Can a soul be stolen/taken?

[David19]

I was reading the thread about soul retrieval and I was wondering, can a soul be stolen or taken by some being. Some people seem to say yes, while others believe it can't be stolen and only belongs to you.

Since I don't have any experience in this, I can't say, I know Franz Bardon says sorcerers can sell their souls to demons (and other Powers) for various abilities or material success and after death, their soul is owned by the being, but what do you think, is it possible to either have your soul taken/stolen or for you to sell it?.

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Yes...I know a spell to do so...

Would I ?

No...for many reasons...nor will I ever reveal it...

Enough said...from this one...:hahugh:

[Theres]

in my opinion, no.
at least not by anyone/thing other than a god.

as far as fractured souls, soul pieces, etc, i have no idea what that even means and it is a concept impossible for me to wrap my mind around.
what i think it refers to is those who have 'issues' in life which are tearing their conscious souls apart, but this falls more into the area of of personal therapy and inner reflection than any supernatural or metaphysical realm. think about it... if ones' soul is bigger than physical life and death then how can it be destroyed by anything on on this plane?

again, this is just my opinion (it is, however, the correct one 8O ).

[Shawn Blackwolf]

Tally Up : One yes , One no , David...should get interesting...

[David19]

Thanks for both of your answers, they've given me some things to think about, going on from that, do you think the soul can be given away (or "sold"), like the examples if Franz Bardon's work (of sorcerers selling their souls in exchange for some type of ability/abilities or material success or the numerous examples of souls being sold in Christian folklore (selling your soul to the devil, etc).

[latin_baller]

I know Franz Bardon says sorcerers can sell their souls to demons (and other Powers) for various abilities or material success and after death.

What do you mean after death? What does Franz Bardon say?

I think it can be stolen because In the Book of the Dead(?) it says that Set lies in the underworld and if not careful, he will take it.

[David19]

What do you mean after death? What does Franz Bardon say?

I think it can be stolen because In the Book of the Dead(?) it says that Set lies in the underworld and if not careful, he will take it.

Oh sorry, I forgot to finish, basically, he said, sorcerers who've sold their souls to certain beings (demons or other Powers) will end up having to serve those beings once they have died.

[latin_baller]

Oh sorry, I forgot to finish, basically, he said, sorcerers who've sold their souls to certain beings (demons or other Powers) will end up having to serve those beings once they have died.

Oh, I read it wrong and thought you said they sold their souls so they could have special powers after they died:foopsies:

[imapepper]

You can't steal something that belongs to God. Just my opinion. I don't think any one person has that much power but the Creator.

You can have the most tormented soul around, but you still have one, and maybe people confuse that with not having a soul. It's not the same thing to me. I think to believe a person can continue living with a soul, you'd have to believe in zombies.

I mean hey I enjoyed "Shaun of the Dead" too but, yeah, I don't think so.

:hehehehe:

[Bettie]

Yes, I believe a soul can be taken or stolen....

[Peter_Parker]

Reminds me of the movie, Ghost rider....

I guess, yes. But i wouldn't like mine to be stolen/taken. :D

[Theres]

I think to believe a person can continue living with a soul, you'd have to believe in zombies.
that's "without".

[imapepper]

that's "without".

Oh um, that too.

*whistles and tip toes out of the thread*

Can I blame the typo on the fact that I was eating a bag of chips?

[Jadewynd~]

This reminds me of the movie Serpent and the Rainbow. I personally do not have experience with this but, here is some info on Wikipedia on the history of Zombies originating in the Afro-Caribbean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Caribbean) spiritual belief system of Vodoun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodoun).

"According to the tenets of Voodoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo), a dead person can be revived by a bokor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokor) or Voodoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo) sorcerer. Zombies remain under the control of the bokor since they have no will of their own. "Zombi" is also another name of the Voodoo snake god Damballah Wedo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damballah), of Niger-Congo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger-Congo) origin; it is akin to the Kongo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_language) word nzambi, which means "god." There also exists within the voudon tradition the zombi astral which is a human soul that is captured by a bokor and used to enhance the bokor's power."


This is just one side to the domination of a soul and body.


