No Vodun or Santaria

[RenDjembe]

Just wondering why there is no seperate board for Vodun and Santaria?
I know some do not see them as "Pagan"

Also wondering if there is anyone here who does practice either.

[aranarose]

I don't practice Vodun but am studying it as it is linked with Hoodoo, which I do practice.

[lonewhitewolf]

Even tho I don't practice Vodun or Santaria, I am really interested in learning more about them.

[RenDjembe]

My Witchraft is Hoodoo but I have been studying Vodun African/Haitian & New Orleans.

Some of the best books (I feel are the best books on the subject are:
Voodoo in Haiti By Alfred Merrtraux
Secrets Of Voodoo By Milo Rigaud
The Hatian Voodoo Handbook By Kenaz Filan
Tell My Horse : Voodoo and Life in Haiti and Jamaica ) by Zora Neale Hurston
Even the New Orleans Voodoo Tarot book has a lot of info on Loas based on NO Voodoo.

Books on African Vodun are a bit more sparse but I am serching.
If you have not read these book check them out.

[Torulf]

I have been asking myself this question as well. How come there is no Voodoo board? Perhaps something of interest to many?
Let's get some positive feedback =)

[David19]

Thanks for the book recommendations, as I'm quite interested in learning more about the Vodun and Santeria.

There used to be a class on both on Mystic Wicks, but I think the teacher, Semi, left for some reason.

Here are the links:

Vodou (http://www.mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=202)

Santeria (http://www.mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=153).

[RenDjembe]

Thanks for the book recommendations, as I'm quite interested in learning more about the Vodun and Santeria.

There used to be a class on both on Mystic Wicks, but I think the teacher, Semi, left for some reason.

Here are the links:

Vodou (http://www.mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=202)

Santeria (http://www.mysticwicks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=153).

You are welcome :-) and thanks for the links! I noticed on the other threads that you asked about the Idiots Guide to Voodoo. It is a pretty good resource book to understand the basics. People underestimate the Idiots Guide books but many are helpful.

[aranarose]

I love the Idiot's guides and the For Dummies books. They are actually well-researched books that are great intros to the basics of any subject.

[plumedsnake]

Why are there no boards for these practices. I would guess that it is mainly because these are initiatory traditions and even if there were boards the details of the practices would not be placed on a public forum. Generally most information (I can vouch for orisha/santeria) that can be found in books or public forums are extremely superficial at best.
The CoT classes that you'll find on MysticWicks are as deep as you'll ever get on the internet. But at least they should suffice to whet your appetite and give you an overview.

[plumedsnake]

Even tho I don't practice Vodun or Santaria, I am really interested in learning more about them.

Ochareo should be teaching another class soon. I'm not quite sure when the class starts. Actually I have a disturbing feeling that he might not return to do it.

[RenDjembe]

There are some Wiccan traditions that are initiatory. I'm not saying we need a teaching thread maybe it's a way to get practitioners to join. There is no rules against chatting about how Vodun or Santaria inpacts your life.:hahugh:

[Philosophia]

Maybe you should create a thread in the Site room and see if there is any interest in it?

[MonSno_LeeDra]

There are some Wiccan traditions that are initiatory. I'm not saying we need a teaching thread maybe it's a way to get practitioners to join. There is no rules against chatting about how Vodun or Santaria inpacts your life


RenDjembe,

I hate to be objective but these are closed traditions for the most part. Every singal practioner of Voodun / HooDoo / Vodoo / Santeria I have ever met has insisted they are closed to those not initiated. Many are also closed by racial lines, crossing is possible but very difficult.

The fact thier are books available on these does not mean they are correct or entirely forwith. The one priest I new always laughed at the number of people willing to buy the crap, yet they really didn't know it was as they were never on the inside.

I spent two years around him and we spoke of many things classified as "Occult" at that time. We spent many hours talking about the affect / effect of those on the outside of the fishbowl looking in and actually thinking they new what was transpiring.

Yet even as forthright as he was and the fact I was already initiated into another tradition didn't change the obligations and commitments and dedicatons we made to our respective traditions. Yes we taught each other quit a bit but it was only face to face and mouth to mouth.


