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LadyCelt
July 30th, 2007, 12:26 AM
I was wondering peoples' opinions on this. When Jesus said you should only follow the one true god. It is something I have struggled with. For me, it represents what is good. What is loving, caring, compassionate. Be it the Goddess or other facets of God as different gods. How do you feel or respond?

MariThorn
July 30th, 2007, 07:39 AM
I'm not quite awake yet, but off the top of my head . . .

Jesus says that God is Love, God is Truth . . . the word God is not a name, it is actually just a pronoun with a verb I Am . . . ergo, I think that when Jesus says there is but one true God, that he is saying that there is only one Love and Truth. Now, if you believe that Jesus is God (trinity thing going on), then he was saying that he, himself is Truth and Love. As for gods and goddesses . . . I feel, after much thought and so forth, that for myself personally, and those in my coven who accept my path, that they are but different ways that man and woman over the centuries have tried to compartmentalize something so great that our minds cannot fathom it.

Somewhere else on this site I have seen, I think it is the Celtic deities thread, where a few others acknowledge that the "names" of gods and goddesses are just titles. So, when I work with God in circle, I use the two titles that I relate to It the best. The Morrighan and The Nuada . . . normally it is just one of the titles that I use, however sometimes I call It with a different title, depending on the reason for the circle. However, I have no doubt in my mind that It is the same It I worship in mass.

I hope that wasn't to confusing :) Its to early to philosophize :P

imapepper
July 30th, 2007, 01:08 PM
I agree with Mari. I think the 'one true God' is love, spirit, and all that is harmonious.

LostSheep
July 30th, 2007, 03:28 PM
I'm not quite awake yet, but off the top of my head . . .

Jesus says that God is Love, God is Truth . . . the word God is not a name, it is actually just a pronoun with a verb I Am . . . ergo, I think that when Jesus says there is but one true God, that he is saying that there is only one Love and Truth. Now, if you believe that Jesus is God (trinity thing going on), then he was saying that he, himself is Truth and Love. As for gods and goddesses . . . I feel, after much thought and so forth, that for myself personally, and those in my coven who accept my path, that they are but different ways that man and woman over the centuries have tried to compartmentalize something so great that our minds cannot fathom it.

Somewhere else on this site I have seen, I think it is the Celtic deities thread, where a few others acknowledge that the "names" of gods and goddesses are just titles. So, when I work with God in circle, I use the two titles that I relate to It the best. The Morrighan and The Nuada . . . normally it is just one of the titles that I use, however sometimes I call It with a different title, depending on the reason for the circle. However, I have no doubt in my mind that It is the same It I worship in mass.

I hope that wasn't to confusing :) Its to early to philosophize :P
I like that. I think the way I see it is that "God" is, well, everything that there is. Not just the material world, but yes, concepts like love and truth and such like. Do I think there is One True God? Well, yes, I think, but not in the sense that God is a rather petulant father figure who throws a trantrum if people don't worship him enough; i think that God, well, just, is. God is Everything, and Everything is God, if you like. But because that can be a difficult thing to get your head around (particularly if you're a sheep), then it can be easier to think of by thinking of God - the Everything - as individual, personal gods, spirits, with individual identities and personalities; ways in which the spirit, energy, whatever, manifests itself to us.

So, um, there, i think.
:)

latin_baller
July 30th, 2007, 04:41 PM
People have different perceptions of the one true god- some call him Amun, Yahweh, Krishna, Allah, among other names. But the Main question I ask is; Is this the same god?

Lunacie
July 30th, 2007, 05:18 PM
I've never been sure myself whether there is one Divine Energy that we all percieve in different ways, or whether there are literally hundreds of Gods and Goddesses.

I've always thought the bible and the words of Jehovah and Jesus were meant specifically for those who followed one particular religion, and that Jesus respected those who followed other religions as long as they were sincere and honored their own gods the way they should be honored.

latin_baller
July 30th, 2007, 05:41 PM
Jesus respected those who followed other religions as long as they were sincere and honored their own gods the way they should be honored.

You know I was reading in a book that for the Jews that do believe in an afterlife, they believe that if someone of a different religion lives a moral life they wont go to hell.

I dont know much more about it because the book just had it layed out in a table, comparing religions.

happynomad
July 30th, 2007, 05:41 PM
Well, the question about whether all gods are one god or not, Joseph Campbell expressed it as God is and is a word to describe a thing that cannot be described in words, that it must be experienced through your spiritual growth and can only be understood through your own personal experience of the divine force. It can't be explained, only experienced. The underlying concepts in all religions are the same, they are simply explained in different ways through religious practice within your cultural context.

-Nomad

David19
July 30th, 2007, 07:29 PM
I've never been sure myself whether there is one Divine Energy that we all percieve in different ways, or whether there are literally hundreds of Gods and Goddesses.

I've always thought the bible and the words of Jehovah and Jesus were meant specifically for those who followed one particular religion, and that Jesus respected those who followed other religions as long as they were sincere and honored their own gods the way they should be honored.

I think I agree with what Lunacie said, Jesus and YHWH's words were probably only meant for the people who followed them, not the whole world.

Maybe Jesus meant you should follow the one true god that is for you, like everyone should follow the god(s) who are right for them (not sure if that made any sense).

As some probably already know, I'm a "hard" polytheist and believe in many, many different and unique deities who are individuals, so I don't think we all experience the "same" being.

Anyway, Lunacie said it better than I ever could.

Lunacie
July 30th, 2007, 11:14 PM
I think I agree with what Lunacie said, Jesus and YHWH's words were probably only meant for the people who followed them, not the whole world.

Maybe Jesus meant you should follow the one true god that is for you, like everyone should follow the god(s) who are right for them (not sure if that made any sense).

As some probably already know, I'm a "hard" polytheist and believe in many, many different and unique deities who are individuals, so I don't think we all experience the "same" being.

Anyway, Lunacie said it better than I ever could.

Nah, you said it just fine. :cheers:

Kahlil the Heretic
July 31st, 2007, 01:34 AM
I feel that many people confuse the god of Abraham with God...I would suggest you pick up a book called "Conversations with God", it might give you some good insight.

LadyCelt
July 31st, 2007, 02:07 AM
thanks for the replies

LostSheep
July 31st, 2007, 03:04 AM
I've never been sure myself whether there is one Divine Energy that we all percieve in different ways, or whether there are literally hundreds of Gods and Goddesses.

I've always thought the bible and the words of Jehovah and Jesus were meant specifically for those who followed one particular religion, and that Jesus respected those who followed other religions as long as they were sincere and honored their own gods the way they should be honored.

This is quite an interesting site I happened across, a Christian one but it has some quite interesting questions. http://explorefaith.org/questions.html#faith
There's some quite interesting questions under 'Explore the Church' near the bottom of the page. This one, for instance... How can Christians accept Christianity as the way to God, and still give credence to the truth and reality of other religions?

David19
July 31st, 2007, 09:56 AM
This is quite an interesting site I happened across, a Christian one but it has some quite interesting questions. http://explorefaith.org/questions.html#faith
There's some quite interesting questions under 'Explore the Church' near the bottom of the page. This one, for instance... How can Christians accept Christianity as the way to God, and still give credence to the truth and reality of other religions?

Thanks for the interesting link.

David19
July 31st, 2007, 09:56 AM
Nah, you said it just fine. :cheers:

Thanks :).

Lunacie
July 31st, 2007, 11:07 AM
This is quite an interesting site I happened across, a Christian one but it has some quite interesting questions. http://explorefaith.org/questions.html#faith
There's some quite interesting questions under 'Explore the Church' near the bottom of the page. This one, for instance... How can Christians accept Christianity as the way to God, and still give credence to the truth and reality of other religions?

Written by Dr. Marcus Borg... that name sounds sorta familiar. Like I've read something else he wrote that seemed very logical to me, rather than fanatical or fundamentalist. Good linkage there.

LostSheep
July 31st, 2007, 11:14 AM
Yes, i found it quite refreshing.

According to the Wiki,
Borg advocates entering into relationship with God as more important than belief about God. He has a panentheist understanding of God, which sees God as both indwelling in everything and transcendent. He teaches that a historical-metaphorical approach to the Bible is more meaningful for today's world than is the historical-grammatical approach or that of biblical literalism. and
The views stipulated by Borg in his books, and the 'accessible' nature of his explanations, are a refreshing change for those becoming so dissatisfied with the growing conservative evangelical element within the church.

Lahmi
August 3rd, 2007, 11:19 PM
I think I agree with what Lunacie said, Jesus and YHWH's words were probably only meant for the people who followed them, not the whole world.

Maybe Jesus meant you should follow the one true god that is for you, like everyone should follow the god(s) who are right for them (not sure if that made any sense).



The problem with that David, is Jesus said otherwise.
In John 14:6 He says:
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

and in Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

and John 3:17
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world
through him might be saved.