You can read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie


Hope it sheds more light to your question.

[imapepper]

This reminds me of the movie Serpent and the Rainbow. I personally do not have experience with this but, here is some info on Wikipedia on the history of Zombies originating in the Afro-Caribbean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Caribbean) spiritual belief system of Vodoun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodoun).

"According to the tenets of Voodoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo), a dead person can be revived by a bokor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokor) or Voodoo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo) sorcerer. Zombies remain under the control of the bokor since they have no will of their own. "Zombi" is also another name of the Voodoo snake god Damballah Wedo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damballah), of Niger-Congo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger-Congo) origin; it is akin to the Kongo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kongo_language) word nzambi, which means "god." There also exists within the voudon tradition the zombi astral which is a human soul that is captured by a bokor and used to enhance the bokor's power."


This is just one side to the domination of a soul and body.


You can read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zombie


Hope it sheds more light to your question.

I have this movie! It really is an interesting subject and why I'll probably never visit Haiti. :lol:

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I think the soul is broken down into various levels or parts. Their is the spiritual Soul that is composed of the pure essence of spirit. I belive to the Christanity concept this is the "Soul". In this facet I do not believe anyone can seal or take this. I think this is the final result of the release of the Kundalini powers.

I find thier is a mental facet of the soul. My own belief is this is the part that is subject to fracture or breakage. It is the combination of the physical manifestaiton of spirit and the basin into which the memories and beliefs and inner child is located. It is doorway to both the Spiritual Soul energy and the Physical Soul of the body.

From a Kundalini perspective I believe this is the combination of the energy of the chakra's before the final rush to the golden light.

I think their is a physicla body soul that is the gates that hold and control the openings to the upper energies. I see it sortof like a flood gate system that opens and closes to the more hidden gates. Sort of like a dam keeper in that it allows the rise and fall of the enerey that makes up the connection through out the whole soul energy.

In some ways I think it almost makes the trinity in regards to the Father, Son, Holy Ghost or the triple facets of the Goddess and Gods.

Just my opinon on how a soul can fracture and parts be lost.

With regards to Zombies I once read that it is not the soul that the Bokor takes but the will and power of the person. The Bokor administers a drug that places the taker in a near trance like state that closely resembles death but the person is actually a sleepwalker. The mental capabilites of the subject are reduced to thier lowest level and the mind becomes very receptive to control and obeying commands. Frequently the death certificate was signed by a doctor that worked with the Bokor.

A state that is proven to exist in many sleep walkers. Many sleepwakers have been found to be very receptive to following orders on the most powerful voice or thing they hear.

In a sleep state people have been known to kill, destroy, attack without reason. In test they have been found to follow commands they heard on TV's or instrucitons that have been repeated into their ears. In a number of instances they followed those commands until a new set of instructions were received.

Ironically, the image of the Zombie (not the flesh crawing type) was the result of a silent era German film titled "The Cabinet of Dr Caligary" in it the Dr uses a Sleepwalker to kill. The killer is features with very pale skin, deep sunken eyes with black shadows. Literly the image of the walking corpse.

[greenmoon]

I believe it can be done and I believe it can be taken back also.

[Jadewynd~]

I have this movie! It really is an interesting subject and why I'll probably never visit Haiti. :lol:

I would love to visit Haiti. After that movie it does make me think twice. :hairraise

---------------------------------------------------
Interesting thread! Then there is Santeria which during some rituals involve soul possesion but, not by an individual over another but, rather by an entity over a person. That entity can transfer from individual to another individual if you are in a trance state. I think there is more information here from classes given in the past re: Santeria.

There is so many forms of soul possesion and some remain still a mystery as to how it is actually performed. Due to many mystics not wanting to reveal too much of this world.

[Iris]

Well, if you have an object you can make into a horcrux... :lol:

Just being a wiseass. Interesting topic :)

As previously stated, I don't believe when zombies are made that the soul is actually 'taken'. Isn't it more like the person being reduced to a trance-like state in which their will and determination is diminished? I believe a neurotoxin is introduced to the bloodstream, followed by something else...and the person ends up in a state near-death, and compliant to instructions, but not *actually* dead and still technically in possession of their 'soul'...

