Cords

[Vigdisdotter]

My friend and I were discussing the use of cords in various traditions, and she cringed visibly ^_^;; Not that I blame her, since we both now many people personally who treat cords, degrees, etc. as status symbols and go around collecting them any way they can.

Not fun.

The thing is, I don't get this attitude. Now let me explain something. I'm a martial artist, I practise Ninjutsu. We have our own belt ranking that isn't comparable to Karate or Judo or anything else. In fact it wouldn't mean squat to anyone outside of the art. But to those INSIDE it denotes what level of skill a person has worked to attain thus far, so a student can reliably walk up to a higher belt rank and ask to be shown a technique found in that belt rank.

And that make perfect sense to me. So needless to say this is how I view things like degrees and cords within pagan settings.

I would also like to point out that human psychology benefits from tangible results for accomplishments, like cords, or birthday parties, or getting a driver's licence. So I can see the practical use of cords from that angle within a group structure. I can also see why a lot of people wrinkle their noses, since as I said, they don't mean anything to outsiders, or they shouldn't.

So I want to ask, how do other people feel about the incorporation of cords (and degrees) into group work? What are the benefits in your mind? What are the down falls? And does one outweigh the other?

[Ivy Artemisia]

To me, a degree is only worth what it means in the group in which you are in. I know solitaries who say they are 3* eclectic witches. But that doesn't tell me anything, except that they think its important to tell people they are 3*

Because a 3* in one group might be a 2* in another, and a 5* in still another group.

In the group that I'm in, cords/degrees don't mean one person is better than another. It doesn't mean that one person has more say than another in the running of the coven . It's a recognition of the work they have done, and it means that they probably have different responsibilities than others. For example, a 2* will run ritual, and stand in for the 3* or HPS. They might have more responsibilities during circle, and out of circle than a 1*. A 2* can also sponsor a dedicant (its kinda like a buddy system- the way we do things)

I don't feel that its really a status symbol, except that its a tangible goal to work towards.

[RavensEye]

So I want to ask, how do other people feel about the incorporation of cords (and degrees) into group work? What are the benefits in your mind? What are the down falls? And does one outweigh the other?
I worked in a group that did not use cords. We did not see it necessary, we tried sharing the responsibilities of the group equally. As for downfalls the only thing I could see is someone getting an over inflated ego and thinking that they are so much more important then others in the group.. but other then that I cannot see any other down falls.

[Fairy_Princess]

I worked in a group that did not use cords. We did not see it necessary, we tried sharing the responsibilities of the group equally. As for downfalls the only thing I could see is someone getting an over inflated ego and thinking that they are so much more important then others in the group.. but other then that I cannot see any other down falls.

Bolded for Truth!

[daphenrose]

You know fairy you're more audacious than I, but our minds often are on the same page! hee hee
My thoughts exactly! Cords are nothing more than status symbols imho.
daphnerose

[Shanti]

I worked in a group that did not use cords. We did not see it necessary, we tried sharing the responsibilities of the group equally. As for downfalls the only thing I could see is someone getting an over inflated ego and thinking that they are so much more important then others in the group.. but other then that I cannot see any other down falls.
I agree too!


Except in some things like TKD and other martial arts. Hard to compete for real if you dont have official qualifications. But thats sports, not spiritual stuff. :) Apples and cucumbers. :)

[Philosophia]

Because a 3* in one group might be a 2* in another, and a 5* in still another group.

I worked in a group that did not use cords. We did not see it necessary, we tried sharing the responsibilities of the group equally. As for downfalls the only thing I could see is someone getting an over inflated ego and thinking that they are so much more important then others in the group.. but other then that I cannot see any other down falls.

_hanclapp I agree with both of these.

[Ivy Artemisia]

As for downfalls the only thing I could see is someone getting an over inflated ego and thinking that they are so much more important then others in the group.

In my experience, it doesn't take a cord, nor a degree for this to happen. :) But powertrippyness/arrogance is my biggest pet peeve.

[Theres]

i've had more than my fill of hierarchies over the years, from both perspectives (top and bottom).

in fact i'm working on a ritual to dismantle one right now, and the sooner the better!

[Simply Puzzled]

My friend and I were discussing the use of cords in various traditions, and she cringed visibly ^_^;; Not that I blame her, since we both now many people personally who treat cords, degrees, etc. as status symbols and go around collecting them any way they can.

Not fun.


The Roman Empire was full of mystery schools. We know something about a few of the top ones, but there are a lot of mystery schools we don't even know about, except that we know we are missing a lot on the list. When you joined a mystery school, you were given a token to carry around to identify yourself to others in the school, along with certain signs and such. We know a little bit more about these because we have Roman police records (Romans were obsessed with record keeping) of the contents of peoples pockets, which included these things.

Anyway, the point is that it was very fashionable to "collect" these tokens so that you could walk around with a pocket full of these things. The practice you were referring is at least 2,000 years old, and I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. Not that it is desirable, simply that it is human nature. The best guard to it lies with the initiators themselves. Initiators who require strict standards and lots of study and commitment on the part of their initiates prevent this from happening within their tradition. I, too, practice martial arts, and I used to attend a karate dojo. Their requirements for belts are about 5x as intense as the average TKD studio. Often people when people asked me about my belts, they would brag that they were such as such a rank after so little years, yet all they did in my mind was confirm the easiness of obtaining rank within their school.

[Vigdisdotter]

I agree too!


Except in some things like TKD and other martial arts. Hard to compete for real if you dont have official qualifications. But thats sports, not spiritual stuff. :) Apples and cucumbers. :)

What makes you say that? It's quite obvious if someone can ground properly, cast a circle, construct and lead a ritual or effectively teacher/run a group. And those doing the teaching would have the qualifications in mind (which bring me back to my original point that the cords/degrees don't mean much of anything outside of the "group).

Knowledge will out, not matter whether we are talking about martial arts or spirituality, which in my experiance isn't all that far appart to begin with :)

[greenmoon]

I do aiki-jujustu and we don't have a visible ranking system per se, we all just wear white belts but everyone knows the capabilities of others so skill levels are pretty clear and there is definitely status too, even though the more experienced people are pretty humble it's hard not to respect the power that they have. I've found the same things tend to apply in esoteric groups that I've worked with although when levels of skill are more hidden there tends to be a bit of huffle while the pecking order is established. Generally I find that once people have their skill level acknowledged they tend to chill out.

[Vigdisdotter]

Generally I find that once people have their skill level acknowledged they tend to chill out.

I would agree for the most part. However, in my experiance the worst ego cases aren't teeh ones with knowledge, but rather are those pretending to knowledge they really don't have.

[greenmoon]

I would agree for the most part. However, in my experiance the worst ego cases aren't teeh ones with knowledge, but rather are those pretending to knowledge they really don't have.

I can relate to what you're saying. When I used to do Aikido I would frequently meet people at seminars who resolutely wanted to tell me how to do things their way even though they didn't seem to know what they were doing. They'd resist with all their might, then tell me to do it their way - then they'd stop resisting and fall down with the slightest nudge and then say something to the effect of: there you see? Now it works! The martial art that I'm doing now seems to keep it a lot more honest - everyone full out resists, so if it doesn't work it doesn't work, and if it does then I figure I'm doing something right.