hoping to find someone who knows alot about religion

[Elaine]

I have been quite confused lately.....I have been studying wicca for months now and I have the basics down pretty well I think, but I was raised Catholic and am having troubles with some of the things I'm finding....what I'm hoping for, by posting this, is that someone that knows about different religions will be able to read my beliefs and tell me if they are really Wiccan beliefs or if they are beliefs of another religion...thanks in advance for your time......

I believe in one God but I believe that that one God has both male and female aspects and that all of the goddesses are different aspects of the same God as well. I believe that we should be able to see God in all aspects of nature. I have a hard time believing in the concept of hell, because in the Bible it says that God is all loving and all forgiving.....if God forgives you for your sins, there is no need for a hell.....I'm not sure on my thoughts about reincarnation, but I have a hard time believing this is the only plain of existance we can exist in......I believe that the triple goddess is just about the same concept as mother nature....the triple goddess controls all life and growth and death.....I think that religion shouldn't be as strict as catholicism is....I agree stongly about being able worship on your own time without feeling obligated to go to mass on that one particular day.....I know this is getting long and I'm sure by now you get what I'm trying to get at....I hope I have not offended anyone by anything I have said....I just really want to find the right path and I feel that calling myself Wiccan may insult the true Wiccans in the world....thank you for your time......I hope someone can help....

[rantnraven]

There are not manyy strict guidelines that one could judge you on and, no one will - I'm sure of that. Besides, there is a fiarly rich array of Wiccan practices. Which one you choose will show itself to you then, you can bend it to suite your needs and wishes.

Where the dieties are concerned, having one God is not a crime. There several who consider themselves to be Christain Witches and that is fine too. It's all about you own faith and what works for you. Besides, this is not strictly a Pagan site - we have several Christain friends that walk with us here.

Just remember the reede: An it harm none, do as thou wilt.

Walk and talk with us, All are welcome.

Hope some of this help clear the air a little for you.

RnR

[Elaine]

the reason I ask is because I have seen on many websites, including this one, where people are talking about Christian Wiccans and how that is not possible...and I see their point....I am so attracted to Wicca, but am realizing that I'm having a hard time dismissing some of the things I was raised on....I realize that being a Christian Witch is absolutely possible.....but do not yet find myself drawn to Witchcraft.....(I think because I don't feel comfortable in any religion as of right now and am concentrating on trying to figure things out in my head) As you can imagine, the concept of believing what I want to and bending the rules of religion is very foreign to me...but this is one of the main things I am not comfortable with in Catholicism.....I do not and have never believed that there is only one right way....the right way is what is right for you.....I think this may be where my problem lies...I am looking for a religion that has what I believe word for word in it's description....maybe if I realize this is not the way it has to be, I will have an easier time finding my path....thoughts? am I right or just confused? could be either:)

[rantnraven]

Originally posted by Elaine
the reason I ask is because I have seen on many websites, including this one, where people are talking about Christian Wiccans and how that is not possible...and I see their point....I am so attracted to Wicca, but am realizing that I'm having a hard time dismissing some of the things I was raised on....I realize that being a Christian Witch is absolutely possible.....but do not yet find myself drawn to Witchcraft.....(I think because I don't feel comfortable in any religion as of right now and am concentrating on trying to figure things out in my head) As you can imagine, the concept of believing what I want to and bending the rules of religion is very foreign to me...but this is one of the main things I am not comfortable with in Catholicism.....I do not and have never believed that there is only one right way....the right way is what is right for you.....I think this may be where my problem lies...I am looking for a religion that has what I believe word for word in it's description....maybe if I realize this is not the way it has to be, I will have an easier time finding my path....thoughts? am I right or just confused? could be either:)

Try this site. There is a good section on Christian - Wiccan relationdhips. Just scroll down a bit when you get there.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

Maybe it will help you a bit.,
RnR

[Faery-Wings]

Hi Elaine,

I know where you are coming from. I could have written your post myself! I was born and raised a Catholic but have not considered myself Catholic since I was 14 or 15 years old. now I am 32 and I *still* have issues. I see the God and Goddess as one Divine, the two halves of a whole, the yin and yang so to speak. To me they incorporate all of the dieties. And that might change as I grow and learn. Another message board I had been reading implied that only the "Wannabes" believed that as a way of maintaing their Christian belief in one God. I dunno, maybe so. However, if this is what I believe, that has to be ok. This is *my* Path, no one else's.