Which brings me to another question. Can you 'come back' from being a zombie? :ghostie:

[Garm]

Well, if you have an object you can make into a horcrux... :lol:

Just being a wiseass. Interesting topic :)

As previously stated, I don't believe when zombies are made that the soul is actually 'taken'. Isn't it more like the person being reduced to a trance-like state in which their will and determination is diminished? I believe a neurotoxin is introduced to the bloodstream, followed by something else...and the person ends up in a state near-death, and compliant to instructions, but not *actually* dead and still technically in possession of their 'soul'...

Which brings me to another question. Can you 'come back' from being a zombie? :ghostie:

Tetrodotoxin, depending on the dosage, produces a nice buzz, paralysis, death and a comatose state that is almost impossible to distinguish from clinical death. But recovery can be complete in about three days or so.

Which, in the tropics, can be enough time to be buried and then disinterred.

Well, what are you going to do when you're officially dead?

Nobody wants to know you, you're completely sundered from the social bonds that held up your identity.

In practice zombiefication is carried out by secret societies rather than individual sorcerers as a means of sanction against incorrigible malfeants, vigilantism basically.

The victims are held in thrall by more mundane factors, often to be sold off as cheap farm help.

[David19]

Well, if you have an object you can make into a horcrux... :lol:

Just being a wiseass. Interesting topic :)

As previously stated, I don't believe when zombies are made that the soul is actually 'taken'. Isn't it more like the person being reduced to a trance-like state in which their will and determination is diminished? I believe a neurotoxin is introduced to the bloodstream, followed by something else...and the person ends up in a state near-death, and compliant to instructions, but not *actually* dead and still technically in possession of their 'soul'...

Which brings me to another question. Can you 'come back' from being a zombie? :ghostie:

I've heard that in Vodou, the Zombie isn't actually a physical thing, but a spirit that is enslaved to do a Bokor's or whoevers bidding, I'm not sure if it's true or not, or if people believe it can be done.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

I don't know about the astral zombie but I know the physical one is a realility. Their are actual court cases where people have identifed the zombie and even named the person who captured thier body.

[David19]

I don't know about the astral zombie but I know the physical one is a realility. Their are actual court cases where people have identifed the zombie and even named the person who captured thier body.

True, but I think the physical zombie is more due to being drugged than anything to do with magic (I could be wrong, as I don't know too much about Vodou, and for all I know, there could be people with the power to reanimate the dead).

[Rachel]

I don't think anyone can take or affect your soul negatively unless you allow them to. Emotional strength, magic, a solid spirituality-- whatever you use can protect you from anyone who wants to to do you harm, I think.

[ModernKnight]

I don't believe in the soul.

[Xentor]

I don't believe in the soul.

That's completely irrelevant, isn't it? Some people obviously do believe in it, that's the premiss of the thread.

The truck driver also doesn't wonder whether you believe in him right before he swerves to avoid running you over...

[Xentor]

You can't steal something that belongs to God. Just my opinion. I don't think any one person has that much power but the Creator.

What if my soul doesn't belong to any god? What if belongs to me, only?

[ModernKnight]

That's completely irrelevant, isn't it? Some people obviously do believe in it, that's the premiss of the thread.

The truck driver also doesn't wonder whether you believe in him right before he swerves to avoid running you over...

The thread asks our opinion about whether or not it is possible to steal/take/give up a soul. My opinion is that it is not possible, because I don't believe in such a thing. My opinion is just as relevant to the discussion as anyone else's.

[imapepper]

What if my soul doesn't belong to any god? What if belongs to me, only?

If you're not God or a god, you wouldn't know if it was yours or not. Also, your soul does belong to you, but I don't think you own it. Kind of like a car, you put the down payment, pay your bill every month, but the car dealership and bank technically still own it even though you drive it.

Just my opinion though.

[Kodi]

i don't think you can sell, exhange, or anything else with your soul.
you can't give away something so powerful and that belongs to the goddess
and god.
and in my view who has such power to own more souls than their own other
then the goddess and god?:woah: