Temple of Shamanic Witchcraft

[RainInanna]

Any comments on this book?

I brought it home the other day but had two others so it is waiting to be read.

[Windygo]

I own it, because it looked great in theory. However, I found myself a little impatient for the method he uses, also that I never had much time to do the assignments- the first things involved the outdoors, and we were having some bad weather at the time (on top of freezing temperatures). I could get through it, but probably not in the year-and-a-day that he prescribes. That doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, I guess.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I have not read that one by Christopher...

His writings are relatively good , for those young on the path...I do not , nor would not fault him...


However...Windygo...


I understand the dilemma...and choice...but there was an Ancient reason , for a specific time of a year , and a day , daily magical ritual...


It connected you to the deep levels of Telluric , and Stellar Currents...


Miss one day , and the circuit was broken...I require my students to start over , if they miss one day of excercises...no slack , no excuse...

It does not work , otherwise...not the way it is supposed to...most modern pagans , and witches , have no knowledge , or understanding , of the Olde Ways...


I mean no slight , or insult here...information only...:)

[Vigdisdotter]

Any comments on this book?

I brought it home the other day but had two others so it is waiting to be read.

I haven't gotten very far in it, but it seems okay. Whether or not it's more then that remains to be seen :)

[Windygo]

I absolutely understand, Shawn. Thus is the dilemma- I sadly do not have the time or resources to follow the book as it is intended. There does seem to be a bit of leniency, however, he offers no specific deadlines, dates, or schedules. One is merely expected to be finished by day 366, and while I suppose that can work, I am one who requires strict scheduling.

[Juniper138]

I enjoyed the book, and found it to be very straight forward and an easy read. Mind you, I am the sort of person who devours anthropology books in a couple of days. The exercises were excellent, and laid out in an order that made good sense for a beginner to a shamanic practice. I would call my self more intermediate, so there was not a lot of new information for me, but there were some clever and new ideas. I did most of the exercises, some were simply new ways of doing things I had done before, but trying different ways helps you find the just right way for yourself.
Often I will read a book through once, and then go back through doing the exercises, with a better understand as to why I need to do them from reading the book.
Even if you cannot do all the exercises right away, it is best to try. Consider it a show of good faith to your gods, guides, ancestors etc. Plus, you can only gain so much from just reading, you have to DO it to fully gain an understanding of something. Shamanism is not an philosophical path, it is a practical one, a path of doing.
Witches do not melt in the rain, either. *grin*

[David19]

I've read some of that book in the shops, so I haven't read it all, some seems to be good, but there also seems to be a lot of New Age stuff in there, and he seems to psychologize (no idea if that's a word?) a lot of shamanic concepts (like the part about confronting the Jungian Shadow, etc).

[SpiritMan]

After seeing it numerous times in the bookstores, I had also wondered if this book was worth the purchase...

Question: As I understand it, it is third or fourth in the author's series of witchcraft books. Does one need to have read and applied the exercises from the previous books to make use of this one? Or could a novice pick up this volume alone and make full use of it without the others?

[Juniper138]

I picked up the book without reading the others. The first two are more beginner to intermediate witchcraft and paganism. So, as long as you already know your cardinal directions, how to cast a circle, and all that Paganism 101 stuff pretty well, you will have no problem jumping into this book.
It IS slightly new age-y, but not overly so. The main points I liked about this book is
A) It is not a Wicca 101 book, it assumes you are beyond that
B) It is one of a few book that successfully combines witchcraft, paganism and shamanism, without leaning to heavily one one tradition or another.
D) There is not alot of bias in this book, towards certain traditions, political views etc
E) The research is pretty good, so are the exercises and writing style.

It was worth the money to me, the first and second read through, I still use it for reference on occasion, because it is well laid out.

It is not hard-core or highly intellectual, so people who dislike plain english books may find it a tad low brow.

[Autumn-Forest]

I read the whole thing, its rather good.
I liked it a lot, I like that he has assignments and excercises. I try to do them all, in some shape or form. If I couldn't go outside, I'd take a mediative journey, so it all worked out fine. I love all of his books because they take you through each lesson very carefully. He's my favorite author because he also uses his personal experiences.

be well,
Autumn

[Anubis RainHawk]

I've been working through it and I find it intelligent, sincere, and straightforward. It may not have every shamanic concept, but I think it's a great guide for Witches wishing to incorperating Shamanic practices into their life.

[Simply Puzzled]

I could get through it, but probably not in the year-and-a-day that he prescribes. That doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, I guess.

What is so damn magical about the year and a day anyway? I mean, if you are teaching a system that relies heavily on the solar cycle, it's important that your training cover (obviously) a solar cycle. But I have yet to find a shamanic tradition in which the solar cycle is given more than a passing nod. People teach "year and a day" courses now on everything from demonology to languages. I swear authors stretch 3 months worth of material or compact 18 months worth of material in the "year and a day" just to make it sound cool. That doesn't even mention the fact the term makes absolutely no sense in modern language since a year generally refers from, say, January 1st to January 1st, where used to it went from January 1st to December 31st, needing an extra day to get to where we automatically end up.

Sorry. I'm done ranting now. I've just felt that one coming on for a while.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

I am aware Mr. Penzak referred to 366 days ( at least as far as finishing things )...

When I speak of it...put together with what I mentioned below , from the tradition I am from...Telluric , and Stellar Currents...
and that is our knowledge , and teaching ;

I speak of a Lunar year of 28 x 13 days...plus one to complete the cycle...

It deals with subtle human body energy currents , combined with subtle effects in the geomantic field of earth...and subtle stellar influences , also known in alkhemi...

[ShadowStalker]

The thing to keep in mind about this series (The Shamanic Temple is book 3 in the series) is that it is a 101-type book based upon Mr. Penczak's personal experiences and beliefs, and what he has come to hold as his own divine truth and path.

I found it to be an interesting and worthwhile read, and although I didn't necessarily agree with everything in the book, it definitely gave me some food for thought. :)

[ShadowStalker]

After seeing it numerous times in the bookstores, I had also wondered if this book was worth the purchase...

Question: As I understand it, it is third or fourth in the author's series of witchcraft books. Does one need to have read and applied the exercises from the previous books to make use of this one? Or could a novice pick up this volume alone and make full use of it without the others?

No, I would say that it is not necessary to read the others first.

I did not read them in order (I actually read this one first :lol:) and had no problems understanding the ideas or concepts that he put forth.

[moonbride]

I just purchased this book and it arrived earlier in the week. I'm still waiting on the companion CD's that go along with it. I have all of CP's other books and CD's and love them. I'm looking forward to reading this one very much.

[ShadowStalker]

I just purchased this book and it arrived earlier in the week. I'm still waiting on the companion CD's that go along with it. I have all of CP's other books and CD's and love them. I'm looking forward to reading this one very much.

Please let us know what you think of the CD's as well... I saw these the other day and was tempted to pick them up. :)

[moonbride]

Please let us know what you think of the CD's as well... I saw these the other day and was tempted to pick them up. :)

Well if they are as good as the companion CD's to his other books, then they will be wonderful. He has such a soothing voice and I've always thought the meditations and exercises in them to be very good. I don't think you could go wrong there...

[Lajmar]

What is so damn magical about the year and a day anyway? I mean, if you are teaching a system that relies heavily on the solar cycle, it's important that your training cover (obviously) a solar cycle. But I have yet to find a shamanic tradition in which the solar cycle is given more than a passing nod. People teach "year and a day" courses now on everything from demonology to languages. I swear authors stretch 3 months worth of material or compact 18 months worth of material in the "year and a day" just to make it sound cool. That doesn't even mention the fact the term makes absolutely no sense in modern language since a year generally refers from, say, January 1st to January 1st, where used to it went from January 1st to December 31st, needing an extra day to get to where we automatically end up.
You know I do have to agree and I find it especially funny when I think about the fact that many argue that its "tradition" yet Gardner and Sanders both often initiated people within days of meeting them:-p

[lonewhitewolf]

I was wondering if I should buy that book. I saw it in Barnes and Noble. As soon as I can I plan to get it. Thanks for the opinions on it.

[SoulFire]

You know I do have to agree and I find it especially funny when I think about the fact that many argue that its "tradition" yet Gardner and Sanders both often initiated people within days of meeting them:-p

Good point! ;) In Vicia, my line of Feri Witchcraft, we tend to initiate first, then train. Of course, we stringently screen prospective students. (I myself have only initiated one person.) We do not proselytize. To us, quality is more important than quantity. I realize we are not the mainstream, as many teachers require that the student train for up to two years (with no guarantee of initiation). But this is not how Victor operated. He would interview the student, and initiate them in short order if he found them to be suitable. Or he would give them assignments to test their mettle.

I still think going through a full cycle, whether it's a solar cycle of 12 months, or a lunar cycle of 13 months, is probably a good idea, for it allows the student time to assimilate what you're teaching, as I do feel that it takes more than a couple months to learn Witchcraft. Also, it gives the student and teacher more opportunity to get to know each other better before committing further. But, at least in our tradition, the "year and a day" is not a hard-and-fast rule (also, we are not Wiccan). It may be shorter or longer depending on the individual.