Just something to think about as you walk your path.

mark

Lahmi
August 3rd, 2007, 11:24 PM
Now to the OP

I was wondering peoples' opinions on this. When Jesus said you should only follow the one true god. It is something I have struggled with. For me, it represents what is good. What is loving, caring, compassionate. Be it the Goddess or other facets of God as different gods. How do you feel or respond?


That is how I used to feel about it as well, ma'am. Then my search ended up leading
me to just follow Jesus. It is sort of put in context in the Gospel of John chapter 4
Where Jesus is talking to a Samaritan:

22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the
Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Shawn Blackwolf
August 3rd, 2007, 11:42 PM
The problem with that David, is Jesus said otherwise.
In John 14:6 He says:
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

and in Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

and John 3:17
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world
through him might be saved.

Just something to think about as you walk your path.

mark



Well...Let's see here...

1. Christ...The Christ...which my tradition knows as a title ,
for anyone who goes to the above world , below world . and
comes back...is only an intercessionary...one who can speak
for you...

IF you feel you can't cross on your own...No thanks...I'll get
there , across that Rainbow Bridge , on my own two feet...and
no god will stand in my way of getting where I want to go...

2. Any god who demands , commands , or condemns , is no god of mine...let alone , any body I would want to hang out with , for an eternity...

3. I don't need saving...and I beyaptized myself...long ago...

In the name of my Holy Guardian Angel...Blessed Be your Choice...

aluokaloo
August 4th, 2007, 03:20 AM
This is quite an interesting site I happened across, a Christian one but it has some quite interesting questions. http://explorefaith.org/questions.html#faith
There's some quite interesting questions under 'Explore the Church' near the bottom of the page. This one, for instance... How can Christians accept Christianity as the way to God, and still give credence to the truth and reality of other religions?

wow! This guy sounds really awesome! Thank you lost sheep

Baobabtree
August 4th, 2007, 02:25 PM
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. I can understand how you can say the other verses you qouted are in disagreement with what Lostsheep believes, but I'm going to go ahead and say that this particular verse is rather subjective to personal interpretation. For all we know when Yeshua said this, he ment he is the very flow of the universe (basically a Tao of sorts), as well as the flow of heaven itself. That being said, I definitely think your interpretation of this verse, is jsut as valid as my own, or Lostsheep's.

Shawn Blackwolf
August 4th, 2007, 02:46 PM
Baobabtree :

I am not sure , but believe you were directing that post to me ?

If so...it regarded the post by Lahmi...not Lost Sheep....However ,

forgive me if I am wrong...

I can understand your point...there are things known by my tradition ,
that go back long before the time Yehoshua ( the Obri name , before the
Greek change ) was said to have lived ...

That is what I base my statement on...And yes...Opinions and most
certainly interpretation...I respect...thank you for yours...

Baobabtree
August 4th, 2007, 11:48 PM
My post was directed towards Lahmi actually, but don't worry about it.

Pneumatikos
August 1st, 2008, 06:37 PM
I was wondering peoples' opinions on this. When Jesus said you should only follow the one true god. It is something I have struggled with. For me, it represents what is good. What is loving, caring, compassionate. Be it the Goddess or other facets of God as different gods. How do you feel or respond?

God is a person. Not flesh and blood..of course. But a single being with many characteristics

Genesis 1 calls God Elohim which is male/female plural
Then you have the facet of God the father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit

Cassandra2
April 26th, 2009, 03:42 PM
I was wondering peoples' opinions on this. When Jesus said you should only follow the one true god. It is something I have struggled with. For me, it represents what is good. What is loving, caring, compassionate. Be it the Goddess or other facets of God as different gods. How do you feel or respond?


Please be patient with me. I have always had trouble understanding people who want to invent God. That seems to me to be what a lot of people do nowadays.

I believe that God revealed himself. He revealed himself to Abraham, and Isaac and Jacob. I believe he spoke through the prophets. I believe he revealed himself in Jesus Christ. He revealed himself as ONE being. I just believe that. I have a lot of trouble inventing a God that suits me. Many things about the God of Abraham puzzle me. I accept him as reality. I can't for the life of me go out and pick out a religion like Cantaloupes. If God is reality then he is reality. I believe that this God Jehovah speaks. God comes to us with words. Abraham heard the voice of a God who called himself "I am"
I have asked Jehovah to reveal himself to me and he has. We believe in this God because of this revalation. I truly believe that the "gods" of pagan religions were spirits of some sort. I believe in their highest forms they are angels. Nevertheless I believe in one God who created all things. I believe this because of the testimony of the Patriarchs and the testimony of the Prophets.

Cunae
April 26th, 2009, 05:29 PM
We all have the freedom to choose whatever god we wish to serve. My God makes that very clear.

Clair de la Lune
April 26th, 2009, 05:47 PM
I believe in God. I believe in Jesus. I believe that he is my personal savior. I believe that I don't have all the answers and that probably nobody does who is human. I believe that if there is a heaven, that I have no better chance of getting there than someone who does not believe in Jesus, because it also depends on how we live our lives and how we treat others.

I am having a hard time dealing with this issue and having an even harder time typing it:

My Father believes that he can do whatever the heck he wants to on earth as long as nobody knows what kind of an abusive sexually deviant incestual voyeuristic animal-lusting pedofile he really is. He hides it well to "outsiders". He has absolutely no conscience and cares nothing about his victims, only himself and his wants and pleasure. He justifies his behavior because if he all of a sudden grows a conscience and actually repents after death to God, that all he ever did to anybody or anything will be forgiven and he will be in heaven with all the rest of us (victims and what-nots).

How do you reason with this person, or deal with this personally?? What is the argument against it when he doesn't care, and he will be forgiven anyway?

What about the crap everyone has had to deal with for years and years?? He has had licensed psychologists and minister counseling. NOTHING helps because he tunes them out or lies.

Rawna Moon
May 15th, 2009, 03:00 PM
LadyCelt: "When Jesus said you should only follow the one true god."

Guess what. Jesus never said anything like that. I just did a search of the four gospels on the phrase, "one true god" and the phrase is never found in them. Jesus never said "Follow the one true God." Jesus never even said, "One true God."

Oh well.

Rawna Moon
May 15th, 2009, 03:16 PM
For those of you struggling with how to follow Jesus and be a Witch, I strongly encourage you to try this exercise.

Instead of going on what others have told you Jesus wants from you, find out for yourself.

Get a journal. Get a Bible. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. As you read if you come across anything where Jesus is actually telling people what to do, write it down in the journal.

Don't draw conclusions from stories, miracles, actions of Jesus or anything else. Just write down what Jesus tells people to do.

After you've done that. Then go through each one and ask a simple question, "Did Jesus mean for a specific person or group of people to do this or for everybody?" If you conclude he meant it for a specific person or group drawn a line through it. Don't try to figure out what the message is for everybody, just draw a line through it. Example: Jesus said, "Go and get your husband and come back to this well." That's a specific thing, don't try to find a message about how we should bring our spouses to Jesus. Just draw a line through it.

Then take all the one left and combine them. For example we all know Jesus told people to repent many times. So take all of those and combine them into one command.

Once you got a combined list of Jesus' commands, go through each one and ask yourself, "What does this mean?" For example, what does repent mean? Write it out in your own words what you think it means. If you like, ask others what they think it means. An simple dictionary is helpful too. Also Bible dictionaries and commentaries might help. In the end, though write what YOU think Jesus meant.

Now you have your own personal direction from Jesus. Someone tells you something different, tell them they're wrong. Jesus never asked you to do that.

I'd love to hear what people come up with.

LacyRoze
May 15th, 2009, 03:21 PM
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou has sent.

muninnskiss
May 19th, 2009, 12:08 AM
When G-d created man s/he created them male and female in his/her image. G-d is both male and female, not one or the other. Jesus is male, the Holy Spirit has mostly female aspects. G-d can be worshipped as G-d or G-ddess. G-d manifests many different ways. I think some gods and goddesses are the result of people focusing on one aspect and missing the rest. Others are reflections or echoes of G-d. Others are what 1734 Witchcraft would call lapwings, leading us away from the Truth.

That's my view.

FFF
~Muninn's Kiss

bellamandu
May 19th, 2009, 12:26 AM
now keep in mind that i no longer consider myself christian, but i do feel like i am capable of answering this question, or at least give you my standpoint on it. i was a very devout christian for most of my life, went to the local bible college for 2 years and had the opportunity to become an ordained minister if i chose to do so..

but anyway...

from what i understood in my teachings (which was actually one of the reasons i was shunned and led away from christianity, but we wont go there lol) was that in some of the earliest english translations of the bible, god said that "thou shalt have no other gods before me"

and being in my very analytical nature, i saw this as god saying this...

i took this particular verse as god acknowledging that yes, there are other gods and goddesses. yes, they do exist. BUT he is to be your sort of one and only.. in a world where multiple gods or goddesses in a tradition (of that particular era) were common.

