April 19th

[Rick]

APRIL 19TH, 1995

WE REMEMBER

Rick Runesinger

OKC, OK

[bluecat]

Originally posted by Rick
APRIL 19TH, 1995

WE REMEMBER

Rick Runesinger

OKC, OK

I found myself just sitting here and looking at this post for the longest time and recalling the images that we were being shown from Oklahoma City.

Blue

[Xois]

Yeah that was really weird...

I was just a few weeks back in the US after having lived in Germany for a year...it was really bizzare

I feel terrible for all those who lost loved ones...

I do not believe in the Death Penalty because I think it turns ordinary people into blood thristy animals... I know many believe it is justice, but to see 8 and 10 year old kids screaming for the death of another person and foaming at the mouth is sickening...

I think it hurts those left behind.

Xois

[BrightStar]

Hi,
Yep,that was bizarre.I had friends working across the street from the Murrah building that day.I remember feeling the blast in my car 10 miles away.Worrying about friends.I haven't been to the memorial yet,I don't know why.It still seems a bit surreal.Even after walking up to the building a week later,I couldn't quite believe it.The blast blew windows out all over downtown.My brother worked down there.His buddy at work took the pic of the fireman and the dead baby.Worst thing I ever saw,until May 3 1999 when a mile wide twister came right through the neighborhood.One thing about it,Okies are a tough lot.
It's also the anniversary of Waco.Tomorrow is Hitler's birthday.Nuts will be out in force this week.
And yes,I'm against the death penalty too.We're just going to give Timmy Mac his wish by making him a martyr.Televising the thing on closed circuit will be a fiasco.Somebody will steal the transmission and we'll all be able to see it one day.That was a lot of death to deal with in one day.Another killing will not stop the cycle of violence.
Of course the local media will get in a frenzy once more over the whole thing.Kind of makes me sick.
Let's all try to create
Peace and Love 2day
Rain BrightStar

[Earth Walker]

I don't believe in capital punishment. It is only revenge.
Stockwell Day and the Canadian Alliance are saying
that they want to be able to hang 8-10 year old
children for serious crimes. These are the wonderful
christians who say that they should be the government
in Canada.

[Amora]

I have to go against the grain here and say I believe in the death penalty. But I do believe it does not do justice in full. I feel that he will pay by karma in the hands of Highers Powers...I'd just assume get him there now.

[bluecat]

I have mixed feelings about the death penalty ... especially in this case:

-McVeigh wants to be a Martyr

-He had no remorse what-so-ever

-His remarks about the collateral casualties was beyond belief

-What I would like to do to this man is a total departure from what I normally feel ... it would go well beyond cruel and unusual (I am not proud of this, please understand that) and will never be spoken by me; suffice it to say that he would not be physically harmed, but would beg for death.

Blue ... who cannot get certain images out of his mind today.

[sherry]

I'd say I have mixed feelings as well . If they are sent to prison for life they still can communicatewith family and friends and in parts of the country have college and cable. Plenty of food and clean water, dental care and medical coveerage that our taxes help to support.

Then for most of the usa within an hours drive or less you can find children with poor living conditions, less than perfect teeth with inadequate healthcare and schools going to bed hungry!

To me this doesn't seem fair, they did nothing wrong and the parent or parents that are working get rejected for the little help they were seaking. And the government takes it one step farther if that parent of the 2 parent homes were to rob, rape, or kill someone and go to prison in come the welcome wagons and the world is theirs. then they get all of it and college paid for too. but there home life is shattered.

[gunner]

i can feel nothing about mcveigh's imminent death except a cold satisfaction, his remark about the deaths of children as "collateral damage" angers me deeply. i am not a stranger to death but i regret the men i've killed, they were not just "collateral damage" as mcveigh might think. what i did was combat, against men as well armed as i, what mcveigh did was murder and his life is proper forfeit. no "hero", no "martyr" just a cowardly murderer and the earth is well rid of him.

[Earth Walker]

Originally posted by sherry
I'd say I have mixed feelings as well . If they are sent to prison for life they still can communicatewith family and friends and in parts of the country have college and cable. Plenty of food and clean water, dental care and medical coveerage that our taxes help to support.

Then for most of the usa within an hours drive or less you can find children with poor living conditions, less than perfect teeth with inadequate healthcare and schools going to bed hungry!

To me this doesn't seem fair, they did nothing wrong and the parent or parents that are working get rejected for the little help they were seaking. And the government takes it one step farther if that parent of the 2 parent homes were to rob, rape, or kill someone and go to prison in come the welcome wagons and the world is theirs. then they get all of it and college paid for too. but there home life is shattered.

The problem is that in America & Canada they are not
prisons, they are Country Clubs, here in B.C., the
prison officials let an inmate play golf and ride his horse.
???? What's wrong with that picture?
It seems that felons are given a membership card to
ClubFed. :mad:
We need to reform our prison policies and model them
after European prisons. There, inmates work all day,
and receive plain food in sufficient quantities to keep
them alive, nothing more. No sitting around watching
TV, etc., all day.


Only my cat understands me. :D

[gunner]

well said mystique, you describe a marine corps brig back in my era, i was a brig chaser for 6 months and i saw very few that wanted a second visit to "graybar barracks"

[sherry]

Originally posted by Mystique


The problem is that in America & Canada they are not
prisons, they are Country Clubs, here in B.C., the
prison officials let an inmate play golf and ride his horse.
???? What's wrong with that picture?
It seems that felons are given a membership card to
ClubFed. :mad:
We need to reform our prison policies and model them
after European prisons. There, inmates work all day,
and receive plain food in sufficient quantities to keep
them alive, nothing more. No sitting around watching
TV, etc., all day.


Only my cat understands me. :D

I am glad I am not the only one who feels they have it easy. When I hear someone say they paid their debt to society it makes me laugh

I want to ask them if they brought someone back to life or did they refuse to yell loudly about the cable being off for a few hours!!

[Kaylara]

Well, my thoughts go out to those who are mourning still. I have a strange way of thinking of the death penalty... I think that the government doesn't any more right to kill someone than any person.
But I also think that to have these people living in luxury in prision while those of us honest people have to struggle and live paycheck to paycheck is bull.
I think that the kind of reform that we need in the prison system is varied and complex. (I watch the Justice Files all the time, it has helped my outlook in this area) I think that we need to try to rehabilitate those people who show that they really want to be. I think that we should release those people who are in jail for drugs as I personally feel that the war on drugs is a load of crap. I think that rapists should get life sentences, without possibility of parole. It pisses me off SO much that people in jail for drugs get more time in jail than rapists.

Kaylara

[Earth Walker]

Both incidences took place several years ago in
B.C., Canada.

1. A man was found guilty of murdering his wife, and
he was sentenced to 7 years in prison. They have a
one-day-off for each day served, plus time off for good
behavior, and zingo!, he was out on parole in 18 months. ??????? :mad:

2. A woman caught stealing food to feed her children,
(she had no other means) was found guilty of theft
and given 10 years! ????? DOUBLE :mad:


GO FIGURE!!!!!



Only my cat understands me. :D

[Xois]

in all fairness, prisons are NOT country clubs! Please be honest! They really aren't

Until people can be proven guilty BEYOND DOUBT, the death penalty runs the risk of destorying innocent people! That in itself should bar its use.

But this are just my opinions...I am left of liberal! :D

As for prisons, if the intent is to rehebiliate and not punish, than I totally agree with being able to get an education while behind bars, that really has an effect on (SP) recitivism rates. How can we expect that some one who wasn't respected can get out and become a productive member of society!

Remember, they are IN a cell, they are monitored 24/7, they have no privacy and nearly no rights...if any of you think that is really "country club", think back to what it was like living with your parents! LOL

Prisons should be a place of reform! Believe me, in some respect it is unfair thta I am saddled with the debt of my BA and I have done NOTHING wrong, and a person who has broken the law, can do their BA for nothing...but then I remember that whenever they go for a job, regardless of their degree, the little checkbox "felon" on the job application, many times, means it ends up in the trash!

I think we need to change the emphasis from "punishment" (and being confined is punishment, by the way) to "rehabilitation" since our justice system (USA, not sure what other places are like) has placed "time requirments" for crimes. In other words, not trying to mainstream them back into society is shooting ourselves in our own collective foot!

of course this may or may not apply to those who can't be released back into society...say the Hannibal lecter types...I don't have a solution for that yet... :D give me time and I'll think of something...

Just my 2cents...