I don't think you have to find a religion that has your beliefs word for word. Catholicism wants you to think that. It doesn't feel that way with Paganism. I am trying to incorporate my beliefs into a cohesive package. If it has a label, great, if not, then it has to be ok with me too. And that freedom feels *wonderful* after years of suppression and rigidity as a Catholic.

I am not sure if I helped at all. I am in the same place as you, reading and exploring and trying to figure out what I believe and how I want to express it. But I want you to know, we must be ok!

Chris

[Mariposa De La Luna]

Well my 2 cents goes something like this:

You are a seeker and your mantra should be "seekers seek". Search for the seekers bill of rights elsewhere in the posts. (maybe I should bump it) Anyway, musings aside, one of the things that is difficult to get over is not having everything written down for us or being told what to do. Lables are another thing that don't fit in with general Paganism. Open yourself to all the possibilities that surround you. Your vision of diety may or may not change as you read and meditate more but be open to it. No one should tell you what you are, that is something you will have to define for yourself. Right now I think the best you can call yourself is Seeker.

As for Christian Wiccans/Pagans, don't let anyone tell you your style of worship is not possible. If it feels right and works for you, it is right, that is your path. Those people can go and take a long meditation on pushing your view on others, being judgemental, being closed minded, being unaccepting and learn when to keep their opinions to themselves when it concerns another's religion. Through diversity we become stronger.

[Elaine]

chryssi1- thank you so much for your post...you don't know how much that helped me.....it's nice to know that there are other people in the same situation as I am in...I think that allways helps regardless of what your situation is......

sahm-it is good to know that people understand what I'm trying to say....it's hard because both my husband and I were raised Catholic and though he doesn't consider himself Catholic anymore he is a very narrow minded (without trying to insult him) Christian.....he is very firm in his beliefs and when I talk to him about what I feel, though he is behind me no matter what I decide to do, tells me that I am wrong and that he is disappointed because he thought we were on the same page when it comes to religion.....I can't get him to see my point of view no matter what I say and it's just really frustrating when he tells me I'm not allowed to believe the way I do....that there has to be a lable.....that if I am interested in Paganism then I must be interested in Satan because not believing in only God makes me a "devil worshipper" I have a pentagram necklace and a ring with the triple goddess symbol on it (sorry can't remember the actual name for it) and every time he looks at those that's what he calls me....and that's not it at all....I don't believe in Satan or the whole concept of hell so how can I be a "devil worshipper"?? It's frustrating because he is very educated but so naive to certain aspects of how other people live.....I understand where he's coming from because we both went to Catholic shools and when you go to those schools, you are unaware that there are people in the world that believe different things than you.....you think that, because everyone around you believes what you do, that everyone in the WORLD believes what you do....until you step out of those catholic school doors and into the world of reality......a variety of people you never realized were there......I think that he just never embraced that concept.....

ANYWAYS....(like I said I babble, so sorry it's so long) :) thanks for the help...oh, RnR I will check out that website tonight....it's greatly appreciated

ps....chryssi1- if you ever want to talk just email me....maybe we could help each other out some, who knows.....:)

[Elaine]

ok.....I don't know if I should start a new thread for this, but since it has to do with that website from RnR that's why I'm putting this here

I was looking it over and it mentioned the trinity......which now that I think about it doesn't seem much different than the triple goddess aspect of wicca...am I right in thinking this?? Also, it talked about the book Green Witchcraft by Ann Moura.....it says that her and her grandmother merged Roman Catholicism and Wicca/Witchcraft....I have seen other people on this website talk about this book as well....is it a good one...would you recommend someone at my level reading her book?

thanks for everyones help...I hope I'm not being a bother! :) Just tell me if I am...I'm sure you'll all be hearing from me again soon:) (if I'm NOT a bother that is) :)

[bluecat]

Well, I don't have much to add, except for Welcome to the boards. You should maybe intro yourself over on the general section. :cool:


Bother?? Poppycock! You are not a bother, You are welcome here!