You mention Traditional Wicca even that is closed to a great deal. I also hate to mention but must is that Traditional Wicca is still initiatory and closed. That would be those Wiccan covens derived with a lineage from a Gardarnerian / ALexanderian or Valentian coven.

Think about it this way. I'll be glad to tell you what I had for dinner, what I drank and what my desert was. But don't ask how it was prepared for your not of my family and that is a secret or "Occult".

[plumedsnake]

There are some Wiccan traditions that are initiatory. I'm not saying we need a teaching thread maybe it's a way to get practitioners to join. There is no rules against chatting about how Vodun or Santaria inpacts your life.:hahugh:

I suppose there are no rules, but I find it difficult to see how there can actually be a functioning Santeria forum. I suppose people could share anecdotes about how the Orisha have helped them in their lives, but I don't see why you need a special forum for that. One could just discuss that in the Gods and Goddesses forum.

If you want a book on how Orisha traditions are practiced in Africa, then I strongly recommend a Book called Dinlogun by Chief Kola Abiola.
There is also a book called Ifa-a complete divination by Ayo Salami.
These religions are so heavily based on divination that the best way to study them is to study the divination process. Dinlogun is the divination process of the Orisha traditions while Ifa is the divination process of . . . Ifa tradition. Each divination system is full of the lore and procedures of the religion as a whole. They are based on a literature that is transmitted orally. This literature is the best way to learn about the religion. It contains the poetry, the songs, the rituals, the stories, the medicines, the philosophy etc.

Let's wait and see if Ochareo comes back. If he doesn't I am happy to discuss aspects of the religion with people that may be interested to the best of my ability. However I must stress that I am very much a student. Even though it is a life long never ending study for everyone, masters included.

Check these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifá
http://ilarioba.tripod.com/media/Fembabalawo.htm This one is interesting because it demonstrates why the tradition, after a period of opening up to researcher, closed up again. This woman was a fake and I know that cos she claimed that my godfather was one of the people who initiated her to Odu and when I asked him he denied and said that he' d specifically told her that it would be impossible.

http://www.us-organization.org/position/documents/EthicalInsightsfromOduIfa.pdf

http://www.palo.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=2

http://ayodele_falade.tripod.com/id26.html
http://ayodele_falade.tripod.com/id6.html

[plumedsnake]

RenDjembe,

I hate to be objective but these are closed traditions for the most part. Every singal practioner of Voodun / HooDoo / Vodoo / Santeria I have ever met has insisted they are closed to those not initiated. Many are also closed by racial lines, crossing is possible but very difficult.


I don't think so much by racial lines as by family lineage lines. A lot of priests wouldn't teach someone of the same race unless they were blood related. In fact, only their own children and even then they are selective about which child they'll pass it on to. Perhaps a very strong recommendation from a fellow priest they respect might get them to take you under their wing if you're not a blood relative.



The fact thier are books available on these does not mean they are correct or entirely forwith. The one priest I new always laughed at the number of people willing to buy the crap, yet they really didn't know it was as they were never on the inside.

In fact most books and websites are a whole load of rubbish if I am to be brutally frank.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

plumedsnake wrote:


I don't think so much by racial lines as by family lineage lines. A lot of priests wouldn't teach


I agree. Racial was the wrong word usage. My friend never really stressed so much on family so I assumed racial but given my own background I should have figured that out.

I guess that's what one gets when they write before they think about what their writting._wedgie_

[RenDjembe]

Hoodoo is not a tradition is is in fact American folk magic open to all.
Most Wiccan/Recon Books are rubbish. With the internet most secret traditions are no longer secret. Heck even the Free Masons are no longer "secret"

Milo Rigaud wrote Voodoo Secrets in the 1940's he had nothing to gain by writing it (He is Haitian born) You can Worship/honor a Loa without Being "initiated" The Whole Idea of Vodun be ing sectet had more to do with politics and laws of the land and Blacks needing to keep things secret for fear of French & Dutch settlers. Most practitioners would tell you that oh and History books.

