The Word Shaman...By Runes...

[Shawn Blackwolf]

There are those who say the word Shaman , came from a people in Asia...


I respectfully disagree , and by showing what I will be showing , I have hopes that some , at least , shall see it's more ancient lineage...for the Runic , and Obri languages , underlie all others...But that argument , is for another thread...

For now , I shall dissect , and analyze the word for
you , and give an understanding of the Shaman's Path...
Runically...


By Letter :


" S " ...Seal ( Sowulo )...Sun , Safe Sailing , Safe Journey , Great Energy and Life Force , Plasma ...


" H "...Aeggle ( Hagalaz )...Harsh Agent of Change , Winds , Stormy Weather , Divine Breath , Eagle , Wings , Hail , Tunnel , Astral Traveling , Shield , Spin...


" A " ...Eck , Och...( no futhark )...Oak , Tree , Seed , Faith , Trust , Belief , Strength , Purpose , Of Practical Value , Promise Fullfilled , Renewal of Old Strength ,
Ancestral Memory , Future Memory , Background Noise , Singular Frequency , Charge...


" M " ...Mann ( Mannaz )...Know Thyself , Live In The Present , Understand The Transitory , Mortal Body , Androgyne , Do Not Seek Credit , The Return To Self , Inception and Regeneration Together...


" An " ...( Ehwaz )...( Here , in our tradition , we used a Rune Sonic )...Horse , Heart , Physical Body of Anything , Interference Waves , Balance , Movement , Progress ,
Birth and Death , Blood , Menstruation , Waterfall , Tears , Standing Wave , Carriage , Transport , Flexibility , Brittleness...


Now , here is the challenge...and truthfully , in our tradition , each Rune , has 77 levels , of which I have only revealed a few here...


Look at what you may know , or find out about a Shaman , or Shamanic Tradition...


Bring it back to this word code...using the lens , of Fuzzy Logic , which is a main ingredient of the Shamanic Path , find the interconnections...


And Ye shall blow your own mind...Welcome to Faery Shamanism...As I know it...

[Toby Stimpson]

So are you saying that Linguists and ethnologists who study this sort of thing is wrong?

That this is wrong:

Etymology

Shaman |ˈshämən; ˈshā-| noun (pl. -mans) originally referred to the traditional healers of Turkic-Mongol areas such as Northern Asia (Siberia) and Mongolia, a "shaman" being the Turkic-Tungus word for such a practitioner and literally meaning "he (or she) who knows." The words in Turkic languages which refer to shamans are kam, and sometimes baksı.

The Tungusic word šamán is from Chinese sha men (Chinese: 沙门，沙弥), "Buddhist monk," borrowed from Pali śamana, ultimately from Sanskrit śramana "ascetic," from śramati "he fatigues" (see shramana). The word passed through Russian and German before it was adopted into English.

Another explanation analyzes this Tungusic word as containing root “sa-”, this means “to know”. “Shaman” is “one who knows”:[1][2] a person who is an expert in keeping together the multiple codes through which this complex belief system appears, and has a comprehensive view of them in their mind with certainty of knowledge.[3]

Accordingly, the only proper plural form of the word is "shamans" and not "shamen", as it is unrelated to the English word "man". Similarly, the feminine form is not "shamaness" but "shamanka".

In its common usage, it has replaced the older English language term witch doctor, a term which unites the two stereotypical functions of the shaman: knowledge of magical and other lore, and the ability to cure a person and mend a situation. However, this term is generally considered to be pejorative and anthropologically inaccurate. Objections to the use of shaman as a generic term have been raised as well, by both academics and traditional healers themselves, given that the word comes from a specific place, people, and set of practices.

from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism#Criticism_of_the_term_.22Shaman.22

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Just a few examples , to help you understand...

1. Wind Horse...

2. Astral Traveling Journey...

3.Great Energy and Life Force , and Divine Breath...

4. Ancestral Memory , and the Return to Self...

5. What of Spin , and Charge ...?

6. Seed , and Know Thyself...?

7. Tree , and Astral Traveling...?

Have Fun..._wedgie_

[Toby Stimpson]

But what dos this prove Shawn? I mean it doesnt have much backing... you've made a very strong statement...show us where in records and where in any sort of way this is true. Certainly shamanistic religions and traditions through out the world are a more ancient way of looking at things... but what does it prove to say that the word shaman comes from this 'Obri' language when tribes in america, africa, asia, australia, south america, and north Europe do not use the term themselves?

Just a few examples , to help you understand...

1. Wind Horse...

2. Astral Traveling Journey...

3.Great Energy and Life Force , and Divine Breath...

4. Ancestral Memory , and the Return to Self...

5. What of Spin , and Charge ...?

6. Seed , and Know Thyself...?

7. Tree , and Astral Traveling...?

Have Fun..._wedgie_

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Galadraal :


Wrong , is a relative word...Are they unknowing , as to the root of the word...?


Yes , most absolutely...For instance...Eck , and Mann , both have relations , to the meaning , " to know "...


On the other hand , " An " , can also be " En " , so the word " Shamen " , is correct...


As is " Shamanka" , which came from our Tradition...


Pali , is very young to our Tradition...

[Toby Stimpson]

Galadraal :


Wrong , is a relative word...Are they unknowing , as to the root of the word...?


Yes , most absolutely...For instance...Eck , and Mann , both have relations , to the meaning , " to know "...


On the other hand , " An " , can also be " En " , so the word " Shamen " , is correct...


As is " Shamanka" , which came from our Tradition...


Pali , is very young to our Tradition...

LOL is Pali now?... well Im sure thats up to debate...but sicne all you ever seem to do is say vagueness like "Our tradition..." Its hard for me to believe that.

Also the difference between Shaman and Shamen is the differecne between regional variations in spelling.

IF the word did coem from your tradition... then still what does that prove, because universally it isnt an accepted or used word found in all languages.

If it was then maybe you could say something but we have to see and look at this logically...

IF:

A. you are referencing oral traditions that only you know of...and that cannot be found online,

B,. there is no historical, anthropological or archeological evidence showing that Shaman comes from your tradition... or from a more ancient language called Obri,

what are we to conclude, if looking at this rationally?

Like I said, you made a very bold statement... obviously trying to prove something to someone... show me that proof.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Galadraal :


1. I do not seek to prove anything...I am showing an origin of a word...


Study the multiple levels of meaning , singly , and combined , and ye shall learn much about the Shamen's Path...and be able to relate what has been written , and
revealed , about the ancient world traditions...and what hasn't...


2. As I have stated many , many times , upon this site , on different threads , what I teach , is hidden , and Oral Tradition...yet , by hard work , one may find how it
influenced the development of language , and culture , worldwide..


For instance , you should know the word , " Eck"...to us , it means seed , and has a number value of 1 , letter value " A"... Why don't you tell everyone what " Ecka" means , in Sanskrit today...?


3. Those who have eyes shall see , those who have ears , shall hear...


Those who persist in blindness , and deafness , we have never been able to help...

[Shanti]

It must be a very secret language because I have been searching for anything on an Obri language, and zero.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Shanti...Before I have to get back to Galadraal...

I never said just Obri...That is Galadraal mistake...The key , which is well known to those who have been called the Initiates , or Illuminated , around the world , is
the Obri - Runic Qabalah - Kcebealla...Go to Qabalah Sub- Forum...read my posts...

( Obri , is the name , pronounced Iburu , in Hebrew , but the
letters of the actual word , qabalalisically , are O-B-R-I...)

[Toby Stimpson]

Shawn, by no means am I attacking you or your tradition... so please dont come out of this thinking I do or am :).

But you have to udnerstand from the point of view from this student that nothing hidden in thsi world stays as secret as that. There is always some clue, some mention something in history. Even oral tradition that is secret is mentioned by someone... as you are mentioning it now. Indeed when I look online for Obri and Shaman...the only things I find are mysticwicks threads where you have posted. That is ALL i find.

You say that if I look closely enough I'll find the connections... if those connections are not there or preexisting... it is very easy for someone to come along and imaginativly find those connections, while ignoring others.

I do not take "Those who have eyes will find..." and "those who stay in blindness a snot being able to help" as solid proof of what you are saying. Like is aid even the most obscure things have historical proof...and certainly something that you claim to have been around so long will have inscriptions, mentions from other people etc,. I cannot find a single thing.

So are you saying that thsoe people who are critical of what you are saying are ignorant becasue they do not believe, or are asking you solid questions.

So far you have only offered some vague references that sidestep the questions. YOU have claimed that shaman etymologically has roots in your tradition... despite a vast majority of written evidence to the contrary. if one person claims something that is counter to the proof of others...does it make them incorrect, especially when not providing solid evidence?

Galadraal :


1. I do not seek to prove anything...I am showing an origin of a word...


Study the multiple levels of meaning , singly , and combined , and ye shall learn much about the Shamen's Path...and be able to relate what has been written , and
revealed , about the ancient world traditions...and what hasn't...


2. As I have stated many , many times , upon this site , on different threads , what I teach , is hidden , and Oral Tradition...yet , by hard work , one may find how it
influenced the development of language , and culture , worldwide..


For instance , you should know the word , " Eck"...to us , it means seed , and has a number value of 1 , letter value " A"... Why don't you tell everyone what " Ecka" means , in Sanskrit today...?


3. Those who have eyes shall see , those who have ears , shall hear...


Those who persist in blindness , and deafness , we have never been able to help...

[Shanti]

Shanti...Before I have to get back to Galadraal...

I never said just Obri...That is Galadraal mistake...The key , which is well known to those who have been called the Initiates , or Illuminated , around the world , is
the Obri - Runic Qabalah - Kcebealla...Go to Qabalah Sub- Forum...read my posts...

( Obri , is the name , pronounced Iburu , in Hebrew , but the
letters of the actual word , qabalalisically , are O-B-R-I...)And Exactly where does this info come from?

Oh I unbolded your quote because the boldness is blinding for me.

[Shanti]

I respectfully disagree , and by showing what I will be showing , I have hopes that some , at least , shall see it's more ancient lineage...for the Runic , and Obri languages , underlie all others...But that argument , is for another thread...

I got the idea to look for the Obri languages cause thats what you had said.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Galadraal :

I speak what I know...your insistence I seek to prove something , or not ,
shows a fanaticism , which is not mine...

We of the Olde Ways , have never cared whether someone believes , or does not...
That is the domain of mundanes...They argue continually amongst themselves...
Bless them on their path...

And believe me , at least when I say this...I do understand your doubt...But many things have been destroyed...History , as the traditions which have fractaled off from this one Tradition , have hidden , and destroyed the evidence , sometimes
purposefully , sometimes not...Alexandria , ring a bell ?

It all revolves around a game for POWER...those who know the real secret , the
underlying tradition of all traditions , can manipulate reality...and do...it is in
their interest , for the information to not be out there , in public , or revealed...

NOW...I can finally answer one of your first questions...Take the word used by any culture , for ANYTHING , and you would see it's origin...As I said , I was only showing a few levels of meaning , to the letters...Not , the levels I know at all , of
a very complex hypertext language of consciousness...

Now , I do feel I have answered your respectful questions...Agree to disagree...or not...I still respect you , though I say...Look Deeper...Rational and Intuitive , are
only the beginning key to consciousness...

[Shanti]

Isn't this kinda a struggle between fact and fiction?
Just because one may believe the earth is flat doesn't make it so.
If the origin of a word in known, believing whatever else doesn't make it so.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

No problem Shanti...

But as you quoted me , I said , Obri , and Runic...One must know Qabalah , and Kcebealla , with all its hypertext levels , to understand our Language , which has been called by many names , around the world , and through time...

One name , which was taken for the name of a people , and later , their variation of our Language , was Runa...Which , when the pre - Mayans adopted it , meant , The People...Later , their language was called Runa -Simi...

We are talking a Pre - flood language here...What historical records...?

As for Obri...It has also been called Sinatic Hebrew...the Phoenicians lost so
much , but they were closer than most...

[Shanti]

No problem Shanti...

But as you quoted me , I said , Obri , and Runic...One must know Qabalah , and Kcebealla , with all its hypertext levels , to understand our Language , which has been called by many names , around the world , and through time...

One name , which was taken for the name of a people , and later , their variation of our Language , was Runa...Which , when the pre - Mayans adopted it , meant , The People...Later , their language was called Runa -Simi...

We are talking a Pre - flood language here...What historical records...?

As for Obri...It has also been called Sinatic Hebrew...the Phoenicians lost so
much , but they were closer than most...
I am really confused.
Sounds like none of this is relevant nor understandable outside of your group or something?
If its your language that doesn't exist as a language and no one can understand the points your making because its all from some unknown group or something, then what is the point to begin with?

I am really confused.

Also if its so old and so unknown the letters s h a m a n wouldn't of even excited since they are romanized letters.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Shanti...

Respectfully said...those who wish to learn from me , shall...Others , may choose to believe what they want...Their choice...I do not care , have never cared , and never will care...and that truly is said respectfully...

And yet , no one in our Tradition has ever cared...As a Native American Shaman Elder said to me... " And you are going to try to teach Whites ? We have a hard enough time with our own people ..." ( His statement , not mine )

Our Tradition , was also the one which brought forth the saying...

" Do not cast pearls , before swine"...( just telling truth , NO insult intended )

We know , and have known , humans do not want to see...It is easier to remain blind

[Shanti]

Shanti...

Respectfully said...those who wish to learn from me , shall...Others , may choose to believe what they want...Their choice...I do not care , have never cared , and never will care...and that truly is said respectfully...

And yet , no one in our Tradition has ever cared...As a Native American Shaman Elder said to me... " And you are going to try to teach Whites ? We have a hard enough time with our own people ..." ( His statement , not mine )

Our Tradition , was also the one which brought forth the saying...

" Do not cast pearls , before swine"...( just telling truth , NO insult intended )

We know , and have known , humans do not want to see...It is easier to remain blind
But there is no such thing as a NA shaman. They are medicine men and woman and they have many different words for it in there native languages. So NA would be irrelevant to this conversation of the word 'shaman' origins, which are known as it has a known beginning just like many words do.
I am still really confused. What is your tradition? Is it NA or something?

If you also have respect as you claim, could you please stop bolding as I had said it hurts my eyes and I am really trying to understand.
I would like to be able to learn something in my confusion here without a headache from the reading.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Shanti : And Galadraal , and whoever else...Agree to disagree...Last Post, regarding this...then tomorrow , anybody who wishes to learn from me , can...Otherwise...

Shanti...They are not romanized letters...Latin, is a fractal of our Language...Did you read my postings in Qabalah ?

The benefit to all , is learning the language of Consciousness , they , and the Universe , is written in...The underlying program...

All languages are a subset of the CODE...

All cultures , are a subset of the CODE...

You , are a subset of the CODE...

The KEY , is to KNOW THYSELF...

I have offered to teach this...I was told September...But I will Not teach it with constantly having to argue it ...

And as I said earlier...It is a game , played by some , who want to stay in POWER...

Want to learn what the Big Boys , and Secret Societies Know , or do you want to argue ? ( Respectfully Said...)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Thin letters give me a headache and hurt my eyes...I have tried many variations to please others...I also have to be able to see , and my eyes need bold...Or italisized , which I have been told , is hard too...

[Shawn Blackwolf]

And Shanti , if you want to stop being confused , and really understand...

Read my postings , in Qabalah...Language is not what you , or others have been told...Enough said...

Anybody want to look into the word Shaman , via the Olde Language...?

( Pre - Flood , Pre - Babel )

[Shanti]

Huh?
When did I argue anything?

I am trying to understand and asking for clarity.
Gee I don't know how anyone can learn if your not willing to communicate anything when asked for clarity.

The code? I bet you wont explain that either huh?

Well thanks for clearing that all up.
I am so less confused.

And no I didn't read your postings in Qabalah because I am not into the Qabalah .
This is the Shamanism forum, not the Qabalah forum.
And if you always bold and cap stuff in your post, I doubt I have read hardly anything you have posted since I said it hurts my eyes.

Oh and thank you for the courtesy of turning off the boldness so I could converse easier with you. Very polite of you.

[Toby Stimpson]

I speak what I know...your insistence I seek to prove something , or not ,
shows a fanaticism , which is not mine...


Not so much fanaticism... more query as to why you are saying the things you are and what proof you have other than an oral tradition no one ahs ever heard of.


We of the Olde Ways , have never cared whether someone believes , or does not...
That is the domain of mundanes...They argue continually amongst themselves...
Bless them on their path...


II think you should... becasue it is so easy for one eprson to claim things... and in some ways disrespect a LOT of established and existing ancient traditions by claims that are so counter and so in some ways condascending. If this is the way of mundanes, why bother even putting it out there. If you are truly saying something that is true, there will be proof... there will be proof not just in cryptic connections but in books from around the world. Conspiracy theories never go well in debate.


And believe me , at least when I say this...I do understand your doubt...But many things have been destroyed...History , as the traditions which have fractaled off from this one Tradition , have hidden , and destroyed the evidence , sometimes
purposefully , sometimes not...Alexandria , ring a bell ?


Alkexandria only held a small number of the worlds ancient knowledge. See what is so unbelievable about your claims is that you mesh so many ancient things into together that it is so difficult to sort things out. Alexandria contained texts of roman, mesopatamian, egyptian, and soem chinese and Indian books. What happened to it was regrettable...but I fail to see how a single library burning down will stop even a single mention of your tradition that you claim to be underlying everything else. Surely there would be atleast even 1 mention in the vast number of literiture in the past 2000 years... books that were banned of a lot less significance have survived.


It all revolves around a game for POWER...those who know the real secret , the
underlying tradition of all traditions , can manipulate reality...and do...it is in
their interest , for the information to not be out there , in public , or revealed...


If there is a conspiracy... why is no one stopping you from spreading this knowledge right now?


NOW...I can finally answer one of your first questions...Take the word used by any culture , for ANYTHING , and you would see it's origin...As I said , I was only showing a few levels of meaning , to the letters...Not , the levels I know at all , of
a very complex hypertext language of consciousness...


But we know the originas of the word Shaman. Linguists have traced it and there is too much written evidence by too many linguists and people around the world. You offer nothing but your word, and your insistance that it is from your tradition. thta is all you offer. And for you to say that your tradition just so happens to be underlying everything else, and to be so secret that no one knows about it but you... seems TOO conveniant for me. So, although Im unprepared to say you are wrong...I will say that I have a high doubt based on logical reasons and available evidence that what you are saying is true.


Now , I do feel I have answered your respectful questions...Agree to disagree...or not...I still respect you , though I say...Look Deeper...Rational and Intuitive , are
only the beginning key to consciousness...


Rational and Intuitive are among the building blocks. I respect you as i respect everyone :)... but Im not prepared to agree to disagree when you have offered no credible evidence whatsoever for your claims. and by the looks of it Shanti doesnt either.

You offer an interesting point of view, but you cross the line when you say that your tradition (which up to this point there is no other mention of on the Internet) is the origin of the theme and the word. I mean I do encourage you to present your alternative points of view from your tradition, as Im sure it will only add to the discussion...but do not go over the line and claim thigns that cannot be backed up.

[Shanti]

I still dont have a clue what your tradition even is!
Heck, what region is it from?
That helps alot too with understanding.

Oh and I see you said the boldness you need. I had no clue.
It does help when there is actual communication.

Oh and I can not disagree with something I dont even understand the point of.

[Toby Stimpson]

This is far stepping over the line, it is one thing to offer a point of view based on your tradition and quite another claim that your tradition founded all others and all cultures. Without any real evidence, your claims must be viewed as false.

Do not mistake criticism and debate as arguing. Arguing is when people become hot and heated. So far you have offered nothing credible to back up your point of view except condascending statements that people do not know what they are talking about, or that what they have been taught is wrong. Please refrain from saying such things. A lot of people here, and in this shamanism forum have taken time to research, and theres a lot of learned people here. if they disagree with you and ask you to back up what you are saying with evidence...do not turn around and say they eithr are arguing or not wanting to learn.

Further more, fi you cannot survive gentle debate from merely two people who are confused with what you are talking about...or disagree with what you are claiming and decided to say blatantly "I am leaving, no one else question me..." why do you bother giving us this information in the first place? Surely you must know that people here know their stuff and will challenge claims... or eprhaps you are not as open to debate or challenges as others here are.

P.S. I know little lines bother my eyes too...and this yellow font doesn't really help. It was better when it was green...but it could have something to do with your monitor resolution??

Shanti : And Galadraal , and whoever else...Agree to disagree...Last Post, regarding this...then tomorrow , anybody who wishes to learn from me , can...Otherwise...

Shanti...They are not romanized letters...Latin, is a fractal of our Language...Did you read my postings in Qabalah ?

The benefit to all , is learning the language of Consciousness , they , and the Universe , is written in...The underlying program...

All languages are a subset of the CODE...

All cultures , are a subset of the CODE...

You , are a subset of the CODE...

The KEY , is to KNOW THYSELF...

I have offered to teach this...I was told September...But I will Not teach it with constantly having to argue it ...

And as I said earlier...It is a game , played by some , who want to stay in POWER...

Want to learn what the Big Boys , and Secret Societies Know , or do you want to argue ? ( Respectfully Said...)

[Shanti]

If you're saying this is your opinion of the words origins, then I agree with you.
See, your opinion is your truth as you know it. So its correct, for you.
I can say I do not share your opinion as I have my own, but I can not say your opinion is incorrect for you.

But if you are saying the origins of the word as you have placed are fact, then I disagree as the origins are known and the earth will not be factual flat no matter how hard you try to convince another.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Shanti...


I was not saying you were argueing , per se , but you won't look where there are pages of information , explaining the questions you are asking...


That is why those pages are there...To help others understand the things I am saying...I cannot replicate it , each time I post...So it was suggested , I post the information there;


And Galadraal is but one who continually challenges , yet does not listen , when I say straight out I have offered to teach the language , IF , and only IF , I don't have to continually do this...Answer endless challenges / arguing , that take away from the time , and ability , to impart the information , and slowly point out the evidence which does exist...scattered around the world , past and present , but in ways it takes time , and PATIENT study to see...Not a instamatic , give it now , mentality...



And Galadraal...Check my other threads , scattered around...Someone did send someone to take me out...I am most lucky , and blessed , to be here...


Monitor resolution ? don't know...New to computerland, but I dont see the letters as yellow...


I give the knowledge to share what I know , with those ready to hear it...


The way I was raised , people did not debate...we shared , and if someone did not care for what you said , or I did not care for what someone else said , I went elsewhere ( vice - versa ) and let those who wanted to hear it , hear it...


I was taught , that was respect...Not demanding answers from someone , or even if and when someone gives answers , furthering debate , because the answers are unsatisfactory...in your , or others minds...I , for one , have never , and will never understand that mentality...Absolutely foreign to me , and I personally , want no part of it...


And you say my claims must be false...First , I do not make claims...I do not seek to prove , or disprove...I state what I know...That's It...


And since Native American Shamans , Vedic Scholars , and Eastern Teachers , Rosicrucians , Masons , and others have confirmed what I know , and what I am saying , among others , do you really think it matters , when others choose not to believe ?


I am on this site , this forum , this thread , because if I can offer one person the knowledge , to help them , then I have done my part... As my Tradition , has always taught ...

We do our best , and try...As Woman Monster's signature says : " I Love Against The Tide "...

Blessings , and Good Night...:hahugh:

[Shanti]

Shanti...
I was not saying you were argueing , per se , but you won't look where there are pages of information , explaining the questions you are asking..
You have hundreds of post on MW. I really dont care to pick through lord knows how many. Heck 634!!

That is why those pages are there...To help others understand the things I am
saying...I cannot replicate it , each time I post...So it was suggested , I post the information there...Maybe narrow it down by linking or something.

And Galadraal is but one who continually challenges , yet does not listen , when I say straight out I have offered to teach the language , IF , and only IF , I don't have to continually do this...Answer endless challenges / arguing , that take away from the time , and ability , to impart the information , and slowly point out the evidence which does exist...scattered around the world , past and present , but in ways it takes time , and PATIENT study to see...Not a instamatic , give it now , mentality...How can one learn if they dont ask questions.



And Galadraal...Check my other threads , scattered around...Someone did send someone to take me out...I am most lucky , and blessed , to be here...

Monitor resolution ? don't know...New to computerland, but I dont see the letters as yellow...

I give the knowledge to share what I know , with those ready to hear it...

The way I was raised , people did not debate...we shared , and if someone did not care for what you said , or I did not care for what someone else said , I went elsewhere ( vice - versa ) and let those who wanted to hear it , hear it...

I was taught , that was respect...Not demanding answers from someone , or even if and when someone gives answers , furthering debate , because the answers are unsatisfactory...in your , or others minds...I , for one , have never , and will never understand that mentality...Absolutely foreign to me , and I personally , want no part of it...But we are not you.
My beliefs,path says to always ask questions and believe nothing till you have tested it for yourself and found it to be true for you.

And you say my claims must be false...First , I do not make claims...I do not seek
to prove , or disprove...I state what I know...That's It...Nothing is 'fact' till its proven so.

And since Native American Shamans , Vedic Scholars , and Eastern Teachers ,
Rosicrucians , Masons , and others have confirmed what I know , and what I am saying , among others , do you really think it matters , when others choose not to believe ? They all agree with your opinion of the origin of this word? Thats new to me.

I am on this site , this forum , this thread , because if I can offer one person the knowledge , to help them , then I have done my part... As my Tradition , has
always taught ...We do our best , and try...As Woman Monster's signature says :

" I Love Against The Tide "...Blessings , and Good Night...:hahugh: It would help for those who dont instantly understand if you would help a little. But I guess if there isnt instant understanding and belief then its not worth your time?
I think thats kind of cold personally for myself to refuse those who ask for further info and clarity.

[Simply Puzzled]

I give the knowledge to share what I know , with those ready to hear it...

The way I was raised , people did not debate...we shared , and if someone did not care for what you said , or I did not care for what someone else said , I went elsewhere ( vice - versa ) and let those who wanted to hear it , hear it...

Suppose I murdered Shanti (not that I would do that, you rock). When the police come, half the witnesses say that I murdered Shanti, and half the witnesses say that Galadraal murdered Shanti. Half of them are right, and half them the are wrong, and a lot of people have a serious stake in the outcome. If they let me go, I'm going to come back and murder a few more people on MysticWicks (again, analogy, not a threat). So suppose the police come and interview the witnesses that say two conflicting, mutually exclusive things. Instead of investigating the claims, they just decide they should listen and accept both things without prejudice and without questioning. Nobody is going to go to jail or everybody is going to go to jail, in which cause poor Galadraal is being punished for something he didn't do.

Our minds have definite filters that tend to throw out information that disagrees with them, even if that information is right ("humans can't have common origin with apes"), so we need to be open to new information, but we must always analyze it against our reason and empirical evidence. Otherwise we end up in the above situation. You are asking people to accept information (or not) that disagrees with a lot of what I know is empirically true, and you are providing no support for your beliefs. If you ask us to simply accept them without reason, you ask us to surround ourselves to you. This is the tactic of a cult, not of a genuine spirituality.

I'll give you a great opportunity to provide evidence of an antediluvian common language. Please translate the above paragraph into the language, transliterated into the modern Latin alphabet. My linguistics are minimal, but they are enough that I will know if you are bullshitting or if it is evidence of a unique language that forms the roots of modern day language. If it is the latter, then we could have a rational basis on which to base our trust in your system and perhaps learn from it. Otherwise, we have no way to tell truth from bullshit.

[Toby Stimpson]

And Galadraal is but one who continually challenges , yet does not listen , when I say straight out I have offered to teach the language , IF , and only IF , I don't have to continually do this...Answer endless challenges / arguing , that take away from the time , and ability , to impart the information , and slowly point out the evidence which does exist...scattered around the world , past and present , but in ways it takes time , and PATIENT study to see...Not a instamatic , give it now , mentality...


I read every single word you and others write. Learning a language is not required to understand even a little of what someone is talking about. Now, this doesn't come down to language, this debate comes down to whether or not you are using factually based evidence. I would be the first to salute and encourage you to teach this language...but it becomes very doubtful when this language you speak of has no record written about it other than the words you write down in this website.


And Galadraal...Check my other threads , scattered around...Someone did send someone to take me out...I am most lucky , and blessed , to be here...

Monitor resolution ? don't know...New to computerland, but I dont see the letters as yellow...


Why should I check other posts you have made on this website when it has no bearing on the topic at hand?

As for screen resolution. Well, each screen has settings where you can adjust the brightness or contrast. If something is too bright then you can change the screen to appear darker...if something is too dark you can change the screen to be a bit lighter, you know what I mean.


I give the knowledge to share what I know , with those ready to hear it...

The way I was raised , people did not debate...we shared , and if someone did not care for what you said , or I did not care for what someone else said , I went elsewhere ( vice - versa ) and let those who wanted to hear it , hear it...


Knowledge is in many forms. There is personal knowledge, historical knowledge, evidence based knowledge and opinion based on knowledge. The knowledge you know will be different from mine becasue of our perceptions of it. my perception is that I am not getting any knowledge from you because it seems that there is no backing for it.

As for the way you were raised. That is all true and good, however when you are talking about history or about linguistics or about anything... anyone ahs the right to ask questions if they disagree. Just as you have a right to disagree and ask questions for clarification. If I see something that I disagree with, or that someone is saying something that is factually incorrect, Im going to ask that eprson how they came to that conclusion. If I dont et a response that is adequent to my standards, and this sounds bratty :p... but Im going to keep asking that person questions. Just as anyone ahs the right to ask me questions and to question my facts.

If I say that my family once ruled a country... and someone asks me which country...and i say poland...and someone asks me the years my family ruled Poland, and I say 2000 years ago... and someone looks up historical records that shows my family did not rule that country... is it arguing and 'demanding' answers from me if that person still persists in doubting? If I am told that my family ruled Poland 2000 years ago... and I am ignorant or think that historical facts are incorrect... who is incorrect in this situation?

And you say my claims must be false...First , I do not make claims...I do not seek
to prove , or disprove...I state what I know...That's It...


Ok, fair enough. But you are stating what you know... is it so unfair for people to be asking you a. How you know that... b. why is it contradicting other available evidence...and c. What evidence do you have to back up your 'knowledge?' I mean after all if soemone says something that is contradictory to available knowledge, it becomes a claim. A claim only becomes accepted fact after a lot of evidence presented to disprove the previous assertion is given. So far, you have given little credible evidence... which makes what you are saying a claim.


And since Native American Shamans , Vedic Scholars , and Eastern Teachers ,
Rosicrucians , Masons , and others have confirmed what I know , and what I am saying , among others , do you really think it matters , when others choose not to believe ?


How? Perhaps there is a correspondance with personal gnosis... but how do they confirm what you know? Thgis goes back to the forms of knowledge. If you are saying that they share personal spiritual knowledge...then i can somewhat agree. if you are saying that they all agree and confirm that a language called Obri and that the word shaman coems from this language... first Id like to know how such different groups would do this...and wheres the written proof? Like Ive stressed time and again... there is NO mention of this in any translated into english literiture. And believe you me... I identify as a Hindu and am versed somewhat in hindu lore... and I have never heard of 'Obri' at all before you showed up on this website.

[Toby Stimpson]

Nobody is going to go to jail or everybody is going to go to jail, in which cause poor Galadraal is being punished for something he didn't do.

I'll give you a great opportunity to provide evidence of an antediluvian common language. Please translate the above paragraph into the language, transliterated into the modern Latin alphabet. My linguistics are minimal, but they are enough that I will know if you are bullshitting or if it is evidence of a unique language that forms the roots of modern day language. If it is the latter, then we could have a rational basis on which to base our trust in your system and perhaps learn from it. Otherwise, we have no way to tell truth from bullshit.

Poor little Galadraal isnt cut out for prison :O... Big Bubba scares me!

I would say this is a reasonable thing. After all, if you are looking forward to teaching the language Shawn, surely you can translate it :).

[Shawn Blackwolf]

You have hundreds of post on MW. I really dont care to pick through lord knows how many. Heck 634!!