Pull up one of Kaylara's comfy couch/chair thingies and have a glass of Lemonade!

Blue :cool:

[Elaine]

I did introduce myself...it's the one titled apologies...:) cuz I goofed:)

[Mariposa De La Luna]

Originally posted by Elaine

sahm-it is good to know that people understand what I'm trying to say....it's hard because both my husband and I were raised Catholic and though he doesn't consider himself Catholic anymore he is a very narrow minded (without trying to insult him) Christian.....he is very firm in his beliefs and when I talk to him about what I feel, though he is behind me no matter what I decide to do, tells me that I am wrong and that he is disappointed because he thought we were on the same page when it comes to religion.....I can't get him to see my point of view no matter what I say and it's just really frustrating when he tells me I'm not allowed to believe the way I do....that there has to be a lable.....that if I am interested in Paganism then I must be interested in Satan because not believing in only God makes me a "devil worshipper" I have a pentagram necklace and a ring with the triple goddess symbol on it (sorry can't remember the actual name for it) and every time he looks at those that's what he calls me....and that's not it at all....I don't believe in Satan or the whole concept of hell so how can I be a "devil worshipper"?? It's frustrating because he is very educated but so naive to certain aspects of how other people live.....I understand where he's coming from because we both went to Catholic shools and when you go to those schools, you are unaware that there are people in the world that believe different things than you.....you think that, because everyone around you believes what you do, that everyone in the WORLD believes what you do....until you step out of those catholic school doors and into the world of reality......a variety of people you never realized were there......I think that he just never embraced that concept.....


If your husband is saying all these hurtful things to you is he really behind you? It sounds like he is trying to discourage you. He is probably scared of the changes you are making and the unkown and is lashing out. Has he read any of your books or tried to understand? What does he think of Baptists, Budhists and Muslims?There are many on this board going through the same problem.

I also am a recovering Catholic who went to a Catholic school. Fortunately not for all of my schooling. But I understand about being unaware of the world. I also understand not believing in Satan, I don't think I ever did, I mean you were a good Catholic girl and you weren't going to kill anyone so what do you have to be afraid of? Not hell, a confession and a few prayers took care of that, right.

[Elaine]

I don't think my husband was trying to be hurtful...that was the only thing he said to me that was negative....and there I think he was just trying to be honest with me......he also said that he will help me with whatever I need and that he is 100% behind me whatever I decide to do......it was a very long conversation that I only put a small portion of in my posting and I don't think I explained it the way I should have...there was a lot said around that that was quite positive and helpful for me!

That's the thing SAHM, I never understood how there were all of these other religions, and all of these people were supposed to be bad...and wrong in what they believe and because of that their going to hell......the point of religion is that you believe in something....and you live a good life.......there isn't one right and one wrong.....it's such a contradiction.....your taught that if you live a good life you're going to heaven...so why should it matter what religion you are....if God is all loving and all forgiving, how is hell possible?? doesn't make sence to me......

[Faery-Wings]

Hey :)

I emailed you yesterday through the site and computer- illiterate me has no clue if I got it to work right. Did you get it?

Chris

[Elaine]

:crazy: sorry I didn't respond yet.....I'll go do that now...yeah you did it right:p look for it....
Elaine

[bluecat]

If you are looking for someone to learn from there is something you might want to read, I have it linked on my site, but here it the direct link http://www.cog.org/wicca/teach.htm

This is a handy thing and I may post in in just talk too!

Blue :cool:

[bananabrain]

elaine -

if your husband is supportive and behind you and so on, then that is the best thing that you have going for you in this matter. remember - from ignorance comes fear and from fear comes hatred. IMHO, if you are able to keep him in the loop as far as possibe he won't feel shut out or alienated. if he starts objecting, it may or may not be anything to do with your specifically religious concerns. try to keep it in his mind that 'you're still you whatever happens' and you're not turning into some kind of weirdo. information, inclusion and explanation as far as possible are the best ways to keep him onside, if you ask me.