[cydira]

My thoughts on capital punishment are slowly becoming crystalized. I do however believe that McVeigh's execution will be justice, in a hollow form. By televising it, he get's his wish to be a martyr.

Let him die silently and be forgotten. But of course, these are the words of a woman who is awaiting the execution of her uncle's murderer. That madman and McVeigh are frighteningly alike in their thoughts. Both are like rabid dogs that should be put down for the health of the world. Let them die a mean death and let them be forgotten.

Perhaps that should be the best method. If I seem bitter, it is because I am. I'll make no apologies about it. Calculated murder, be it of one person or genocide, is an unforgiveable crime. Death is too kind of a fate for those who choose to commit it.

[reanna]

Being from your end of Canada, I am backing ya on our butt-backwards legal system.(I refuse to call it the justice system, because there usually isn't!)
I have learned tremendous things about our laws in the last 7 months, and I can honestly say that many things need to be changed. Our prisons are Clubfed.
I recently spoke to someone who works in the prison system and found out a few things that I don't agree with. Did you know that BC(that is all I know for sure at this point) are allowed to vote? We have law abiding, landed immigrants who contribute positively to our communities and economy, that are not even given that right. (doesn't make sense to me)
On Easter Sunday: The had an Easter egg hunt. (couldn't figure that one out either.)
I sat in a courtroom several times between Nov-Jan. and watched many thousands of dollars go down the tubes. All to keep a prisoner locked behind bullet proof glass, so the community couldn't persecute him for a heinous crime. All of that money spent to sit in court for a total of 2-3 mins tops before it was held over for yet another court appearance date.
Most of what I have found is that our laws are based on crimes that were being committed somewhere way back in the 1900's and society as a whole has evolved past those crimes that were committed back then. It is sad.
It is illegal in the law books to spit on the sidewalk. (not saying that it's a bad law, just outdated and never enforced.) It is illegal to show up unannounced at a person's house and interrupt their love making. (I am not kidding) How many times has that happened?? Do we call the police?? I think not.

If it is one thing I have learned, the Police dept's hands are just as tied as the rest of us. They aren't given the right tools to work with, the laws just aren't there to prevent a lot of things from happening. The government needs to wake up and realize that times have really changed. A major crime 40 years ago was flashing someone. Today it is murder, rape, molestestation...the list goes on and on.

I will also back you on Stockwell Day. I had been happy with him at first, then I found out that he wanted to impale all of HIS religious beliefs to all Canadians. He quickly lost my favor.

I may get flamed for some of this,(and I hope not) but I have seen some really ugly things in the last little while.
I will admit to this being a sore spot with me, and it gets my goat to watch the system fly by the seat of it's pants. I am working with people in the hopes to make a change to some of these laws. I really hope that the world is a better place one day. Even if it is for my Great -Great Grandchildren.
JMHO


Reanna

[sherry]

I could not agree with you more about the butt-backwards system! well put!!

[Rick]

I can only say that I wished I believed in Hell, 'cuz I hope McVeigh burns there for a long time. His aren't the crazy eyes of Charlie Manson, they're the eyes of stone-cold, calculating sanity. I don't want my taxes supporting him even in minimal comfort for the rest of his life.

I am Asatru. I will get my chance to see McVeigh at Ragnarok (I can't help but believe he'll be in the ship steered by Loki). I can be patient.

Rick Runesinger

[Earth Walker]

I live in the poorest area in Canada, the downtown
eastside of Vancouver, and it is plain to see that the
police are frustrated because the judges treat the
criminals with kid gloves, and they are generally back
out on the street in less than 2 hours. So the police no
longer make an effort to get the armed drug dealers
off the streets, and with felons shooting at each other,
there is always innocent people being hit by their
bullets. I have been a thorn in the side of the provincial
government, pushing them to hold judges accountable
for the ludicrous sentences they give to career criminals,
and to change the laws that will keep dangerous and
incorrigible felons behind bars.
I don't believe in stockpiling people in prisons like the
Americans do, the prisons don't really rehabilitate, so
we need to develop programs to help those who make
a foolish mistake.
Sure, McVeigh is a low-life, but I don't think that making
his execution a public spectatcle is right, and by making
him a matyr this way will only encourage those who
taught him, and who think that violence/murder is right
because their bible/god says it is okay.
Enough, I could on, but nuff said.


Only my cat understands me. :D