Maybe narrow it down by linking or something.
.....................................................................
I have done so now , many times , bystating my threads in the Qabalah Sub Forum...
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How can one learn if they dont ask questions.
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Asking questions is half...listening to a person's answers with heart , and head is another...And whether one likes the answers , or not , and this is not directed at you , Shanti , giving them the chance to breath before the next post , by the same , or other people...I know people on this site , as well as others , who have stopped posting for the kind of behavior going on here...They feel jumped on , whether any of you can see it or not...and there feelings of that are valid...This is why people don't answer , or use the ignore button...Which Galadraal was stating he felt hurt when people did not answer his posts , on a thread about that very thing...I can't remember the name of that thread , but Galadraal knows...A person , can only take so much , before they want to stop replying...And we are not obligated to , no matter what anybody says , thinks , or accuses us of , because we get fed up...
.......................................................................
But we are not you.
My beliefs,path says to always ask questions and believe nothing till you have tested it for yourself and found it to be true for you.

.......................................................................

Asking , and learning , does not have to take the form of debate , but for some people , that is all they seem to know...My path starts from belief, then sees where
things are , or are not true...others start from doubt , and demand proof...And , I agree , one must , in the end , make something theirs...that is why , on this thread , and others , I have repeatedly offered to teach it , under certain conditions , which would make it possible to do so...Where people , studying for years , patiently , as I , and others , including my students have , to see the pattern , and validity.
.................................................................................................... ..................

Nothing is 'fact' till its proven so.

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See above...Patient learning , over years , produces that proof , for each person...

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They all agree with your opinion of the origin of this word? Thats new to me.

.......................................................................

Never stated that...They agree with the knowledge of the Original Language...
Giving all other Languages their root...and more...
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It would help for those who dont instantly understand if you would help a little. But I guess if there isnt instant understanding and belief then its not worth your time?

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You see , this is why people stop answering posts...I have more than TRIED to help but I am not even acknowledged for the last ten , or more replies...Where , whether to your satisfaction , or not , I have TRIED...

I put it in others ballpark...They seem to want INSTANT PROOF...which this Tradition can not , nor is not meant to give...Patient study , and learning...

......................................................................
I think thats kind of cold personally for myself to refuse those who ask for further info and clarity.

And I find others behavior cold , when I continually try to answer , and am not acknowledged , for trying , nor heard...Speaking of...

A number of posts back , I can't even find which one right now...You asked me about " Na" ...I never said " Na" ...I did say " Runa"...

And there...tried again...Do remember everyone...I am a one fingered typist...

I feel I'm doing pretty damn good here...Whether you do , or not...:)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Let's get this straight , Simply Puzzled...I can understand your request , up to a point...actually , you are giving me something I could work with...But which paragraph ? And I don't honestly understand your full request...I could put a word into the language , yes...for that matter...a sentence , or a paragraph...but then what are you asking for...?

And I appreciate your courtesy here...It helps...:)

I will do what I can , even if it takes days...with time off , for fun , and life , of course...:)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Galadraal :

Re: Post following Simply Puzzled 's...

1. There is just a smidgen of frustration on my part here...This is what I mean , about you not reading what I say...

The Language is Obri and Runic , together...Called Runa...and many , many other names , in different times , and places around the world...In the Eastern Tradition , one of it's names , was the Naga Tongue...( That is NEW information )...The rest , I said at least a couple of times...

2.You did ask , if people didn't want the information out , why wasn't I being stopped...I was not going to go through another tale of what happened to me...

How someone ( s ) did try to take me out...That is why I suggested you check it out...So it had a bearing on the topic at hand...I was patiently ( mostly )...answering
all the questions thrown at me...

3. Yes , learning the Language , is the only way , for anyone to truly grasp the immensity of what I am speaking of...

We are speaking of a Hypertext Language of Consciousness...you know , there might be a way for me to get this through to you...from an Eastern perspective...
This is the Language which underlies , and helps you see MAYA...

You got to get into it , to get out of it...As Frank Zappa said...Headlong into the abyss

And in answer to the rest of your post...The evidence is you , and is all around you ,
you just have to know the language to see it...EVERYWHERE....

Isn't that what is said of Maya...? It is everywhere ?...Though we call it enchantment
not illusion...

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Okay , Last One...No more ...I'm beat...I've done great , whether anyone acknowledges it , or not...

Galadraal :

See my post to Simply Puzzled...I am willing to try to satisfy his request...If he helps me understand better what he wants...

BUT...and I mean this , not just to you , but anyone else , including Shanti...

I can not have my life , have fun , post elsewhere , answer his request , eat , sleep , AND answer aother barrage of posts...That is unreasonable to expect...

So , I ask you all...let me attempt to give Simply Puzzled his answer...

( I don't want you to be Puzzled forever...:nyah: )

I am trying here ...As I have tried , SOOO patiently , overall , almost every time I have posted...in so many threads...this isn't the first...

Whether anyone appreciates it , or not...Think what I am going through , and enduring , on my side , to bring what I consider a gift...Knowledge...

A little love , and compassion , would be nice...Without the stipulation of
" Well , you said it , now you have to prove it "...

I challenge all of you...make me want to show it to you , as your friend...

That is who I am , and how I operate...Otherwise...Why Try ? IMHO...:)

[Paracelsus]

This language of your Shawn isn't the one that overthrows Maya, that is Sanskrit - which is the closest actual language to your concept of hypertextual linguistics. Sanskrit is understood as a method to create reality, rather than describe it, so I suppose that is what you are driving at.
I think that the difficulty that we are having (and I have read most of your other posts elsewhere, as I do you find a lot of what you say very interesting, although strictly from the viewpoint of a UPG) is that you are playing the old game of "I'm on the inside, with all this great knowledge, and will drop crumbs and secrets to you suckers out there" Now that worked quite well for the HOGD, and others, as people at the time had comparatively little access to information, and the kinds of understandings that were being talked about had not been subjected to academic study. That is no longer the case. Hence when you talk about "your tradition", that's fine - although it would in fact be fascinating to know how many other people share it.
Thus it is perfectly acceptable for you to say "this is how it appears to me", but to make a-historical links, and claim to be the only one with access to the truth behind everything in an objective rather than subjective sense, is just complete tosh. People don't want to play that game of "the hidden masters" or the "great white brotherhood" , or anything with "alternative spellings" - we don't buy it.
If you think about it, reading back through what you're written in this conversation alone you conflate at least six distinct and separate cultures - all of which are separate and distinct, and should be respectfully treated as such. If you want to re-write world history for your convenience, that's fine, provided that you don't claim objective truth for it - for it is, as all truths actually are, only subjective.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Paracelsus :

Older than Sanskrit...If you have read my posts , you would know I have stated that...

And been told that , by some people , who have great wisdom under their belt...

And NOT because they agree with me...

And again , if you read my posts , you would know I am not playing a game of crumbs...I offered one month ago , to begin A YEAR AND A DAY class , which is the minimum it takes , to really grasp the language...for a beginning...

So , with respect ...Incorrect...I'm going to have some fun, elsewhere...

Simply Puzzled...Please PM me...Blessings to all...:)

[Toby Stimpson]

Let's get this straight , Simply Puzzled...I can understand your request , up to a point...actually , you are giving me something I could work with...But which paragraph ? And I don't honestly understand your full request...I could put a word into the language , yes...for that matter...a sentence , or a paragraph...but then what are you asking for...?


No shawn... I think its quite understandable what SimplyPuzzled has asked for. he wants you to translate a paragraph he wrote HERE (the second paragraph in his post) into your supposed language.

Older than Sanskrit...If you have read my posts , you would know I have stated that...

And been told that , by some people , who have great wisdom under their belt...


Again, what proof do you have of this? Its so easy to say you were told this...but really, objectivly how do you know?

And again , if you read my posts , you would know I am not playing a game of crumbs...I offered one month ago , to begin A YEAR AND A DAY class , which is the minimum it takes , to really grasp the language...for a beginning...

So , with respect ...Incorrect...I'm going to have some fun, elsewhere...


Please refrain from bringing other posts you have made. There thousands of members on Mysticwicks, not just you. People may not have time to go back and read your posts and so what is important is to keep the debate in this debate.

See my post to Simply Puzzled...I am willing to try to satisfy his request...If he helps me understand better what he wants...

BUT...and I mean this , not just to you , but anyone else , including Shanti...

I can not have my life , have fun , post elsewhere , answer his request , eat , sleep , AND answer aother barrage of posts...That is unreasonable to expect...

So , I ask you all...let me attempt to give Simply Puzzled his answer...


With respect... I have made many valid points and so has shanti that you have sidestepped up until now. You cannot expect us not to reply when indeed you have not answered any of the questions, except with vague promises.

I am trying here ...As I have tried , SOOO patiently , overall , almost every time I have posted...in so many threads...this isn't the first...

Whether anyone appreciates it , or not...Think what I am going through , and enduring , on my side , to bring what I consider a gift...Knowledge...

A little love , and compassion , would be nice...Without the stipulation of
" Well , you said it , now you have to prove it "...


I think you keep mistaking criticism and questions as rude attacks. They are not, and neither are they uncompassionate.

Shawn personally I don't see any validity in what you are saying because it is completely against everything that is written and I mean quite frankly I am not going to believe you just because you are saying it. With my tradition I can show people when asked how I draw my beliefs and where from. Someone can ask me why I worship Shiva and I can give answers and quote sources. You dont, you have not quoted sources and you just keep giving 'information,'.

It is all fine to say you are giving the gift of 'knowledge' but really shawn the way you present it and it's validity is very very important. And given no evidence of this things existing, not even a single mention... you cannot claim to hold a truth. Further more when your facts don't even make sense to even minor historical fact... what am I to believe? People are not attacking you, they are again being confused and in my case not believing you...and asking you for sources.



We are speaking of a Hypertext Language of Consciousness...you know , there might be a way for me to get this through to you...from an Eastern perspective...
This is the Language which underlies , and helps you see MAYA...

You got to get into it , to get out of it...As Frank Zappa said...Headlong into the abyss

If this is so...why is it not written in any Hindu text?? Why is it that Sanskrit writing is the only ancient language we see in inscriptions in India? Again you make a bold claim, but wheres the proof?


3. Yes , learning the Language , is the only way , for anyone to truly grasp the immensity of what I am speaking of...


Shawn, I even doubt this language exists...let alone that it can teach anything. Again you make bold claims...but this language is not mentioned once in history... how do you account for this?

And in answer to the rest of your post...The evidence is you , and is all around you ,
you just have to know the language to see it...EVERYWHERE....


No shawn... evidence takes the form of yes personal transformation... but also of credible realistic material evidence. But again this is nothing but vague sidestepping. You lack any credible evidence... you have none to offer. Allow me to tell you that if you were presenting this information at the parliament of Religions... you would probably be asked to leave the stage. Show us inscriptions, show us books that were written about it,... show us. Because until you do, I doubt anyone here is satisfied with your answers... and thus you have no legs to stand on to make such contradictory false claims.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Galadraal...I give up on you ...I have answered the questions , very well , and overall patiently...

My choice now , is to put you on ignore , which you do not like , or ask for the thread to be closed...There is no satisfying you...Broken record...

I do respect you...But I can't give YOU , what YOU , or Others , may want;

That has nothing to do with whether what I teach is valid , or not...
No matter what is thought ...Blessings...Out...

[Toby Stimpson]

Galadraal...I give up on you ...I have answered the questions , very well , and overall patiently...

My choice now , is to put you on ignore , which you do not like , or ask for the thread to be closed...There is no satisfying you...Broken record...

I do respect you...But I can't give YOU , what YOU , or Others , may want;

That has nothing to do with whether what I teach is valid , or not...
No matter what is thought ...Blessings...Out...

Im sorry you feel that way :(. But again what you are offering is not credible evidence in my eyes... if there was evidence that what you were doing existed... well we could move on to the next step. But with that doubt hanging and looming over us, I cannot take what you say on this topic atleast in much stride.

[Vigdisdotter]

Shanti : And Galadraal , and whoever else...Agree to disagree...

Now *I* am confused. How can anyone agree to disagree when you haven't even made a case fro you claim?

Nothing you've posted seems remotely relevant let alone is supportive your ideas.

And as someone who reads, carves and stains the runes, I fail to see how your brief over view of the runes in any proves your contention. One can after all find Shamanic relevance in ALL the runes.

By the way, what's you're referance for Ehwaz having a phonetic value of "an"? Every source I've seen puts it at "eh."

[Vigdisdotter]

Galadraal...I give up on you ...I have answered the questions , very well , and overall patiently...

I don't know how to say this tactfully so I shall just say it bluntly: no you haven't.

All you done' is use unsupported claims to supposed support your other claims. That's not an answer, that is a logical fallacy.

If you are really interested in teaching, then you need to give you students something to work with. If it's just your own personal gnosis, great, good for you, all such things have value. But as long as you are claiming something to be FACT, then you need to PROVE it as such. The claim itself is not enough and getting flustered with other pointing this out to you isn't an answer either.

There isn't anyhtign WRONG with admitting that somethign is a personal gnosis. We're pagans for crying out load. Perosnal gnosis plays a huge part in most of our individuals paths. But looking at your many unsupported claims both in this and other threads, it seems to me like you feel that personal gnosis really isn't good enough, so you try to pass it off as fact, which leads to a lot of problems with others because you can't or won't substantiate it.

If you really want to avoid "debate" then stop claiming your unsupported ideas are factual.

[Toby Stimpson]

I don't know how to say this tactfully so I shall just say it bluntly: no you haven't.

All you done' is use unsupported claims to supposed support your other claims. That's not an answer, that is a logical fallacy.

If you are really interested in teaching, then you need to give you students something to work with. If it's just your own personal gnosis, great, good for you, all such things have value. But as long as you are claiming something to be FACT, then you need to PROVE it as such. The claim itself is not enough and getting flustered with other pointing this out to you isn't an answer either.

There isn't anyhtign WRONG with admitting that somethign is a personal gnosis. We're pagans for crying out load. Perosnal gnosis plays a huge part in most of our individuals paths. But looking at your many unsupported claims both in this and other threads, it seems to me like you feel that personal gnosis really isn't good enough, so you try to pass it off as fact, which leads to a lot of problems with others because you can't or won't substantiate it.

If you really want to avoid "debate" then stop claiming your unsupported ideas are factual.

very well said :)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

When , and if I teach at this point , there will be many study sheets ,
well detailed...which I have been using for years to teach...

Vigdisdotter...29 , not 24 Rune System...Women's system of Blood Runes...

And , yes , I have done well , and tried my absolute best , to show what I can , being limited in what I may present at the time...

Complain to the rules , which would not allow me to begin posting study sheets , and teaching , last month...

But I am not going to wait three months , or a year and a day , to speak what I know , and Others have confirmed , to be true...Blessings...

I shall be asking for the thread to be closed ...Forum Guide ? Admn...?

Please Close Thread...I have done my best here...

[Shanti]

I still dont know what this tradition of yours is or where it is even from.

Simple question.
No answer.

And I too am very busy and have to stretch my time in quick post.

[Toby Stimpson]

But I am not going to wait three months , or a year and a day , to speak what I know , and Others have confirmed , to be true...Blessings...


How have they confirmed what you know though...who has?

[Vigdisdotter]

When , and if I teach at this point , there will be many study sheets ,
well detailed...which I have been using for years to teach...

<sigh> round and round we go.....

What you are using doesn't matter. It's not RELEVANT. I don't know how to get that across to you. You haven't supported you claims. ANY of them and until you do no one has to take your word for it that any of your "teachings" are factual.

Frankly if I met you at an open circle and you claimed to be teacher, I would listen to what you had to say, but as soon as you avoided supporting your claims (as you have on this thread) I would walk away and find someone else to talk to.

[skilly-nilly]

If you think about it, reading back through what you're written in this conversation alone you conflate at least six distinct and separate cultures - all of which are separate and distinct, and should be respectfully treated as such. If you want to re-write world history for your convenience, that's fine, provided that you don't claim objective truth for it - for it is, as all truths actually are, only subjective.


With my tradition I can show people when asked how I draw my beliefs and where from. Someone can ask me why I worship Shiva and I can give answers and quote sources. You dont, you have not quoted sources and you just keep giving 'information,'.

