Ummm, does this seem wrong to anyone else?

[Kaylara]

I was searching for a specific pagan tradition, and every page save the first one I looked at was copied WORD FOR WORD from Silver Ravenwolfs' "To Ride a Silver Broomstick." and most of them do not credit her. Does anyone else see a problem with this?

Kaylara

[bluecat]

Originally posted by Kaylara
I was searching for a specific pagan tradition, and every page save the first one I looked at was copied WORD FOR WORD from Silver Ravenwolfs' "To Ride a Silver Broomstick." and most of them do not credit her. Does anyone else see a problem with this?

Kaylara

I am not surprised. I give credit or inquiry on my site for stuff that I find, but so many people simply copy outright without saying where they got it at all. With the proliferation of "Pagan" websites out there I find myself not visiting many of them because they are not much more than "clones" of each other.

Blue

[Kaylara]

I know Blue. I was really irriatated though, because I was looking for quality information, and all I got was the same over-simplified crap over and over again.
I propose that we here at Mysticwicks come up with working discriptions of the traditions, (or paths) that we follow. I have been writing stuff on traditions for my personal page, but don't want to describe the traditions that I am not very familiar with. Which is why I had Mairwen give me a description of her tradition (what she could tell me any ways.) What do you guys think? Lets get some more accurate information circulating. If you guys want, I can even post links to at least 10 different web pages that are exactly the same thing.
(I know that Witchvox is doing something on traditions, I have to check up on that section.)

Kaylara

[Mariposa De La Luna]

There are so many trads its not funny. Witchvox is doing 2 new ones a week and it doesn't look like they are running out. Maybe just a list of the traditions represented at this site. Though it looks like most of us are solitaries or seekers.

As for not giving credit where it is due, I think there should be some karmic backlash for that, its basically stealing. Did you email them? Nicely of course.

I don't visit Pagan web site because its the same stuff different address. Books are better IMHO but you have to look through and read them first, there is some questionable stuff out there with some people getting money hungry.

[Earth Walker]

Using things from the books of others without
giving proper credit is called plagiarism, and may
lead to a lawsuit for copyright infringement.



Only my cat understands me. :D

[Amora]

I just wanted to throw something in here that drove me crazy the other day. I was surfing some pagan websites and came across a few that I was amazed by. One inparticular was for love spells. They are charging in excess of $100 to "perform a love spell with or for you" over the internet. Apparently they send you a candle and a "homemade" spell for you to use at home and they also send energy your way... Come on.. That is highway robbery to charge that much money for that. Anyone with an intent strong enough can do the same for the cost of a candle and a piece of paper.

[Kaylara]

Not to mention the bad karma involved there. Personally I think that Love spells are a HUGE no-no! I have only done one in my life, and boy, did the Gods teach me a harsh lesson. After that, no more. I say that Love spells are bad news. And know that the people who are selling them and making them will get the full brunt of the karmic backlash, along with those people who buy them.

Kaylara

[LaDaya]

First off is was sad that they couldn't even rephrase for themselves or put down what they believed... Second it is illegal for them to take material without permission and without crediting the original source. I don't know what's worse... them stealing information or not have the brains to write their own beliefs....

[Mairwen]

I'd email SRW and turn the page in to someone. That's outright theft.

[SahuaDjet]

Em Hotep,
That sounds like a good idea! If we all get personal decriptions of our path I 'd love to add them to my site if I may...I to have been known to copy from two of my fav books, but thats what my site is (ideas of witchcraft from 2 points of view) and I say everywhere in my site where the info came :) but I see your point. It's hard to find things that aren't copied.

Sahu Djet

[Mairwen]

That's why there are copyright laws ~ anything used in contrary to those laws constitutes theft. That's why I have my pages clearly marked with copyright information. If I were a published author and saw my work blatantly posted on the internet (or was alerted to such), you better believe all hell would break loose.

[Myst]

Some of the websites out there really give Paganism, Wicca, and Witchcraft a bad name.

If I see one more website with a copy of the Rede, 13 goals of a witch, charge of the goddess, and half a dozen spells or rituals copied from books I might scream.

Add to that spinning pentacle graphics or starry backgrounds or midi's you can't turn off and it makes me want to start shooting from a belltower.

[Xander67]

This is a perfect example of what I was refering to in another thread with reguards to Amberlaine's well worded caution about books, (the bible thread in philosophy forum)

Books need to be looked at carefully before you buy them

here are some guidelines that I try to follow some are my own, and some are reccomendations by authors like Amber K

1. dont base your decision to buy the book on how pretty the cover is, (cover art does have a purpose however)
read the back, there is usually a summary and/or reviews.

2. does the book have a biblography..

a good and reponsible Writer will ALWAYS give credit where credit is due...this is not only the writers responsiblility but Plagerism is a crime ...and it is just common courtesy...

3. If there is no bibliography, then is the writer relateing from personal experience, or just "pouring the same wine into a new goblet" (passing along information) or is he or she just "preaching" or trying to feed an EGO or someother need for acceptance of noteriety.

4. WHO IS THE AUTHOR?.. is he or she a noted authority, has he/she written any other books, were they well recieved, what is the author's background...
certianly you would not let someone teach you how to cast a circle when he or she does not know anything about corespondence charts or the proper use of symbols.


some times you may want to take a look at the last one here
5. what does the author contribute to society, (community related etc)

I wonder if Silver Ravenwolf is aware of this book you were refering to Kay..did Leweylln publish this, (i wouldnt think they did as they published "to ride a silver broomstick")

I read Silver's Book and I have nothing book good words to say about it...

[amberlaine]

A brief note about copyright:

It is not enough to credit an author when posting an entire piece of theirs (an essay, or a chapter, etc). IF you intend to post more than what qualifies as fair use (which is about 3% of the total length of what you are quoting) then you must get written permission from the author in question to use that piece.

In other words, you can quote an excerpt from SRW, but if you post more than 3% of a complete work (be it an essay or a book) then you must get her permission to publish it. This goes for *anything* that is not in the public domain. It doesn't matter if you are selling the information or not. It is still copyright violation, and it is still illegal. When in doubt, get permission. IF you dont have permission, don't use it.

[Xander67]

:) I cant wait to Read your book Amber,

I always enjoy reading what you have to say...

[lucidfire]

I can see one's being upset over stealing word for word from a book, but just to take another side here, what does anybody think about copywriting a tradition, or a way or thinking?

just an idea

[amberlaine]

err you can't copyright a way of thinking.

[Xander67]

well, I dont think it is possible for anyone to be awarded rights to any tradition or way of thinking, but I think there is a big difference between "tradition" and "plagerism"

[amberlaine]

Originally posted by Xander67
:) I cant wait to Read your book Amber,

I always enjoy reading what you have to say...

oh goodness. thanks ::blush:: well, i hope you enjoy it. it was definitely a ride, and i expect will probably raise a few eyebrows. guess we'll just have to see!

[Wyrdsister]

Just thought I'd post the WitchVox Trads page link: http://www.witchvox.com/xtrads.html

:D

Wyrdsister
who thinks plagerism sucks the big one *grrr*

[Xander67]

coolness, thank you for shareing that Wyrdsis

[Myst]

They still haven't gotten back to me about my essay on green witchcraft. *wrinkles nose* they could at least tell me I stink

</rant>

[Xander67]

on that note... Myst,
question,
did you follow up and find out who had it, or if it was read? did they send you some type of acknowledgement?

[amberlaine]

They almost never do, which is why I stopped writing for them. Diotima or whatever her name is doesn't respond to emails, doens't tell you if your essay was received, if she'll be using it, anything. I think it's just a bad way to relate to your contributors.

[Xander67]

wonder if this has anything to do with the fact they now charge a fee to be on the listing, I have a lising on there and got the "subscribe or else" email from them....

perhaps the winds of change have blown and left everything a big mess at Witchvox headquarters?

Hmmmmm

[Myst]

mind you that page of trads hasn't been updated in months anyway

[Xander67]

:eek: mabey they all fell asleep:D

thats why they havent read your essay

[MammaStar]

i'm glad i read this post. I've been working on some articles that I was going to submit to Witchvox, but now, after reading Myst's and Amber's posts. I may not.

'course I could always save them for the MW mag. :D

[Adam Of Avalon]

Can anyone say plagiarism?

[amberlaine]

Originally posted by LdyStarlite
i'm glad i read this post. I've been working on some articles that I was going to submit to Witchvox, but now, after reading Myst's and Amber's posts. I may not.

'course I could always save them for the MW mag. :D

And if all else fails, don't forget that MM posts thoughtful essays written by non-AMber people too ;) Variety is the spice of life and all that.

[MammaStar]

Yes Ma'am!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :boing:

[Xander67]

uh, I gotta ask,
what is a "non Amber-Person"?:rolleyes:

[amberlaine]

Duh, everyone who's not me :p

[Xander67]

8O oh that makes sense :)

[Epona44]

As a professional writer I can tell you that material taken verbatim from another author without giving some kind of credit :bad: to the source is plagiarism.


When we must use information from experts in newspaper stories, or from websites, we have to say where we learned this, attributing the source.

If we are making a statement of general knowledge, something which may be published in a book but which is not the intellectual property of the author, say a common recipe for mint chocolate chip cookies, or the date of the Declaration of Independence, then we are probably free to use that.

Ideas can be the intellectual property of an author.

It gets very sticky when discussing traditions or history, however, when an author takes numerous facts, does research and creates a work of fiction or non-fiction, it's their intellectual property and they have a right to own it.

[Myst]

Originally posted by amberlaine


And if all else fails, don't forget that MM posts thoughtful essays written by non-AMber people too ;) Variety is the spice of life and all that.

Oh? What kinds of essays?

[Xander67]

he heh Myst :)

hmmm im still wondering If Silver knows about this book
or if Lewellyn does....

that would be interesting :)

[amberlaine]

Anything and everything about theology, traditions, philosophy, mythology, etc. Take a look around MM And see what other people have written (or even what i've written for that matter) if you need a better idea of the kind of stuff i like to post, but pretty much anything that has to do with the above topics that makes people *think* (and is reasonably well written) works for me.

[Xander67]

:eek: OH NO!:eek:
:( not Brain work stuff:)


the stuff on MM rocks, there are some really thought provoking threads....specially the....oh you guys will jsut have to surf on over and find out for yourselves :p :D