i'm neither pagan, christian or a witch, but jewish. please let me reassure you that there are many different ways of encountering the Divine. yours is in no way less valid for being non-catholic. idiots exist in all religions and there is a special name for them - idiots! it doesn't make the religion stupid just because some of the people in it sometimes act like gits. in terms of the 'everyone but us goes to hell' way of looking at things, it is prevalent in many places, not just certain types of christianity but you can't argue with it, so don't try. just say 'yeah, whatever' and don't whatever you do accept simplistic answers. as my sufi friends say 'there are many roads up the mountain'. i thoroughly approve of the sentiment expressed by SAHM - "seekers seek". our sages teach that if you don't like how something seems to you, challenge it. sometimes you can even out-argue a heavenly voice.

remember - it's not the 'answer' that will help; you need to ask the right questions. and you've certainly started.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[OlaMystique]

Originally posted by Elaine
...it's just really frustrating when he tells me I'm not allowed to believe the way I do....that there has to be a label.....that if I am interested in Paganism then I must be interested in Satan because not believing in only God makes me a "devil worshipper." ...I don't believe in Satan or the whole concept of hell so how can I be a "devil worshipper"?? It's frustrating because he is very educated but so naive to certain aspects of how other people live.

I hear you! My boyfriend and I respect each other's views but when I first came to him and told him that I consider myself Pagan and with studying, possibly Wiccan later on down the road, he was very shocked. He and I were both raised Christian and neither one of us were active practicing Christians -- didn't ever attend even Christmas service. Anyway, we have a 4 month old son and I asked him how he'd feel if I introduced our son to Paganism when he got older. He said he wouldn't mind but he doesn't want his son worshipping the devil. !!! I explained that Christianity is just one of many religions, and one of their symbols and beliefs is in the Devil, a figure created by that ONE religion. My religion does not have Devil, so there is no such thing as Devil Worship in my views. Simply, I believe in the good and the bad that exist in the world, because that is how nature functions. I strive to do good and respect the world around me. He since has been better...as I have been reading, I'll point things out, quote from the book, and his eyes are opening up a lot to what I am learning, and I think he is starting to realize some things he never thought about before. He still makes fun of me and cracks jokes about casting spells and turning him into a toad, but for the most part, he has gotten much better about respecting my views as another view to have, not something bad. Slow progress, but progress nonetheless.

I don't know the author name, but maybe browsing through a bookstore might enable you to come across it. Awhile back I found a book written by someone who had a firm background in Christianity, and this person wrote about Paganism as a Christian who converted. Maybe if you found a book such as this and shared that with your husband, he might come to understand and respect, even if not agree, with your new path.

Ola Mystique

[SeekerSandy]

Elaine, you are not a bother. You are going through what so many of us here did. I was a Christian minister for years (at one time very involved with the Old Roman Catholic Church) and understand your confusion and search for truth and comfort in belief.
My question would have been "are you having trouble with conflicts in Catholicism because you are comfortable with that faith, or because you spent nearly all of your life with it and it's familiar?" But, I see that you are beginning to ask yourself the same question.
the Triple Goddess is akin to the 'holy trinity' which should be familiar to you. Think of liturgy and holy days, then look at your pagan calendar and understand what was taken from what. Our belief must be pretty good since much of it was stolen by the catholic church as a sales ploy.
Your husband needs his faith and is no-doubt insecure in it when he sees you exploring another path. Discussion at this point is fruitless and potentially dangerous. I would counsel you to simply be happy on your travels. The time will come when his natural curiosity will overcome his fear and he will begin to ask questions. Don't push it, just go with the flow.
Your travels should be happy, don't look for trouble. If you encounter a belief that is too difficult to fathom, put it aside as an unsolved mystery and move on, the answer will come later.
Bright Blessings!:sunny:

[Elaine]

Thank you all so much for all of your help!! There are some things I'd like to respond to, so forgive me if this gets to be long!


bananabrain- my husband loves me no matter what....and he doesn't have a problem remembering that I'm me no matter what I believe....I first talked about it with him because I felt that by not telling him I was betraying him...this is something that's important to me and I felt that I needed to be honest with him and tell him about it.....I don't talk with him about it often because religious discussions with him is like having a war....he doesn't back down from his position...about the idiots...being an idiot knows no religion....an idiot is an idiot, regardless of what they believe! I defanitely agree with you about that!
:D I'm trying my best to study and learn and ask my questions on here with as little ignorance as I can...I'm glad you think I'm going about this the right way!

OlaMystique- I'm very glad to hear about you and your boyfriend.....seems like you have a good guy there!;) I hope that one day I can reach that level with my husband....he's a good guy, just very opionated...and he's a very good arguer!!:D I will definately look for some books about christian/wiccan relationships...that's a good idea ...I think it might help!!

SeekerSandy- it helps to know that I am not alone in going from catholicism to wicca...I am definately asking myself why I have the conflicts with leaving christianity every day....I think it's just because that's what I'm comfortable with because as time goes on I am more comfortable with believing in the goddess.....when I first started studying I wasn't sure if I could ever convert because ...while I believed in the Wiccan beliefs....and wanted to convert, I still found myself, in time of need, praying to God and having problems including Goddess in that prayer....lately, I have been looking to both God and Goddess for guidance and it feels good....I'm comfortable with it now......so I think it's just a matter of time for some of my other conflicts to work themself out! One of the first things I was attracted to in Wicca was the Triple Goddess and noticed, shortly after, the connection to the Trinity......I have also been noticing the Pagan things that are seen in Catholicism.....(I was just thinking about the fact that my husband, although he does support me, gives me a hard time about studying this path.....that his favorite holiday is Halloween!.....he is so straight in his Christian ways and believes that his way is the only way...but his favorite holiday is the biggest Pagan holiday!!! ....go figure!!) :) I haven't been speaking with my husband about my path lately...just figure that it's better to leave it for awhile.....I think that I am going to have another conversation with him soon though..considering I feel I have come very far lately......I think he will be happy for me....he'll give me a hard time because he thinks that you can't incorporate different beliefs into one ....but I think he'll be happy that I've found a path that's comfortable for me....otherwise I'm going to leave things alone and let him ask questions if he wants to....as long as I'm free to study as I wish and keep on my path thats all that matters....we love each other and have a good relationship....and with our schedules, it's important we stay focused on that!

thanks again for everyone help and sorry for the length of this.........oh......ps. do you still think I'm not a bother after this LONG post, SeekerSandy???;) :rolleyes: :p :D :)

[bluecat]

Originally posted by Elaine

thanks again for everyone help and sorry for the length of this.........oh......ps. do you still think I'm not a bother after this LONG post, SeekerSandy???;) :rolleyes: :p :D :)

NO!

I don't know about SeekerSandy, but I don't think you are a bother and I don't think he will either! :cool: :cool:

Blue :cool:

[OlaMystique]

Originally posted by Elaine
OlaMystique- I'm very glad to hear about you and your boyfriend.....seems like you have a good guy there!;) I hope that one day I can reach that level with my husband....he's a good guy, just very opionated...and he's a very good arguer!!:D

Well, I think I got lucky because my guy isn't much of an arguer. lol He does try now and then but sometimes he just makes a fool of himself, since he doesn't always think before he speaks. haha It is in part a reason for our open communication. He knows his arguments in this subject lack a certain strength so doesn't bother arguing too much and instead listens and nods politely. haha

OlaMystique

[SeekerSandy]

No, Elaine---Thinking, caring people are not a bother. You have much to say, to us as well as to yourself. It's certainly a positive and constructive bent that you are on. How encouraging!
I takes a while to learn new habits, including different dieties or their names, forgetting the old 'amen' and such. Just part of following a new path.
Keep on bothering us, you're thoughts are refreshing.
:heartthro

[Elaine]

Thank you so much for the kind words Bluecat & SeekerSandy....You don't know how much I appreciate that.....It makes me feel very welcome around here.....I like it here much better than the last place I was at!!!....