Shawn, I even doubt this language exists...let alone that it can teach anything. Again you make bold claims...but this language is not mentioned once in history... how do you account for this?



There isn't anyhtign WRONG with admitting that somethign is a personal gnosis. We're pagans for crying out load. Perosnal gnosis plays a huge part in most of our individuals paths. But looking at your many unsupported claims both in this and other threads, it seems to me like you feel that personal gnosis really isn't good enough, so you try to pass it off as fact, which leads to a lot of problems with others because you can't or won't substantiate it.

If you really want to avoid "debate" then stop claiming your unsupported ideas are factual.


I know that Shawn altready sees me as a 'doubter' and won't answer any points that I make but I wanted to say:
on the one hand--nice points, and well made!

on the other hand--personal gnosis over-rides historical fact, but ONLY for the person who has the revelation. And it has to be presented as such.

On the gripping hand--I too find these claims about a "pre-Babel" universal language hard to accept. As oddly as the words Shawn has disclosed to us are spelled, they are all English-based words.
For example, Shawn has used the term "Olde Wietchcrreayafth " which, if you sound it out, is very like Old Witchcraft.
But in Irish Gaelic (part of my Path) there is no actual word that translates to 'witch' but a whole host of different more specific words referring to the practice the individual is engaged in. Andf none of them are anything like the English.

English isn't even close to being a primal language--it's a smoosh of German, Anglo-Saxon, and French and quite modern. So I find it suspicious that the words Shawn is revealing are so like English.

[Toby Stimpson]

I know that Shawn altready sees me as a 'doubter' and won't answer any points that I make but I wanted to say:
on the one hand--nice points, and well made!


Cool thankyou :). Yes I have noticed that when Shawn feels he is losing, or cannot produce any credible arguments, he tends to not return to a thread and/or calls people names in a condascending way.


on the other hand--personal gnosis over-rides historical fact, but ONLY for the person who has the revelation. And it has to be presented as such.


Exactly, it has to be presented a such and not as historical fact.


On the gripping hand--I too find these claims about a "pre-Babel" universal language hard to accept. As oddly as the words Shawn has disclosed to us are spelled, they are all English-based words.
For example, Shawn has used the term "Olde Wietchcrreayafth " which, if you sound it out, is very like Old Witchcraft.
But in Irish Gaelic (part of my Path) there is no actual word that translates to 'witch' but a whole host of different more specific words referring to the practice the individual is engaged in. Andf none of them are anything like the English.


Its amazing how that works, isnt it? I mean is it not easy for someone to slap an 'e' on the end to make things seeme a little more anciente?

I also like who when you search on google for Obri-Runic, all you get are other forums that Blackwolf has posted on:

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=obri-runic&btnG=Google+Search&meta=


English isn't even close to being a primal language--it's a smoosh of German, Anglo-Saxon, and French and quite modern. So I find it suspicious that the words Shawn is revealing are so like English.

Very suspicious.

I think whats bugs me is the fact that he wont come by and either admit he is bullshitting, or produce any evidence. he really doesn't hold up much in a debate, instead resorting to small tactics like derailing the topic with his 'knowledge'

And your right, english isnt a primal language, so it is suspicious when sounded out the words look like they are english words gone through madgab.

[Simply Puzzled]

[B][FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]Let's get this straight , Simply Puzzled...I can understand your request , up to a point...actually , you are giving me something I could work with...But which paragraph ? And I don't honestly understand your full request...I could put a word into the language , yes...for that matter...a sentence , or a paragraph...but then what are you asking for...?

I will make this as clear as I possibly can. I would like you to take the paragraph immediately following this sentence in quotation marks and translate it into your alleged language.

"Our minds have definite filters that tend to throw out information that disagrees with them, even if that information is right ("humans can't have common origin with apes"), so we need to be open to new information, but we must always analyze it against our reason and empirical evidence. Otherwise we end up in the above situation. You are asking people to accept information (or not) that disagrees with a lot of what I know is empirically true, and you are providing no support for your beliefs. If you ask us to simply accept them without reason, you ask us to surround ourselves to you. This is the tactic of a cult, not of a genuine spirituality."

I am unsure of the alphabet used by your language and whether or not it can be handled by computers. Therefore, it is preferred that you type in the alphabet used in English. However, you are free to use common transliterations for sounds not present in English, such as the double l of Welsh or the ch of Hebrew, if you specify that is what you are doing. OR you may type the entire thing out in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA). Should a sound not be present in the IPA, and you have no way to express it, please assign a symbol to it, i.e. $, and provide an audio file that accompanies it, if possible. Don't even worry about grammar marks beyond separating sentences with a period.

If you fail to understand any of these instructions, please do your best to type the paragraph within the quotation marks, and we can work out the details of exactly how you translated it into English later. Failing to understand exactly what you are supposed to translate, please provide us with a translation of any well-known work: a sonnet of Shakespeare, a section of the Declaration of Independence, or a few paragraphs from Harry Potter.

[Philosophia]

There are those who say the word Shaman , came from a people in Asia...

I'm coming into this discussion rather late and I do apologize if you have already answered this question. But I'm confused (which is a common state for me unfortunately). Shamanism isn't just related to one particular culture. How do runes encompass all the shamanism in the world when they are usually indigenous to a particular culture? For example, how can a shaman in Africa know about runes?

[skilly-nilly]

I'm coming into this discussion rather late and I do apologize if you have already answered this question. But I'm confused (which is a common state for me unfortunately). Shamanism isn't just related to one particular culture. How do runes encompass all the shamanism in the world when they are usually indigenous to a particular culture? For example, how can a shaman in Africa know about runes?

While I cannot in the slightest way speak for what Shawn might mean by what he says, I have an opinion about this question.

The word 'shaman' is a borrow-word from a tribe (or a related group of tribes) in Siberia. They used the word to define the important person who negotiated with Spirit and reported hir findings back to the tribe to assist them.

Here's an etymology:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman

Shaman |?shäm?n; ?sh?-| noun (pl. -mans) originally referred to the traditional healers of Turkic-Mongol areas such as Northern Asia (Siberia) and Mongolia, a "shaman" being the Turkic-Tungus word for such a practitioner and literally meaning "he (or she) who knows." The words in Turkic languages which refer to shamans are kam, and sometimes baks?.
The Tungusic word šamán is from Chinese sha men (Chinese: ?????), "Buddhist monk," borrowed from Pali ?amana, ultimately from Sanskrit ?ramana "ascetic," from ?ramati "he fatigues" (see shramana). The word passed through Russian and German before it was adopted into English.

Here's a little more about the tribe who used the word 'shaman':
http://www.nupi.no/cgi-win/Russland/etnisk_b.exe?Evenk


There are people (including myself) who think that 'shaman' isn't a proper general term. Most cultures have the role of someone who communicates with Spirit and reports back, and I think that if someone is discussing a particular culture they should use that culture's term. I don't think 'shaman' works as a general term for 2 reasons:
On the one hand, it's specific as I have referenced.

On the other hand, I believe that the job that is often described as 'shaman' is necessarily tribal--I believe that the job is about Speaking to Gods about the tribe you are a part of and then translating back to your tribe the Messages you receive.

I think that it's a job that cannot exist as a one-man-band; I believe Shamans are intermediaries for their tribe and cannot 'be' without the tribe.

So, on the gripping hand, I think that what people are mostly referencing when they use the word 'shaman' is actually 'mystic'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism
They are not contacting the Gods on behalf of their tribe, they are doing it for themselves. They, all by themselves and not in a tribal framework, are communicating.
I use this term, but I also like the term 'God-Speaker' as a useful universal term without any reference to Siberia. So if a mystic is communicating with God/s/dess/desses all on their own get-go or if a specially selected person is negotiating with their Gods for the education and betterment of their tribe and I don't know what their tribe specifically calls them 'God-Speaker' works nicely.

Of course, there are other people who think that no matter where the word 'shaman' actually originated , it now has a universal meaning and they can freely call Medicine people, Mambos, fili, etc 'shamans' and have it be meaningful. Opinions vary.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I am choosing , as is my right , to adress the two people I find respectful , IMO...

Philosophia : If you note the designs on different tribal dwellings , fabrics , face
and body painting , ritual items , etc. , you shall see the runes...