IMHO, the "year and a day" seems to have become a meme, which many Wiccan repeat with very little thought given to it. There are a number of memes in Wicca: the Threefold Law, the Rede, etc. I don't mean to denigrate anyone here who believes in these things, as I also know there are many educated Wiccan who do understand and walk their talk.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

Cheers,

[Lajmar]

I still think going through a full cycle, whether it's a solar cycle of 12 months, or a lunar cycle of 13 months, is probably a good idea, for it allows the student time to assimilate what you're teaching, as I do feel that it takes more than a couple months to learn Witchcraft. Also, it gives the student and teacher more opportunity to get to know each other better before committing further. But, at least in our tradition, the "year and a day" is not a hard-and-fast rule (also, we are not Wiccan). It may be shorter or longer depending on the individual.

IMHO, the "year and a day" seems to have become a meme, which many Wiccan repeat with very little thought given to it. There are a number of memes in Wicca: the Threefold Law, the Rede, etc. I don't mean to denigrate anyone here who believes in these things, as I also know there are many educated Wiccan who do understand and walk their talk.

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

Cheers,
Very well put:-D

[*D*R*A*K*E*]

interested in it, but haven't got it yet,.personally i love chris penzach's books, he always has great exersises,facts,and he stays on target, without getting off key,losing his readers,or making it dry, he makes his practioner books very interesting cover to cover, and i can't wait to pick up this title, as well as 'reiki'

i used to have 'the inner temple of witchcraft' when i was half way through it, i let my mom stay over for easter,she stayed a few days, and i left for a couple,.her psycotic christian ass burned my $1,000 pagan library,.

what someone posted earlier, i think it would be a good idea to pick up the book again, and start over. but do you think it would be a bad idea, to pick up, and start both books at the same time?

blessed be,
~drake
:ringaroun:ringaroun:ringaroun:ringaroun:ringaroun

[Ulfurskona]

interested in it, but haven't got it yet,.personally i love chris penzach's books, he always has great exersises,facts,and he stays on target, without getting off key,losing his readers,or making it dry, he makes his practioner books very interesting cover to cover, and i can't wait to pick up this title, as well as 'reiki'

i used to have 'the inner temple of witchcraft' when i was half way through it, i let my mom stay over for easter,she stayed a few days, and i left for a couple,.her psycotic christian ass burned my $1,000 pagan library,.

what someone posted earlier, i think it would be a good idea to pick up the book again, and start over. but do you think it would be a bad idea, to pick up, and start both books at the same time?

blessed be,
~drake
:ringaroun:ringaroun:ringaroun:ringaroun:ringaroun
Unless you have lots of spare time to devote to it, you will likely find yourself burnt out energetically before you got through too much of either book. My suggestion would be to do one at a time.

[Simply Puzzled]

i used to have 'the inner temple of witchcraft' when i was half way through it, i let my mom stay over for easter,she stayed a few days, and i left for a couple,.her psycotic christian ass burned my $1,000 pagan library,.


I'm really sorry to hear that. There are few things more destructive than someone convinced of their own absolute rightness.

[Juniper138]

You know you can have a person charged or sued for destruction of property for burning your books.

[Earthwalker]

Christopher's stuff is pretty good but one has to understand what the orientation of the books are first. They aren't going to present anything in intensive detail. Each of his chapters in the first three books could easily be a book in itself. The books serve as a good introduction to core topics of the Craft and can make an excellent outline of self-study. You can, on your own time, take each chapter and expand it out beyond the information Christopher offers by seeking other sources of information on the topics. That will give you a pretty strong foundation if you have the discipline to keep yourself going with it. That's the catch, I suppose.

Someone commented earlier than this particular book of his was 101. I'm not sure I quite agree with that. While the material is 'basic,' in that it covers a lot without going into too much detail on any one section, much of what he covers isn't something that can just be done right off the bat without knowing some other things first. The second book is like that as well in some respects, but moreso in the third. I think you'd be hard pressed, for example, to have a sucessful Journey if you didn't know a thing about meditation beforehand.

[Juniper138]

How basic something is depends upon perception and personal experience. Something I considered intermediate 5 years ago seems pretty darn basic to me today, for example. I've found my definition of "paganism 101" is getting broader and broader as the years go by.

[RainInanna]

SP - you mentioned in another thread this isn't your favourite book. Why?

[Simply Puzzled]

SP - you mentioned in another thread this isn't your favourite book. Why?

I formed this opinion a while ago, and I don't feel like I could do it justice right now. When I get the chance, I'll swing by a Border's, skim through it enough to reform a good opinion, and I'll let you know. Give me a few days.

[RainInanna]

any luck?

[Simply Puzzled]

any luck?

Completely slipped my mind I needed to do this. I'll try and get it done tonight. Thanks for the reminder.

[Simply Puzzled]

Okay. Here's why I don't like this book.