OlaMystique- I wish my husband wasn't an arguer.....when he argues his thoughts are all very thought out and he very rarely makes a fool of himself...that jerk!!! :rolleyes: What I wouldn't give to correct him wrong in something to the point where he stops and says that I'm right!!! or even to the point that I feel like I have a chance of effecting him!! He was on debate in highschool and I guess it was just a natural talent that stuck with him....unfortunately for me!!!:eek: but I love him....so I keep him around anyways, ya know just in case...like for a rainy day.. :D :cool: :p ;) :)

[Vinga]

Well I'm a neophyte to wicca as well, but it's my understanding that in wicca and paganism you can choose whichever God or Goddess or both that you feel comfortable with. So who's to say you can't pick the Christian God (...Jehovah?) just as well as you can choose an Egyptian, Celtic, Greek, Roman, Norse etc God or Goddess? And worship Him in the same personal way any wiccan would worship his/her chosen diety. I have heard of wiccans that pray to Jesus, I don't think the choice of diety is what makes one a wiccan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in wicca it's not so much 'who' you pray to as how you choose to live your life (according to the rede and the 3 fold law).

[Elaine]

I completely agree with that Vinga (from what I've read so far anyways, that's the impression I get...someone please tell us if we're wrong!) That's why I love Wicca....for once in my life I am comfortable going down the path that I am.....I still hold some of my Christian beliefs, but at the same time am finding myself grow more and more towards goddess as well....I believe in both the trinity and the triple goddess....I believe that both are in everything and everyone and I don't feel guilty for feeling that way....and that feels good! While still going to Christian masses on Sundays, I was told that I wasn't allowed to feel that way....now, if I don't go to church I don't feel guilty, but if I do I don't think I would feel guilty praying in a Christian mass and still believing in goddess and praying to her as well....there's a lot of people on line that highly believe that you can not be both....but if it's how I feel, I can't be wrong.....that's my opinion!:elf:

[bananabrain]

Originally posted by Vinga
it's my understanding that in wicca and paganism you can choose whichever God or Goddess or both that you feel comfortable with. So who's to say you can't pick the Christian God (...Jehovah?) just as well as you can choose an Egyptian, Celtic, Greek, Roman, Norse etc God or Goddess? And worship Him in the same personal way any wiccan would worship his/her chosen diety


vinga - i think to be more exact it is true to say that in *any* belief system, pagan, wiccan or otherwise, you have a subsidiarity of personal choice. however, it is your choice of deity/ies belief and practice that come first. what you call yourself is then partly dictated by that and then - depending on that - may also imply a matter of choice. the important issue to be aware of is that certain systems have an 'orthodoxy' in the generic sense of the word, meaning strictness about what you can believe and still be included in the definition of what an X is. for example, a roman catholic is required to believe X, Y and Z things, and if you don't, you can't really call yourself a roman catholic. however, you may still be able to call yourself a christian (and the nature of christianity does not prevent you from having a relationship with jesus as well as the Goddess, as far as i can tell from outside of it, although it may prevent you being, say, lutheran!). likewise, some religions are 'orthoprax', meaning that your methods and practices, as opposed to your beliefs are required to follow a certain set of rules. for example, my jewish beliefs are fairly 'orthodox' (although for internal political reasons, this is a problematic label!) and my practice is fairly orthoprax. consequently, i end up calling myself simply 'jewish', although i add 'post-denominational' for those who understand the term (usually not!) or 'traditional' if it helps!

it is my understanding that one can call oneself a wiccan without it necessarily meaning the same thing to all wiccans. likewise, unless you have been initiated into a specific tradition, practice can be amended to suit your personal preference. this makes it a 'heterodox' and 'heteroprax' system, although subsets of wicca, say british trad wicca have their own orthodoxy and orthopraxy - it tends to go with an 'organised' structure. nonetheless, there are certain things that would make you a wiccan, as opposed to, say, a strega (italian hereditary witch) or a hindu, as exemplified by the form in which you worship the Divine. thus, i would say that within the 'neo-pagan' grouping that includes, say, astruars and kemetics as well as wiccans, it is the symbolic language that you use that tends to dictate one's particular 'label'. to my mind, 'wiccan' tends to imply a western european/celtic approach.