OR, in another interpretation...

that yes, he does acknowledge the fact that other gods and goddesses do exist, but he is to be your main god, on top of all others, with the ability to have smaller patron gods or goddesses. in a world where, among religions that worship one main god or goddess as well any many smaller gods.

and then, the "thou shalt have no false idols" comes into play as well.

my personal interpretation of this was god saying that you shouldn't let yourself be willingly led away from your path in a period of history where many mere mortal men (kings and such) had people see themselves as gods and worshiped as such, and taken advantage of in many cases. OR this could also come into play with the example above of god saying that he was to be your one and only god to be worshipped without any others.

anyway, i've always felt that you should go with what feels right for you. after all, its what lies in your heart that truly matters, not what someone else tells you.

if (your) god tells you in your heart that he/she is male/female, black/white, WHATEVER. thats what you go with. don't exhaust yourself both spiritually and physically to try and "figure" it out on a logical sense, or by reaching out to your local pastor or deacon for the "one true path". because in all honesty, they probably aren't going to tell you what you want to hear, or for that matter what your heart tells you.

Rawna Moon
May 21st, 2009, 11:10 PM
okay. I did a search on the four gospels of "one true God" and found it was not there.

Then LacyRoze quoted John 17:3 which included, "the only true God."

I was looking for "one true God" and *that* isn't in the text. But "only true God" *is*.

So the issue then is, what do we do with Jesus calling his Father the "only true God?"

Mea Culpa

swapmeetmomma
May 21st, 2009, 11:19 PM
Im a christian, but I believe that there are others gods, or well other versions of god? Anyway I totally respect anyone worshiping any god they choose/feel pulled to. Its different for everyone and I absolutely cannot be convinced that anyone who doesnt believe that the christian god is the only god is going to hell. Isnt the whole purpose here on earth is to love anyway? Love god/goddess, people, earth, life, animals, etc?

Shawn Blackwolf
May 21st, 2009, 11:41 PM
I applaud you for that , Swapmeetmomma...:thumbsup:

Now , given that...that is the path of devotion...in my tradition...

Yet , there is the path of knowledge...again , in my tradition...

And , leaning too far to one or the other , may be dangerous...

Love , without wisdom...or Wisdom without love...

The divine , put into Christian terms , might be seen , as one
who created all , from one , to know itself , yet loves the creation ,
and thus knows it...for that love , is the merging , which allows
knowing through heart , not just mind...

The many...and the one !


Isnt the whole purpose here on earth is to love anyway? Love god/goddess, people, earth, life, animals, etc?

coeur
May 21st, 2009, 11:58 PM
I just have to get it off my chest because it's been giving me a nasty rash the past couple of weeks/months/years: what exactly do we mean by 'true' and what is the inherent normative value of 'truth'? When you say, "I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth," everyone and their mothers knows that what is about to come out of your mouth is not necessarily exactly what happened. What is about to come out of your mouth is what you perceive happened to you. This is why lawyers spend so much time trying to prove witnesses are unreliable. If that person was telling the truth, and happened to have visual hallucinations all the time, he could be telling something other than what 'really happened' without telling something other than 'the truth.' This then means that several truths can occur at the same time. If you have five people at the scene of a crime and each person tells the truth, it could very well be that you will have five very different testimonies that are all the truth.

And what exactly is the inherent value of truth? Is truth always beneficial? To which, I would suggest no. Telling your small child who has just baked a lot of cookies for Santa that Santa does not exist is not beneficial or what many people would consider moral. Sometimes knowing 'what happened' does more harm than good.

But, why is knowing 'what happened' important? Well, legally, it keeps us from convicting the wrong person; it protects some people; and it gives some people closure. But what about outside the legal context? Why should I care about t/Truth when it does very little to get my bus here sooner or keep my mascara from running? And it seems to me that one answer to that question is 'reality.' It seems very important that people have a grasp on 'what really happened' because then they feel like they have a grasp on 'reality'--a reality that cannot be negated by differences in individual experience; in other words, community. Truth connects people; it eases loneliness; it can reach across cultural differences and influence people over there like it can influence people over here.

Supposedly.

Truth is something everyone can or should agree on. And, when we agree with each other, it feels good--like we're connecting, like we're communicating--and agreeing with each other makes us feel not so alone in a very modern and divisive era. Yet, then, the question is: is Truth the production of a human desire?

And, of course, you're kind of damned if you answer yes and damned if you answer no. If you say yes, then that's the end of Truth and all that community. If you answer no, then I will immediately say that you're just saying that because you're very attached to the benefits of Truth. And so, it seems, we can't really find the truth about Truth. But we know the effects of believing in Truth, which seems to be unity, acceptance, community, and agreement--which are all very strong themes in Christianity.