If one looks at the words of African languages...and I can only do so much , as one person , exploring the multi - dimensional aspects of this language code , so
linguistics is not my focus , ( as in applying the code only to linguistics worldwide )
as I apply it within many of the sciences , culture , spirituality , etc.

And my main focus is reconstituting , and utilizing the Olde Wietchcrreayafth , by whatever name , from whatever culture , or language...

However...Two of our symbols , in the Olde Tongue , and each symbol has layers ,
upon layers of meaning , thus two symbols together , have exponential levels of meaning...

Are pronounced " Nniow - G'yar" ...which , has always , from what I have been told by an African elder , been considered a holy word...

Another , would be "Aed - Dea"...and though spelled differently today , Simply
Puzzled , I am relatively sure , would confirm spellings do change through time ,
and geographic location...

As I have stated before , I have spent up to 16 hrs a day , over twelve years with this language code , not just a language...I do encourage anyone who does have interest , to look at my postings in Qabalah Sub Forum , as I am not going to repost all my
information on each thread I am on...That is actually why I was told to post there...
To assist people who had questions , about what I was saying , about a " Pre-Babel"
language...The One Tongue...

I do hope that helps , Philosophia...You may PM me , if you have further questions
as I feel you would respect me enough to have proper discourse...

Simply Puzzled :

I do understand now , thank you...It was confusing to me , the way it was first phrased...It seemed like you wanted me to do two different things...

Now , as I have a life , believe it or not , other than this site , and I am someone who loves play , as much as hard work , mental or otherwise , and I do choose to eat ,
sleep , hitch to the store for supplies , etc. , and as that is a long paragraph , and
each letter of the language is spelled out , to translate that into English...

I shall be PM ing it to you in pieces over the next week , Simply Puzzled...

As I have said , this underlies all language , but in different ways for each...

" Babel Tongue" ...Remember the story...?

So how the language applies to one , is not the same to another...

See my examples above...

And whether the language is written , or spoken , depending on cultural linguistics , it can be different , in the symbols used...

To give the best understanding , I possibly can , think of the story of Thoth...
or whatever else you wish to call that being , but three of our symbols , two the
same , make the word Thoth , and mean , " Inception of Speech , or Wisdom" ,
among many , many , other layers of meaning , including Bard , or Shaman...

This is a Mercurial Hypertext Language , almost infinitely flexible...As it would have
to be , if it is what I have stated it is...The language of the associative cortices of the
brain...not a cultural language at it's root , but the language which gives rise to all
other creation , as we percieve it through our brain , and lens of existence...

So , Simply Puzzled , I shall PM you with the first part within 24 hrs...This is the way I choose to proceed , as I have grown weary of those who choose ways of dealing with me , I truly feel is rude , and distasteful...IMO...

I wish everyone the best , in their paths...As we all come from the same root source...

Blackwolf...Out...

[Shanti]

Could you explain at what point in human evolution this language of the associative cortices of the
brain manifested?

Oh and you keep ignoring me I think.
What is your tradition or what region is it from?
Thank you. :)

[Shanti]

This is starting to sound like Edenics to me. Is that what this whole language thing is that you are trying to convey?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Thank you Shanti , for the respectful questions...

1. No , that is not my field...however , I would be most interested to have a
person both from the field of physical brain , or neural studies , and a person
from the field of quantum consciousness study it...

But it would have to be done in person , for the initial presentation...

2. As I am not familiar with the term Edenics , I would hesitate to say yes...

However , if you mean , as I believe you do , the naming of things , I would
answer , Yes...

And yet...I am also positing , after twelve years of continual work , this is the
digital and analog code underlying the creation of the universe , as we know it...

But that would fit with what has been said by some before...

The Universe is a manifestation of consciousness...

[Shanti]

Thank you Shanti , for the respectful questions...

1. No , that is not my field...however , I would be most interested to have a
person both from the field of physical brain , or neural studies , and a person
from the field of quantum consciousness study it...

But it would have to be done in person , for the initial presentation...

2. As I am not familiar with the term Edenics , I would hesitate to say yes...

However , if you mean , as I believe you do , the naming of things , I would
answer , Yes...

And yet...I am also positing , after twelve years of continual work , this is the
digital and analog code underlying the creation of the universe , as we know it...

But that would fit with what has been said by some before...

The Universe is a manifestation of consciousness...
Please, correct me if I am wrong.
But, is this concept based on the belief that there is a single universal consciousness?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

The way I might phrase it , would be a beginning point , wich fractalled into exponential expressions...

The beginning of the code , nowhere near it's totallity , is 30 to the 77 th power ,
bits of information , before permutation...

[Shanti]

The way I might phrase it , would be a beginning point , wich fractalled into exponential expressions...

The beginning of the code , nowhere near it's totallity , is 30 to the 77 th power ,
bits of information , before permutation...
I am sorry but I honestly dont understand your reply.
Could you convey in simpler layman terms please?

[Shanti]

Is this beginning point a consciousness that one can connect too?
A universal consciousness?

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Shanti...I am a couple of other threads also , right now...but I shall answer when I can...

1. No , that is the simplest way I know how to put that...It is a mathematical expression ...Exponential...Take 30 x 30...77 times...
Permutation...ABCDE...ACEBD...BADCE...Each variant would have
layers of meaning different , due to arrangement series...

2. Two answers...Yes....And you already are it...yet , there is
conscious realization of the code

[Shanti]

Shanti...I am a couple of other threads also , right now...but I shall answer when I can...

1. No , that is the simplest way I know how to put that...It is a mathematical expression ...Exponential...Take 30 x 30...77 times...
Permutation...ABCDE...ACEBD...BADCE...Each variant would have
layers of meaning different , due to arrangement series...

2. Two answers...Yes....And you already are it...yet , there is
conscious realization of the code

I too am very busy, not only in a couple of threads but also cleaning my house and tending my children.

Ok, back to this.
I get lost immediately when mathematical stuff comes about.
I am not mathematics at all!!
My brain just doesn't compute, really.
For home school my kids dad does 99% of the mathematical areas.
I know if its something mathematical, there is factual proof upon to base a theory.

As for the universal consciousness, thats beliefs and my beliefs are way different so that truth wouldn't be my truth. I cant tap into something that doesn't exist for me. :) To me that would be the same as trying to pray to a god when I am an atheist. :lol:

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Understood Shanti...

The only loving and respectful answer I can give to that , is :

That perception also , is a variant of the code...not believing in
a Universal Code...As is God , and a athiest....LoL...

[Shanti]

Understood Shanti...

The only loving and respectful answer I can give to that , is :

That perception also , is a variant of the code...not believing in
a Universal Code...As is God , and a athiest....LoL...

My perception isn't any variant of the code, thank you.
Yours may be and thats all good. :)
You can always speak for yourself, but not for me.
Your truth is yours and correct for you.
My truth is mine and correct for me.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Shanti...I do understand you...and respecting your opinion...

By your own statement ...I may speak for myself , and my perception...

Speaking for myself , and my perception of the totality of the larger reality , through the lens of the code , as I know it , every perception , of every being , human , atom , whatever , is the code...Blessings , and this is my perception...

[Shanti]

Shanti...I do understand you...and respecting your opinion...

By your own statement ...I may speak for myself , and my perception...

Speaking for myself , and my perception of the totality of the larger reality , through the lens of the code , as I know it , every perception , of every being , human , atom , whatever , is the code...Blessings , and this is my perception...
Lets confuse things a bit because I am so glad I have my perception because I honestly can say that you are correct and I am too.
In my perception we are not all from the same thread on the same fabric. :)
So there is no right or wrong, true or false.
Only right or wrong , true or false for the self. :)

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Honestly , I do not see that as confusing...

I think we have one of our first major agreements...:cheers:


Blessings , and though I can not always do it , I hope the font worked better for you...

[Shanti]

Honestly , I do not see that as confusing...

I think we have one of our first major agreements...:cheers:


Blessings , and though I can not always do it , I hope the font worked better for you...
Hey cool!!! :cheers:


Oh and yes thank you, the font is most helpful.
Thats very kind of you. :)

[Kaylara]

* thread closed per authors request. *