Whole idea of secret societies had different agendas that what we think of them now.

And Yes I have been to Haiti and to Benin. As well as Senegal, Bostwana & South Africa. I have learned a little along the way. That is what sparked my interest to see how Hoodoo again a creation of European, Native American, Spanisha & African folk magic came about.

[MonSno_LeeDra]

Hoodoo is not a tradition is is in fact American folk magic open to all.


I realize its a folk magic. Its much the same as Penn Dutch Pow Wow magic, similar in character to Blue Ridge Folk Magic. Yet the main tennant of most of these are they are passed from generation to generation, mother to daughter, father to son. The broadness of the category makes it appear as if its open yet the limitness of individual teachings makes it traditional and restrictive. In some ways its similar to the traditional methods of passing the skills of water witching.


And Yes I have been to Haiti and to Benin. As well as Senegal, Bostwana & South Africa. I have learned a little along the way


I lived in Japan for 6 1/2 years and studied Shinto and Buddhist religions. Yet all that does not open up the religions inner workings and mystisim. I studied the cultural diversity of the Japanesse yet thier is still more I don't know than what I do.


Milo Rigaud wrote Voodoo Secrets in the 1940's he had nothing to gain by writing it


I'm a history major and one thing I do know is the books are full of persoanl perspective and deduced confirmation. That fact someone wrote a book does not make them completely reliable or error free. Adolf Hilter wrote a book too on what he intended to do to Europe, Margaret Murry wrote a book whose finding are now quit suspect.

To state a person had nothing to gain seems slanted to say at the least if they had nothing to gain then their was no need to write the book. Yet I also find frequently that these great ensieghts into a cultural perspective are filled with many assumptions when they are the intial release of a hidden cultural identy.

Unfortunately they also seem like Gardner's inspiration, unprovable to existance.

With regards to secret societies and how much is revealed it goes back to the fishbowl. Those looking in from the outside reach a conclusion and those within just smile. Can they be broken into, yes but mostly from the initiates giving away confidence, not from an outsider looking in.

[David19]

I suppose there are no rules, but I find it difficult to see how there can actually be a functioning Santeria forum. I suppose people could share anecdotes about how the Orisha have helped them in their lives, but I don't see why you need a special forum for that. One could just discuss that in the Gods and Goddesses forum.

If you want a book on how Orisha traditions are practiced in Africa, then I strongly recommend a Book called Dinlogun by Chief Kola Abiola.
There is also a book called Ifa-a complete divination by Ayo Salami.
These religions are so heavily based on divination that the best way to study them is to study the divination process. Dinlogun is the divination process of the Orisha traditions while Ifa is the divination process of . . . Ifa tradition. Each divination system is full of the lore and procedures of the religion as a whole. They are based on a literature that is transmitted orally. This literature is the best way to learn about the religion. It contains the poetry, the songs, the rituals, the stories, the medicines, the philosophy etc.

Let's wait and see if Ochareo comes back. If he doesn't I am happy to discuss aspects of the religion with people that may be interested to the best of my ability. However I must stress that I am very much a student. Even though it is a life long never ending study for everyone, masters included.

Check these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifá
http://ilarioba.tripod.com/media/Fembabalawo.htm This one is interesting because it demonstrates why the tradition, after a period of opening up to researcher, closed up again. This woman was a fake and I know that cos she claimed that my godfather was one of the people who initiated her to Odu and when I asked him he denied and said that he' d specifically told her that it would be impossible.

http://www.us-organization.org/position/documents/EthicalInsightsfromOduIfa.pdf

http://www.palo.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=2

http://ayodele_falade.tripod.com/id26.html
http://ayodele_falade.tripod.com/id6.html

Thanks for the books and links.

[David19]

You are welcome :-) and thanks for the links! I noticed on the other threads that you asked about the Idiots Guide to Voodoo. It is a pretty good resource book to understand the basics. People underestimate the Idiots Guide books but many are helpful.

I liked the Idiots Guide to Voodoo, although I want to reread it again (I got it from the library), as I found it quite informative.