fared better than others, the gods adjusting quite well to not needing matter to inhabit.

As a new star and the solar system developed, the gods provided the favorable conditions for life, and herded what they could of the rest of us here to give us a home. Through experiencing life we each can evolve past the need for physical habitation ourselves, which is the goal of our involvement with Them. First we learn to live apart from the physical, then we learn the secrets of what it takes to become gods ourselves.





...or something like that!

[Louisvillian]

In your various beliefs, how did your gods become gods?
I believe that the gods always were gods, and always will be.
We just contacted and described them, often through the filter of our own cultures.

Though I suppose it is possible for the immortal soul of a mortal being to be raised to godhood; it's probably a rare occurrence and only to a minor position at the discretion of the gods themselves.

[Infinite Grey]

Figments of fearful imaginations... I have no gods.