1. He doesn't use footnotes, in-text citations, endnotes, or anything other way of letting us know where he is getting his information from. I'm sure I'll get people dismissing this as a rather academic point or something, but to me, it is a huge deal. Without citations, he can make literally any claim he wants, and we have no way of putting it into context, assessing it's validity, or where he got it from. For example, when he states that homosexuality is common among shamans, I think "according to whom?" Is it a pre-WWII source, a gender studies book, or something from Oxford Press?

2. Now, my bigger complaint. I feel the book is incredibly Eurocentic. As much as the cafeteria-approach to world religions is criticized, there is a lot of merit into learning other approaches and ways of doing things and deciding what works for you. When he's discussing the other realms, you could be learning about tribes which have 9 levels of heaven. About the Olmec underworld. About the spirit world of the Yoruba. Instead, it's about what you would get picking up any Norse paganism book. Oh great, here we go with the Norse World Tree...again. In his effort to make it easily relate to modern paganism, he ultimately stripped it of any worth it might have had, and instead, it reads like just another intro to paganism book.

[David19]

Okay. Here's why I don't like this book.

1. He doesn't use footnotes, in-text citations, endnotes, or anything other way of letting us know where he is getting his information from. I'm sure I'll get people dismissing this as a rather academic point or something, but to me, it is a huge deal. Without citations, he can make literally any claim he wants, and we have no way of putting it into context, assessing it's validity, or where he got it from. For example, when he states that homosexuality is common among shamans, I think "according to whom?" Is it a pre-WWII source, a gender studies book, or something from Oxford Press?

2. Now, my bigger complaint. I feel the book is incredibly Eurocentic. As much as the cafeteria-approach to world religions is criticized, there is a lot of merit into learning other approaches and ways of doing things and deciding what works for you. When he's discussing the other realms, you could be learning about tribes which have 9 levels of heaven. About the Olmec underworld. About the spirit world of the Yoruba. Instead, it's about what you would get picking up any Norse paganism book. Oh great, here we go with the Norse World Tree...again. In his effort to make it easily relate to modern paganism, he ultimately stripped it of any worth it might have had, and instead, it reads like just another intro to paganism book.

I remember seeing this book in the shops, I haven't brought it, but I have flicked through it, and I didn't really like it, for some of those reasons, but mainly, he seemed to really Wiccanize shamanism, I mean, he may have just called the book "Shamanic Wicca". Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, or had a problem with it, but I didn't like the way, he said, you'd descend into the Underworld, and meet the Dark Goddess (or Dark Mother, or something like that), I was like, who, which Goddess?, is he talking about Ereshkigal?, Persephone, etc, and why is it a Goddess, there are male Gods of the Underworld (Hades rules the Hellenic Underworld, doesn't he?), Nergal in Sumerian/Mesopotamian belief (although, to be fair, Ereshkigal rules Kur (the Sumerian Underworld), Nergal is her husband, and ruler, by marriage).

Also, I'm not sure, if I think you can be a shaman, just by reading his book, and completing his lessons.

Anyway, those are my problems with it, I'm not a shaman, though, so maybe others don't have the same problems with it.

[Simply Puzzled]

I remember seeing this book in the shops, I haven't brought it, but I have flicked through it, and I didn't really like it, for some of those reasons, but mainly, he seemed to really Wiccanize shamanism, I mean, he may have just called the book "Shamanic Wicca". Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, or had a problem with it, but I didn't like the way, he said...

I think your impressions are pretty similar to mine so I don't think you're the only one!

[David19]

I think your impressions are pretty similar to mine so I don't think you're the only one!

That's good to know, it's not that I have anything against Wicca, and if someone wants to be a Shamanic Wiccan, then fine, go ahead, but I just think someone should write a book, and attempt to say it's shamanism, when really it's, probably, just Wicca mixed with shamanistic ideas.

And, another personal thing that annoyed me, was the way, it seemed to imply all Gods were one God, or all Goddesses were one God, or that all the different realms were completely the same, like if you descended to Kur (the Sumerian underworld), it would be exactly the "same" as Hades, Hel, etc, when, IMO, they're not (that's just my opinion, and personal beliefs, though, maybe others with more experience will know different).

[RainInanna]

I mean, he may have just called the book "Shamanic Wicca".

He does actually explain at length that he remains a Witch/Wiccan and draws Shamanism into that system. Yes, that was entirely intentional.

I may be outside the norm, not sure - when Witchcraft is in the title I assume they're probably using it to mean spirituality and practices that are close to, if not fully, Wiccan. Penczak really does mean to share Shamanic Witchcraft in this book rather than Shamanism by itself.

[RainInanna]

Okay. Here's why I don't like this book.

Thanks for your effort and input, most appreciated :)

[Simply Puzzled]

Thanks for your effort and input, most appreciated :)

No problem. Expressing opinions is something I'm rarely shy about.