now, with regards to the 'christian god', it is important to be aware that from the point of view of the three abramic faiths, judaism, christianity and islam (as well as sikhism, hinduism, buddhism and all mystical systems that i have so far encountered) that there is a major difference between a 'deity' and Deity. to be more precise - if you are a hindu, for example, you may worship, say, krishna particularly, because that represents a certain aspect of the Divine, which you have a particular connection with. and if you don't look at it too hard it can be misleading - the fact that you may have a personal relationship with krishna may lead you to believe that krishna is a distinct God as opposed to a specific manifestation of Deity - a 'gateway', if you will.

the so-called 'big four' (i always include sikhism) are distinguished by their insistence that their worshippers 'cut out the middleman', (except christianity, which has its own ideas, but judaism, islam and sikhism are always giving them a hard time about it!) and have a direct relationship with the Infinite Divine, the Beyond - what kabbalists call 'EIN-SOF'. it is further interesting to note that this Infinite Divine has many Divine Names and that the 'unio mystica' common to all mystical traditions that i have so far encountered is absolutely akin to the buddhist concept of 'merging with the void'. thus it could be argued that it is precisely the G!D that i believe in that buddhism is oriented towards - except that buddhists would reject the label of G!D. once you're down to discussing labels of course, it's a matter of packaging rather than content. this is why sensible jews, christians, muslims and so on (when not distracted by issues of possible idol-worship) do not have a problem engaging in dialogue with buddhists.

the point i'm trying to make is that the Infinite Divine (or G!D if you like) cannot be reduced to the level of a simple canaanite sky/mountain god, el, or whatever. what you call 'jehovah' is not the same thing as zeus, ra, odin or gaia. the Divine is beyond gender (although there are gender aspects involved) and beyond attributes or descriptions. i am absolutely (before you all jump all over me) *not* being superior or triumphalist about it, nor do i think that this in any way devalues the beliefs and faith of, say, wiccans. the only way that i can explain it is to use a phrase of my sufi friends 'there are many roads up the mountain'. if your signposts happen to be wiccan ones, all well and good. we're all on the same side as far as i'm concerned. however, i do think (and again, this is just my opinion!) that if you restrict yourself to a relationship with, say, *just* the 'Goddess', even though you may have terrific reasons for doing so (like traditional neglect of feminine aspects of the Divine that you may see in christianity)you are ignoring important stuff! you cannot worship the light without the dark. you cannot neglect your body for the sake of your soul. the most satisfying relationship with the Divine, in my experience, is a comprehensive one. however, many people (so-called 'monotheists' or otherwise) forget this.

hope this helps and is not too prolix.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[Faery-Wings]

I have to say that this has been such a great thread. Very thought provoking and insightful. Thanks Elaine for getting it (and keeping it) going!

Chris

[Elaine]

wow bananabrain....that took me like 20 minutes or so to read and actually comprehend everything you were saying!! :) I have learned more than I ever expected to when I started this thread! thanks everyone for all the imput....you can't get help like this anywhere else!!:D
I agree with bananabrain that a lot of monotheists forget the fact that there are different aspects to diety...everything is so gender oriented so much of the time in my experience in Catholicism anyways! People look at God as being male.....I like the idea of God (in the Catholic context) being beyond gender! but that is not what young Catholics are taught....we were taught that God is male, Jesus was male, and even The Holy Spirit was instilled in me as being male! I realize that Jesus was really here on earth and was a real person and everything...if I'm not mistaken there is proof of that...correct me if I'm wrong there...(if you believe he was a great teacher...or if you believe he was God's son is completely up to you!) but God and the Holy Spirit should be completely beyond gender.....I wonder why that is? Just one of the many things that boggles my mind about Catholicism....and why I like Wicca....(sorry if some of this doesn't make much sense....it's 3:15 am and I kept getting distracted by the tv) :)

[bananabrain]

.. remember, though, just 'cause the person who told you something daft was what they call a 'feckin' feathered eejit' doesn't mean that the religion necessarily is. it reflects far more on the person who said it. there are idiots in all traditions.

b'shalom

bananabrain

[sandaljunkie]

It's been very interesting reading this post, but i noticed you asked about this ...


"Also, it talked about the book Green Witchcraft by Ann Moura.....it says that her and her grandmother merged Roman Catholicism and Wicca/Witchcraft....I have seen other people on this website talk about this book as well....is it a good one...would you recommend someone at my level reading her book? "

I just wanted to say that I recommend this book very highly - and the website did get it wrong - it was just her mother and grandmother that integrated roman catholicism into their practices. The book also explains the connections of christianity to witchcraft along with some history, and I believe it's a good book to the intoduction of "living" wiccan - or as a witch.

As RatnRaven told me a little bit ago-
Religion is in the Mind but, Sprituallity is of the heart.

I hope your husband learns that an open mind is just as important as an open heart.

blessed be,
sarah

[Elaine]

thanks very much for the advice...I will make sure to check out that book....That RatnRaven is one smart cookie!!! that is soo true!!! Thanks for the imput....I'm sure my husband will be fine.....:D (like I'll give him a choice!!) :D :D

[Bittersweet]

one of the great things about wicca is that you can interprey\t it how you wish to. if you beleive something, then it is.. dont worry about offending all "real" wiccans.....im not one by far, but through all my readings, i have found that wicca has no "real" guidelines, its a mix of the old religion, and a contribution from many great men and women... the great thing about wicca being flexible is that it can evolve as a religion, and it becomes stronger as the years pass on. the main point is that you see it as you want to, or beleive it. there are a great many wiccans who dont practice, or that dont beleive in reincarnation, its a flexible religion, and an adapt to everyones beleif system... hope i helped, and didnt confuse you even more-
Blessed Be,
hannah... or bittersweet, whichever way you see me... though i do prefer Hannah

[bluecat]

Originally posted by Bittersweet
one of the great things about wicca is that you can interprey\t it how you wish to. if you beleive something, then it is.. dont worry about offending all "real" wiccans.....im not one by far, but through all my readings, i have found that wicca has no "real" guidelines, its a mix of the old religion, and a contribution from many great men and women... the great thing about wicca being flexible is that it can evolve as a religion, and it becomes stronger as the years pass on. the main point is that you see it as you want to, or beleive it. there are a great many wiccans who dont practice, or that dont beleive in reincarnation, its a flexible religion, and an adapt to everyones beleif system... hope i helped, and didnt confuse you even more-
Blessed Be,
hannah... or bittersweet, whichever way you see me... though i do prefer Hannah

It is one thing to not want to offend, but it is another to be so casual about it ... remember, you should have respect for another persons beliefs and not make judgements about them

Blue

[Elaine]

I agree with both Hannah and Blue.....that's what I was trying to go for in all of my postings....I realize that Wicca is a more lenient religion than Catholicism...I love the fact that I have freedom to believe in more than what I was raised on......but at the same time, coming in here when you're new....you find yourself interested in it...drawn to it....and you have respect for it...and you want to learn as much as you can, but you don't want to come in and fling around the misconceptions and such to people... you want to form your questions in an educated manner so that people will take you as being serious....otherwise, they may not be very open to helping you...Even with all of the freedoms of Wicca, you must keep in mind that there are guidlines that have to be followed! If you do not follow those guidelines, you are not Wiccan.....We can not, as new Wiccans or even as non-Wiccans, take the freedoms of Wicca for granted....we have to remember what being Wiccan is about and respect the religion, it's members, and every aspect of it.........just as we should respect all religions!

I hope that I was able to get across what I was trying to say...I had a hard time formulating my thoughts into words to type!

[orgtigger]

Good thread, I understand what your going through ever since I was 14 I Knew I wasn't christian. I just didn't know what I was, I started soul searching about 18 or 19 and it took me nearly 3 years to fully leave christianity behind. I am now a Thorist(Asatru) but I still give credit to the gods of other religions. All gods are valid in my opinion. I just don't limit myself to one form of belief

[orgtigger]

How silly I am, I should have checked the date. I followed a link from from another thread. Don't they archive this stuff. The post before mine was 4 years ago, I'm sure she's at a completely different level by now.

[Romani Vixen]

eh... no worries... it's interesting to see the old threads some times.

[Faery-Wings]

heh!! I had to reread this post- it made me smile, so thank you for bumping it. It was neat reading what I was thinking 4 years ago, and very cool to see some old names too.


Not to mention is was a really interesting thread. There was lots of good solid information "back in the old days" here.